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Yeah,,, While I'm still intrested in a Jetta TDI for a daily grind car. I've still wanted to purchase my last sports car.

I've been waiting for the BMW dealers to get real on a 135I, but I've backed away from that because I can't wear a helmet and track it. So that has left the 335I and the M3. Neither of which they want to move on concerning price at all. Be it a ordered car or dealer stock. So BMW has been kicked under the bus so to speak.

Kind of depressed over the BMW mess. I've been looking elsewhere. After a few months of test driving. The 09 2LT Vette seems to be the best deal out there. But none of the government motors dealers want to deal either. My local dealer had a Red 2LT with a AT in it that they ended up giving away. But why would anybody buy a Vette with a AT,,,, gag!!!!! I could have got it for $37k OTD.

I had a dealer call me today claiming to have a 09 white 2LT in stock and a surprise I could drive. The white Vette ended up being a 4LT loaded to the gills and they were ready to knock $2k off of it. I was damn mad! The other car was a limited edition something in silver with skulls on it. It did have the z51 pack. Which has more coolers, grey wheels and summer tires. Puls the god awful stripes and skull stickers on it. With speacial stitching on the seat. $55k. Then they tried to belittle me. Saying how they have went out of there way for me,,, yad yad yad. I told them up front! I gave you my card and numbers with the spec I demand on the car in writing and also I would not pay a freaking dime over invoice for the car including dest. and doc. fee's. You want to sell a car meet this spec and I will have the money in there hands within a hour, sign the sales agreement and leave a $500 deposit on the car while I secure the funds.

Then the SOB's went and knocked the HCHII the wife and I were driving. I polity shared with them. It's current tank is at 56 mpg, its last tank came in at 57 mpg, its best tank was 62 mpg and worse was 48 mpg. GM builds nothing that can touch it mpg wise! and I got it for $5k off MSRP. The wife and I walked out to get in the HCHII and the SM tried to fake a flip off on me. I walked back to the limited edition Vette and I proceeded to rip the vinyl strip off the hood that cost $5k. Then asked them if they wanted to continue?

I was so pissed off. Here as a tax payer you have a job because of me. I don't wish to be lied to. Even with the junkers for cash your lot is empty and you want to screw with me! I was dumb founded!

GM needs to get rid of more of there dealers!

Just have to find the right dealer and car. All I want is my last fun car!

Have you looked at the Miata :Banane03: Hal

Get a used Ford Mustang GT500 if your going American performance. They can be had for less than 50k and they didn't steal our money.

Ever thought of doing the luxury performance rentals? About $99 for a Smart to $25k a day for a Bugatti Veyron, your choice of some fantastic cars

Noticed the Prius is a $50 per mile charge (typo) http://www.bhrentacar.com/searchvehicleresult.htm click the Continue button to load prices and inventory. :D - Dale

There is a preowned 'vette sitting in my parking spot at work.

I think they want to see if I'll sell it just to get my spot back, answer: yes!

If you want me to find out more about this FSP let me know.

Kacey would you sell your hypermiling soul for a parking space? I'm just kidding. You should "test drive it" and put in the SM's spot while he's at lunch. :D - Dale

He'd know who did it, they've been parking this beast across 2 spots since it arrived, we've had 'vettes before none got this treatment, I haven't the foggiest what's so special about this one.

We can't forget that when the FSP isn't in my spot, I have the most premo spot of any employee even the GM.

I will never understand the appeal of the vette. Especially their dealers, owners, clubs etc. It seems everyone related to them has a "better than you" attitude. What always cracks me up about them to is that they seem to be the only car that people leave bone stock and place them in parades, car shows etc. Anyone can buy something off the lot... who wants to be the same as everyone else?

raveneon

The appeal is Huge performance for moderate price $50,000. I don't follow Corvettes very closely anymore, but I think the "base" model will do 190+ mph and 4.2 0-60 mph with a high 12 quarter mile.It probably cost > $100,000 to get that performance in a Porche etc.

Used ones 7-8 years old-with nearly that performance-can be had for $15000.

They are also cheap to repair-can't say that about any Euro performance car.

True many kinda' oldish middle aged folks-men and women- buy one and keep it dead stock, since it is more a dream car than a real car to them.(occasionally thinking it will be worth 3X as much in 30 years)

However, LOTS of folks modify them-there is a HUGE performance aftermarket for Corvettes.

Lotta bang for the buck- and reasonable FE considering.. There is also the American Iron aspect-though it has plenty of "plastic" fiber glass, carbon fiber springs and some of the motors have some titanium in them,I think.
Charlie

raveneon,
I understand it quite well because I have gone through it, maybe a little early.

