View Full Version : BMW and Mercedes to use three-pots
seftonm 07-23-2009, 02:06 PM http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/European_Union_Flag.jpg Mercedes will have one on sale in the next four to five years, and BMW has designed the next 1-series to handle a 3-cylinder engine (http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/241722/)
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/bmw_mercedes.jpgMichael Taylor - AUTOCAR (http://www.autocar.co.uk) - July 22, 2009
The downsizing of engines to improve fuel economy continues. It will take a lot of convincing to sell these engines North America. --Ed.
Mercedes-Benz and BMW are both working on three-cylinder petrol engines that will be launched within five years.
All Mercedes up to and including the C-class will be available with a three-cylinder turbocharged unit, while BMW is developing cars to suit the quirky noise, vibration and harshness characteristics of three-pot engines.
“A three-cylinder engine in the C-class is quite conceivable,” said Daimler’s board member in charge of R&D, Dr Thomas Weber.
Daimler strategist Johannes Reisenrath went further. “Logically, if we go from eight to six cylinders with the same output to help economy, and we go from six to four cylinders, then four has to go somewhere too,” he said.
“Now we can do a 1.2-litre three-cylinder, so we can have 168bhp with a turbo, plus 150-185lb ft, which is enough to drive a mid-sized car like the C-class very well. It also has a six per cent fuel consumption benefit, and with 95g/km of CO2 fleet fuel consumption as a target, that’s an option we have to consider.
“We will have one on sale in the next four to five years.”... http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/241722/
Right Lane Cruiser 07-23-2009, 02:15 PM Interesting! I certainly can't complain about my 3cyl engine. ;)
diamondlarry 07-23-2009, 02:22 PM Interesting! I certainly can't complain about my 3cyl engine. ;)
This can't necessarily be said by those who are trying to keep up with you in the Daily Grind.;):p
Earthling 07-23-2009, 02:38 PM I had a 3-cylinder BMW: it was an '86 K75C motorcycle.
BMW is developing cars to suit the quirky noise, vibration and harshness characteristics of three-pot engines.
My old bike was actually none of the above, and was very smooth, quiet, and not harsh at all. It had an inline triple engine configuration and was one of the smoothest BMW bikes at the time.
Harry
jonniedee 07-23-2009, 03:14 PM I had a 1200 K bike and remember that the 3 pot K75's were actually SMOOTHER than the 4 pot 12's!
phoebeisis 07-23-2009, 03:18 PM I had an XS850 Yamaha-(3 cyl) it was plenty smooth.
Charlie
seftonm 07-23-2009, 07:51 PM Hi Harry, the article mentions that BMW has experience with 3-cylinder bike engines where reducing NVH is critical. Nice to hear that even BMW was already making good 3-cylinder engines 20 years ago.
lightfoot 07-23-2009, 08:30 PM Makes one wonder when BMW and Mercedes will wake up and realize that they can use an IMA motor to dampen the vibrations (and do all sorts of other great stuff) and avoid the friction and weight of a balance shaft. This is what the Insight-I does: the IMA motor delivers pulses of drive and drag (under computer control) to smooth out the engine.
beatr911 07-24-2009, 10:09 AM Hi Harry, the article mentions that BMW has experience with 3-cylinder bike engines where reducing NVH is critical. Nice to hear that even BMW was already making good 3-cylinder engines 20 years ago.
The K75 had a counterbalancer in the engine. A tad more friction, but butter smooth.
Personally I'm almost done with the truck and am beginning to look for a good E36 318i. I spoke with a guy in the lane next to me in stop and go traffic driving one with EFICENCY as his license plate, said it was quite easy to reach 40mpg by not going faster than 60 mph. He also didn't know the term "hypermiling". Oh they are also pretty darn cheap, drive like a BMW and usually the previous owners take very good care of them.
phoebeisis 07-24-2009, 11:09 AM As fuel prices eventually trend upward there will be more interest in using smaller motors-3's and 4's to drive bigger vehicles. If GM wants to continue selling 1/2 ton light duty people/stuff movers like pickups and large SUVs they will have to do something about the big motors and the pumping losses/friction losses.
The cyl shutdown on the 5.3 gives a little more hy FE but not much. Going to a big 4 cyl with a turbo would be a better way probably.A diesel turbo has some huge advantages over a spark turbo, so that is probably the smart way.
A plan B would be to have 6-7 speed transmission with the 5.3 with extremely tall gearin so that it was turning maybe 1200 RPMs at 60 mph. That way the throttle plate would be nearly open, and pumping and friction losses would be low.Of course with the current harmonic balancer and crank weighs/flywheel weights the motor would lug under that low RPM load. An answer would be some sort of clutchable gearable very heavy(or big diameter so the angular momentum was high) flywheel.
Yes, kinetic energy storage hybrids just haven't worked out yet, but maybe someday they will. GMs dual mode hybrid gets great city mpg, but it is waaaaay expensive.Besides it uses too big a motor-6 liter-.
If my FSP had a 2.7-3 liter 4 cyl spark motor it would probably get 2 mg better hy.150 hp and maybe the same torque would be plenty adequate for my use.I use it as a giant minivan stuff hauler and pet hauler. Most folks who tow usually tow with 1/2 tons just light trailers-rarely over 2500 lbs.
Charlie
nervousmini 07-24-2009, 09:17 PM The K75 had a counterbalancer in the engine. A tad more friction, but butter smooth.
Personally I'm almost done with the truck and am beginning to look for a good E36 318i. I spoke with a guy in the lane next to me in stop and go traffic driving one with EFICENCY as his license plate, said it was quite easy to reach 40mpg by not going faster than 60 mph. He also didn't know the term "hypermiling". Oh they are also pretty darn cheap, drive like a BMW and usually the previous owners take very good care of them.
E36 318 BMWs are just about as good as you can get. Really just the best of the design, with only a few - but livable flaws. Let me know when you are ready to get one and I can keep my eyes/ears open for you as there are several available at any given time around me and I can sort the gems from the chaff.
I used to have a 1996 318ti - just awesome, I beat the snot out of that car and it always gave me at least 27 mpg with an automatic and running 17" M3 wheels/tires with r compound leftover tires from the track guys in the summer.
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