Archives

You see them all over the toy stores.

They are in all kinds of ads.

They are used as billboards themselves.

It is the Hummer - usually the H2.

Diet Dr Pepper has an H3 promotional.

Now McDonalds is giving toy Hummers with their Happy Meals - Google it here (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=mcdonalds%20hummer&safe=active&sa=N&tab=wn).

The Hummer is not the worst thing known to the human race, but it is latently gas-guzzeling. Just as it would be hard to make a car go farther on a gallon of gas than a 5-speed Insight, it would be hard to design a street-legal passenger vehicle that went less on a gallon of gas than an H1 Hummer. In fact, Arnold Schwartzenegger had to do some badgering before civilians were allowed to buy an H1. The H2 is not much better, and is a Chevy Tahoe chassis imitating a Humvee. The H3 has argueably decent FE for it's class of vehicle, but it's ancestry is clear.

The painful truth is even with $3 a gallon gas, much of the public has HummerLust. I fully expect crowds to still oggle Hummers at the Texas' State Fair's Auto Show (http://www.bigtex.com/autoshow/gallery/). Many people probably are just fantazing and never buy one. I have angered people quoting Clotaire Rapaille (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4710897/), who has led the charge marketing SUV's. He candidly says jumbo SUV's are targeted for insecure and vain people that have the desire to dominate or bully others. He goes on to say the Hummer is an intentional epithet at other drivers - hardly anyone uses their suburb off-roading capabilities. Suffice to say, much of what Clotair Repaille says is incendary - some of his commercials were rejected, but in a way might be Saturday Night Live material.

Back to the main thought - truck and SUV sales have dropped considerably in 2006 - is it time companies like McDonalds' figure that using gas-guzzlers as a promotional might start to be bad business? I hope they figure out that one soon.

Maybe I better make a pre-emptive reply now: These ads suggest both denial and the desire to have it both ways with much of the American public. Much has been said about Pain at the Pump and how something must be done, but a large segment still drools over gas guzzlers. The only reason ads like the McDonald's/Hummer ones work is the marketers have determined they are appealing.without being objectionable. Many of you can remember ads being removed because they were insensitive to various groups of the population. Gas guzzlers in promotionals should be added to the politically incorrect list....

Remember the "Restore your manhood" ads for Hummer? The same ads are still running, but the tag line has been changed to "Restore the balance". I wonder what prompted that?

Remember the "Restore your manhood" ads for Hummer? The same ads are still running, but the tag line has been changed to "Restore the balance". I wonder what prompted that?

That's kind of funny, because to replace the original offending tag line, the new one is not all that good. Still seems like an appeal for one-upsmanship - not "balance".

Hehe... There are some who would say that a Prius is only marginally more green than a hummer. Considering that these vehicles use ~40-150 times the energy required to do what the majority of their use is, single passenger minimal cargo. Comparing a "green" hybrid to a modern microcar shows that the hybrid really isn't that "green", it's a shame we don't have microcars anymore... I suppose they're too efficient for the market.

Hehe... There are some who would say that a Prius is only marginally more green than a hummer. Considering that these vehicles use ~40-150 times the energy required to do what the majority of their use is, single passenger minimal cargo. Comparing a "green" hybrid to a modern microcar shows that the hybrid really isn't that "green", it's a shame we don't have microcars anymore... I suppose they're too efficient for the market.

While I'm not going to assert hybrids are perfectly green, I'm not really game for the arguement that "a Prius is wasteful, so it's not better than an H2". Granted, commuting in something else alone might be greener, although a Prius is pretty good.

We could go hybrid vs. Smart car vs. diesel vs. motorcycle, etc.....all of them are good choices and definitely superior than an H2.

A few weeks ago a friend of mine and I went out to dinner at a local bar/restaurant (good beer on tap :Banane35: ). We were complaining about SUV's in general and Hummers in particular. Our 18-ish waitress walked up during this so I explained to her, "We were just talking about Hummers." She looked startled but took our order. When she left David explained to me that "hummer" is current local slang for "blowjob." Appropriate, no?

Now whenever I see a Hummer I laugh.

While I'm not going to assert hybrids are perfectly green, I'm not really game for the arguement that "a Prius is wasteful, so it's not better than an H2". Granted, commuting in something else alone might be greener, although a Prius is pretty good.

I'm not saying it's not better, it's roughly three times better. But that doesn't mean it's good considering we could have vehicles that are roughly 40-80 times more efficient than a hummer, with minimal loss in utility compared to the high mpg two seaters. A prius, hummer, motorcycle, insight, etc... are all bad in my book, and just another example of our consumer culture.

