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http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/AmericanFlag.jpg Insight targets entry segment as gateway to hybrid technology. (cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=193294)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/2010_Honda_Insight-II_-_Video_Launch.jpgWayne Gerdes – CleanMPG (cleanmpg.com) – Mar. 10, 2009

2010 Honda Insight-II

The all-new 2010 Honda Insight goes on-sale March 24 with a manufacturer's suggested retail price (MSRP) of $19,800 for the Insight LX, American Honda Motor Co., Inc., announced today.

The distinctively styled, five-passenger, five-door dedicated hybrid vehicle is powered by an Integrated Motor Assist™ (IMA™) system comprised of a 1.3-liter i-VTEC® gasoline engine and a 10-kilowatt electric motor that together contribute to an EPA-estimated city/highway fuel economy rating of 40/43 miles per gallon. The Insight features the Ecological Drive Assist System (Eco Assist™), an innovation that can further enhance efficient vehicle operation while providing feedback related to individual driving styles.

"The all-new Honda Insight brings the cost of entry for hybrid technology within closer reach of an entirely new car-shopping audience," said Dick Colliver, executive vice president of American Honda. "In addition to making good environmental sense, hybrid technology is now entering a new era where it can also make financial sense for a broader range of customers."

2010 Honda Insight Pricing and EPA Data

Model|MSRP|EPA City/Highway/Combined
Insight LX|$19,800|40/43/41
Insight EX|$21,300|40/43/41
Insight EX w/ NAVI|$23,100|40/43/41

A sleek exterior blends design elements from the original 2000 Insight's highly aerodynamic side profile with a front-end design similar to the hydrogen-powered FCX Clarity, a marquee environmental product for Honda. The interior offers a roomy passenger environment with a configurable rear seating and cargo area that benefits from 60/40 split fold-down seats.

Major features standard to the Insight LX include front, front-side and side-curtain airbags; an anti-lock braking system; a continuously variable automatic transmission (CVT); Eco Assist; automatic climate control; tilt and telescope steering column; manual driver's seat height adjustment; power windows; a four-speaker AM/FM audio system with CD player and auxiliary audio input for external digital music players; and much more.

A more premium version of the Insight is also available. The Insight EX, with a MSRP of $21,300, adds to the Insight LX features with Vehicle Stability Assist™ (VSA®); alloy wheels; cruise control; steering wheel-mounted paddle shifters; an upgraded audio system with six speakers; USB audio interface; a center console with armrest and storage compartment; heated side mirrors with integrated turn signals; and much more. Exclusively available on the Insight EX, the Honda Satellite-Linked Navigation System (6.5-inch screen) with voice recognition provides routing and guidance to individual addresses and more than 7 million points of interest within the continental United States. Models equipped with the navigation system also include Bluetooth® HandsFreeLink® for hands-free operation of compatible mobile telephones, along with related steering wheel-mounted controls for voice activation of navigation and hands-free telephone systems.

A 4-cylinder engine with intelligent variable valve timing and a DC brushless electric motor forms the foundation of the IMA hybrid system. The electric motor, positioned in-line between the engine and the transmission, adds power during acceleration and in certain cruising situations, and recaptures energy from the vehicle's forward momentum during braking (regenerative braking).

The Insight's IMA system has the capability to operate exclusively on electric power in certain low- to mid-speed cruising conditions. It can also provide cylinder deactivation during deceleration and an idle-stop feature when the vehicle is stationary. With a 10.6-gallon fuel tank, the Insight delivers an estimated maximum driving range exceeding 400 miles. Models for sale in California and states that have adopted the California Air Resources Board (CARB) ZEV standards receive an Advanced Technology Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle (AT-PZEV) emissions rating.

The Insight introduces Eco Assist to help drivers achieve improved real-world fuel economy. Eco Assist is a feature designed to help drivers optimize fuel efficiency for their given set of driving conditions. Pressing the ECON button can further enhance the efficiency of multiple vehicle systems: throttle control, CVT operation, idle-stop duration, air conditioning and cruise-control operation (EX only). Eco Assist also provides feedback about driving style via a 3D-appearing background within the speedometer. The background changes colors from green to blue to reflect how efficiently or inefficiently the driver is accelerating or braking (green = efficient). The driver's results are continuously tracked as fuel-economy ratings are shown per drive cycle and on a lifetime basis in the form of plant-leaf graphics that appear in the Multi-Information Display (MID). Up to five leaves can be ‘earned' as the driver demonstrates a fuel-efficient driving style. A real-time score is shown in the Eco Guide MID screen.

