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Well I had a new update and was going to add it to an existing thread or just post a new one in daily grind or something - but though maybe I'd try it blog style ala MT bucket courier and slow ride.

I came to the end of my tires this weekend. They were shot - all almost to wear bars, getting a bit dry rotted and horrible in the rain. There wasn't the budget yet for new tires, but I needed to do something. Then I remembered that BMW and Chevy have the same wheel bolt pattern :D, so I did a little more research and discovered that my stock tire size of 235/75r15 when you do a +2 sizing comes out to be a 235/65r17 - the same size as the first generation BMW X5. I think I'm onto something here....

So after a little digging around the shop I came across a set of 17" wheels from a winter and tire set for a BMW 5 series that were left in the shop after a customer traded the car in last year. I scavenged a bit more and found a set of Michelin cross terrain tires from an X5 that was traded in and turned into a certified CPO used car. The tires are in great shape, but were 1mm to thin on tread to make the cut for CPO - so the X5 got new tires and I got these off of the scrap heap.

Mounted and balanced them, bolted them up and took them for a spin. The only issue I discovered was that BMW wheels have about 10mm more positive offset than the Chevy wheels and on VERY hard bumps or corners the tires rub on the fender edges. An easy fix for me :)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/500/medium/IMG00167-20090729-1727.jpg

I took the tool we have in the shop for the race cars that rolls the lip of the fender up and into the outside edge of the sheet metal - in essence it folds the lip of the fender flat and then pushes the whole fender edge of the wheel opening out like a flare. Then I adjusted the torsion bars in the fron to raise it back up 1", after I lowered it 2" early in my MPG modding quest.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/500/medium/IMG00168-20090729-1811.jpg

So here it sits all ready to roll. I have no idea what this is going to do to my MPG but it didn't cost me a dime and I can always put it back when I can budget for new 15" tires on the stock wheels.

Let me know what you all think.

Good fix for a potential immediate risk. As you mentioned, if it hits you too hard, you can always go back. You might check Craigslist for your area also. I've got some good deals there before and I see take offs quite often.

Cool, another ride blog! glad I inspired you :D
it will be interesting seeing all the things you do to this beast to get better FE
but one thing, it is not officially an FSP unless you get under 20 mpg! :p

Good fix for a potential immediate risk. As you mentioned, if it hits you too hard, you can always go back. You might check Craigslist for your area also. I've got some good deals there before and I see take offs quite often.

Thanks. It was just one of those half baked ideas getting thrown around that actually worked out. I've been keeping an eye on craigs, ebay and even a few friends at other shops - but it seems if the right size comes along it's usually in about as bad of shape as what I was trying to get rid of myself.

Cool, another ride blog! glad I inspired you :D
it will be interesting seeing all the things you do to this beast to get better FE
but one thing, it is not officially an FSP unless you get under 20 mpg! :p

You bet, thanks for the idea. I think the mods are pretty much done with the exception of maybe completing an underbody cover to fill the gaps in what I've done already.

Yea, I suppose I can stop calling it a FSP now:woot: - if the new tire and wheel setup doesn't hit me too hard I might break 25mpg this tank, we'll see.

Other than that I have a bunch more maintinence coming up:

1. oil and filter change - about 1000 miles to go on this, though I would try some mobil1 in 0w30 and see if it makes a difference vs my regular royal purple 5w30.
2. Upper front control arm bushings - getting pretty loose and noisy, not looking forward to doing these as they basically are frozen in place. But I get to do another alignment :D
3. remote oil filter lines - been leaking a bit and starting to gain momentum, not a bad job just messy.
4. front brakes - probably have until the spring for these. I'm going all out for this - new calipers, pads, rotors and lines(if the aren't siezed). Nothing like fresh brakes to make me feel safe on the road.

Well, another week and another tank added to the mileage log.

While I didn't break 25mpg avg for the tank, I did get 24.733 WITH the new wheels and tires! So I didn't take a hit for the wheel/tire setup - even though they were much heavier and my sidewall max pressure is only 35 psi :(

In addition to that good news, even though I didn;t break 25mpg, it was enough to bring my epa combined avg to 125.08%, so I got my EXPERT status on the mileage log :D

pretty nice truck...what year is that?

pretty nice truck...what year is that?

