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http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/AmericanFlag.jpg Mr. Obama estimated that between 2012 and 2042, the new standards on light bulb efficiency would save consumers up to $4 billion a year, reducing emissions of greenhouses gases “equal to the amount pr (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/29/obama-touts-switch-to-new-light-bulb-standards/)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/CFL_Bulb.jpgSheryl Gay Stolberg - BLOGS (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com) - June 29, 2009

Let's make sure CFLs and LED bulbs are reliable, too --Ed.

How many politicians does it take to change a light bulb?

One, if he’s the president of the United States.

Fresh off a legislative victory on Capitol Hill, where the House passed legislation intended to address global warming and transform the way the nation produces and uses energy, President Obama announced Monday that he is setting new standards for fluorescent and incandescent lighting as part of a series of steps to promote energy efficiency across the country.

“I know light bulbs may not seem sexy,’’ Mr. Obama said during a brief appearance at the White House. “But this simple action holds enormous promise, because 7 percent of all the energy consumed in America is used to light our homes and our businesses.’’... http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/29/obama-touts-switch-to-new-light-bulb-standards/

I voted in this direction, with my wallet and my house, 5 years ago. I think it's a great idea. However, do we really need politicians telling us this, in the form of multi-thousand-page legislation?

Long term, New homes should be built for fluorescent and LEDs.

I've had too many of those fail at my house. :(

I had one batch of 6 that all failed within about 6 months. The rest are running just fine, including the replacements in those same fixtures. They've done well for me.

I'd like to know what shortens the life of these bulbs so I can prevent it in the future.

"They" say that head buildup in enclosed fixtures is hard on them, but most of mine are enclosed, so I'm not sure about that.

I'd like to know what shortens the life of these bulbs so I can prevent it in the future.

I think voltage spikes play a part in it. I've been buying cfls for 15 years now and I have them throughout my house. I've seen them change from the big heavy magnetic ballast type to the electronic ballast type. As such, they use a switching power supply with a Metal Oxide Semiconductor Field Effect transistor (MOSFET) to chop the voltage through a high frequency transformer just above audio range (20 to 40 KHz) to get the voltage just right. http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/samschem.htm#schcfl2 The MOSFET in the ballast is very sensitive to voltage spikes and can be permanently damaged when the A/C turns on and off or when there are power interruptions from an electrical storm like we had yesterday evening. I saw one of my cfl floods in the kitchen flicker. That's not a good sign so I've got my eye on it when the ballast finally gives out. They will probably have to put some Metal Oxide Varistor voltage spike suppressing devices in these cfls if they are to withstand these voltage spikes. In the meantime I would restrict their use to lamps and plug them into a voltage spike suppressor power strip. A strip that can supress 600 to 800 kilajoules should be sufficient.

Frequently switching cfl lights on and off in a short period of time before they have a chance to get up to full brilliance can shorten their life too. When I turn on a light in a closet, for example, I wait a couple of minutes until the cfl gets to full brilliance and then turn them off. Since most of my cfls are in lamps I generally leave them on and they have lasted quite a while and you take it for granted that they are cfls because the light so closely matches incandescent that it’s hard to tell the difference.

Cyclic loading (on/off) reduces longevity. Leaving them on continuously gives more hrs.

Cyclic loading (on/off) reduces longevity. Leaving them on continuously gives more hrs.Just learned something today. :)

I still use incandescents in closets, refrigerators, freezers, and other applications where the light is usually on for less than a minute. Also in outdoor locations that tend to stay humid and damp where the CFL electronics package tends not to hold up.

I still use incandescents in closets, refrigerators, freezers, and other applications where the light is usually on for less than a minute. Also in outdoor locations that tend to stay humid and damp where the CFL electronics package tends not to hold up.

^This. Every bulb here is CFL except the ones that stay on less than 3 minutes at a time (bathroom, closet, hall, laundry).
Surprisingly I have them in my outdoor lights which are motion sensor controlled to only stay on 4 minutes at a time, and they have been holding up ok for 3 years.

