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http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/AmericanFlag.jpg A 9-month-old Glen Rock company, Energil, installed the Mandels' system. (http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/2009/03/homeowners_installing_geotherm.html)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Green_Home.jpgDanny Teigman - The New Jersey Business News (http://www.nj.com/business/) - Mar. 19, 2009

A great (though expensive) way to reduce a home's carbon footprint. --Ed.

When the air plunged to a bone-chilling 12 degrees earlier this month, the temperature a few hundred feet below ground remained a relatively balmy 54. It's a natural fact that should help keep the Mandel family of Teaneck comfortable in all types of weather in any season.

The Mandels are among a small number of homeowners across New Jersey who have installed geothermal heating/cooling pumps, designed to save energy and reduce costs.

Until they completed their conversion in the middle of February, the family relied on gas heat. "Our bills were extremely high from PSE&G," said Tom Mandel, 41.

The Mandels, who live in a five-bedroom, five-bath Colonial in this Bergen County township, expect to cut their gas and electric bill, which averaged about $1,000 a month, by slightly more than half. And they hope to recoup the $60,000 cost of installing the new system within 10 to 12 years.

"I think once the price comes down and there are more subsidies to do this, more people will be open to the idea," said Mandel, owner of a Saddle Brook print shop. "Bottom line is that... http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/2009/03/homeowners_installing_geotherm.html

Hate to sound so cynical, but living in a smaller house would save even more. Where I live, it gets a lot colder than 12 degrees and my monthly bills were never anywhere near $1000. Future generations are going to look back at our "McMansion" era and scratch their heads over our stupidity.

BUT, geothermal heating and cooling is an important technology that can help substantially reduce CO2 emissions. As expensive as they are, though, most applications will probably be in commercial and public buildings. (A nearby school district is examining it for their high school.)

Not to many contractors willing to tackel this technology yet how-ever. I have been tring to get a groun soarse heat pump in my home for three years, but can not find a installer! You are correct about the size of that guys house mdensch. H:(

Holy &@#%. I think I went to school with the guy who wrote this article.

Holy &@#%. I think I went to school with the guy who wrote this article.

That type of thing would certainly come in handy around here. Anybody go to school with folks at CNW, Consumer Reports, or AAA? ;)

That type of thing would certainly come in handy around here. Anybody go to school with folks at CNW, Consumer Reports, or AAA? ;)

Unfortunately not.

Just Garth Brooks.

Holy &@#%. ...

I had the same reaction, but to the money figures.

Gas and electric bill averaging $1000 a month to heat a 5 bedroom home? My all-electric 3 bedroom home is using just barely over $1000 a year when translated to national average rates. (Actual bill at Seattle rates is $600/year.) While his outside temperature of 12 is rare here, I did have a 9 degree morning this season.

$60,000 for a ground source (geothermal is a misnomer) heat pump system? Monday I had a high efficiency single-zone air source heat pump installed, $4500 before incentives. With incentives that should cover half that bill, my payback period should be similar to the system in this article. My intent is as much for reducing energy footprint as it is for saving actual money.

I need to post more details to my base thread, Pacific Northwest home heat pump incentive (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20233). Though happy with it so far, three days is too short to give a realistic review, and with the heating season winding down, a complete review won't be available until early next year.

I had the same reaction, but to the money figures...

Pretty much my reaction too.

Our worst electric bill this year (all electric house) was $267.

Mind you this is for a rather large house (4000 sq ft) with insulation that we are still working on improving.

So far this winter we have seen a couple of days hit negative temps. Winds have a big effect here too.

Its amazing what people will pay for 'efficiency'. How about adding more insulation and integrating some passive solar? We were talking about superinsulated houses (http://ecorenovator.org/forum/ecorenovations/306-shelter-passive-houses.html) on ecorenovator the other day. An architect built a 1200 sq/ft house in Illinois using this technique. During January 2003 with temps dropping to -10 she paid a whopping $35 electric bill (heat and water are electric btw). Huge elaborate systems are not needed if a house is simply built (or retrofit) correctly, and insulation is cheap. Why this kind of stuff isn't anywhere near code is beyond me.

$60,000? We have had an ECONAR open loop water to air geothermal heat pump since 1993. Since the cost of a BTU from the heat pump is about half that of LP, I think it has paid for itself. The price for the system was ~$7000 then including the duct work since, our 1900 old house did not have any. No incentives back then.

If anyone is interested in more info:

http://www.econar.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_exchange_heat_pump

http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/consumer/your_home/space_heating_cooling/index.cfm/mytopic=12640

... We have had an ECONAR open loop water to air geothermal heat pump since 1993...

Does your local government still permit new open loop installations? I don't believe my area allows any more. Closed loop lake source systems also exist, but new permits appear to be very difficult. (Not having waterfront, it doesn't matter to me.)

I lusted after closed loop ground source for years. Costs, and lack of yard space for a horizontal collector, kept it out of reach.

$60000 for the system sounds outrageous to me. I know two people who have gone geothermal in the last 5 years, both for under $20000 CAD. I believe both are closed loop systems but I'm not sure if it's a vertical or horizontal loop. And those systems have the capacity to keep an isolated farmhouse comfortable on a -40 day. Why is that system in New Jersey so much more expensive? Maybe tougher ground to drill through?

In the case of the people I know, going geothermal was completely worth it in the long run. It's similar to a hybrid car in some respects, albeit a much more expensive upgrade. The cost to run is lower compared to a conventional HVAC system, and resale is higher. Both owners are expecting the system to pay for itself over its expected lifetime.

$60000 for the system sounds outrageous to me. I know two people who have gone geothermal in the last 5 years, both for under $20000 CAD. .......

I agree. $20k is the ballpark cost I've heard--I've never costed out a specific system though. Maybe the house is really huge though?

Periodically my employer discusses getting into the geothermal business, but I recommend against it unless they can find the right personnel to run and maintain the drill rig. I've heard that it takes about two years of hands-on experience to be able to make money installing the systems.

fuzzy:

We live in a very rural area. Our township did not have much for zoning nor building permit requirements back then. I believe that now I would be required to have a discharge well to put the water back underground. For new construction I have heard of putting the tubes under the septic system since it is dug up anyway. An added benefit is the heat from the microbes. The neighborhood wildlife sure enjoy the water when everything is frozen for miles. Guess that I have the most expensive bird bath around.