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i am taking my 05 HCH to my mechanic tomorrow for an alignment in the hopes of getting rid of the howling when i drive. i am driving on bridgestone 381s, my second set. my first started getting loud at about 36,000 and i was told they were cupped. i got a new set, and they have considerably less miles, but are still loud. since i have work done at a tire dealer i am going to have him check them again, though he indicated last fall that he thought they also had flat spots.

i read a lot about a problem with upper control arms, but i think this was for models of the HCH II. i am not sure what more i can ask, but i wonder about safety when i am now commuting 120 miles a day on the freeway. i hate to put more money into tires, but not sure how to pursue this.

some days i think i should just run my snow tires all year. they are quieter and i honestly seem to do as well with FE on those as the bridgestones.

any ideas?

High air pressures contribute to this problem! I lowered my tire pressure to 34 and the noise subsided. Hal:)

Hi Laurie;

An alignment and even a tire balancing job are excellent ideas and I certainly would do the first in a heartbeat.


Now, here's one that always drives me bananas: Rocks !!!


Tiny rocks that get stuck in the tire's thread. This is almost a curse and it absolutely raises the noise levels. What I do is dismount the wheels and pry the rocks off as soon as they become loaded to return the tires to their silent (as new) ways again.
You may want to look at yours just in case and give it a shot at cleaning them if you can.

Manuel

thanks, manuel. i don't think these tires have ever been quiet. i bought them and had them installed for the drive across america that wayne and the others did a year ago february. when they came back, i put my snows on for the rest of the winter, and then when i switched back to the 381s they were loud. even back then the shop said they looked slightly flat in some places, which struck me as strange then, since they only had about 6000 miles on them.

as for inflation, i run them at 40PSI. that is less than i ran in my snows last winter, and they were silent compared to these. it was almost funny....when i had the snows taken off the tire dealer said now i would have a quieter car. how wrong he was.

I know what Manuel is saying about the rocks. Whenever I switch from snow tires back to summer tires or vice-versa, I spend hours removing all the little rocks from the treads so next time the tires get mounted I don't have to deal with noise from the rocks. I think if you had lots of rocks in your treads you could visually see them on inspection.

It is weird that the tires have flat spots. When you store them, do you lay them flat, or keep them upright? I wonder if storing them upright could cause a flat spot?

I had a loud noise once while driving, and my tire guy rotated the tires front-to-back. The noise mysteriously never came back.

Hi Gairwin;

Almost everyone I've met claiming to have noisy tires suffered from the same rock infestation at one point or another. The worst thing in these stories is that it does not take many rocks to make a lot of noise. :(

I store my seasonal tires horizontally in part because the TPMS sensors will remain ON when they are upright. I would not be surprised if the vertical storage of your wheels (or tires, if you dismount them) affects the overall shape and bias of the tire. Some friends of mine vehemently believe it does.

Cheers;

Have the wheel bearings checked.

Maybe its just a noisy car?

I sold an '07 HCHII today that had loud tires too, the service dept said the tires were cupped, I'll look up what this means in just a second, the customer has ordered 4 new Dunlops, going on tomorrow morning.

uneven wear :eek:

The Dunlops on our 07 cupped bad before I found out about the rear control arms. They were changed out and I put a new set of Michelin Energys on it and it was very quiet at 60 and 70 psi.

The first thing I had them check was if this was one of th ones in that range and it only came back with the brake light switch which was already done. Tomorrow it gets the tires and software updates.

Tire cupping is sometimes due to worn struts. Have the struts checked to be sure they are not leaking. Cupping can create quite a howl at highway speeds, especially on concrete surfaces.

uneven wear :eek:

i have to wonder how this could be. if these tires have 12,000 miles on them i would be surprised. they were loud last year when i put them on and they only had 6000 miles on them from the across the country race!

Tire cupping is sometimes due to worn struts. Have the struts checked to be sure they are not leaking. Cupping can create quite a howl at highway speeds, especially on concrete surfaces.

thanks, i will add that to my list to have them check.

That's what I said about this used car too, it only has 27k on it, what kind of roads do you have to travel for a car with a fully inspected suspension to do this?

That's what I said about this used car too, it only has 27k on it, what kind of roads do you have to travel for a car with a fully inspected suspension to do this?

yikes, only 27,000. mine is close to 90,000. i suppose something could be going wrong with the car, but this is a continuing pattern with the 381s. my last set barely lasted 36,000 miles.

My shop doesn't offer the bridges as replacements only Dunlops and Michelins, maybe its more than them not wanting to stock 3 tires for the same car?

You have to check the cup with a tread depth gauge. True cupping is almost always a sign of belt slippage. Flat spots are a sign of struts, balance or alignment.

When my Civic EX cupped its tires it was very clear the steel belt had slipped from the inside edge of the tire twords the middle of the tire due to the extreme camber issue and one bad spring.

Honda would not admit to the camber problem. They did replace the spring. So I had my brother make me new adjustable links to repair the issue. I reset up the rear end myself. Problem gone.

I also found the rear wheel bearing issue during my normal maint. long before Honda admitted to the problem. Not wanting to go to a Honda dealer yet again. I just ordered the bearings and installed them my self. When Honda did admit to the possible rear bearing issue and camber problem I had already traded my Civic off.

One thing I don't like and wont do is setup or have a car setup with no toe. Sure it helps with rolling resistance. I want my tie rods and other components to have a slight load on them. Thus reducing some vibration and harmonics setting up in the components and causing early wear.

and the answer is: rear wheel bearing. that plus an alignment and related costs is going to be $289.

Well, at least that should last a bit longer than a set of tires.

Are the tires salvageable?

Well, at least that should last a bit longer than a set of tires.

Are the tires salvageable?

yes. it sounds like he thinks the bearing is making the noise. the tires only have about 12,000 miles on them. if you remember, you put them on for their virgin trip in february of 08. when they came back the snows went on until april, and i used the snows also last winter.

Which bearing?

The rear's should be easy to replace. The fronts a slight chore.

Laurie,
I'm a newbie, but have been lurking around a while while I was researching my latest purchase a one-owner 2004 HCH-I 5MT. I've had it about 2 months and just love it so far.
It came with Mich Harmony's and they seem ok. I am thinking about bridgestone 381s for the next set. Given your experience with 2 sets of 381s and the noisy issues, etc, do you recommend them at this point? And a related question, did the new wheel bearing take care of the noisy problem? I had a wheel bearing go out on my 88 Acura Integra at 260,000 miles so I know what your talking about in terms of the loud and noisy sounds. I commute about 85 miles a day mostly freeway and secondary highways in fairly flat central ohio.

BTW on another note, I saw a post of yours a while back about synthetic transmission oil. I've researched that a bit and am considering Redline synthetic MTL. This is a 75 ish rated weight synthetic that is said to have the viscosity of a 30 weight oil. It is recommended for sync transmissions and the redline site mentions Hondas and BMWs as examples for this oil. Redline also sells some lightweight shock-resistant oils designed for racing (first saw it at JEGs) with even lower friction characteristics, but those are not recommended for sync transmisions. Ive used synthetic trans oils in several of my MT cars and it really seems to help especially in the winter when regular trans oils get so thick.
Ed

hi, ed. i will try to answer your questions the best i can........

i am rather on the fence about the 381s. they came on the car, and were great for low rolling resistance, but not good for winter. i put on snows then, though that didn't lower my FE as much as one would expect.

they began making noise at about 36,000 miles. my shop said they were cupped and wearing. i thought that was kind of a short life. i got a new pair last year in the spring, and that's what i am now. they were being discontinued, from what i understand, though i think can still be found online. i know that tire makers are selling more tires now with low rolling resistance, so perhaps someone else can chime in with some suggestions.

as for oil, i run what i think is mobil synthetic (i don't directly remember the brand). honda recommends, and i run, 0W20 all year, and have not had a problem with it. i think a 30 weight would be overkill, especially with a 5 speed.

hopefully others will give you some input here.

I have not seen any other wear complaints concerning B381s -- though they definitely aren't going to offer the best traction in winter. (Neither do my RE92s, but I leave 'em on anyway ;)).

I really couldn't tell you about the transmission oil -- I tend to stick with manufacturer recommended fluids.

Laurie,
Thanks for the info. I plan to have a set of winter tires as well so therfore, I was thinking I might be able to get away with the 381s poor traction on wet roads since I'll remove them in the winter. I've heard many negative comments about the 381s (except for the FE they provide) so I am also on the fence as well. The Mich Harmony's I've got are fairly quite at 44-50 psi, handle ok, and are giving decent FE (50-58 mpg depending on mix of city/highway).
I also run Mobil 1 (0-20) in my engine. I am considering the Redine MTL synthetic oil for my manal transmission.

HCH-1 owners unite!
Ed