It's a 1997 Blazer 4.3l v6, AT, 4 door, 4x4, with about 159,000 miles on it now.

Alright, time for another entry into the blog.

First and most importantly - - - - I GOT AN SG II:woot:
Many thanks to msirach and Wayne who coordinated the whole deal. I can't wait to get a few tanks in with it and really start to learn my truck and its engine with real time data.

Next, I got another set of tires. I know I just put the Michelin Cross Terrains a week or so ago, but I couldn't wait to get them off today when another BMW X5 was traded in and went through the CPO certification process. The tires on it missed the minimum tread depth by 1mm, but this time I snagged a great set of Michelin MXV4s:D They still have 3mm of tread left before they hit the wear bars, so they should be more than fine for the rest of the summer and fall. The MXV4s have the advantage of much better lrr and I now have a sidewall max psi of 51 vs the 35 of the cross terrains. When the snow hits in November or so, I'll put the cross terrains back on as they look like they would be much better in the snow anyway.

That's all for now - just looking forward to the next few weeks/tanks to see what difference the SG and the MXV4s make.

sweet! I remember last year when I got my sg, my mpg went up by 2 or 3 mpg on my old minivan! have fun :)

Between the Michelin MXV4's and the SGII, I think you will top 30mpg very soon!

sweet! I remember last year when I got my sg, my mpg went up by 2 or 3 mpg on my old minivan! have fun :)

Between the Michelin MXV4's and the SGII, I think you will top 30mpg very soon!

Thanks guys! I am hoping for the 2 or 3 mpg improvement, I'm not as optimistic about a 30 mpg avg tank - that would be incredible:eek:

The Mxv4s are nice and smooth - I can notice the difference in rolling resistance between them and the Michelin cross terrains and certainly a huge change from the old goodyear wranglers that were on it originally, we'll see what they do for mileage. I almost guilty:o, I get the best part of the tire wear - less tread = less weight, lots of heat cycles so the rubber compound is harder and more stable, and so on .......

Anyway I did my first complete commute with the sg installed. I switched a couple of the x gauges around from what Wayne selected initially. One that I chose to watch was the fuel consumption in Gal per hour. Holy cow, I had no idea how bad this thing was just at idle - the picture speaks for itself

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/500/IMG00194-20090807-1750.jpg

The blazer is sucking down 0.45 gal per hour AT IDLE!:eek: I may have to reconsider my threshold for fasing at stoplights and do it more often. But I have concerns about the effects on the life expectancy of the starter - and it's located in such a horrible spot that I REALLY don't want to have to replace it EVER!

---back to the regularly scheduled show

But I have concerns about the effects on the life expectancy of the starter - and it's located in such a horrible spot that I REALLY don't want to have to replace it EVER!



I used to have concerns with starter wear, but i decided, if it does fry, I would rather give my $$ to get a new starter, than $$ to opec, etc, for all the undeeded fuel burned while idleing, so fas away! :)

As long as it cranks over quickly when warm, I wouldn't worry about it. As I understand it the starter goes bad when it overheats -- which it doesn't unless it has long cranking sessions.

Personally, I crank my Elantra up via key way the heck more than the average person and I'm still on my original starter at over 100K miles. I've done this since I bought it with only 17mi on the clock.

Well, it's not so much the cost of a new starter ($130.00 from autozone), it's the time and effort to replace it that I want to avoid. The Chilton labor guide gives 4.7 hours of labor to change it, so you know that has to really be a s.o.b. job to do if it takes that long for a lousy starter. I believe it too , you can barely see it from underneath on the car hoist - and not at all from above.

I'm still going to do a bit more fas, but probably no where near what the rest of you do.

...I had no idea how bad this thing was just at idle - the picture speaks for itself

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/500/IMG00194-20090807-1750.jpg

The blazer is sucking down 0.45 gal per hour AT IDLE!:eek:

Hey that picture looks familiar. Mine idles at about the same for the dakota 3.9L V6. That is why I try not to let it idle. If I could hook up a quick and easy FAS switch that would not involve splicing anything I would consider installing one, because the key off and on is driving me nutz with the lag in the restart on the SG.

I am not sure what is going on but recently the SG is just going to sleep after restarting at a light. The light turns, I crack over, and let go. it will restart and then sometimes just go to sleep, loosing another 7 seconds of data. I have had it do this on occasion just driving along in NICE-on and then re-engauge and it will go to sleep.

