Archives

Hi Guys,
I know that several of you are waiting for MIMA with a plug in install. I am guilty of being distracted by many other things, and have not been doing my homework. Thanks to some help from one of the guys that wants a system, we are making some progress, and hope to know the final scoop in the near future. I will still have to develop techniques for efficiently building the plug in harness, and will need to order some inventory of the connectors, but it seems that the AmpMULTILOCK connectors are available.
I will use this thread to keep you posted on this huge improvement to the system. No more worries about miswiring or soldering, or opening harnesses. Want to remove the system for any reason, and it should only take an hour.;)

any chance they will work on all hondas, or are they too diferent?

Further explanation of exactly what this is and what does it do. For those of us less informed individuals.

Terry (tiger)

Tiger,

The computer on your Honda determines when the Assist helps out the ICE and when the battery pack is charged. Understandbly, Honda set this very cautiously. MIMA allows the driver to control this. Used carefully, it can significantly increase FE. Not for those with "the need to speed".

Question answered?

Tiger,

The computer on your Honda determines when the Assist helps out the ICE and when the battery pack is charged. Understandbly, Honda set this very cautiously. MIMA allows the driver to control this. Used carefully, it can significantly increase FE. Not for those with "the need to speed".

Question answered?

Chuck, Interesting. :)

Terry (tiger)

Tom
There is a chance that a system like MIMA can be developed for all hybrids, but each would involve a unique system since the newer cars use serial communication to pass commands between the involved control modules. It is possible that I will get a Civic hybrid to play with in which case I will try my hand at developing a MIMA for the civic.
tigerhonaker
The best way to understand what MIMA is , and how it works is to read about some users experience with the system.
http://www.99mpg.com/mima/people/
a discription is also available at:
http://www.99mpg.com/mima/faq/#whatismima
A more detailed discription of the operation and calibration:
http://www.99mpg.com/mima/operation/
Delta Flyer
Actually MIMA has a "dark" side.
The max assist in a stock Insight is 100A, after 3-5 seconds it drops back to 50A.
With MIMA, one can keep the assist at 100A as long as charge remains in the NIMH pack.
This translates into faster acceleration and 0-60 times, but not necessarily better MPG.
I just got an e-mail from Paul Andrews in the UK. He races his CVT insight, and will be installing a MIMA shortly. They will do a performance dataloging before and after MIMA, to get some hard numbers on the MIMA performance difference.
A photo of his car is at the bottom of the users page in the first link in this post.

http://www.99mpg.com/people/paulandrewsfirstuk/paulandrewscvtracer.jpg,0;)

I'm a programmer. If I use machine language, it's faster and more efficient than a high-level, easier-to-understand language. You gain speed and control, but must keep track of more stuff. There are less safeguards - more can go wrong.

MIMA is like a machine language - it's great in the right hands. For a hypermiler that is aware of what the road conditions ahead are, the state of the ICE and Assist, MIMA can be a definite plus. Today, I could be a good candidate.

Six years ago, my agressive driving would make me a bad candidate for MIMA. I drove my Insight at least 10mph over the speed limit (i.e. 70-75mph) and had occasional recals (racing :o ) The way I was driving, MIMA would have made things worse. Because a lot of drivers do like I did back then, the best match for them would be a hybrid with an automatic or no hybrid at all.

MIMA is designed for drivers that have a light foot - full throttle drivers need not apply (except maybe Paul Andrews ;) ). It' not hard to use - just oriented towards a type of driving style....

Delta Flyer
Interesting anology.
As an assembly language programmer, you may enjoy downloading the MIMA source code and looking it over, maybe you can dig in and help when you get your system.;)
http://www.99mpg.com/resources/downloads/software/mimaosv1.5.3.asm
I don't quite agree with your apraisal as to
"MIMA is designed for drivers that have a light foot - full throttle drivers need not apply."

MIMA was designed to give the driver control of assist and regen to use as he sees fit.

Accelerating onto an expressway, where maximum acceleration is desired, is much improved by the full assist that MIMA can provide. Not all MIMA drivers are hypermilers, Yves, Paul Andrews, and I could fall into the dark side users group. MIMA allows accelerating up a steep hill in 5th gear at 90 MPH cannot be done without downshifting without it.
MIMA increases the fun factor for all types of driving.:cool: :) ;)

Mike,

Maybe I should have said "fast and reckless".

Attempting to say your typical aggressive driver is a bad fit, mostly brecause they are not paying attention to the resources their car is using.

I don't think it's hard at all to be a pro-active, alert driver. I'm just attempting to say this is the mindset needed to use MIMA (or hybrids in general).

The only thing I intended to knock is inattentive drivers, not MIMA..

Hope this clarified....