Interesting info here. I converted a few years ago, except for fridge, stove, and a few outdoor lights that are rarely on. So far no failures, even though we need summer AC and have some lightning activity. None are on surge suppressors.

Almost all of our interior lights and all of our exterior lights have been CFL for 3 years now, with no failures.

/shrug

Anyone note I'm not categorically dismissing CFLs/LEDs because they are not working for me?

I have regular fluorescents in the kitchen and they are 11yrs old.

Gut feeling is it's about the CFLs I purchased, how they were used, and surges.

i really wish we did not have to Regulate common sence.

i have been switching over to CFL's as my regular bulbs die.
I do not need a GOVT program to tell me i need to do this..

if people want to spend more of the $$ on electricity because they buy the wrong bulbs - LET THEM.. But we cannot let people make bad decisions anymore can we....

Will there be a "Light Bulb Bailout"??? every american gets $100 credit to buy CFL's? ( and this magical program costs the average american househould $200 in additional taxes)
GENIUS..


Sorry - i am in one of THOSE moods.... I need it to be tomorrow already..

Its kinda funny for me that this push has just come out from Obama about these bulbs.

I am a hyper-recylcer--i take things apart to make sure that they can be recycled.

Sometimes people ask why I am like this and when I respond that it is not necessarily because I care about the environment they get a little indignant.

I think that environmental things just make sense to us as humans, and if we do that stuff naturally the environment will benefit.

Back to the light bulbs...We moved last year and replaced all of the bulbs in the house with the energy saver ones.

I even bought those expensive vanity globe ones for the bathroom.

Now, a year or so later I have thrown out like 30% of them due to failure.

Now, because I do not want mercury to be dripping out of my garbage can I have to waste gas to get rid of them so that heavy metals do not pollute the environment.

I can only imagine the electricity it takes to recycle these things.

I sort of have buyers remorse.

I think that cfl is a farse and led is where it should be.

Just an opinion.

Coal burning power plants are emitting more mercury into the air to light your incandescent bulbs over a lifetime than the minute amount that escapes a household of broken CFLs.

Even the most expensive LED bulbs are nowhere near the light output of a standard CFL.

Coal burning power plants are emitting more mercury into the air to light your incandescent bulbs over a lifetime than the minute amount that escapes a household of broken CFLs.

The amount in a broken cfl will be orders of magnitude higher concentrations then the well distributed coal emissions. Probably still not something to panic about but care should be taken if you break one. Don't have your child clean up the mess.

I am a hyper-recylcer--i take things apart to make sure that they can be recycled.



A distinct problem with CFL's is that they are more complicated to recycle. Instead of the glass, steel, bit of ceramic, tungston filiment, and argon gas of an incandescent, with the CFL you have the glass, steel, and bit of ceramic, but also have a plastic enclosure, a circuit board with its resistors, capacitors, and IC's, and the toxic mercury and phosphors inside of the glass tube to dispose of.

I'm also curious how much energy it takes to manufacture the relatively simple incandescent bulb compared with the much more complex and materials intensive CFL. This also needs to be factored into its lifetime energy budget along with transportation from its manufacturing location (mostly China for CFL's. often the USA for incandescents).

President Obama announced Monday that he is setting new standards for fluorescent and incandescent lighting as part of a series of steps to promote energy efficiency across the country.

WTF is this guy, a dictator. HE is setting standards? I wish this guy would take a month vacation like Bush did. He can hopefully do less damage that way.

As to CFL's, i don't need the chief dictator of the US to tell me what i need to use. I have been using them for years. I especially like them in hard to reach fixtures, becasue of their longer life. I have had failures, but much less so than standard incandescents. There are a few fixtures where they just would look stupid that i still use incandescents, but most of the bulbs that are on for longer periods are cfls. I have 4 floods bulbs lighting the area in front of my home. There are 2 motion sensors with 2 flood bulbs in each. I use 3 cfl.s and one 90w halogen. In winter, it takes the cfls several minutes to come to full brightness. So the halogen gives some light until the cfls come up to brightness. Its a functional compromise.