Has anyone else had this issue? I have it set to normal for the sampling rate.

Hey that picture looks familiar. Mine idles at about the same for the dakota 3.9L V6. That is why I try not to let it idle. If I could hook up a quick and easy FAS switch that would not involve splicing anything I would consider installing one, because the key off and on is driving me nutz with the lag in the restart on the SG.

I am not sure what is going on but recently the SG is just going to sleep after restarting at a light. The light turns, I crack over, and let go. it will restart and then sometimes just go to sleep, loosing another 7 seconds of data. I have had it do this on occasion just driving along in NICE-on and then re-engauge and it will go to sleep.

Has anyone else had this issue? I have it set to normal for the sampling rate.

Put your fuel type setting to "hybrid" and it should clear up that problem.

Put your fuel type setting to "hybrid" and it should clear up that problem.

it is set to that. :confused:

Nice Truck. Probably some in that year/model were turned in as clunkers--maybe you have an opportunity to troll the clunker lots for some cheap upgrade swaps? I guess it would be quite a task to pull a starter though.

You may be able to lengthen your starter's life a hair by turning your ignition to run for second or two before you start it in the morning. It seems like my engines fire with less turning over when I do this--maybe because fuel pressure is already up?

I think if we placed a guage in every vehicle that showed poeple that acutal fuel usage like GPH, it would cause most to look at how they drive differently. Getting X amount of miles to the gal and a guess gauge just isn't showing people how much gas they use. When you see cold hard numbers of 0.45 GPH or 0.25 GPH in your face you can see how much gas you would use in 1 hour if you kept it where it is. SUV/FSP at speed will be sucking down 3-5 GPH, now that will slap you in the face.

The blazer is sucking down 0.45 gal per hour AT IDLE!

I know gas is worse than diesel here, but I'm not entirely sure why. Is it all from pumping losses and the closed throttle?

For reference, mine idles at maybe .25-.3 gph when warmed up. Cold starts might be more like .7 gph in decent weather, and I've seen as high as 2.4gph when it was cold-soaked at -2F. Was the above reading when warmed up?

It takes a lot of energy + fuel to warm up an engine. I calculated some rough estimates once - just to bring my engine, oil, and coolant up from room temp to operating temp requires the energy content of about .1 gal of diesel. Throw in the rest of the driveline components and energy lost out the tailpipe, and it takes even more energy. That's why short trips are so bad and block heaters are so good.

Jason:

It should be quite simple to hook up a Fas switch to your dakota. I did a write-up which is somewhat lengthy, however it is mostly precaution.

If you have the factory manual, it should be a ten minute job.

That reminds me I need to get a Repair Manual for my Rav4.
Are they usually well illustrated?
(Visual Person here)

Well it took quite a while to get through this tank, almost a week and a half. I had quite a few overnight test drives of customer cars to verify issues or confirm completed repairs. This was my first tank with the sg and my mpg fell like a rock! I'm down over 2.5 mpg for the tank! :eyebrow:

I don't know if I was just too busy learning and playing with it or what. :confused:

Anyway, not much else going on except that some of my fe loss may be due to the right front wheel bearing I just started to hear making some noise....... oh the joy of driving a high mileage vehicle - the only stuff that isn't broken or worn out is what I've just replaced! But I'm about to cross the 160,000 mile mark (10,000 since I bought it in December 08), and although I've had to do allot of repairs - it's been pretty good considering the mechanical shape it was in when I bought it.

BTW, if you want to see what's happening to the cash for clunkers trade ins - search 'clunker engine' on you tube - there is a great one of a Volvo S80 that goes for almost 10 minutes at redline with an oilpan full of sodium silicate, sad too see it go but a great example of just how damn tough these cars are - I do miss working on them.