Standard safety features on all Insights include dual-stage, dual-threshold front airbags; front-side airbags with a passenger-side Occupant Position Detection System (OPDS); side-curtain airbag system; anti-lock brakes with electronic brake distribution (EBD); driver's and front-passenger's active head restraints and a front body designed to mitigate pedestrian injuries. All new Insights also feature Honda's Advanced Compatibility Engineering™ (ACE™) body structure, which provides improved frontal-crash compatibility between vehicles of different size and ride height.

Honda is a leader in developing cleaner, more fuel-efficient vehicle technologies, including the original Honda Insight, introduced as America's first mass-produced hybrid car in December 1999. Honda is also a leader in the development of advanced alternatives to gasoline, including the zero-emission, hydrogen-powered FCX Clarity fuel-cell car, the world's most advanced production fuel-cell automobile.

Source Doc: Honda

Glad they met their price goal of under $20,000. It would have been great if they could have made a more economically friendly number like $18,900. I guess it is better than $19,999.99 though. With destination charges tacked on and DOC fees, It is still going to keep a lot of people with a $20,000 limit out of a hybrid. Now it will be interesting to see what dealers do to the price.

Discount?
MSRP?
Mark-up?
We will see if the pre-order numbers will stay up or people cancel.

I just talked to our local dealer and informed them of the price! They had not seen the doc. MSRP is what they want with out a mark up. If you don't put a deposit on one, it will have mudflaps and a pinstripe.

It will be interesting to see what the new Prius comes in at.

This is disappointing. That is priced way to high in my opinion. I won't be buying now.

Hi All:

___I see some possible discounting in the Insight-II's future... I have to go in a few minutes but the Insight-II is built upon the Fit/City platform (at least we nailed that guess over a year ago) and feature for feature, the Insight-II LX matches the Base Fit other than the Fit has a much higher performance 1.5L engine and a std. 5-speed AT at $15,500. $4,300 is a lot to pay for IMA and the beautiful yet informative displays and exterior.

___I believe the pressure is off of Toyota as well so expect the base Prius-III to head out the door in the $25K+ range now.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

$21k?? That's what I got my HCHII for. What's the point? Worse mileage and smaller?

nf

*Sigh* I still do not understand why they will not even offer a 1L 3-cylinder 5-speed option anymore. Both the original Insight and the Chevy/GEO Metro, which are the only cars I know of that had a 1L 3-cylinder engine are not being made anymore.

I think this is priced too high. The top model is coming awfully close to the bottom of the Prius range. Yes, Honda will be able to claim the cheapest hybrid on the market. To me it's a bit of a hollow victory, with all the corners they cut to get there.

$4,300 for IMA is pretty steep.

The LX would be fine for my needs, except for the missing cruise control. That's a clear and obvious "upsell" feature. $1,500 for the upgrade to EX is pretty steep, when all I want is the cruise module.

My opinion is that Honda is not making a good move for consumers in today's economic conditions. I just talked to one guy that has a deposit on an Insight. He stated that the extra fees will put it over the dollar amount he has budgeted.

At $25,000+ for the base model Prius, Toyota would be doing the same.

Just checked and the 2009 HCHII has a $2000 rebate right now with 2.9 or 3.9% financing.

Edmunds TMV for a base HCHII is $21,600.

nf

It's hard to make apples to apples comparisons.
But you get closest with NAVI to NAVI comparisons and Auto to CVT.
All four models below come with VSA.
All prices MSRP.


Fit Sport NAVI - $18,960
Insight EX NAVI - $23,100

+$4,140 with Automatic Climate Control Add and with IMA Add

Civic EX NAVI - $22,105
Civic Hybrid NAVI - $25,650

+$3,454 with Automatic Climate Control Add and IMA Add
and Moonroof delete and Rear Disk Brake delete



Please price out what the typical upgrade from conventional AC to Automatic Climate Control costs. (~$500)

Please price out what a Moonroof upgrade costs. (~$700)
Please price out what four wheel disk brake upgrade costs. (~$300)

That means the Insight IMA system added ~$3,640 MSRP compared to an equivalent FIT.
The Civic IMA system added ~4,045 MSRP compared to an equivalent Civic.