Chuck,
No arguments about drivers that are not aware being a bad fit with MIMA.
MIMA throws battery SOC management, squarely into the drivers hands, and sucking the amps for a fun blastoff will be accompanied by the need to replenish that charge, or run out of juice. The MIMA difference is that you do not have to suffer from forced charge once the pack is low, you can turn off the charging until you need to slowdown, where you can get full regen, to replace it faster and take better advantage of each stop or speed change. I can get 2-3 bars of charge on a single off ramp.
Just another thing for the aware driver to pay attention to.
The boost battery lets you drive like a racer, and not have to pay for the recharge with MPG, thus the ability to get > 100MPG at highway speeds.
For the guys that like the MPG video game, it is a great tool, For the racers, it is a fun tool, but be careful that the MIMA grin does not lead to the lead finger syndrome.
;)

Chuck,
No arguments about drivers that are not aware being a bad fit with MIMA.
MIMA throws battery SOC management, squarely into the drivers hands, and sucking the amps for a fun blastoff will be accompanied by the need to replenish that charge, or run out of juice. The MIMA difference is that you do not have to suffer from forced charge once the pack is low, you can turn off the charging until you need to slowdown, where you can get full regen, to replace it faster and take better advantage of each stop or speed change. I can get 2-3 bars of charge on a single off ramp.
Just another thing for the aware driver to pay attention to.
The boost battery lets you drive like a racer, and not have to pay for the recharge with MPG, thus the ability to get > 100MPG at highway speeds.
For the guys that like the MPG video game, it is a great tool, For the racers, it is a fun tool, but be careful that the MIMA grin does not lead to the lead finger syndrome.
;)

Hi Mike,

Very interesting and I can tell you if I had purchased the 2006 Insight I would be all over top of this. Sounds very interesting to me. :woot:

Terry (tiger)

I have some preliminary prices and availabilities for some of the connectors and pins.
The minimum quantities are quite a bit higher than I had hoped for.
The pins need to be ordered in 20-24,000 quantities
The connectors need to be ordered in 600-1200 quantities.
What would help me right now is to get some feedback as to the number of people that would get the system if the plug in harness was available.
Based on the quote I have so far, a $100 premium on the regular built system price should cover the needed connectors and pins plus some labor to do the fabrication. I am probably too low on the labor, but will stick to that price.
Now if all the interested people could PM me with a simple "I will get a system" , I can decide how to proceed with the connector purchace.
I should have some samples in my hand by the weekend.;)

:Banane17: Count me in Mike! I"ll get a kit. I know it will help with my commute as sometimes I'm charging when going uphill! Not helpful to increasing my lifetime milage.I'm glad your making progress on your mima kit. Hey ,Mike, what is pima? anyhow count me in. Arturo

Arturo
Pima: Programmable Manual Integrated Motor Assist
lets you drive the car with the throttle just like the standard IMA control, with the big diference that you can set the MPG at which Assist starts to activate, as well as the MPG where regen will start.
I will add your desire to get one to the list.
Mike

This only works on the insight right now right? No one has check it out on an HCH I or HCH II or HAH?

I think it's only been installed on Insights

Correct.
Insight and Insight CVT only.

One reason that I was able to get MIMA to the present state of development was that I was out of work for nearly the last two years, and I owned an Insight which I really wanted to modify in this way.
I now have some work, and things are getting busier. I can not design a system without a car to test it on, so unless I get my hands on a HCH it is very unlikely that a version of MIMA will ever be developed for it.
The Insight may be the only car that will ever have a manual hybrid drive (MIMA). Now that it is being discontinued, we may be stuck with what the car makers want to offer. Automatic transmissions and automatic hybrid mix, take it or leave it. Until cars can see, know where they are, and adjust the hybrid mix for the terrain and traffic, an aware human will always do better.
Same with P&G. If turning off the gas for 75% of the time can save lots of gas, why not make the car operate that way automatically. The on to off dutycycle could be much faster so you don't have to change speed. Maybe it could work like the hit or miss engines we see at antique motor shows. Fire the cylinders for one power cycle, close the valves, turn them off for the next three? Just thinking out loud, crazy idea # 25 for the day.:rolleyes: ;)

Correct.
Insight and Insight CVT only.

Insight CVT? For some reason I thought it was not available for CVT.
I learn something new every day.

Eric
JoeCVT has had his home built MIMA system operating for well over a year on his CVT, and Paul Andrews in the UK will be installing a full system on his racing CVT in the next few weeks. I have been cautioning people with CVT's,about MIMA, mainly for lack of experience, but electrically the part of the car that MIMA connects to is the same on both.
I drove JoeCVT's car with MIMA, everything worked as expected.

I got the first samples on the amp connectors, and they are indeed the correct ones. Now I need to define the other part numbers, and see if I can purchace them in reasonable quantities. If that works out, we will be good to go on the plug in harness.:woot: :)
Will keep you informed. ;)

Hi Mike,

Just curious: how do you plan to handle the mating receptacle? Looks like it is right-angle for PCB mount.