Hopefully the next tank will be back on track - I'm starting learn the sg, so hopefully it will be less of a novelty soon

I saw this on my commute home Friday - anybody want to guess what kind of mpg he was getting with this set up? I wonder which is worse, the 45 foot Prevost RV or the Lincoln LT riding on the trailer?:D

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/500/medium/IMG00209-20090813-1854.jpg

Nervousmini,

I sympathize: 98 Suburban 210,130 miles, bought at 195,000.
1) Radiator=$155
2)Waterpump=$60
3)Belt tensioner=$37
4) Brake booster=$135
5) Shocks =$210
6) Intake manifold gasket-FREAKIN' nightmare because I farmed the work out,and had to redo it,and fix all the screw ups=$600
7)All the weatherstripping needs to be replaced.I have aluminum tape over the barn door seams to keep water from pouring in. Weatherstripping is very expensive-maybe $800 for entire vehicle-roughly what it is worth!
8) Timing cover=$40
9)New sprockets and timing chain=$60

Despite the above it has been a reliable vehicle getting surprisingly good mpg-considering what it is.

Yes, I sympathize.

Good luck,
Charlie

phoebeisis -

I've been avoiding this, but since you brought it up I guess it's time to tally up the damage.

Blazer - bought for $1250
Replaced motor $1800
replaced fuel pump $290
replaced idler arm $28
sway bar bushings $16
1 ball joint $16
pittman arm $37
2 oil changes (royal purple) $60
used Dinan air intake and filter $0
used BMW wheels and tires $0

Total spent $3497

Not as bad as I though it would be, but I really didn't plan on replacing the motor after only having the car for 5 days :(

Still have a few things looming on the repair horizon to consider... but at least with getting the freebee on the wheels and tires I can stop budgeting for new tires. :D

Front brakes (pads, rotors and calipers) $180
Right front wheel bearing $130
Front control arm bushings $60
Oil change (mobil 1 0-30w) $30

Total upcoming $400

n Yeah, that motor was a killer.On the bright side GM parts are cheap.I can get a NEW-not rebuilt, new- Goodwrench 5.7 delivered to my curb for $2350-not bad for a new motor.

I paid $2950+$350 TTL-$3300. Not counting oil changes I guess I'm at about $4700-not too bad.
I did discover that AutoZone' cheapest brake pads-about $17-work great-well as great as that years Suburban can work. Cheap pads might wear faster and produce more dust, but so what!!

Your $3500 isn't bad at all for a running vehicle with a new motor. The cheapest new vehicle is probably $13000, and it would be a small car-with a $300/month note for 4-5 years.
No way could I affor-new- something as versatile and comfortable as the Suburban-they cost $45,000-$800/mo note!!
If I can get 30,000 more miles-5 years or so- out of this I'll be happy. I might-someday- get a new engine-maybe $3000 with gaskets/fluids etc-still way ahead of new.

Charlie

PS-Forgot the $80 battery. I'm hoping to average under $1000/yr for parts maintenance.

No it hasn't been to bad for overall costs - as long as there are no more surprises :eyebrow:

I could have tried for a new car, but I got what I really needed - 4 doors and 4 wheel drive. I got stuck a few times last year in the snow trying to get places that I really did need to get to quickly and I expect the same scenarios this winter as well. The BMW 740 it replaced was much nicer but didn't cut it when the chips fell - so out it went. The blazer has been my first personal domestic vehicle, and has been about what I expected so far.

I hope to hang on to it for at least 3 to 5 years and then maybe look for something like a used Ford escape with the 4 cyl engine and 4wd as a more fe replacement. Or whatever else might be a good buy at the time.

speaking of trade ins------- snapped a pic of this one before it hit the transport truck and off to the auction....maybe I should have gone for it :D

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/500/medium/Photo-0014_2_.jpg

An Impala or some Dodge with Lambo doors??$1500 car with $2000 doors-makes sense!!

I lucked out with this FSP-I expected to average maybe 13-14 mpg-my overall average is more like 18.5 or so.It also has always gotten me home-a big plus with a 12 yo car with 200,000+ miles.

Luck
Charlie
PS Not that you would be foolish enough to do this, but folks commonly put 5.7's in S-10's and Astro vans-probably could do the same with the Blazer if you were that foolish.Apparently there isn't any mpg penalty.

Well it took nearly 2 weeks to get through the last tank, more test drives and had a few days off from work to help stretch the tank.

My tank avg MPG is still down @ 22.499 from my best of almost 25 a few tanks ago. :( What gives, is winter blend already in the pumps, it's been a bit cooler and raining for the last month or so and my right front wheel bearing still needs to be replaced - could I have already peaked? I was really hoping to get a 25 or higher mpg tank before the end of the year.