One thing to keep in mind abouot that 7% figure in the article. It includes businesses. many businesses have large HID flood lighting for parking lots. Just look at the flood lighting used at a car dealer. These are the larger energy users, and you are not going to replace them with cfls.

It makes me wonder what kind of standard. Maybe part of the NECA code? Standards tend to be recommendations -- usually it's up to your local building authority to decide which various parts of different codes to apply/interpret/enforce. If it hasn't already been done, it would make sense to adopt construction standards to improve operablility of CFL's in new construction (see Delta Flyer's comments above).

It'd be best to find out about the standard before you head to the barricades or rejoice. ( It's way too easy to figure out some people's prejudices in this thread.:rolleyes:) My guess would be that a new construction standard that has been in the formulation process for a few years is about to be announced.

Sorry I came late with my mod hat. :o

It would be helpful on quotes to keep the front end of the tag so we know who is being quoted....my minor point....for the bigger point....

WTF is this guy, a dictator. HE is setting standards? I wish this guy would take a month vacation like Bush did. He can hopefully do less damage that way.

As to CFL's, i don't need the chief dictator of the US to tell me what i need to use.Mr Obama is exercising power Congress granted him....if it's unpopular enough, Congress or public outcry can reverse it.

No problem with you voicing your problems with this policy, but cut the name-calling please....this kind of smack talk does not happen in nations with real dictators like Honduras, Iran, N Korea.

Don't worry - I've hissed off "socialists" and "fascists" on this forum alike. :D :eyebrow:

Moving on....

Sorry I came late with my mod hat. :o

It would be helpful on quotes to keep the front end of the tag so we know who is being quoted....my minor point....for the bigger point....

Mr Obama is exercising power Congress granted him....if it's unpopular enough, Congress or public outcry can reverse it.

No problem with you voicing your problems with this policy, but cut the name-calling please....this kind of smack talk does not happen in nations with real dictators like Honduras, Iran, N Korea.

Don't worry - I've hissed off "socialists" and "fascists" on this forum alike. :D :eyebrow:

Moving on....
Well excuse me if i feel he has been acting more as a dictator than as a president. I just call them the way i see them.
My apologies to those fans i may have offended.:o

Well excuse me if i feel he has been acting more as a dictator than as a president. I just call them the way i see them.
My apologies to those fans i may have offended.:oI voted McCain. ;)

Just trying to keep things from boiling too furiously.

Again, attack the policy all you want.

I voted McCain. ;)

Just trying to keep things from boiling too furiously.

Again, attack the policy all you want.
Understood. My apology was sincere.
I tried to make the point in my post, but perhaps i didn't do a very good job. I have no problem with the spirit, only the implementation. I truly believe that most Americans are already moving in this direction. I am in the electrical business, so i tend to embrace newer tech early. as i did with CFLs. I think it silly for the government to stick their nose into something like this, becasue most people are already moving in that direction. No need to spend the time money and energy to try to mandate something that is already in the process of happening on its own. Most Americans do not like to be TOLD what to do, but given the opportunity, most will do the right thing on their own. At least when it comes to light bulbs.

You're alright. :)

Part of me coming down is seeing where other forums get a bit carried away on politics, religion, and other hot topics.

Have a great 4th!

You're alright. :)

Part of me coming down is seeing where other forums get a bit carried away on politics, religion, and other hot topics.

Have a great 4th!
You too my friend.:flag::flag:

Even the most expensive LED bulbs are nowhere near the light output of a standard CFL.


That's not actually true. There are now LED street lamps. A company that was originally producing LED lamps for projectors makes them. So there are lamps the equivilent to multi-hundreds of watts of the old bulbs and cities are buying them for economic reasons, so they must work, although they aren't a home option.

You can also get home bulbs that around 100W equiv, but good ones can cost from $50 to $100. Still, I haven't heard of any problems with the high quality bulbs, so they may well deliver the economic benefit they and CFLs have promised. I just wish one major home outlet would start selling them and have a demo where you can actually see the light output and pattern before buying.