Yes, some of it is status.
Some of it is just a grasp for youth.
For some of us, it's not really a new car, but a new toy. A sunday driver kind of thing.
Some of it has to do with where and when we grew up.
I always had cars that got me from point A to point B, but wanted to do that with just a bit of style now.
I went through it early so it would be paid for by the time I retire.

I looked at the Vette, but any vehicle (especially a sports car) that charges extra for a manual transmission is automatically excluded.

Mine was a 2005 Crossfire Roadster, but I changed my mind and traded that in so I could get the Ram and the boat.

Corvette is a good choice for all the reasons phoebeisis listed. Easy to find parts (stock and modified), American made, and inexpensive compared to the competition.

I would love to have a '68 Vette in stock condition.

I did the Firebird version of that when I was a kid - 500+++ HP, a fuel injected 383, and a doug nash 5 spd tranny. I wish I would have done a better job of documenting my results, but even then, I was an efficiency geek. I think the highway FE was pretty close to 25 MPG at steady state (and relatively high speeds). Unfortunately, the project highlighted an Achilles heel that Governmental Motors still has - vehicle durability. Just to be clear, I am not referring to the systems that were stressed by the increase in engine torque output. I am referring to general age related (it was a 10 year old vehicle) failures in nearly every vehicle system. Even if I worked for a different company, I could not see myself taking that kind of monetary risk again ...

Thanks for the input but I believe it's just something you either get or don't. I understand wanting a sports car. My awd talon is pushing 450 at the crank on race gas. If you have to build big iron american muscle then why not build a firebird or mustang for alot less money than a vette?
I did not know that vette's were cheap to fix or that many people modded them. I've ran against many vette's at the strip and not one of them has hit 11s yet there are a plethora of mustangs and camaro's in the 10's or better. I guess it's all in what you want and/or perceive but in my mind a vette will never be a porsche or lamborghini. If I had that 50k to blow the vette wouldn't even be on my shopping list.

Ravenoen,

You are right, but the Corvette isn't exactly American Iron. It is usually considered too nice a car to turn into a dragster-in the same way that almost no one turns a Porche or a Ferarri into a dragster. The independent rear suspension isn't something drag folks want to deal with either.

Number for number the latest Corvette will run with whichever Porche, or BMW, or MB is 2X more expensive.Acceleration and cornering wise is more or less matches the 2X Porche-and it is cheap to fix and maintain-and it is USA made.

I was never a Corvette fanatic.When I was a kid I wanted an XKE because of its looks, but mainly because I read that it would do 160 mph in stock form (an outright lie of course, but I believed it).

Charlie

I love the classic vettes, but got put off owning a new one when I saw that my insurance rates would be 50% greater than my car payments. Probably less of a problem now as I'm much older, but insurance is something to consider before buying. At the same time I checked into BMW and similar cars and the insurance rates were more on par.

Thanks for the input but I believe it's just something you either get or don't. I understand wanting a sports car. My awd talon is pushing 450 at the crank on race gas. If you have to build big iron american muscle then why not build a firebird or mustang for alot less money than a vette?
I did not know that vette's were cheap to fix or that many people modded them. I've ran against many vette's at the strip and not one of them has hit 11s yet there are a plethora of mustangs and camaro's in the 10's or better. I guess it's all in what you want and/or perceive but in my mind a vette will never be a porsche or lamborghini. If I had that 50k to blow the vette wouldn't even be on my shopping list.

Ive had the flaming turkeys, camaro's, stang's, cuda's, challengers. Had my hemi car.

I really don't care to build cars anymore. And honestly don't want anymore of the classic stuff. Nor do I want a all out drag car. I know of plenty of 600+ hp vette's. Most that own them don't track them much or take them to the drag strip.

I on the other hand would do some track days and hit the strip now and then. :)

Yeah, the classic muscle cars are a rip off now. The vast majority of them are not as quick as a V-6 Accord, have crummy brakes, with a not so great ride.
The whole vintage car scene is hustlers jacking up the prices of POS with overly shiny paint.Cars just didn't shine like that in 1969. Strictly for suckers who have been convinced it is a good investment.

I like the muscle cars, but not the sucker prices. Just another hustle.
I bought my brother's 1971 383 Cuda' in 1975-I loved that guzzler, but it wasn't a great car.Heck,I'm not 100% sure it was quicker than my 98 Suburban but I am sure it got 1/2 the hy. mpg. Still,I loved it.

Charlie

Yeah,,, While I'm still intrested in a Jetta TDI for a daily grind car. I've still wanted to purchase my last sports car.

I've been waiting for the BMW dealers to get real on a 135I, but I've backed away from that because I can't wear a helmet and track it. So that has left the 335I and the M3. Neither of which they want to move on concerning price at all. Be it a ordered car or dealer stock. So BMW has been kicked under the bus so to speak.

Kind of depressed over the BMW mess. I've been looking elsewhere.