I been using the sg a little more but just for the lod function to help better maintain dwl parts of my drive, it seems to help a bit - but I'm not seeing it @ the end of the tank yet. But I'm definately starting to get the feel of what it can do, I just have to figure out my target numbers to make the most of it. I have also been able to see dfco happen on the truck a few times - sweet :D

nervousmini.

Hey, 22 +mpg in a Blazer is better than 99.99% of most Blazer drivers-heck maybe better than 99.999. Blazers aren't noted for great FE for some reason-not sure why since they have a reasonably efficient motor/trans and they are not too heavy-maybe 4000 lbs?

Have you guys in the upper midwest goten some of this colder than average weather I've been hearing about? If so maybe you are getting some winter type gas, or maybe just more ethanol-the corn/ ethanol producers have plenty of pull in your area maybe they are requiring more ethanol in the fuel so Archer/Daniels/midland has a better 3 quarter?

dfco -This fuel cutoff I keep hearing about.The vehicle literally uses ZERO fuel when you lift off throttle? The SG shows 0.0 ??? Could my 1998 5.7 Suburban be doing this?? I spend waaaaay too much time looking at the SG, but it never reads 0.0 in the Suburban. I'm constantly motor on pulsing and gliding in D, but it never reads 0.0 gph?

Will my 2005 vintage SG not read this, or will my Suburban not do the FC? Or is there some specific sequence of "things" I need to do to get it to shut the fuel off?? My gliding mpg is good-35-40 mpg depending on the speed, but it isn't infinite like it would be with zero flow.

What am I missing here?
Charlie

Don't get me wrong I'm not complaining about 22mpg, I just have my sights set always higher than where I am at.

I'm not sure about the fuel - I have be meaning to start grabbing a small sample so I could check the alcohol content of each tank and see if I am getting more/less than to E10 the pumps are labeled at and then see how that relates to the mpg of the tank.

When my truck goes into dfco it is usually at 45 + mpg, going downhill (moderate grade), and no throttle for about 5 seconds. I can see it happen when lod = 1, mpg = 99, ign = -10. It lasts for as long as I can keep my foot of the gas pedal. I'm not seeing o gph either @ dfco it's around 0.60 gph.

I'm not sure the requirements for your 'burban, it seems to differ from vehicle to vehicle - but my guess is that your speed isn't high enough to start the sequence.

Hope this helps.

Thanks-got it.I don't use the SG on the long trips when I'm at higher speeds and going downhill.I figure I'm likely to get in a wreck, so I set the CC to 65-68 and point it.It gets 21 mpg on long-3000 mile-interstate trips.GM certainly did something right with their small blocks.

I'll check for DFCO next time on on the interstate doing 60 or so.

Thanks
Charlie

when you are coasting to a stop, instead of using your brakes, shift into low and let the engine do the braking, if you get the rpms up over 1700 or so you should get 9999 on the sg and 0.0gph if you have it. I just found out my 91 mirage has it with my mpguino

MT Bucket,

So the electronic control senses engine braking-high rpms, no throttle- and cuts the fuel off so as to increase braking?
Thanks
Charlie

MT Bucket,

So the electronic control senses engine braking-high rpms, no throttle- and cuts the fuel off so as to increase braking?
Thanks
Charlie

I dunno how it works, but it does :) I never even knew about it until I found this forum! :)

Well, it took a while again to burn through another tank - allot of test drives again helped to stretch out my fuel expenses. ;)

Now for the bad news.....

My last tank was only good for 21.349 mpg, and yea I know thats great for what I'm driving - but I'm driving my but off and my fe is heading down the tubes! :( There are a few repairs that still need to be done that are probably bringing my avg down, but I was so close to a 25 mpg tank.

Anyway, I have started to take fuel samples from each tank refueling to check for alcohol/water levels to see what I'm actually getting from some of the stations I usually go to. The first sample was not encouraging in the least. What I though was one of my "good" sources is selling garbage. I just got myself a nice fresh tank of 17% alcohol/water :mad:

Soooo, that will be the last time I use that station. There are others of that brand in my area, so I can see if it is that station or the brand as a whole that is killing my mileage.

Wayne - btw, in case you read this post - the above mentioned station is right down the road from you, just north of Fat Man Inn on 41 northbound, you may want to skip that gas station. Or anyone else in the area that recognized where I'm talking about.