Bottom line - the Insight IMA cost reduced ~10% compared to the Civic IMA!
Bravo. Quite an achievment.


My only quibble is with VSA bundle (Fit Sport + NAVI, versus Insight EX).
Which lowers the "premium" of the Insight EX over the Fit Sport NAVI to only $2,340.

-mr. bill

I must admit that I'm disappointed in the pricing. My wife is #1 on the list at our dealer for an Insight to replace her Ridgeline that is off lease May 5th. Unfortunately, the Prius III will not be available by then. I had anticipated no more than $22K for an EX with navi, which is what was allocated by Honda. With cut-rate financing and rebates on HCH IIs I would be more likely to get another one of those. Alas, my wife loves the Insight after seeing it a the auto show So I will probably end up having to bte the bullet. What a poor market decision by Honda!

Bravo in your case for moving from a ridgeline to this insight. That's more fuel savings than my best hypermiling can do.

Gah. :( The car should have been priced for $17500.

Gah. :( The car should have been priced for $17500.


Right on. Bad Honda!

Bravo in your case for moving from a ridgeline to this insight. That's more fuel savings than my best hypermiling can do.

She actually did have a legitimate use for the truck when she first got it, thank God it's leased and I can get rid of it now that we don't need a bigger vehicle any more. Perhaps they will be kind and throw in a cargo cover, all-weather mats, and such so I don't feel quite so much a sucker...maybe.

$21k?? That's what I got my HCHII for. What's the point? Worse mileage and smaller?

nf"Smaller" depends on how you measure. If you have to carry things (or 4 people + dog), the Insight is substantially larger than the HCH.

Having previously owned four different 5-door Honda Inc. vehicles, I for one am thrilled that after a 17 year absence they are again offering a 5-door smaller than the porky CR-V.

I do share everyone's disappointment in the price, though. We were all led to believe it would be better. It's barely lower than current base Gen2 Prius. The US Dollar has risen a lot against most currencies recently, but sadly not vs. the Yen.

Gah. :( The car should have been priced for $17500.

Insight DX Dream Configuration
$15,500 Base Fit Auto
+$3,640 IMA
-$1,250 Radio delete, Automatic Climate Control Delete, AC Delete
-------
$17,940
-$ 440 TBD
-------
$17,500

You tell me, what else on "The Fit Is Gone" at this point? That TBD is tough. (And don't say the CVT. It'll cost more to offer a MT than you'd save because of the certification costs.)

When you get done configuring this "dream" car, will you but it? (Will anybody else?)

-mr. bill

I'd buy it , if I didn't already have a FE vehicle.
I'll drive my prius II into the ground before I trade.

But if i didn't have it I'd be all over it. of course I also bought a brand new $36K PU before so don't listen to me when it comes to vehicle purchases :)

Can't do without AC here. Well, maybe I could, but I may as well drive a vespa; noone would ride with me.

3460 seems alot for IMA, but that includes batteries and related hybrid specific programming and misc, so I understand it.

Think I'd look at the Prius II unless the HI II is discounted.

at this rate its just better to go used hybrid or learn how to hypermile a 5spd used car, dissapointed!

If it was up to me the honda civic 5spd hybrid is the beauty gem, but those are rare ;( and the battery packs on those tend to go out quicker due to abuse of the assist when in higher gear.

Plus lean burn whoo! Go nOx

Mr. Bill, I'm going to answer your question in a sideways fashion. Toyota has managed to get the upcharge for HSD down to under $2000 and are approaching (if not already at) $1500 for the newest iteration in the Prius III.

IMA is considerably simpler in implementation and uses a smaller battery. In light of this, $3,640 seems excessive for its addition.

The Honda Fit goes for $17k. You're not going to get a hybrid for the same price as a Fit.

...IMA is considerably simpler in implementation and uses a smaller battery. In light of this, $3,640 seems excessive for its addition.