Sorry to hear about the discouragement from your Local BMW dealer.

We have 6 new 335i and 2 ex demos at work right now. Also have a couple of Z4Ms on the used side, if you haven't considered one of those you might want to give them a try. I can put you in touch with my buddy in sales if you want - I can assure you no cr@p from this guy.

As far as the M3 goes, we have ZERO in stock any orders placed are about 90 days out. From what I am told this a national issue with BMW. BMW has cut back production of the M line and consequently there is very little inventory to draw from for the dealers that can sell them - so the ones who can't hold them for the people willing to pay the premium and come from an area that doesn't have any.

The vett however, is a tough car to beat for the money. Especially one that is a year or two old, or maybe the owners wifes' demo car. The do make great track cars - for road racing or autocrossing though. Not really the best choice for drag racing- allot of weight to push and the gearing isn't really picked for it either. GM performance has mostly been pushing the vett for road racing for the last couple of decades anyway.

Good luck and I hope you find your toy.

Hmmm. Wants speed, started with BMW, wouldn't mind a TDI, GM dealers won't play ball. Is VW still making the R32?

Sorry to hear about the discouragement from your Local BMW dealer.

We have 6 new 335i and 2 ex demos at work right now. Also have a couple of Z4Ms on the used side, if you haven't considered one of those you might want to give them a try. I can put you in touch with my buddy in sales if you want - I can assure you no cr@p from this guy.

As far as the M3 goes, we have ZERO in stock any orders placed are about 90 days out. From what I am told this a national issue with BMW. BMW has cut back production of the M line and consequently there is very little inventory to draw from for the dealers that can sell them - so the ones who can't hold them for the people willing to pay the premium and come from an area that doesn't have any.

The vett however, is a tough car to beat for the money. Especially one that is a year or two old, or maybe the owners wifes' demo car. The do make great track cars - for road racing or autocrossing though. Not really the best choice for drag racing- allot of weight to push and the gearing isn't really picked for it either. GM performance has mostly been pushing the vett for road racing for the last couple of decades anyway.

Good luck and I hope you find your toy.

I really like the BMW salesman I've worked with. He is one nice guy. When I deceided to not buy BMW I did give him a tip for the time and effort he put into the situation. I really enjoyed Sammy. Great Guy!!!! Best car sales person I've ever worked with. Was snobbed by several other SA's at the dealer at the start. He went as far as to help me get back at the SA's that put the snob on me. We got my credit all lined out and worked up a order for a 135 coupe and a M3 Coupe. All that was needed was hit the enter key, deal done if I agreed to MSRP. <<<< that will never happen. :) Really fried the other SA's. thus why I tipped him when we could not come to agreement. And made sure it was infront of his stuck up coworkers. He worked hard for me, himself and the dealer.

As for the cars themselves. They have stock on just about everything. More 3's than you can shake a stick at, They also have some M3,5,6. And always keep some dressed out 7 series around for people. Lexus is building a new dealership to try and rival the BMW dealer.

I'm not a particular 'vette fan (personally I'd go for an S2000 or M3 if I wanted an ultra high performance vehicle) but I do understand the appeal. It's pretty much THE premier American performance car, and it gives you way more bang for the buck than most of the competition. For a lot of people that's all you need to know.

FWIW, I drove the Cadillac CTS-V when it first came out a few years ago, equipped with the same 6MT and 400hp V-8 found on the top level 'Vette at the time. Holy Jeebus, that thing took off unlike anything I've ever driven. It would slam you into the back of your seat, leaving behind clouds of tire smoke in both 1st and 2nd gear (with the traction control on) and still barking them pretty good going into 3rd. It was so fun to drive that rig it took me days to come down from the adrenaline high. I can only imagine how much faster the 500 pound lighter 'vette must have been (not to mention the current ones with 550hp). Yes, again not my cup of tea but I sure understand why people like them.

I've never experienced driving a vehicle anywhere near that powerful. My wife's uncle did offer to let me drive his Porsche boxster around the block, but I had to decline once I tried the clutch -- way too stiff for my bum leg! I was pretty disappointed. :p

I really like the BMW salesman I've worked with. He is one nice guy. When I deceided to not buy BMW I did give him a tip for the time and effort he put into the situation. I really enjoyed Sammy. Great Guy!!!! Best car sales person I've ever worked with. Was snobbed by several other SA's at the dealer at the start. He went as far as to help me get back at the SA's that put the snob on me. We got my credit all lined out and worked up a order for a 135 coupe and a M3 Coupe. All that was needed was hit the enter key, deal done if I agreed to MSRP. <<<< that will never happen. :) Really fried the other SA's. thus why I tipped him when we could not come to agreement. And made sure it was infront of his stuck up coworkers. He worked hard for me, himself and the dealer.

