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Honda was the only automaker to offer hybrids with the option of a standard transmission. Last year, the HCH was available only as an automatic. Now the Insight is out of production. The Accord hybrid only comes with an automatic.

There is nothing wrong with 5-speed hybrids. I'd go so far as to wish Honda would find a good way to offer one with an EV mode. The problem is there are too many people that use 5-speed hybrids improperly and it's just too risky from a recall and legal standpoint. People will be irresponsible, but companies often have to take responsibility. For that matter, most us witness on a daily basis people that don't know how to drive - period.

I think it's no suprize the 5-speed Insight has the most battery problems:

It was the 1st hybrid offered in the US so there has been more time for the batteried to fail.
The first year or two, the batteries and software was not as good as in the later models
The Insight is not a pocket rocket! It was intentionally built to have the best fuel economy of any gas-powered mass-produced car to date (and still is). It was not built to go 0 to 60 in 6 seconds.
The high compression ratio and high 5-speed gearing, small battery pack will stress the small battery pack quickly in the hands of a gearhead. An automatic would probably down shift quicker to protect the battery.I'd love for data to be collected on battery failures from worst to best, I'd predict:

5-speed Insights
5-speed hybrid Civics
CVT Insights
.....Toyota Camery

Hi Chuck:

___As many an Insight Autocrosser will tell us, the Insight 5-speed was actually quite adept at scooting when you needed to scoot. Until the HiHy became available to the public, the Insight 5-speed was actually the fastest accelerating hybrid made up to that point in fact!

___The problem as I see it wrt Insight pack issues is Honda relies on the pack (IMA) for its acceleration first and the ICE second whereas Toyota relies on the ICE first with the pack second only when you really nail it. Longevity is obviously increased with Toyota’s philosophy vs. Honda’s. Even today, Honda still has not figured this out.

___And the real problem with all this … I can take the Ranger w/ a stick (24/29) to numbers beyond the Accord w/ Auto (24/34) in many slow speed/heavy traffic/heavy light situations (70 + mpg) because of the stick. As was shown in the Insight Marathon, the ability to manually control the gear engagements at the speeds and rates of our choosing is truly necessary when pushing to the absolute limits and the Honda Auto’s simply will not let you play in that realm nearly as well … The Honda CVT based hybrids can do some damage but without taking manual control, we may never see the absolute limits that a manual based hybrid achieves much easier … Toyota’s HSD is not what I consider a std. Auto given the second MGSet though the PSD as well as being able to steer it into a glide via accelerator pedal so it can achieve near parity to any manual equipped hybrid of similar weight if there was one to compare it to.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

I stand corrected on the acceleration.

I've admitted delight in my past to taking 20-something guys in their pickups that tried blasting past me. Four out of five times they were still in my rear view mirror - some of them probably signaling me. :p

I think Honda can learn from the Insight experience, but I think Wayne has concerns they won't. I hope they do and present a viable alternative to Toyota. I have lots more confidence they could do it than GM and their FCV.

Toyota’s HSD is not what I consider a std. Auto given the second MGSet though the PSD as well as being able to steer it into a glide via accelerator pedal so it can achieve near parity to any manual equipped hybrid of similar weight if there was one to compare it to.

so in other words, the HSD system is a lazyman hypermiler car ;)

so in other words, the HSD system is a lazyman hypermiler car ;)

If you said that in PriusChat, I think your life insurance company would drop you. :D

I basically like the Insight and what it does, but realize that hybrid technology can be improved.

Hi Phil:

___Until I learned about P&G in the Prius II thanks to Dan, I was not inclined to give HSD its due. That has most certainly changed given what we all know today! At the Madison Hybrid Group Meet yesterday, Bobb and Jane Cherney as well as myself took out a relatively new 2006 Toyota Prius owner for some P&G training. ****ed if she did not have 3 - 5-minute bars pegged to the ceiling (99.9 + mpg’s) just driving around the outskirts of Madison with all four of us in the car. You simply cannot do that in a Honda hybrid unless you are really aggressive and that includes the Insight!

___Good Luck

___Wayne