Hi Brett
The pins are tightly molded into the module connector shell, then they take a right angle to connect to the pc board. I was planing to cut the pins as they came out of the shell,probably about 1/4 inch from the shell back, then I will populate the individual connectors with the pins,with crimped on wires. Then solder the wire ends to the connector pin stubs. The taps for MIMA would be made to the wires, then epoxy putty would be used to hold the individual connectors and the module shell at the proper spacing, as well as acting as a strain relief for the MIMA harness wiring. I will use another module shell to hold the connectors as the epoxy sets up. Because of the difficulty in releasing the 4 connectors(MCM) I will probably cut off the latching part of the connectors, except for one or two so the assembly can be easily removed.
The other option would be to make a PC board, solder the module shell to the board, then make the connector connections to the PC card?
Either way it will be a lot of hand labor.

:eek:

Yep, those are the options that came to mind......

Finally got the ECM and harness from the rolled Insight, so I should be able to get the connector part numbers next week, and start ordering some samples so I can build a few of these. I have a few people ready to try them out.
;)

WOW has it been six months or more since I sold a MIMA system?

I finally have a plug in solution that does not cost a fortune, and does not involve a lot of costly difficult to get connectors.
While not as elagant as a simple male female connector plug in, is a vast improvement over ripping harnesses apart and soldering, and it has the ability to be totally removed or installed in less that an hour (actual time to be determined).
Because of the additional labor and materials in harness prep, the cost increase for the built a MIMA systems will be $50. The kit will come with a built harness, so that price will increase $75

A quick collage showing the basic principal is up at:
http://www.99mpg.com/buymima/

I will e-mail everyone on the waiting list once I have the documentation and first test install under my belt hopefully by mid April.
:woot: :cool: ;)

MIMA fans
A couple of local guys will come up This Saturday the 21st. for the first MIMA installs with the new harness. Anyone local that wants to drop over is welcome.:woot:

The Saturday install was the first full install using the new technique. We ran into a few issues, but got the system installed. The BCM connector uses different pins than the MCM and ECM, so that was nearly a show stopper. Identified and was able to order the correct pins, and did another install on Thursday.
Jarrod Huntly lives in Southern California, and decided he wanted to get a car that got the best MPG possible. He searched the net, and found out about the Insight. He further searched, and found MIMA. He called me and explained that he would be flying to PA to pick up the silver 2000 Insight last Wed., and wanted to drive here and install MIMA before driving cross country. I wanted to do another install or two here before finalizing the new plug in install, so it was a good fit.
This install went better than the first, but I still found several things that I will improve. The new pin tools worked very well, so I will stick with that.

The new install instructions will be located here:
http://www.99mpg.com/mima/pluginmimainstalat/

Jarrod is learning to drive the car and MIMA as he heads back home, so I will be interested in his report once he gets back.

It seems that the high price of gas has caused a lot of people to buy up every used Insight they can find. As soon as they drive the car, they start looking for ways to make it better. After reading and trying the hypermiler techniques, it seems that many of them quickly decide that MIMA is worth a try. I sent a notice to all of the people that have expresed an intrest in MIMA, to send in their Legal forms, and as of yesterday I find my self with a backlog of 10-15 systems. I am looking into having the boards and harnesses made by a local contract manufacturer, so I can fill the orders ASAP. When the orders are filled, there will be over 50 MIMA systems on the road.
If anyone on this forum is interested, it would be wise to get your forms to me so you can be put on the list and assigned a number.
Thanks to all.
;)

Had another test install today, it went very well. The pin tools worked perfectly, the documentation was easy to use. We started at 9AM, went to a one hour lunch, and the guy was on the road home by 3:30. This was with a rough epoxy mount for two joysticks and the display. :Banane32: it works.

Cool! It's great to hear that these are going well for evryone Mike! Keep up the good work.

Oh... and here's another dancing bannana for ya'.:Banane32:

The 20 built systems, and 4 kits will be ready soon. A few small harness changes,and I will be ready to build the remaining harnesses, and send out systems.
This uses up my MIMA boards, and without a backlog, this could be the last. There are about 10 more people that have sent in forms, and many more that have indicated an intrest, that have not sent in the forms. Once these systems are gone, I will be faced with a large expenditure to get more, and the inventory to build them. I will not go down that road unless I have a sufficient backlog, so the future of MIMA is up to you.
I am just a crazy guy working out of his basement to produce these systems, so if you want me to continue, the time to show your support is now.
;)
http://www.99mpg.com/mima/buymima/

but mike, i only have one insight!!!

Boy yo gius make me want to go buy a used insight just so I can get one of these neat systems. I have the first Nissan Altima Hybrid in Arizona and I would also love to have on for it. I am currently trying to add a plug to it.