I'll never say any given vehicle has no more room for improvement, but this seems overly hard on hybrids like the Prius. The Insight and Honda CRX HF are two seaters BTW with FE that is favorable with the Smart. Sadly the Insight is being discontinued because more people did not buy them. :(

Again, I can see an comparsion between hybrids, diesels, motorcycles, mini-cars, mopeds, etc. All have pros and cons and if someone is inclined, debate this in a non-constructive way for awhile. If the general American public embraced all of the above more it would be a definite plus. Technology will address the respective shortcoming of some of these different modes....

The only thing i have to say is that it's not technology, it's design. manufacturers know that a small two seater ala vw's 1l prototype allows for all the function the average car is used for most (~80%) of the time, while getting FE of ~200-700mpg depending on drivetrain, with even more possible if the vehicle is smaller. i'm not trying to be combative, i'm just saying that what manufacturers claim is "efficient", really isn't.

I'll agree that in general, American vehicles are oversized and too performance-oriented for mamxium fuel efficiency.

Keep in mind the average US vehicle gets 22mpg - easily doubled by the Prius and HCH. If the general population used that class of vehicle for commutes, gas would not be at $3.00 a gallon or talk of "pain at the pump". Granted, it's not the best solution, but that would be a quantium leap over the present situation.

Ads like the McDonald's/Hummer toy, are sad reminders gas guzzelers are still cool to a lot of people....

Its not going to stop Chuck. Its too ingrained.

Its the american way. Bigger is better. Just take house's as a example. In Germany and many other country's else where in the world. Homes are kept within the family for generations. Here we go thru homes like tolit paper. Sure it keeps a part of the econmy going. But its waisteful as hell. And falsely drives property values up.

In the 50's a track home was a bonglo or a few acers of tudors. Now its miles of 3k to 5k square foot homes, crambed up next to each other with a little patch of green out front and a big blue water hole and concrete out back. Like we really need homes that big for a family of 4 or 5 now days with 2.5 cars. LMAO Sure I owned a large home at one point in my life,,,, and am i glad thats over.

Its the same with the hummer set.

I was glad to see less hoe's abd burbs on the roads in the last year or so. Not that i mind them. But it is rare to actully see one loaded down. Then the 07's came out and Im seeing a whole new crop of hoe's and burb's.

In the mean time. As folks whine and bitch about gas prices. Like its the presdents fault that oil man texan rep. Or its the Arabs fault. We go to war for oil. Look at the money the oil companys are making. and so forth and so on. I listen then point at them and say " your the problem! " Look at that truck you drive with not a scratch in the bed, or there SUV parked outside my office. See my Civic parked out there. " Im not the problem! "

I then move on. Leave them stamering and a a a buting.

Delta Flyer wrote:

Diet Dr Pepper has an H3 promotional.

Now McDonalds is giving toy Hummers with their Happy Meals

Synergistic promotion of gas guzzler's and junk food. What a concept!

All I can say is that I traded in a geo metro for a honda civic hybrid because of the size. People aren't going to buy a 20% car and an 80% car They are going to buy one car that serve both purposes.

This is why we see lots of pickup trucks and suvs on the roads. The problem is that the smaller the vehicle gets the less utility it can give. I have a gripe against people that drive pickups and suvs as their primary car instead of renting one at one of the home stores when they need them. I guess this is how you feel against sedans.

If it makes you feel any better I normaly put 3 or 4 people in my car when we drive to lunch. That is an effective 150 people mpg. Even a bus is "efficient" if you put 60 people in it ;)

So its not so much the size of the vehicle but rather how it is used.

Then I guess my pickup gets almost 60pmpg? ;)

I've found that quite a few people have a car and a pickup, or some other combo. I figured, going from my pickup (~23mpg) to the bunny (~50mpg) paid itself off in roughly 10k miles given the cost of the car/parts I've had to replace. In other words, going from the bunny to pickup saves me over $1000 a year in gas at ~10k miles per year, and even with insurance at ~$300-400 extra per year, I still come out ahead because of a reduction of fuel costs. If I get another vehicle, it'd have to cost me ~$200 every 10k miles when factoring in the costs like insurance and registration, and as a result, must get ~150mpg.

