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This thread highlights my track day at Dunnville, about 2hrs drive from Toronto. I'm there to flog my car all I want, hehe.

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=301052

I am in the "2001" Corolla with what looks like a projector for headlights (it IS real HID projectors retrofitted in :D, and it's loaded with plush piggies :o :D) This HID headlights, once over the initial light-up, draws about 8A for the pair, 2/3 of what a halogen bulb draws. Now I can leave my headlight on and still do FAS, hehe.

There are FE stats in the first post but I'll repeat it here.

The route is like this: Toronto -> Hamilton -> Dunnville and back.

Before starting the trip I set the tires to 44psi. They are Falken 912, 195/55/15 mounted on Konig Heliums. Not exactly good for FE but at least it's lighter than stock. Not to mention there's lots of equipments to carry... camcorder, tripod, GPS, laptop, DashDyno (which is in the car anyway), and a PowerPack Solar, plus some food and drinks.

It still seems like DWL+DWB is the techniques I have the best handle on, with the occasional FAS. From Toronto to Dunnville I get 6.4L/100km including some time and drive lost due to being lost. :o That's what I got for wanting to get my GPS navigation free.

Between Hamilton and Dunnville are mostly 80km/h country roads with occasional 50km/h residential segments when I'll just FAS and glide to speed. Once out of the slow zone I downshift to 4, accelerate to 80km/h, then go back to 5 to DWL again.

Once there, I switched my DashDyno into datalogging mode (and myself into crazy driving mode :D it's a track after all) to see how fast can my car and I do on the track. I can take my corners at 55km/h, FE be damned. :D

On the return leg, now that I know the way back, having switched the navigation tool from Fedora+Navit+OpenStreetMap to Windows+Street&Trips 2009 (ie. no wasted trek), and using the same strategy above - DWL/DWB and a few FAS at lights - I managed 5.6L/100km to a gas station in Hamilton.

That station is not far from the highway to home, but once on it, there's construction, congestion, and everyone going faster than 100km/h makes me struggle to keep up. Without any FAS chance, doing just DWL/DWB, FE slowly crept down to 6.0L/100k.

What do you guys think of my performance here?

I think it is great! I wish more people that had the urge to do some fast driving would head to the race track to get their fix, instead of on the highways! good work!

Before starting the trip I set the tires to 44psi.

...

Once there, I switched my DashDyno into datalogging mode (and myself into crazy driving mode :D it's a track after all) to see how fast can my car and I do on the track. I can take my corners at 55km/h, FE be damned. :D

...

What do you guys think of my performance here?

I think your hypermiling is better than I can do on track days (30mpg with low tires and 93 octane), your tires are overinflated (for track use), and your corner speed stinks- Apex those suckers!

What's your non-track FE?

^ What I posted are my off-track FE. On-track FE I think is 10+L/100km looking at the DashDyno data afterwards.

You can't hypermile ON the track; you'll be walked all over by others, LOL :D Yes I think I'm still too late braking into those corners.

.................On-track FE I think is 10+L/100km looking at the DashDyno data afterwards.
Funny thing is there are many people commuting to work doing worse than that! Well done. I'm a reformed speeder too but i enjoy the odd kart race. In fact, some guys from work organised a go kart race before Christmas and they were all telling me that i have to press the gas pedal and dont be coasting etc. Well, i beat them all and won the grand prix! Cue the sound of jaws dropping everywhere! I then fas'ed out of the car park on the way home......

ollie

Nice job!

There's an indoor kart track in Amherst, NY right off the 290. Kinda spendy, but those karts are wicked fast and it's a blast. Definite pedal to the metal there. Then nice and easy back home...

Hi buurin, way to keep the racing where it belongs! Also, thank you for doing your HID's the correct way with HID projectors. I can't stand the drop-in kits that so many others use.

Dunnville is a hell of a lot of fun.. lapped it a few times (30 or so.. tons of fun) but wasn't keeping track.. got to drive a friends prepped 240.. nothing like race rubber and a car that damn near perfectly balanced to put a big smile on your face..

if you still had enough gas in your tank to reach the gas station, you didn't do enough laps.. :)

What was your speed at the end of the straight into the kink before the hard right?

Did they let you lap it in reverse also (counter clockwise?).. that sweeper is awesome at full tilt and declining radius.

55 km/h, is, umm, carry the three... No, wait! It's I before E except after... No, that's not it.

Bout 35 MPH? Must be a very tight track!

Sounds like fun, though! My track car is the 914, and it runs funky enough that I don't hypermile it. There are only a couple of corners at my local (-ish) tracks that are as slow as 45 MPH for it, though.

-soD

I'm going at it again tomorrow, this time to Mosport, only an hour away, and I'm going to drop my tire pressure a bit once I reach there. any suggestions? 32? 35? 38? 40?

I have plotted a special return route (when I can afford to be late home :D) through the country roads around the Bowmanville/Clarington "urban" areas, being encouraged by my 5.6L/100km stretch last time. Did an oil change on engine and tranny, so let's see if I can reach that figure again.

I will run my car on track twice more, on Cayuga and Shannonville, both 1.5 hours away.

I'm going at it again tomorrow, this time to Mosport, only an hour away, and I'm going to drop my tire pressure a bit once I reach there. any suggestions? 32? 35? 38? 40?

I have plotted a special return route (when I can afford to be late home :D) through the country roads around the Bowmanville/Clarington "urban" areas, being encouraged by my 5.6L/100km stretch last time. Did an oil change on engine and tranny, so let's see if I can reach that figure again.

I will run my car on track twice more, on Cayuga and Shannonville, both 1.5 hours away.

You can set your pressure 1 of 3 ways:

1) Set pressure to recommended high-speed pressures per owners manual.
2) Set cold pressure 4-6psi over door placard.
3) get some shoe polish and "chalk" the tires. Look what rubs off during hard cornering and lower pressure until the polish just wears off down to the wear indicators.

3) get some shoe polish and "chalk" the tires. Look what rubs off during hard cornering and lower pressure until the polish just wears off down to the wear indicators.

Can you explain this in more detail?

My placard is 32psi, so that means I should run 36-38 cold on the track. As I now run 44psi on street, that would mean drop 8psi from each tire once I reach the track. Am I thinking right?

Can you explain this in more detail?

My placard is 32psi, so that means I should run 36-38 cold on the track. As I now run 44psi on street, that would mean drop 8psi from each tire once I reach the track. Am I thinking right?

Correct. Also, your owners manual will generally have a "high-speed driving recommended pressure" you could use.

As for the "chalk method"- Get some white shoe polish in one of those sponge-topped bottles. Put a solid line of shoe polish from mid sidewall up onto the shoulder and past onto the tread of each tire. Go out for 20-30 mins and corner the car as hard as you will on the track. Park the car. The polish will have worn away where the tire contacts the ground. Find the tire wear indicators (usually a small triangle on the very edge of the sidewall with "TWI" next to it). Check where the polish has worn away. You will see 1 of 3 things:

1) Polish remains unbroken well above the TWI. You are losing adhesion and sliding or side-hopping before the tire reaches max grip. Lower PSI and try again.

2) Polish has worn away to near TWI. Tire is losing grip just before it rolls onto the sidewall. Max grip possible. PSI is OK.

3) Polish is worn away well below TWI or is solid but parts of line below TWI are missing. Tire is rolling onto sidewall (possible spin hazard). Increase PSI and rechalk tire before trying again.

Note: Max corner grip PSI will be lower than Max FE PSI. Steering will be heavier but control ultimately greater than Max FE PSI

I am back from the track.

Going there I just took the direct route and scored 6.1/100 or 39.0mpg. :woot: I pretty much just watched my right foot and that's it.

Guess my on track FE?

Lots of **** happens this day. My tail once came loose, ran off track and over one pylon. Corner speeds, depending on where it is, varied from 45 to 70 km/h, but are mostly 50. BTW I topped 110 here. I am already running 38psi as has been suggested. This is nothing compared to the occasional drifters/power sliders that always seem to escape my camera, the old Volvo that broke down, and the Subaru that went down the straight sideways and rolled. :eek:

Also running are one Echo hatch and one Yaris hatch. I talked to the Echo guy who says his Echo is his commuter car, only has handling mods done (and rims), and still gets 5.8/100 without even trying. I am jealous. :cool:

Oh I did a few FAS around the pit too. :D

After the day is over I took another hour to set my car up again for gas mileage (pumping tires up to 44psi again, set my DashDyno to monitor gas mileage etc.), and took the "specially planned country road route" home. The route is 2.3km shorter, is slower, and again just by watching the gas pedal, I scored 5.7/100 before reaching 401 where it went downhill again. But I still returned 6.0/100 (39.4mpg) overall. :woot:

My on-track is 7.4L/100 over about 10 laps and including movements in the pit area.

Note: Max corner grip PSI will be lower than Max FE PSI. Steering will be heavier but control ultimately greater than Max FE PSI

Max braking grip PSI will be lower too.

I'm puzzled. I find that from time to time, no matter how much I plan and look ahead, someone does something truly stupid on the street.

Plan B and Plan C generally require braking, cornering, or a combination of both.

So why on earth would you give safety up on the street that you aren't willing to give up on the track?

-mr. bill

The last I checked, track speeds and cornering conditions generally exceed those on public roads for comparable terrain. Particularly if one is hypermiling.

If we need max cornering and braking, why would anyone choose anything other than an exotic supercar (cost aside)?

If something isn't safe for the conditions, don't do it. People do stupid things around me all the time but quite honestly, at the speeds I drive the car stops a lot quicker than I expect.

If something isn't safe for the conditions, don't do it.
Heheheh I wonder what the driver of that rolled Subie would tell his insurance company. :D

In Solo II (aka autocross) the *fastest* cars will reach low 60 mph at the *fastest* part of the course.

My peak speed at an autocross so far has been 56 mph. (Rev limit 2nd gear.)

It's not uncommon to find a portion of the course to emulate a ~40 mph emergency lane change.

Physics is physics.

-mr. bill

Physics is physics, but so is safe driving with extreme following distances.

Yeah, and on a closed course your argument might have merit.

I don't have the luxury to drive on closed public roads. You?

-mr. bill

In Solo II (aka autocross) the *fastest* cars will reach low 60 mph at the *fastest* part of the course.

My peak speed at an autocross so far has been 56 mph. (Rev limit 2nd gear.)

It's not uncommon to find a portion of the course to emulate a ~40 mph emergency lane change.

Physics is physics.

-mr. bill

:biglol:

Not MY Autocross. I average ~60mph in my Civic. Top speed has touched 90mph, with the "B" cars and up easily topping 100 and touching 140mph at the bridge. Of course, I don't do it in a parking lot either.

Council Style Autocross (http://www.mcscc.org/autocross.php)

Autocross Track 1 (http://www.drivefastbesafe.com/)

Autocross Track 2 (http://www.blackhawkfarms.com/)


So yes, my settings are different on-track versus weekday (Including upgraded brakes).:woot:

And that would be Solo I, not Solo II. (And we run at an old airport.)

I probably will never have the stones or cash to "graduate."

-mr. bill

I am not sure I understand your question, Bill. I've driven all over the US for quite some number of years and so far, no "emergency lane change" has ever caused even a chirp from my tires. Why? Because I have very large following distances and I watch BOTH sides of every roadway I travel. I watch both sides because I have indeed had to avoid head on collisions, and that is how I've managed to get through such events without any damage.

Drawing conclusions from a closed course track and applying them to public roads is not always the best of practices, though it appears that is what most people want to do. How else do we explain the fascination with shorter 0-60mph times, speeds well in excess of posted limits, enormous engines that can be used to their potential almost never because of traffic, and huge, bulky, and incredibly heavy body shells which don't really offer more protection in most crashes (because EVERYONE is driving these behemoths and physics is physics, right) ?

Trust those of us who have done the "max performance driving" thing: You can get far more out of your car on the track than you ever could on the street. The level of prep is far greater, you are willing to compromise everything else for performance, and the mindset is rather different.

-soD

I am not sure I understand your question, Bill. I've driven all over the US for quite some number of years and so far, no "emergency lane change" has ever caused even a chirp from my tires. Why? Because I have very large following distances and I watch BOTH sides of every roadway I travel. I watch both sides because I have indeed had to avoid head on collisions, and that is how I've managed to get through such events without any damage.

Drawing conclusions from a closed course track and applying them to public roads is not always the best of practices, though it appears that is what most people want to do. How else do we explain the fascination with shorter 0-60mph times, speeds well in excess of posted limits, enormous engines that can be used to their potential almost never because of traffic, and huge, bulky, and incredibly heavy body shells which don't really offer more protection in most crashes (because EVERYONE is driving these behemoths and physics is physics, right) ?

Actually I'm directing this at Mr Bill.

I've driven in a manner similar to Sean for the past three years and it's earned me no tickets or accidents - others here have similar stories. Obviously the fact many have done this safely disturbs you or you would not be attacking this as you have for weeks.

I am not sure I understand your question, Bill. I've driven all over the US for quite some number of years and so far, no "emergency lane change" has ever caused even a chirp from my tires. Why? Because I have very large following distances and I watch BOTH sides of every roadway I travel. I watch both sides because I have indeed had to avoid head on collisions, and that is how I've managed to get through such events without any damage.

I think if I had been *really* paying attention I would have somehow seen the bloody mary mix, the celery, and the vodka bottle coming at me. He would have just driven right on past if she didn't remind him it was their turn at the last second. But I hadn't picked up on the signs that he would simply turn the wheel to make a left turn without even touching the brakes. When I asked are you two all right he answered "I didn't see you." I had to ask again to get the "I think so." So it was actually quite a relief to see the bloody mary mix (I thought the red stuff was something else). Why didn't I see that before?


And the evening the youths (young adults) dashed in front of my car? I really screwed that one up, because if I'd only been able to see through opaque objects I would have seen them much sooner. As it was because of my blunder it took every bit of stopping power (including some squeeling). Understand that if I'd traded off just 10% of my stopping power in a quest for ever more MPG, I would have "only" hit them at 10 mph.


So, yeah, I'll freely admit I'm simply not good enough to avoid everything that public roads throw at me. In fact, I'm quite certain I'm not as good a driver as I think I am. And for those times I make such horrible mistakes, yeah, I'll drive with brakes.


Drawing conclusions from a closed course track and applying them to public roads is not always the best of practices, though it appears that is what most people want to do.

And what conclusions should we draw from a closed course track in San Jose California?

-mr. bill

What opaque objects would those be, Bill? A line of cars? Such as the ones I steer away from as much as possible, drive really slowly past, and watch for movement on the other side of? Or maybe a parked delivery truck? Maybe I missed something in Driver's Ed, but aren't you supposed to be more cautious when sight lines are obscured? I drive through a lot of places that have children playing behind obstacles and I'm constantly avoiding balls and projectiles -- along with kids chasing them on foot, bicycle, blades, and skateboards. I haven't come close to hitting one yet because I drive for the conditions and use my horn when appropriate.

What closed course track in San Jose are we talking about? Notice also that I stated (in the quote you so nicely included) "not always the best of practices"... not "never a good idea"... not "completely invalid"... not some other completely exclusive statement.

Dude. Lighten up.

So, yeah, I'll freely admit I'm simply not good enough to avoid everything that public roads throw at me. In fact, I'm quite certain I'm not as good a driver as I think I am. And for those times I make such horrible mistakes, yeah, I'll drive with brakes.
Most of what you are fussed about is really rather standard safe-driving fare probably taught in car driving courses and definitely taught in MSF Motorcycle Safety courses. Most of us "get" it, so it's surprising that you are having difficulty:
(1) anticipate possible problems rather than simply reacting when something happens
(2) slow down so that you have more time to react, and don't need to brake as hard when a situation does arise
(3) increase following distance so that (a) you have more time to react and (b) your sight lines are better
(4) slow even more when your sight lines are obscured.

And what conclusions should we draw from a closed course track in San Jose California?
Driving on a closed course is quite different than on public roads because the threats are fewer and more defined on closed courses. But people who autocross and roadrace need to "switch gears" and adjust their mindset when they drive on public roads. Incidentally, many motorcycle roadracers tacitly admit their inability to do this by refusing to ride on public roads, saying that riding on the street is "too dangerous" for them. And there is a natural tendency for any racer to think that their superior driving skills on the track make them a "better" driver on public roads. This may be part of your problem.

Apparently you find hypermiling too frightening for you?? Maybe you just shouldn't do it?? Maybe you should give up driving on public roads altogether?? But the many people here who have learned to hypermile find it an extremely safe way to drive. And their practical experience with it trumps your theoretical objections.

Isn't that the bottom line, though? Don't do anything that makes you uncomfortable, especially something you do not think is safe. I don't think anyone is telling you that you have to press up your tires, or put on a grille block, or whatever. We can tell you what has worked for us, and give you some idea of why.

If you absolutely have to have the best performance potential from your vehicle, you can set it up that way. (Of course, you wind up making trade-offs even then, so do you optimize for braking traction, or cornering, or ???) It is your car, and you are responsible for what it does.

-soD