The only other news I have is that among the C4C vehicles that we took in on trade happened to be a few blazers/s10 trucks - but I was specifically told to keep my ever scavenging/plundering paws off of them :( . It seems that they really do know me that well :D

17% !!!! What is it supposed to be-no more than 10% ??
Well, that certainly explains your mpg drop.
Charlie
PS-They won't even let you "borrow" a compressor or some other minor item??

Well, ....
....

The only other news I have is that among the C4C vehicles that we took in on trade happened to be a few blazers/s10 trucks - but I was specifically told to keep my ever scavenging/plundering paws off of them :( . It seems that they really do know me that well :D

B*******, it sounds like they're holding out on you. Maybe the service department needs to share more donuts with sales.:p

17% !!!! What is it supposed to be-no more than 10% ??
Well, that certainly explains your mpg drop.
Charlie
PS-They won't even let you "borrow" a compressor or some other minor item??

Yeah, it really bites - but you would be surprised at the number of cars that come in with drivability issues that are directly fuel quality related - 15%, 20% + is very common. Though I have seen operator error a few times with E85 filled tanks, not sure how you make that one without really trying :eek:

B*******, it sounds like they're holding out on you. Maybe the service department needs to share more donuts with sales.:p

Nope, no borrowing/swapping/plundering. I have a pretty good history of that sort of thing (with permission of management), I think that they are just saying NO to everyone. The idea being to avoid a small scale pick-n-pull in the back parking lot, with me as the used car parts version of Dr. Evil :D:D:D

Still, it seems such a waste - not just for me alone. Some of the cars/trucks have new or nearly new tires and such. But I think that they have made a group deal for all c4c vehicles with one salvage yard, and surely they are going to want the good stuff like that to help offset the fact they can't sell any engines.

Well it's been a while and seems time for a bit of an update.

The blazer has been pressed into duty for my new part time job at night................ Pizza Delivery. That's right Dale, there's another hypermiler dwb - Driving With Breadsticks :D

Anyway it wasn't my first choice, especially with my delivery vehicle - but part time gigs have been real tough to come by, so when this one popped up I grabbed it. The unfortunate side effect has been my hard earned Expert rating has been quickly reduce back to Skilled. Along with my avg tank going from 22mpg range down to 19mpg :ccry:

I have been setting aside the tips into a stash to hopefully fund another car for daily driving and deliveries and save the Blazer for bad weather duty in the coming winter. I have lines on 2 cars so let me know what you all think.

1. 1999 dodge neon r/t coupe. 200,000 miles, 1 owner - but gave to son who (ab)used it for about a year. Body good - little rust, needs clutch (it's still got the original!), tires, front brakes with calipers (siezed from sitting outside) $1000 plus repairs. epa rated 24 city 36 hwy

2. 1996 Saturn sl sedan. 140,000 miles, ? owners, looks like hell - saturns rust!?!, fresh 5 spd manual trans and clutch, needs catalytic converter - missing:mad:, right ball joint and tires. $400 plus repairs. 22 city 32 hwy

The cool thing about the saturn is the tires. If you have followed this thread you will know that I needed tire for the Blazer and discovered that I could make a BMW wheel and tire mix work........ Well I discovered the same for the saturn. MINI Cooper bolt patter = 4=100mm, Saturn bolt pattern = 4x100mm! The bolt pattern is the same the offset is close enough and if I do a +1 tire it comes out to 175/65r15, the same as MINI! So after some of my infamous scavenging I have come up with a set of 15" MINI wheels and tires (Fresh Continental CH95s no less!)

The Neon needs more substantial work, but looks better and would probably be worth more when finished. The saturn is ugly as heck - a complete pos beater and even when fixed up not worth much, but probably more reliable?

Any thoughts.

Man, that's a lot of miles on either one!! :eek:

The Neon seems like a better known quantity with less abuse?

I can think of 600 good reasons to prefer the Saturn. The adolescent driver of the Neon would also be a source of concern in terms of beating up the tranny and suspension beyond just needing a clutch. Would the cat probably eat up most of the Saturn's cost advantage even factoring in the tires and the clutch?

I would lean toward the Saturn if it is cheaper after factoring in the cost of repairs, because it is likely to be more reliable since it has fewer miles and may be less mechanically abused.
The Saturn also is fairly easy to work on--just remember to check the oil.

