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http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/Japanese_Flag_30x22.jpg The Honda vehicle has a starting price of $19,800. (http://www.newsoxy.com/honda-hybrid/insight/article11915.html)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Eco_Assist_System_News_Headline.jpgKara Gilmour - NewsOXY (http://www.newsoxy.com) - May 18, 2009

Nice car with quite a bit of potential, but it is just too expensive. :( --Ed.

The 2010 Honda Insight Hybrid comes with a dash mounted Efficiency Booster to assist with better fuel economy. The Honda Hybrid gets up to 43 miles per gallon on the highway while reducing carbon emission.

American Honda Motor Co., Inc offers many features to help drivers to get the best fuel efficiency for their Honda Hybrids. One feature is called the ECON, known as the Efficiency Booster, which will minimize the overall energy use while delivering maximum fuel economy. The 2010 Honda Insight is equipped with an ECON button which is mounted on its dashboard.

The Eco Assist, known as the ECON button, is a feedback system for the driver. It will inform the driver of bad habits which relate to lower fuel efficiency. Some of the bad driving habits include immediate braking and strong acceleration which consumes more gas.

ECON is to help and inform drivers on how to achieve the highest MPG rating. The Honda Hybrid is one of the most fuel-efficient automobiles on the market. It also offers 5 doors and seats up to... http://www.newsoxy.com/honda-hybrid/insight/article11915.html

I've been pleased thus far with my Insight but the cost argument could be a valid issue for some. One thing I must say about Honda is that their refusal to offer rebates could backfire in some instances. For example, almost every major manufacturer, Toyota included, offers rebates to new college grads. Both my wife and myself are recent college grads after a trip back to the books to get second degrees and start new careers, and Honda had nothing to offer us but financing that wasn't really a "deal" at all, geared primarily toward those will little or no credit but strong potential (like new grads on their first jobs, the few who didn't have 5 or 6 credit cards by the time they graduated college).

Toyota offered us $400, and an extra $1,000 on a new Prius, which did begin to look attractive when our Insight was MIA for awhile. I could have still gotten a $400 rebate on a new 2010 Prius when they were finally released.

If Honda is targeting the Insight as a hybrid for everyone, why not provide a more attractive incentive(s) to get more new grads and others, who have lower but growing incomes and will be buying cars in the future.

Too expensive? You guys are killing me.

For $20k this car is a bargain. And it is real and accessible at a dealership. Have you called your local Ford dealer lately to price a Fusion Hybrid?

nf

Not that it's too expensive, but unfortunately, for those on a budget or with little car-buying experience, bottom line price rules. Take my wife, for example, with her craptacular 2002 Cavalier she bought straight out of school. Three years later she regretted that she had not bought a Jetta or a Civic, but she was young and didn't know much about car buying, and went with the nicest car at the best price (minus the excessive maintenance costs over the 4 years/65K miles of ownership, of course).

Just an observation. I feel like my Insight will be a good investment over time despite the lack of negotiating power I had when buying it.

Let me expand on the too expensive comment.

Based on build quality and the actual components put into the vehicle, it is lower quality in many respects than the Fit (upon which it is based), has less passenger volume than the Fit, and is missing the extra VTEC mode that makes the HCH so efficient at highway speeds. The lower geared CVT (as compared to the HCH) is also hurting it in that department.

To be clear, the new Insight is a fine and quite capable machine. However, it should be priced at $17,800 instead of $19,800 because of actual content and quality. If it was at that price, Honda would be selling large numbers of the model. I believe this is the reason they've only sold a bit over 4,000 since introduction here in the US... FAR below what Honda expected in terms of volume.

Simply put, the car is excellent but overpriced for what it is.

I see your points. I was also initially disappointed with the price after all the rumors.

However, speaking of bottom line, it's $4000 less than the HCH. That's no small amount. And I believe RLC, you paid the same $20k for for less tech with less doors EIGHT years ago.

It's more expensive than we'd like, but it's the cheapest 50-mpg-car you can buy. "Too expensive" is not a desciptor I'd apply to the new Insight. It defeats the argument that "hybrids aren't worth the cost". Let's at least give it that credit.

Cheers, nf

It is definitely not too expensive in absolute terms for a hybrid -- simply more expensive than the content warrants (IMHO).

As for my car... I bought it last year. ;)

It is definitely not too expensive in absolute terms for a hybrid -- simply more expensive than the content warrants (IMHO).