Can any current vehicles do this? No. So building a motorcycle/microcar hybrid is my only viable option.. But that being said, it would cost me exactly the same to have a pickup, hatchback, and microcar to split up driving according to need compared to just having a pickup, or hatchback. And my resulting fuel consumption would be ~1/7th of what it was, with no loss in utility and increase in total cost, which would drive the cost of gas down a little little tiny bit. Now, if I was really smart, since I'll only use the pickup sparingly, then I'll only have insurance on it when I need it via online insurance site... and watch my auto costs drop by ~$300-400 a year.

Anyway, What I'm getting that is a pickup or sedan paired with a microcar would result in much less fuel used, with the same utility. Financial cost would drop because of the decrease in fuel consumption would result in personal fuel costs dropping, as well as a potential worldwide decrease on consumption, which may reduce the price of fuel.

I think we are saying the same thing in two different ways. Having a microcar might reduce fuel consumption enough that it would outweight the costs of owning it. But that will greatly depend on individual circumstances.

I see plug in hybrids as a great way to get to 0 fuel consumption on a lot of commutes without sacrificing the utility of size and being able to drive it accross country if needed. So now you get a 4 door that gets well above the 150mpg making it more usefull than microcars and I think we will be seeing them in a majority of homes in the next decade. I think the next 6 to 10 years will solidify the way automobiles are made for the next 30.

Hybrids and plugin hybrids will change automobiles in a way similar to the introduction of fuel injection.

Well, you have to figure how much of your driving is with all four people... Almost everyone I know would benefit from having a microcar and the car they already have more than if they ditched their car and got a hybrid. Given the higher fuel costs of having a large vehicle, almost everyone would spend the same, or less, including insurance if they had a normal car that only got ~20mpg, and a diesel, electric, gasoline, hybrid, microcar that got ~300-700mpg. The costs are less, and fuel consumption is definitely less. Not to mention they take up half the space, and if their numbers get up there, can take advantage of lane splitting. Cut traffic by ~40%, fuel costs by ~80%, and total cost by ~60%, whats not to love?

Hi Lyeinyoureye:

___You have to face reality here. There is no microcar that gets 200 + mpg’s that you or I could probably afford let alone drive on the roads we do today. Or the ones I do anyway? The Tesla Roadster comes to mind and that is ~ 130 mpg equivalent? If you can place the 11 HP lawnmower engine in a 1,200 # aerodynamic car, you might make it to 200 mpg but you will have the acceleration of a 11 HP ICE in a 1,200 # car + the 200 # driver. And it surely wouldn’t be equipped with side and side curtains, ABS, VSC, EBD, and TRAC or powered and heated Leather, power everything else, and a great NAVI … If you want 150 + mpg’s, find a great and short country road to work and back (you might have to move?) with great year round temps and pick up a used Insight 5-speed. It won’t last forever like this but it will give you want you want for a while.

___If you want to speak about P/U FE, I saw 74 mpg’s on the SG-II in my Ranger last night for over a mile from dead cold (hadn’t started her in over 2 weeks) heading out to my son’s school for a Parent/Teacher introduction night … Did I mention it was raining on and off? Until I hit 30 minutes of traffic around the school’s 1 mile radius just 4 miles later which cut me in half :( The FE you want is almost up to you within limits of the car. Whether you choose to take it is a whole other question for another thread …

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Afford? I could throw together a spartan microcar that gets ~1,000mpg@55mph equivalent, weighs ~600-700lbs, has a power to weight ratio of ~.04-.05lb/hp, a range of ~100 miles@55mph all electric, a 50lb Honda genset for long trips (maybe 300-400mpg@55mph on gasoline), and is as safe as any roll-caged racing vehicle, for ~$5-7k, including tools, using off the shelf components. And I'm not an automobile manufacturer, costs go way down with mass production.

What was your average speed? I'm going for ~300-700mpg@55mph, not at 25-35mph P&G. Something greater than bicycle speeds would be nice.The Tesla roadster is ~130mpg@50mph EPA equivalent, or ~250+mpg@20mph EPA city equivalent, and it has roughly four times the CdA of the 1L prototype, definitely not a microcar.

Besides, this has already been done. VW had most of those options, less the Navi iirc(?), but abandoned the 1L project because they couldn't bring it in under $26k, with something less than 10,000 units per year utilizing a totaly new drivetrain and platform. As more are made, costs drop, so if these were to sell like the Prius, costs would probably be progressively less than the Prius.

Wayne,

Thank you for reminding us about the limits of technology in 2006. Sadly, there are not that many 60mpg+ cars and there are trade-offs. I've been in these discussions before and there are trade-offs (speed, carrying capacity, or both).