As for the cars themselves. They have stock on just about everything. More 3's than you can shake a stick at, They also have some M3,5,6. And always keep some dressed out 7 series around for people. Lexus is building a new dealership to try and rival the BMW dealer.

Glad to hear you have a good SA to deal with at least.

I won't pretend to know what is or isn't possible on pricing (Hey I just fix 'em, I don't sell 'em:D) except what I see playing out in front of me:3 5 6 7s and Xs - got lots, 1s and Ms not many. That tells me if I want what they don't have much inventory it's going to cost me. However, I would expect a little bit of a break for a car that is being ordered for me. If they don't have to cover the overhead of it sitting on the lot for 90 or so days and all they are doing is pushing a bit of paper, well........

My last bit of soapbox...

Remember you only have to deal with the sales dept for a day, but the service dept for years. Find a good shop and build a relationship with the person that works on your car - not the one who takes your keys when you drop it off.

The Vettes I'm looking into are just the 430 hp base LS3 rigs. While they do have a top speed of a GM claimed 190 mph. I am not looking into the 500 and 600 hp trimmed cars.

The top of the line CTS-V is a 500 hp plus rig. And yes it will help you blur your vision, displace your inards or pull teeth.

But lets think about this for a sec. The Vette's I'm looking into are epa rated at 26 mpg on the hwy. What do you think I could get out of one with the AC and and the tunes blasting. I'm betting 30+ mpg no problem in a car that will corner like its on rails and stop at a painful rate of deceleration. Yeah it will bletch some smog. But it would never hold a role as a daily grind driver. Well maybe a friday holiday car. :)

Is there a Vette Volt in GM's future? Would be nice cause a Tesla is really a joke in its current config.

I just want my last fun car. Driving the HCHII is a kin to going to the dentist or getting a old man physical and having a doc introduce you to his finger. Not fun at all.

Glad to hear you have a good SA to deal with at least.

I won't pretend to know what is or isn't possible on pricing (Hey I just fix 'em, I don't sell 'em:D) except what I see playing out in front of me:3 5 6 7s and Xs - got lots, 1s and Ms not many. That tells me if I want what they don't have much inventory it's going to cost me. However, I would expect a little bit of a break for a car that is being ordered for me. If they don't have to cover the overhead of it sitting on the lot for 90 or so days and all they are doing is pushing a bit of paper, well........

My last bit of soapbox...

Remember you only have to deal with the sales dept for a day, but the service dept for years. Find a good shop and build a relationship with the person that works on your car - not the one who takes your keys when you drop it off.

I understand you are a tech. And I hope a good one. But nobody works on my cars unless its warranty. So BMW's maint. program while nice on the surface. Over all means nothing to me.

Even with the TDI I like so much A VAG diagnostics program and basic system is a must for me owning a TDI in my mind is $800 bucks right into there hold back,,, seeing I will never pay anything close to MSRP. :)

As for the BMW's I have access to some of there hacked software.

As for the HCHII. If it gets ugly out of warranty. I won't fool with it. I will junk and part it out, sell it or blow it up. It will never see a paid service dept. visit.

BUT!!! I really do like my BMW SA. He is a very good man. And I do pass out his cards. Wonderful man! But not as good as my Honda salesman that pays me a commission for every car he sells off my referral. Wonder how he can do that selling most cars at $388 above invoice. :) <<<< Now thats a dealer. :)

the above invoice part, I too offer a referral fee, it is sharing the wealth (though at my prices I'd pick another word instead of wealth)

I understand you are a tech. And I hope a good one. But nobody works on my cars unless its warranty. So BMW's maint. program while nice on the surface. Over all means nothing to me.

Even with the TDI I like so much A VAG diagnostics program and basic system is a must for me owning a TDI in my mind is $800 bucks right into there hold back,,, seeing I will never pay anything close to MSRP. :)

As for the BMW's I have access to some of there hacked software.

As for the HCHII. If it gets ugly out of warranty. I won't fool with it. I will junk and part it out, sell it or blow it up. It will never see a paid service dept. visit.

BUT!!! I really do like my BMW SA. He is a very good man. And I do pass out his cards. Wonderful man! But not as good as my Honda salesman that pays me a commission for every car he sells off my referral. Wonder how he can do that selling most cars at $388 above invoice. :) <<<< Now thats a dealer. :)

Thanks - I try to do my work with pride. Fair enough about doing your own work - I can certainly respect that, I don't trust anyone else with my vehicles - especially the T&C that hauls the wife and kids around, I protect that van like a hungry guard dog! I've seen some of the aftermarket sw for the BMW systems, not bad for the price at all - and it contains pretty much everything that someone with appropriate skills should be trying on their own.

Good luck on your quest for the last toy - I hope to follow you in a few years, but mine is a 26' sailboat :)