As for my car... I bought it last year. ;)


I knew that was coming. Touché :)

Hi Noflash:

___This one is a touchy one as I applaud Honda for bringing us the Insight-II hybrid for everyone. It really is not a hybrid for everyone however. It is a hybrid for a young single, younger couple with no kids or older couples with no kids given the back seats are simply to cramped for anyone but a pre-teen or younger.

___Regarding the Fusion Hybrid, they can be had for a little over $25K. Have you tried pricing a similarly equipped Camry or Accord lately? The Insight-II weighs almost 1,000 pounds less than the Fusion hybrid and is a sub-compact, not a mid-sized sedan. This is irrelevant for a lower income first time buyer of course but that buyer should not be looking at a true mid-sized and far more costly Fusion Hybrid, Accord or Camry either...

___The crux is the comparison between the $15,500 Fit with an AT and the $19,800 Insight LX. IMA was and is supposed to be far less expensive today (< $1,500 for all-in inclusion) than 10 years ago. When you see the actual components from pack to MGSet compared to previous generations IMA system, you know Honda has reduced costs for hybridization significantly but failed to pass on those savings to the consumer in the form of a truly affordable Hybrid.

___With gasoline at $4.00 per, Honda will sell everyone they can make but that is not to say it is a “value” proposition. At $2.50 per, Honda is having a lot of trouble gaining traction with the $20,000 + Subcompact Hybrid and rightfully so when the Fit costs so much less albeit with the trade off of performance for FE. The Insight is an excellent automobile for its intended market but appears to be about $2,500 over priced given what we know it includes, what it actually costs and what it is actually capable of.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hi Wayne,

I just wrote a long response and fat-fingered it -- ugh, karma?

To summarize, a base Fit with A/T is $16,348 and a different car.

Camry and Fusion Hybrids are going for $30k, the Insight for $20k.

I'm shocked to hear you complain the Insight is too small and too light, when I thought one of the main mantras of the website is that we are all driving bigger vehicles than we need.

Again, the Insight is the answer to the complaint that hybrids aren't worth the added cost -- something the Fusion is NOT.

Cheers, nf

There's a difference between driving a vehicle that's too big, and designing a vehicle so poorly as to be almost inexcusable.

The 2010 Insight is almost perfect for my needs. I'm an up and coming yuppie with a growing salary who needs a decent car at a low price.


HOWEVER

I have two kids. Sure they'll fit in the back now, in car seats, but when they get older it'll get tight. What if I drop off the kids and have 4 adults? The back seat is miserable for me to sit in at 6' 0." I can't imagine my brother in law at 6'2" and 230 lbs being comfortable with his head on crooked just to fit in the car.

There's a difference between driving a vehicle that's too big, and designing a vehicle so poorly as to be almost inexcusable.

The 2010 Insight is almost perfect for my needs. I'm an up and coming yuppie with a growing salary who needs a decent car at a low price.


HOWEVER

I have two kids. Sure they'll fit in the back now, in car seats, but when they get older it'll get tight. What if I drop off the kids and have 4 adults? The back seat is miserable for me to sit in at 6' 0." I can't imagine my brother in law at 6'2" and 230 lbs being comfortable with his head on crooked just to fit in the car.

If you're asking me, I like the '05 Sienna for 2 kids and some small safe Honda as a second car.

I put 4 adults in my Civic almost weekly, but anyone over 6' sits up front.

nf

Hi NoFlash:

___I am not deriding the Insight-II’s lightweight and small stature by any means. I only mentioned the weight because you compared the sub-compact Insight II to the much larger mid-sized Ford Fusion Hybrid let alone I do not believe the Insight-II can touch 80 + mpg over a tank let alone a long segment. If you had the choice between the two for free, you would take the FFH without question for many reasons but mainly becasue the 2010 Honda Insight-II is not in the same league as the FFH nor was it intended to be.

___The Fit with an AT is $15,550 vs. the Insight LX at $19,800. Add S&H to each and you are looking at $16,220 vs. $20,470.

___Finally, we can all “fit” into the back seats of the Fit. Not many of us can “fit” into the back seat of the Insight-II yet the $4,000 premium is there :(

___I have the feeling that the Japanese managers saw the large initial demand in Japan and thought it would carry over here in the US. As you can tell by the monthly sales numbers, it is not doing well and there are only three reasons why. Price, Price and Price.