Neither car sounds like a good "investment" car, so I wouldn't fret much about resale.

Here is a 98 GTI for $1K (http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4574313) with 122,000 miles on the internet near me whose only real problems appear to be cosmetic sheet metal damage from being backed into and a bad parking brake. Unfortunately my wife says I already have too many toys :(.

I can think of 600 good reasons to prefer the Saturn. The adolescent driver of the Neon would also be a source of concern in terms of beating up the tranny and suspension beyond just needing a clutch. Would the cat probably eat up most of the Saturn's cost advantage even factoring in the tires and the clutch?

I would lean toward the Saturn if it is cheaper after factoring in the cost of repairs, because it is likely to be more reliable since it has fewer miles and may be less mechanically abused.
The Saturn also is fairly easy to work on--just remember to check the oil.

Neither car sounds like a good "investment" car, so I wouldn't fret much about resale.

Here is a 98 GTI for $1K (http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4574313) with 122,000 miles on the internet near me whose only real problems appear to be cosmetic sheet metal damage from being backed into and a bad parking brake. Unfortunately my wife says I already have too many toys :(.

Well I know the current owner of the saturn and it's no surprise he had to replace the transmission.:eyebrow: He also 'removed' the converter, since he melted it down trying to race the car and had altered the afm to run rich. I do have a catalyst from an old car the was correctly altered for race only duty and the catalyst was removed - all I would need is some adapter pipe connectors and a hour with the mig welder.

They are both probably a crapshoot for reliability - neither has lived an easy life. I was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts as far as hm potential. I am leaning towords the saturn as the initial investment is much less.

Well, it's time for an update for the blazer blog. The blazer is gone! :woot: Things have changed for me and I no longer need the 4X4 truck, thanks goodness. So for a bit of a closing post I thought I'd put out a few bits of data.

total miles driven - 12394.3 miles
total % of combined epa - 113.9%
total avg mpg - 19.933 mpg
best tank mpg - 24.733 mpg
best miles in 1 tank - 400.4 miles
worst tank mpg - 15.123 mpg

:flag: fuel saved by hypermiling - 66.71 gallons and money saved by hypermiling - $183.62 :flag:

The numbers should have been so much better than they were, but once I started delivering pizzas the mpg just went to heck! I want to thank the whole cleanmpg community for all of your help and patience while I asked all of my newbie questions and tried to learn the techniques that worked, on a vehicle that is decidedly not fuel efficient.

Now in turning a new vehicle page in life I will be updating in my new vehicle thread - stay tuned, I have a really good feeling on what I can get out of this car. :D

Hi Nervousmini:

___Just got around to reading this one… You know that station used to be a Citgo and they had a problem about 2 or 3-years ago during a heavy rainstorm. There tanks were loaded with water and there was Big-rigs to compacts stranded along the side of 41 from about half mile away to as many as 3-miles away all stuck with none-running engines. The station kept selling fuel even after they were told by screaming customers that something was wrong with their fuel! It took a Lake Country Sheriff to go in there and force them to shut down the pumps after about two hours of that nonsense. We have a thread about it around here somewhere and no, I will never visit that station ;)

___What time of day are you driving Rt. 41 to work anyway? Although the lights can be a SOIB, I have found them to offer excellent opportunities for some natural P&G via NICE-On’s and of course full on with FAS’s when and where appropriate. If you are stuck in the Abbott Rush stop and crawl, you are screwed unless driving a Prius, TCH, FEH or Fusion Hybrid.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

It's still a CITGO statio, but it's remodeled. I remember seeing the old in ground storage tanks being dug up - so I don't think it's the same problem. I did an alcohol level test on that tank and I think it was aroung 17% if I remember right. Anyway - I won't be going there anyomre either.

Well I have a new job and a new commute to go with it. I still use 41 but I get off on 120 west and head to barrington. Whew it's a haul. I'm still playing with google and trying to find a good route but at least I have a better car now for the drive!

Congrats on losing the fsp! good luck with your new vehicle, what are you getting?

He has moved into the world of BMW! (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28178)

Thanks guys! I'm going to end this thread and continue it all on the new one - thanks for the link Mike!

Mike BTW - I really have moved into the world of BMW, I went back to being a BMW service technician!