Indeed, and adding to what Sean said I would not even compare the IMA in the upcoming Insight with the implementation on the HCH-II either. For my taste alone, there are too many things that are either not present or simply scaled back in terms of manufacturing, general sophistication and specific capability.
... and we're not yet mentioning assembly quality and materials either. From looking and inspecting the HI-II in person, the HCH-II is head and shoulders above the Insight in terms of class, materials and fit and finish.

In fact, in my area at least there will be people who will use their deposits to purchase the HCH-II instead of the HI-II - if comes out at this price.

Cheers;

MSantos

Mr. Bill, I'm going to answer your question in a sideways fashion. Toyota has managed to get the upcharge for HSD down to under $2000 and are approaching (if not already at) $1500 for the newest iteration in the Prius III.
.

That's a stretch.

Even if it is $2000 then what Toyota does is place the system in a well optioned version of every vehicle. In the end it may be a bit more than a "comparable" trim but it's still well beyond the base.


Highlander Base: $26,000
Highlander Hybrid: $35,000

Camry Base: $19,000
Camry Hybrid: $26,000

Matrix Base: $16,000
Prius Base: $22,000

And this doesn't even include the alternatives among cheaper automakers. You could get a very nicely loaded Suzuki hatch for $7000 less than a comparable Prius. That's quite alot of gas money. Or you could get a loaded Jetta for $4000 less than the Camry.

The Honda Fit goes for $17k. You're not going to get a hybrid for the same price as a Fit.

Finally some clear thinking!

I really question anyone who thinks Honda was about to attack it's own top selling Fit market by pricing this near the Fit.

Great coverage, CMPG. Thanks much.

at this rate its just better to go used hybrid or learn how to hypermile a 5spd used car, dissapointed!

If it was up to me the honda civic 5spd hybrid is the beauty gem, but those are rare ;( and the battery packs on those tend to go out quicker due to abuse of the assist when in higher gear.

Plus lean burn whoo! Go nOx

I still have one of those:D and over 115,000 miles and the battery is still going strong. kevin

GreenVTEC, please see the article below:

Toyota’s 08 Camry XLE vs. 08 Camry Hybrid - Cost and features analysis (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6665)

Indeed, and adding to what Sean said I would not even compare the IMA in the upcoming Insight with the implementation on the HCH-II either. For my taste alone, there are too many things that are either not present or simply scaled back in terms of manufacturing, general sophistication and specific capability.
... and we're not yet mentioning assembly quality and materials either. From looking and inspecting the HI-II in person, the HCH-II is head and shoulders above the Insight in terms of class, materials and fit and finish.

In fact, in my area at least there will be people who will use their deposits to purchase the HCH-II instead of the HI-II - if comes out at this price.

Cheers;

MSantos

I went to the waverly dealership today to see if we can expect to see our "Canadian version" any sooner than the April date .... As far as they knew the dates have not changed .... but with this price ... I 'Dunno just with straight exchange with the US dollar it's $29,700 CDN for the EX ... OUCH !

--->Kevin
The Civic is starting to look like a better deal.

I just talked to our local dealer and informed them of the price! They had not seen the doc. MSRP is what they want with out a mark up. If you don't put a deposit on one, it will have mudflaps and a pinstripe.

I found out here :eek:

We don't put crap on cars with deposits that customers didn't ask for. Ours without a deposit will most likely have splash guards and window tint.

Just checked and the 2009 HCHII has a $2000 rebate right now with 2.9 or 3.9% financing.

Edmunds TMV for a base HCHII is $21,600.

nf

Honda doesn't do rebates, are you sure its not an incentive?

Was your sales manager at a Honda meeting today?
The sales manager at Ike's Honda at Marion, IL and the sales manager Bluegrass Honda at Paducah, KY were both at a Honda meeting today. I was the one that informed them that the price had been released via Honda at CleanMPG.com. They were surprised to say the least.

I found out here :eek:

We don't put crap on cars with deposits that customers didn't ask for. Ours without a deposit will most likely have splash guards and window tint.

Everyone was present, hmm

I went to the waverly dealership today to see if we can expect to see our "Canadian version" any sooner than the April date .... As far as they knew the dates have not changed .... but with this price ... I 'Dunno just with straight exchange with the US dollar it's $29,700 CDN for the EX ... OUCH !

--->Kevin
The Civic is starting to look like a better deal.

Hi Kevin;

I've spoken to a few future HI-II owners in the Winnipeg area as well as some of the staff at the Birchwood Honda shortly after I arrived from the NAIAS auto show in Detroit and one of the things we all agreed on, is that the base car needs to retail well under $22K CND in order to be a viable option for the masses. To be more specific, The EX needs to retail a good $1500-$2500 below the Civic Hybrid given the differences in technology, class and appointments.

I guess we'll see what ends-up happening on the pricing front in Canada but given the US prices I am a bit concerned too.

Cheers;

MSantos

I'd be lining up to by an Insight-II if I hadn't just bought a Scion xD 7 months ago. I just don't see what all thhe griping is about. The Prius-III is going to be nearly $30k and the TCH is about $28k. It's not like Toyota's interested in making hybrids that the average Joe can afford. Honda had to make a few comprimises to make the Insight-II the price it is. I think it's a good plan. After all, it's about $2,500 more than a Fit but gets 14 MPG more in-city. It's also nearly $10k less than the Prius. It's $8k less than the TCH but gets the same in-city mileage. And yet, all I hear is gripe, gripe, gripe, gripe. Gimmie a break. If the Insight-II is still around in 4 years, I'll trade my Scion for one of those (assuming it's not Insight-III or Hybrid Fit being offered by then).

Mr. Bill, I'm going to answer your question in a sideways fashion. Toyota has managed to get the upcharge for HSD down to under $2000 and are approaching (if not already at) $1500 for the newest iteration in the Prius III.

IMA is considerably simpler in implementation and uses a smaller battery. In light of this, $3,640 seems excessive for its addition.

Comparably Equippped
(Sorry, no Leather Steering Wheel or Smart Key System for the LE. No Chrome Exhaust Tip for the Hybrid)

Camry LE $22,370
$ 650 Add VSC + TRAC
$ 251 Cargo Net ($51 + $200 dealer install est)
NA Leather Steering Wheel Cover
NA Smart Key System
-------
$23,271

Camry Hybrid $26,870
NA Chrome Exhaust Tip
-$ 500 (Climate Control Delete)
-------
$26,370

LE->Hybrid $ 3,099



-mr. bill

Is there some reason you have ignored the link I posted above with this in it?

Pricing: The current 2007 TCH as outfitted directly from Toyota costs $2,027 more then a similarly equipped Toyota Camry XLE per the Invoice pricing.

KISS
It's pretty easy to get a "comparably equipped" comparison between the LE verus Hybrid.
You *can't* even come close to "comparably equipped" XLE versus Hybrid.
If you attempt to get "somewhat close" the comparison is worse.
MSRP != Invoice


-mr. bill

Lets see how they price the CRZ. I have a feeling you might be able to get one of those for $16k for a base priced stripper, due to it's size.

If they play it right, they'll do a true econo version and a true sport version, like the old CRX (HF, SI).

Well, Bill... if you refuse to try to option them up to the same level in order to tease out the actual cost of HSD, I can't help you.

If your complaint is that you can't get an actual base model with the hybrid system tacked on, I'm with you there.

Honda doesn't do rebates, are you sure its not an incentive?
tomayto-tomahto

Financing
Start: 03/03/2009 End: 03/31/2009
2.9% APR Term: 36 months
3.9% APR Term: 60 months
Special APR is combinable with available Dealer Cash. Vehicle must be financed through the manufacturer's captive finance company.

Manufacturer to Dealer
Marketing Support
$2000 Cash to Dealer start: 03/03/2009 end: 03/31/2009
Restrictions Dealer Cash is combinable with Special APR.

Well, Bill... if you refuse to try to option them up to the same level in order to tease out the actual cost of HSD, I can't help you.

If your complaint is that you can't get an actual base model with the hybrid system tacked on, I'm with you there.

If you can't see that I did option up an equivalent LE and Hybrid to tease out the actual cost of the HSD, I can't help you.

-mr. bill

I fail to see where your comparison is more valid than the one I linked to?

GreenVTEC, please see the article below:

Toyota’s 08 Camry XLE vs. 08 Camry Hybrid - Cost and features analysis (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6665)

That's the same "lux" version trim vs hybrid.

People talk up how "amazing" a hybrid model is but never clarify they are only doing the compare vs. the top of the line alternative.

XLE baubles that are unavailable on the Hybrid.

Integrated front fog lamps (finally available in 2010, detail pricing not yet available)
Wood-grain interior trim with chrome accents
Locking rear seats
Power windows with driver's auto up/down blah blah blah
Sliding center armrest
Alarm

Then there are the things that are standard on the XLE, semi-available on the Hybrid through option bundles, and some only available as dealer installed options. As you add the option bundles to the Hybrid, you can go back to the XLE to add missing components there, sometime ala carte, sometimes through another option bundle. But those add-ins on the XLE add some stuff that's not in the Hybrid package, so lather, rinse, repeat.


In the end, the LE -> Hybrid cost comparison is simpler to configure and compare.

-mr. bill

Hi Mr. Bill:

___Unfortunately, you are incorrect. The XLE is far closer to the hybrid given the amenities. If you do not believe the 08 to 08 comparison, Bill Reinert (Toyota's technology lead) statement that HSD is $2K and Toyota is nearing $1,500 if the NiMH’s do not increase, you can believe what you want. Have you ever sat in a TCH XLE and LE side by side yet? There is a world of difference between the TCH and XLE vs. the LE.

___$500 for Auto A/C? There is less than $50 worth of parts to make an A/C automatic just as VSA/ESC/VSC costs less than $100 OEM. A Camry LE is not a TCH just as an LX is not an HCH-II and the Base Fit is not an Insight-II EX.

___About the Insight-II. Its rear seat legroom and headroom are far smaller than the Fit. Its hatch area is far larger all on the same basic platform. We can only hope Honda can pull this off (An LX for greater than $20K) in the current recessionary climate. I certainly have second guessed them at one point in time or another in the past but fortunately, we are looking at one of the few large auto makers that is still profitable. With that, Honda knows what it is doing with the lineup and the pricing of such.

___Acura, that is another story altogether ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Yes, I have.

A heavily optioned Hybrid is sort-of-close to an XLE.
A base Hybrid is quite close to an optioned LE. (Toyota dealers don't keep too many base Camry Hybrid's around. They don't like to sell them.)

Bill Reinert said "We do have to mitigate our price. Everybody wonders what Toyota's hybrid price is. Well you all can go figure that out now, because, just go, model for model, in the Camry, the Camry Hybrid versus the Camry LE [emphasis mine] and equip the cars similarly, and you'll see, uh, it's $2,000, I'll save you the math."

I did the math. It's $3,099. If you think Auto AC only costs $50, then it's $3,549.

-mr. bill

If you think Auto AC only costs $50, then it's $3,549.
-mr. bill

$2549, no?? Or am I missing something??

Hi Mr. Bill:

___

... and you'll see, uh, it's $2,000, I'll save you the math feature for feature and its ~ $2K for HSD.

___Exactly!

___Now if you have sat in an LE and TCH side by side and said they were comparable, maybe you do not remember what you were sitting in?

___Wrt to the Insight-II, the Base Fit with AT is comparable to the Base Insight-II with CVT. Difference, $4,300.

___Insight-II's IMA includes a single but very sophisticated 13 HP MGset with a small NiMH pack and an Inverter/Rectifier. The Exterior is gorgeous and the Hybrid displays are truly excellent. The interior however is a lower line Honda. The FE performance... It is more capable then the HCH-II around town thanks to the lower weight and much improved CVT programming. Out on the highway, it is lacking due to the lowered final ratio. Worth $4,300 more than a Fit? When gasoline rises back to $3.00 +, many consumers will decide in favor of the Insight-II which is a benefit for all of us. It just seems like a lot of money right now is all.

___All that being said, Honda gave Toyota a lot of breathing room wrt Prius-II pricing as the Insight-II EX is not close to the Base Prius-III in most comparison categories.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

I can only imagine that this car will be around $24k in Canada and even at it's current price in the US it doesn't tempt me. I think I'm a pretty good representative of the market Honda was looking to add to the Hybrid owners lounge with the Insight II, but they missed the mark by a large margin as I don't even feel tempted.

We'll continue with our Yaris until it dies, gas is astronomically more expensive or a solution comes along for true economy car owners.