Once again, I'd like to remind everyone the thread was discussing Hummer promotionals, and the unfortunate fact much of the general public loves them. The H2 seats five, just like the Prius and HCH. I'm sure a long list could be made of 12mpg vehicles that carry a lot more than five people and/or payload. The Hummer glorifies waste.

Hi Lyeinyoureye:

___You need to read up on the 1L a bit more. It was downhill and slow speed course all the way. The thing could barely accelerate and it was not even close to street legal. It was a publicity stunt!

___If you can build it, they will come. So far, you have not built it and thus no one has come … Maybe an Aptera will do nicely but right now, the 1L is a joke and thus VW abandoned it. You just have not read up on the detail enough to figure that out just yet …

___Good Luck

___Wayne

I think Delta's hinting that we're getting a bit too off topic, I'll PM you. ;)

Afford? I could throw together a spartan microcar that gets ~1,000mpg@55mph equivalent, weighs ~600-700lbs, has a power to weight ratio of ~.04-.05lb/hp, a range of ~100 miles@55mph all electric, a 50lb Honda genset for long trips (maybe 300-400mpg@55mph on gasoline), and is as safe as any roll-caged racing vehicle, for ~$5-7k, including tools, using off the shelf components. And I'm not an automobile manufacturer, costs go way down with mass production.

What was your average speed? I'm going for ~300-700mpg@55mph, not at 25-35mph P&G. Something greater than bicycle speeds would be nice.The Tesla roadster is ~130mpg@50mph EPA equivalent, or ~250+mpg@20mph EPA city equivalent, and it has roughly four times the CdA of the 1L prototype, definitely not a microcar.

Besides, this has already been done. VW had most of those options, less the Navi iirc(?), but abandoned the 1L project because they couldn't bring it in under $26k, with something less than 10,000 units per year utilizing a totaly new drivetrain and platform. As more are made, costs drop, so if these were to sell like the Prius, costs would probably be progressively less than the Prius.

With all due respect, which century are we discussing? I see no links that hint at this kind of ultra fuel efficiency. If such URL's from a source other than a personal page or blog exist, I'd love to read them.

To illustrate how far removed getting hundreds of miles to the gallon is, Wikiapedia states walking is the gasoline equivalent of 235mpg ( see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_per_gallon#Fuel_efficiency_in_transportation )

Once again, I'd like to remind everyone the thread was discussing Hummer promotionals, and the unfortunate fact much of the general public loves them. The H2 seats five, just like the Prius and HCH. I'm sure a long list could be made of 12mpg vehicles that carry a lot more than five people and/or payload. The Hummer glorifies waste.

lyeinyoureye,

Tangents are OK, but this one has run it's course. If you insist on discussing something other than ads like the "Ronald McHummer" ads, do it in another thread, please.

The focus on www.cleanmpg.com (http://www.cleanmpg.com) is to discuss better fuel economy with what exists - not some hypotheical vehicle that gets hundred of miles to the gallon. Let's talk about the real world.

I can agree with Delta about changing the topic discussion too much in a specific thread, as I almost stopped reading this thread due to the “hypothetical” mpg stuff. :rolleyes:

In regard to the McDonalds promotion using the Hummer toys as a promotion, it doesn’t bother me personally. I make my own choices about what works for my family and me.

If I was a kid I would rather push/play around with a truck like vehicle over some non-sports type car of toy anyway. My son wants a Ferrari; it’s not practical, but very alluring.:D

What does come to mind is why doesn’t Honda or Toyota or any other manufacture of ‘green’ hybrids promote their products?

What does come to mind is why doesn’t Honda or Toyota or any other manufacture of ‘green’ hybrids promote their products?

I have seen a toy Prius in the toy section, but it's lost in the crowd of Hummers, Escalades and CXTs. :(

Some might ask if I might object to a dump truck? The answer is it's not that likely Junior is going to drive a dump truck unless it's his job. ;)

Hi Lyeinyoureye:

___I had to soft delete your last as it was way off the page. We know about the Microjoule team. We know about Fancy Carol. We know about the Shell Eco-Marathons … Not for this thread however.

___Chuck, Bradlee or maybe it was Rees found a Prius roll back, go forward toy he brought to the last Milwaukee Hybrid Group Meet. Really cool too! If I find out where it came from, I will pass on a link. Probably went 6X’s the distance for the same energy input vs. the H2 toys too ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne