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President Barack Obama (http://www.reuters.com/news/globalcoverage/barackobama)'s assistant on energy and climate change said on Tuesday she did not know how a tough White House plan to raise the fuel economy of the U.S. car fleet would affect the ethanol industry.

Rest of story
(http://www.reuters.com/article/ousivMolt/idUSTRE54I62620090519)
Guess this means E85 vehicles don't get a break over E0 vehicles.

If this promotes more sensible use of biofuels, this is another benefit.

Guess this means E85 vehicles don't get a break over E0 vehicles.

While I am a supporter of FFVs, I am happy to see that.

They never should have gotten a break to begin with.

So when do we get to E100? I think that'd be an interesting day: fillup for the car, and a jug of stuff more potent than Everclear for me.

Does 2 things. 1- Shows how people making these decisions are not qualified, are not engineers, or smart. 2- Good ridence Corn Booze. :) MPG drop is not worth it. It's a total gimmie to the corn folks. They put corn in everything, sugar, soda, food, cat food, gasoline, jumped up moses dude... what's next, corn carpet, corn drywall, corn cement. I've had it with corn in everything we use, touch and eat. End the corn nightmare.

My question here is:

Will they be required to meet the standards while running E0 or E85?

The FFVs sold in America are set up to run best on E0, and get ~20% less FE when using E85 (which is one "reasons" E85 gets subsidies to keep the price close to 20% less, at least around here).

Give me a car that can only run on E85 (or E100) and let me get that Brazilian ethanol (better quality product since they don't use corn). I won't be able to run regular gas, but I'll get similar FE.

E85 with 105 octane can run at insanely high compressions, allowing better FE.

So when do we get to E100?
When all 50 states change their liquor laws.

Give me a car that can only run on E85 (or E100)
There is no such thing. All cars that run on ethanol can also run on gasoline. We already have cars on the market running 12 and 13 to 1 CR on 87 octane.

There is no such thing. All cars that run on ethanol can also run on gasoline. We already have cars on the market running 12 and 13 to 1 CR on 87 octane.

Ahh... but they can make one. It would have compressions of 16 or 17 to 1 though.

I got to thinking about this question a bit more. I think E85 will still be around, but only because of this:

FFVs are tested while running regular fuel. There are some minor changes that are made to make them FFV, but it doesn't change the EPA ratings.

Hi Taliesin:

___At those Compression ratios, ethanol and gasoline run into the same problem as diesels. NOx let alone the beefed up drivetrains to handle the massive ratios and torque output. Might as well just build the diesel and still receive 30% better FE.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hi Taliesin:

___At those Compression ratios, ethanol and gasoline run into the same problem as diesels. NOx let alone the beefed up drivetrains to handle the massive ratios and torque output. Might as well just build the diesel and still receive 30% better FE.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

As long as it's Bio-diesel, I'm all for it! :D

When all 50 states change their liquor laws.



really?

Looking at Wikipedia, E85 has 65% of the BTUs E0 gas has.

Could I safely say a flex-fuel pickup that gets 10mpg on straigh gas gets 6.5mpg on E85?

That sounds a little too low to me. I thought that pure ethanol had around 70% the energy of regular unleaded, which would put E85 at 75% vs. gas. So I think a safer estimate for your average light-duty truck would be something like 15-16mpg on gas, 11-12mpg on E85.

So when do we get to E100? I think that'd be an interesting day: fillup for the car, and a jug of stuff more potent than Everclear for me.

You made me thing of this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRbYkJ6h62A

Will new mandates kill E85?

We can only hope so.

really?
Mixing 15% gasoline with ethanol circumvents state liquor laws. If there was no gasoline in it, states would claim that the ethanol could be consumed by people in one way or another and therefore needs to be taxed like liquor. You wouldn't be able to sell it in dry counties or towns and in some states it would only be available at your local state run liquor store. Not to mention the 21 and over ID issue. Mixing 15% gasoline is an easy way to circumvent a lot of potential problems.

Looking at Wikipedia, E85 has 65% of the BTUs E0 gas has.

Could I safely say a flex-fuel pickup that gets 10mpg on straigh gas gets 6.5mpg on E85?

That sounds a little too low to me. I thought that pure ethanol had around 70% the energy of regular unleaded, which would put E85 at 75% vs. gas. So I think a safer estimate for your average light-duty truck would be something like 15-16mpg on gas, 11-12mpg on E85.

2009 Chevy Malibu Flex-Fuel
Gas: 19/29
E85: 14/22
26% lower city, 24% lower highway
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2008car1tablef.jsp?id=29664

I think Brick's numbers are right. I checked a couple others and the numbers were similar. Incidentally, this extrapolates to a 3% reduction from E10 fuel.

Looking at Wikipedia, E85 has 65% of the BTUs E0 gas has.

Could I safely say a flex-fuel pickup that gets 10mpg on straigh gas gets 6.5mpg on E85?

Not quite, but not too far off. I haven't hypermiled my Ram yet (just haven't been driving it), but what I used to get:
15 on gas
12 on E85

20% loss

However, when towing the 4K# boat combo:
10 on gas
10 on E85 (less pumping losses maybe?)