Anyone with an Insight should **seriously** consider adding MIMA. Mine has made getting good mpg's so much easier, and I'm still learning how to use it. I strongly recommend getting the FAS option with it. It's so much easier than key-off/on FAS, and the engine fires right up when you put it back into gear. It's also safer because the engine will automatically restart if the brake vac drops too low. So now I FAS on short stretches that would have been too much trouble previously.

The other key is that MIMA enables you to dial in assist to keep the mpg from dropping too low on a hill, and dial in regen on downhills that aren't quite steep enough to merit FAS.

MPG is improving too: 94.0mpg on my commute Sunday, and then 94.4mpg on the same run yesterday, despite taking a hit from having to go to the 6th level of the parking garage to find a space. That was annoying, so on the way home I tried everything I could and it worked.

Update: this morning on my way to work I noticed that things seemed to be going amazingly well. Today's average from home was up to 91mpg after only 5 exits on I-95. Turns out there was a strong tailwind. I pulled out ALL the stops and hit 101.0 mpg average as I pulled into New Haven and stopped at the light that always traps me. I was cheering. Then I lucked out and found a spot on the third level of the parking garage, so it's parked at 98.7mpg, WOW!!! [Where are the dancing bananas when I need them??]

MIMA has changed my life. :D I've been getting between 74 and 82 mpg on my 15 mile commute through downtown, no highway. There are over a dozen stoplights and at least 2 stop signs. I call my driving style mild hypermiling because I mostly go with the flow of traffic. I rarely use MIMA for extra assist, but use it to disable background charging, coasting in gear without regen (fuel cut) and selectively charging when appropriate. I don't have a FAS system installed yet.

A combination of mode 1 and mode 2 (PIMA) lets me get 80+ mpg at 60 mph. I'm in total control of the car. I don't know what I'd do without it. I've never been in love with a car before. ;)

Thanks for the feedback guys.
MIMA really works, and people seem ready to drive a long way to get it.

Had a guy from Ca fly to PA to buy a used Insight. He drove here, installed MIMA, and headed back to CA. Thanks Jarrod

Another guy drove from IN, did the install, and drove back home. Thanks Jason

Last wed, a state senator from Northridge CA drove cross country in his Insight instead of flying, so he could squeeze in a MIMA install. He reported at least 15% improvement on his return trip, even though he was driving it hard to get back. Thanks Jim

Add FAS, and you have the ultimate hypermiler vehicle.

;)

I have been glued to my MIMA building table, which used to be my pool table, for several weeks, as I try to get the first batch of new systems put together.
I want to thank everyone for their patience, the harness,displays,and FAS relay systems just take a lot of labor to construct and test.
I expect that I will be shipping the first 10 systems this week.
I will try to rewrite the install instructions by early next week.
A couple of the new system owners have sent in preliminary reports of their experiences that you may find interesting.
http://www.99mpg.com/mima/people/
;)

The paid for systems are all out the door. Need at least two built systems for Hybridfest, and hope to bring a few extra if I can get their harnesses built by then.
Still have a Kit version for the people that want to smell the solder.
People that have sent in the forms but no payment and new people that are ready to send in forms and payment are now on equal ground as far as my remaining inventory, I have notified them, and they are not ready, so if you want one of this build, better send in the forms and payment. I have one guy on the waiting list for the next build. As I said, I need at least 10 people on that list, before committing to building more, and the price will likely have to go up a fair amount to reflect the very large labor expenditure that all the details bring. I will stay with the current pricing until this build is gone.
The install instructions will be gradually changing over the next day or so as I edit them for the new install procedure. I will try to do a better job with these instructions, and make the process nearly fool proof.
Please feel free to look at what I am doing, and send me any suggestions as to how I can make the instructions better. I hope that this will be the last edit to the Install instructions so give me some feedback so I can fix stuff now.;)

Ok theMIMA install instructions are up.
http://www.99mpg.com/mima/install/installation/
If you run into problems, have suggestions, give me a call.

Mike! do you have any financing plans? ;)

I just got my insight and the idea of me not being able to get one is rather bumming me. Do you have any ready to go kits available or do I need to get on the waiting list?

The first batch of orders has been mostly filled, with one more system going out today.
Several checks are in the mail.
It looks like I have 2 kits, and ~8 built systems left. I still need to build up harnesses and displays for the remaining systems, and possibily another 6-8 FAS systems.

On the FAS systems,
MIMA is not required. a simple momentary pushbutton switch between chassis ground, and the brown FAS wire is all that is required. The system plugs into the ECM just like the main MIMA harness.
;)

If you look, I'm sure you'll see my name on one of those FAS systems.... Expect a check soon.

I just looked again, and sure enough your name was already etched in the unit.
Amazing!
;)