___$17,500 for the 2010 Honda Insight-II gives Honda the same profit as the Fit. At that price, the Insight-II's would literally be flying off the lots! At $20K plus, they are sitting on lots all over the country not going anywhere which hurts us all in the longer term :ccry:

___All said, we really need 100's of thousands of Insight-II's on our roadways because they are that darn good but the slightly high up front costs are what is keeping that from happening :(

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Wayne, we basically agree. I just think we've been asking for this car for awhile and when we get 95% of what we asked for we shouldn't typecast the car as "too expensive". That's not it's biggest feature.

What got my goat was the "Nice car with quite a bit of potential, but it is just too expensive. --Ed." for the Insight article, followed by the "It is great to see this tech come within reach of more mainstream consumers! --Ed." for the Prius article.

I'm just sick of bashing what is the least expensive new 50-mpg hybrid you can buy.

Cheers, nf

Interesting you should take it that way, NoFlash. The comment on the Prius article was penned with things such as the solar roof, LED headlamps, LKA, intelligent parking, etc in mind as these (if available at all) have previously only been on quite expensive luxury vehicles. I've already stated the reasons behind the cost statement, and I still don't understand why you want to turn it into a more generic statement than it was intended to be.

Just to be absolutely clear, I think those who have bought it made a wise decision purchasing the Insight -- it is a solid and capable vehicle and I believe it will serve those people well for many years to come. Congratulations to them! Now I just wish that Honda had priced it more in line with what engineering, construction, and materials indicate it should have been so that many more people could also be happy owners. It is crazy to see that Honda has been selling the HCH-II for less than the new Insight recently (check out the thread that Kacey has been running here (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18873)). That's a strong indicator right there as there is no product refresh scheduled for the near future.

Let me expand on the too expensive comment.

Based on build quality and the actual components put into the vehicle, it is lower quality in many respects than the Fit (upon which it is based), has less passenger volume than the Fit, and is missing the extra VTEC mode that makes the HCH so efficient at highway speeds. The lower geared CVT (as compared to the HCH) is also hurting it in that department.

To be clear, the new Insight is a fine and quite capable machine. However, it should be priced at $17,800 instead of $19,800 because of actual content and quality. If it was at that price, Honda would be selling large numbers of the model. I believe this is the reason they've only sold a bit over 4,000 since introduction here in the US... FAR below what Honda expected in terms of volume.

Simply put, the car is excellent but overpriced for what it is.

Fit? I thought it was based off the City platform (which may be the same as the Fit/Jazz, I don't know). I knew about the 2 mode VTEC, which does show at moderate-high speed, but I didn't know about the CVT gearing. That explains why it has more pep and performs better at lower speeds. Perhaps a compromise to offset the HCH's notorious weak FE in city driving?

I haven't found too many issues with build quality (other than a shallow dent, high up in the side when they delivered it :mad:) but I haven't owned that many Hondas and I knew what I wanted when I bought them. Hence, I didn't test drive a range of vehicles.

I wholly agree with the missed price point, however. Whether Honda was overzealous because of high initial sales in Japan, or just wanted to make a buck since the Prius was expected to be at a higher price point, in up for debate. They did totally shoot the moon on pricing, and since Honda doesn't believe in rebates, I wonder how they'll move them.
I just hope they don't pull and iphone-like stunt and drop the price right away.

On the + side, I still managed to get 56 mpg in around town and moderate speed (45 mph) driving yesterday!

In Ontario the all in prices for an AT Fit with A/C is 21k, the new Insight is 28 and the HCH is 32k. A Yaris with AT and A/C is 19k.

I just don't think any hybrid is comparable to a economy car at the moment.

Like noflash said; this car is 95% of what people wanted. For those who want an I II it's not like it's a bad car, but in the opinion of many you can do better.

Whoa, those prices are somewhat steep in Ontario are they not?

I guess you must be including the taxes and all, so that would make sense.

One thing to add though, is that in several provinces you get some money back from the provincial government on the purchase of a hybrid ($2,000 in mine and a few others in Canada).
It is not the same as it was when the feds added another 2k but the provincial incentive alone does seem to help some people decide especially when they consider only the fully optioned models. If not looking at fully loaded cars then the base Insight may look more attractive when factoring the provincial rebates and other less visible benefits.

One thing that remains very interesting:
In my province the Insight will cost about the same to insure as the Prius. Together with the HCH-II these cars are cheaper to insure than any gas-only Civic and FIT. In my case, it costs me almost $200 more insure a non-hybrid model on an annual basis. Hummm....

Cheers;

MSantos