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http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/../photos/data/2/AmericanFlag.jpg Occasionally, reports of acceleration malfunction surface. (http://injuryboard.com/national-news/Problems-With-Prius.aspx?googleid=263684)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Prius_Crash.jpgJane Akre - InjuryBoard (injuryboard.com) - May 26, 2009

Is it really the Prius? -- Ed

Paul Knight of the Houston Press reports on Bobette Riner, who bought a new Prius during the recent gasoline hike that had everyone thinking fuel-efficiency.

Riner even had a three-month wait before she got the energy conserving car with a “cute little body” that she loved.

Then while driving on a rainy night in Houston last fall, Riner was traveling about 60 mph when she felt the car hydroplaning out of control. The car’s speed had shot up to 84 mph quite on its own. Hitting the brakes, Riner found they were dead.

Then, just as suddenly as the car had accelerated, it shut down and Riner was now fighting a stiff steering wheel. Out of control she drifted across four lanes and down an exit ramp, coming to rest near a PetSmart parking lot.

Riner is not alone. She found that online message boards and blogs were full of owner horror stories about false acceleration that led to crashes.... http://www.injuryboard.com/national-news/Problems-With-Prius.aspx?googleid=263684

Hi Chuck:
She found that online message boards and blogs were full of owner horror stories about false acceleration that led to crashes...
___Full of??? I wonder where.

___Secondly, I am really tiring of these so called journalists that fail to get into their car, floor it with the brakes pressed and realize it will not move.

___BS let alone this story is a rehash of the rash stories that hit the wires two weeks ago.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Volvo had a problem with their 2000-2004 S60 concerning a bad throttle control module.
It just killed the acceleration to zero. The numbers were high like 60% of the cars had at least one fail before 50K miles. You got idle and that was it. So yes there can be a electronic throttle problem. I thought all these Toyota throttle problems were with the pre 05 Prius.

I'm skeptical of some of these stories.

A defect should not be this elusive.

I often wonder if, among all those horror stories online, anyone shifted to N when the car ran away on them. A car continuing to accelerate after shifted to neutral would be a great news story. But I guess the allegation that "coasting in neutral is illegal" left them to fight against the engine with the transaxle still in drive. :(

I've got a Prius, and have experienced nothing remotely similar to any of those stories.

It's all BS; more fodder for the pitchfork-and-torches mobs, scared to death of anything new, especially hybrid cars...

Harry

This sounds awfully similar to a car that hydroplanes and accelerates when its cruise control is engaged.

I can't account for the other stories but the first one with the lady in the rain is pretty easy to explain. She had her cruise control on and probably went through a large puddle, the cruise tried to over-correct and when her wheels regained traction she got a burst of acceleration (instant torque from the electric motor acceleration). Her brakes "didn't work" because she was hydroplaning. I don't think ABS can do much when you're skipping across water. I agree with Wayne and Maxx, its highly unlikely that there wasn't some way to stop these vehicles, even if the throttle was stuck open, which is doubtfull that it was.

You're too fast for me radio, we were thinking the same thing at roughly the same time.

___BS let alone this story is a rehash of the rash stories that hit the wires two weeks ago.

And didn't the previous round of stories -- all derived from Paul Knight of the Houston Press -- also suffer from an undisclosed conflict of interest?

Note also: "InjuryBoard is a growing community of attorneys, ..."

I've got a Prius, and have experienced nothing remotely similar to any of those stories.

It's all BS; more fodder for the pitchfork-and-torches mobs, scared to death of anything new, especially hybrid cars...

HarryLet's see, they say the EMF in a hybrid is more lethal than power lines, microwaves or the computer you are reading this from. While there is a shortage of nickel, detractors say disposal of traction battery packs are almost as bad as plutonium. The packs may fail like what happened to a couple of hundred out of over a million Toyota hybrids sold. While there have been documented cases of the Prius lasting over 300,000 miles and many more over 100,000 - you better believe Spinella's study they will probably fall apart at 100K instead. They get bad fuel economy, but not quite as bad as whatever the screamers are driving. The only way you can get really good mpg is to go 40 on the HOV lane. You're a traitor if you buy a Civic from Ohio or hybrid Camry in Kentucky - instead buy a Jeep Patriot from Beijing or Ram from Mexico using more of Hugo's gas.

Oh, you're a girly man.


Did I cover all the hybrid smack?

This sounds awfully similar to a car that hydroplanes and accelerates when its cruise control is engaged.

It also suggests strongly what happens when you slam on the brakes while hydroplaning: the anti-lock brakes act like "they are dead" when in reality, they are simply releasing braking pressure on the calipers to prevent wheel lock-up, which would feel to someone ignorant of this as "dead brakes."

Harry

Let's see, they say the EMF in a hybrid is more lethal than power lines, microwaves or the computer you are reading this from. While there is a shortage of nickel, detractors say disposal of traction battery packs are almost as bad as plutonium. The packs may fail like what happened to a couple of hundred out of over a million Toyota hybrids sold. While there have been documented cases of the Prius lasting over 300,000 miles and many more over 100,000 - you better believe Spinella's study they will probably fall apart at 100K instead. They get bad fuel economy, but not quite as bad as whatever the screamers are driving. The only way you can get really good mpg is to go 40 on the HOV lane. You're a traitor if you buy a Civic from Ohio or hybrid Camry in Kentucky - instead buy a Jeep Patriot from Beijing or Ram from Mexico using more of Hugo's gas.

Oh, you're a girly man.


Did I cover all the hybrid smack?

You forgot that Americans need SUVs because they "need the space" of a sport utility.
Compare 2009 Prius II to 2009 Tahoe:
Rear legroom - Prius 38.6, Tahoe 2nd row 39.0
Rear headroom - Prius 37.1, Tahoe 2nd row 39.2
Cargo area - Prius 16 cu ft, Tahoe 16.9 cu ft

People need the extra 3/8" of rear legroom, 2" of rear headroom, and a gallon of milk worth of extra cargo space. :rolleyes:

... [T]he Prius took off. He hit the brake, even the emergency brake but nothing worked...
I would think it would be extremely coincidental that an electronic failure (accelerator and brakes) would happen that same time as a mechanical failure (e-brake). I call shenanigans! He should have played the lottery that day!

The "hit the brakes and it took off" is always hitting the accelerator by accident, and freezing up with your foot pinning the accelerator to the firewall.

Those Audi "accidents" 20 years ago were mainly "I hit the brakes and it took off"-always a sign that they didn't hit the brakes, they hit the GO pedal and froze up pinning it to the firewall.
It is easy to screw up when you are driving and not paying 100% attention to what you are doing.

Just more driver error. They are lucky it is a relatively slow, small vehicle with decent handling. A large ,tall SUV would be a handful if you hit the wrong pedal.

Charlie

Nah! I vote the driver is incompetent and refuses to take responsibility for their own incompetence... throw in a cell phone for no reason except it's too common...

Does the older Gen Prius even have an E-brake?
I know the Newer ones don't.

Nah! I vote the driver is incompetent and refuses to take responsibility for their own incompetence... throw in a cell phone for no reason except it's too common...That's where I lean.

One time I "hit the brakes and it took off". :o I had been driving for a week, and I demolished a garage door. I was on the brakes quickly enough that only the hood of the car made it through before I had it stopped. As bad as that was, we're talking about a whole different level of incompetence here.

I did hear something somewhere about floor mats sticking on pedals.

84 mph, maybe this will kill the myth that Prius can't go faster than 60? :rolleyes:

84 mph, maybe this will kill the myth that Prius can't go faster than 60? :rolleyes:Another forum someone mentioned that their SUV was being tailgated by a Prius so it must be mainstream enough that a Prius is now JOTD material. :p If that was not enough, another members admited that week to getting a ticket for doing 96 in his Prius and got a 10mpg break from the officer, who obviously was not aware Al Gore III did over 100mph.

Progress. :eyebrow:

floor matt getting caught is a known problem. The OEM matt has a hook; I think most 3rd party products do not.

btw, this is not a Prius specific problem.

No, it's not. There was a recall on my model civic to install a hook. I bought mine used without the OEM mats, so I was disqualified. My aftermarket mat slides around, but I have NEVER had a problem with it.

I think paying attention helps... ;)

I remember a similar thing with some of the Fords back in either the 70's or 80's I don't remember which, where the accelerator would go wide open sometimes upon engaging the cruise control. I think Ford ended up doing a recall on that one.

The "hit the brakes and it took off" is always hitting the accelerator by accident, and freezing up with your foot pinning the accelerator to the firewall.

Those Audi "accidents" 20 years ago were mainly "I hit the brakes and it took off"-always a sign that they didn't hit the brakes, they hit the GO pedal and froze up pinning it to the firewall.
It is easy to screw up when you are driving and not paying 100% attention to what you are doing.

Just more driver error. They are lucky it is a relatively slow, small vehicle with decent handling. A large ,tall SUV would be a handful if you hit the wrong pedal.

Charlie

During the whole Audi scare, they compiled a ton of stats on the "problem".
I noticed that the Ford Crown Vic had an order of magnitude less incidents per 1000 units sold than the Mercury Grand Marquis. It seems that police officers, cabbines and others have an easier time telling the difference between the gas and the brakes than did the 72-year-oldd average driver of the Grand Marquis at the time.
I call BS.

Oh, and just did some runs in the Cartest simulator on a car with 130 HP and 3270 lbs weight ... I'm showing a time between 6 and 8 seconds for a Prius to make it from 60 MPH to 84 MPH.
There's nothing sudden about that.
Methinks someone is lying to avoid personal responsibility.

Let's see, they say the EMF in a hybrid is more lethal than power lines, microwaves or the computer you are reading this from. While there is a shortage of nickel, detractors say disposal of traction battery packs are almost as bad as plutonium. The packs may fail like what happened to a couple of hundred out of over a million Toyota hybrids sold. While there have been documented cases of the Prius lasting over 300,000 miles and many more over 100,000 - you better believe Spinella's study they will probably fall apart at 100K instead. They get bad fuel economy, but not quite as bad as whatever the screamers are driving. The only way you can get really good mpg is to go 40 on the HOV lane. You're a traitor if you buy a Civic from Ohio or hybrid Camry in Kentucky - instead buy a Jeep Patriot from Beijing or Ram from Mexico using more of Hugo's gas.

Oh, you're a girly man.


Did I cover all the hybrid smack?


I'd like to see the detractors injest a grain of plutonium 239 into one of their lungs and then make that claim one month from now if they're still breathing by then.

I remember a similar thing with some of the Fords back in either the 70's or 80's I don't remember which, where the accelerator would go wide open sometimes upon engaging the cruise control. I think Ford ended up doing a recall on that one.

I'm remembering something similar. I want to say it was something to do with a rare cruise control glitch. At any rate, I want to know how any car can 'take off' with the e-brake on. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that particular Prius have the 1.5 liter in it? I have the same thing in my Prius and I have witnessed first hand (credit to my wife) that the 1.5 really has to wind out in order to go anywhere with the e-brake on!

I'm somewhat skeptical of this report.

just turn the key off...

OT but good a place as any.

Visiting my brother last week we stopped at a bar in Minneapolis (NYE's Polonaise we Polish) for a beer and scored the spot right in front of the entrance and parked his Prius. We were chatting about the display and then headed in.

10 Minutes later a waitress askes if we own the Prius out front. Yep. Well your lights are on. Brother says thanks and then says to me , they shut off automatically. A few minutes later he decides to investigate....He never shut the Prius off......D'oh.

That silent electric motor can be a problem too. ;)

You forgot that Americans need SUVs because they "need the space" of a sport utility.
Compare 2009 Prius II to 2009 Tahoe:
Rear legroom - Prius 38.6, Tahoe 2nd row 39.0
Rear headroom - Prius 37.1, Tahoe 2nd row 39.2
Cargo area - Prius 16 cu ft, Tahoe 16.9 cu ft

People need the extra 3/8" of rear legroom, 2" of rear headroom, and a gallon of milk worth of extra cargo space. :rolleyes:

Heh that reminds me of a documentary my friend watched recently. He said that the presenter went up to a SUV owner and asked why that she had a SUV. "For the space of course, I have 3 kids, and I have to shift a lot of stuff". Presenter asked "What about an estate car?" (station wagon). Lady scoffed and said "They're much smaller than a SUV, wouldn't fit all the stuff I need in there - look at what I have in here!" and waves over all the stuff she has in her SUV. Presenter said "OK then, we've got an estate car parked over there, how about trying to put your stuff in there, just see if you can fit everything in there - just try it ok?" Lady agreed. They moved their car next to the SUV and the lady loaded up the car - at first she had a "Yeah right dream on!" face on, but as she loaded it up, her face progressively changed into amazement. After loading it up, she said "Wow, this car actually have LOTS more space than my SUV! How is this possible?!" :rolleyes:

I had a similar reaction from my wife when I finally got her to actually compare the volume inside a Prius to what she has in the Escape, Eddles. The Escape can take taller items in the cargo area, but that's about it. :rolleyes:

RLC - Going off topic. Trying not to offend, and certainly not being nasty, and probably just me, but every time I look at the pic of your baby, I always get reminded of the actor (http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/060105/145213__csi_l.jpg) in CSI Miami for some strange reason, I don't know why... I'm pretty sure your baby don't look anything like him, but to me, the picture makes her look like him! ;)

LOL! I need to get a more updated picture in there. :o

LOL! I need to get a more updated picture in there. :o

Get one with sunglasses to complete the CSI look!

I figured I'd help you guys get back on topic here .... ;)

There's been an interesting discussion (http://priuschat.com/forums/care-maintenance-troubleshooting/61226-help-diagnosing-unintended-uncommanded-acceleration-issue.html) going on PriusChat about this subject. The OP reports firsthand and multiple experiences with unintended acceleration. Some feathers flew early on in the discussion as he was accused of trolling; his original thread title (later edited), "My Prius tried to kill me!" didn't help. But the conversation has settled down into a reasoned attempt to get to the truth. The OP comes across as very credible, rational (now) and accepting of feedback and suggestions from others.

It's easy to blame the floor mat or the driver (and I tend to do the same when I hear these reports), but after reading that thread I can't help but think, "Suppose he's telling the truth?"

Does the older Gen Prius even have an E-brake?
I know the Newer ones don't.

I interpret "E-brake" to mean emergency brake. The newer Prius does have a parking brake, foot operated, which could be used as an emergency brake.

Harry

G2 Prius has a hand brake too.

Hmm, I read the report on the other forum. It seems very credible.Most are probably driver error, maybe some aren't.
Charlie

Why can't he be telling the truth? My 2001 diesel Astra (75BHP) has an electronic "drive-by-wire" throttle and I have found I rarely, if ever, needed to use the accelerator to get the car to start moving - I just lift up the clutch pedal and the car would move forward quite quickly comparatively - while in my old 2001 Civic (120BHP) with a mechanical throttle, I could only move up the clutch pedal extremely slowly and the car would move forward really slowly with the engine vibrating really badly. I originally attributed this to the fact that I had a diesel, so it's stronger, but after doing exactly the same *up* an *steep* hill - I suspect my car ECU finds the engine is struggling, and automatically increases the throttle just slightly to prevent the engine from stalling - when I started up the hill with just the clutch, the car moved very slowly for a split second then the engine revved up slightly and smoothly (not jerking) and then the car moved as if it wasn't on a hill. I wouldn't say this is unsafe as it only increases the throttle just very slightly and the car is doing what I expect - move forward as I'm lifting up on the clutch. Also, I have recently looked back in my time of owning the car in 2.5 months, I have only stalled the car once and that was last week and I slipped on the clutch pedal. I stall the Honda very often but that's due to the ultra-sensitive accelerator. I usually stall cars a couple times the first week I get them as I'm not used to the accelerator then rarely stall them.

But I disgress - my point is that it might be possible that a faulty sensor is making the ECU think the car's struggling and applying the throttle? I know some cars has a "Hill Start Assist" - does the Pirus have it? Maybe it's turning on accidentally? I mean, there are a lot of possible reasons why this is happening to the Pirus - don't just dismiss things out of hand just because it's "not possible" and that the Pirus is "perfect". It might be, but it's not 100% reliable. Nothing can be. Ever.

Labouring my point - *anything* can happen on cars - there are hundred thousands copies of one model and increasing complexity means strange faults can occur and it could occur to any model. My 1993 Nova occasionally turns on the "Check Engine" light on the highway and then turn it off after 10 seconds - the manual says that this is perfectly normal and don't need to be reported to the dealer. A kludge fix I believe. Even my Civic did this once - it turned the "Check Engine" light on solid for 3 days straight and turned it off just before I was going to take it to a dealer.

Keep in mind, imagine if the reliability of every part of a car has a 0.00001% chance of failing in a year, and there's 100,000 parts, then the reliability of the car will have a 1% chance of failing in a year.

Remember, no company have *ever* made *anything* that *never* had breakdowns, ever. My Civic had a intermittment starting problem costing me $1000 and it took Honda 2 months to diagnose and the car was off road for that time - one Honda dealer even accused me of lying. Despite the fact that I only brought it for Honda's reputation for reliability and that got a bad knock - even then I still think Hondas are the most reliable cars around. I just got a bad one.