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xcel
01-24-2009, 10:20 PM
Clean diesel is a technological breakthrough a century in the making... (cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=182709)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Audi_A3_TDI_near_Chicago.jpgWayne Gerdes - CleanMPG (cleanmpg.com) – Jan. 24, 2009

Audi A3 with its 2.0L TDI - 50.5 mpgUS achieved during the Washington DC to Cleveland, OH segment of the 2008 Audi Mileage Marathon.

Second to last installment highlighting CleanMPG’s coverage of the 2009 NAIAS - Detroit Autoshow.

Detroit - As the Audi Mileage Marathon concluded last fall, Audi was positioning itself for carbon constrained and turbulent economic times ahead with its diesel prowess leading the way. Is it any wonder given the extremely fuel efficient Turbo charged and Direct Injection diesel technology known as TDI invented by Audi?

Audi is currently pushing Congress for changes in tax laws and emissions regulations that hinder full acceptance of clean diesel into the US. Diesel automobiles in their current form offer one of the best opportunities available to lessen our nation's dependence on foreign oil supplies today, not tomorrow.

The EPA estimates that if 1/3 of vehicles on the road in the US were powered by clean diesel, we would save 1.4 million barrels of oil per day. That happens to be the amount of oil we import daily from Saudi Arabia!

“We can dream about discovering new oil fields to make this country less dependent on foreign oil, or we can embrace the technology that achieves the same result,” said J. de Nysschen, executive VP of Audi. “This is only phase 1. Phase 2 kicks in when the oil industry masters the ability to produce bio-diesel from ecologically sustainable waste organic material – not part of the food chain – in economically viable quantities. The technology exists, and the production challenges will be solved. Then we will have reached the point of renewable energy and economically viable transportation.”

Unfortunately, America stands in its own way.

If the US Government is serious about reducing its dependence on foreign oil, it must do more to encourage consumers to drive more fuel efficient vehicles.

Along with offering some of the most fuel efficient C-Class sized compact diesel powered automobiles in Europe, namely the A3 with a 104 HP rated 1.9L TDI capable of 52.3 mpgUS combined on the NEDC, Audi now has plans for diesel in America.

We have already seen details about the previously announced Q5 and behemoth Q7, both with 3.0L TDI’s and SCR with AdBlue based emissions controls, but Audi’s next US based model will include the compact but fuel efficient luxury based A3. With an ultra modern fuel efficient yet 50-state emissions compliant 140 HP capable 2.0L TDI as equipped in the current 09 VW Jetta, it too is bound to make its status known.

2.0L TDI - Engine and emissions control system details

Although the A3 with the 2.0L TDI is not quite as efficient as the older 1.9L (46.1 mpgUS vs. 52.3 mpgUS on the NEDC), the latest technology transforms it into an excellent performer (0 to 60 mph in under 9 seconds vs. the 1.9L’s 11.2 seconds).

The 2.0L is also far smoother running thanks in part to the common rail, and 26,000 psi capable Piezo-electric injectors allowing multiple injections per cycle. This advanced high pressure injection system not only smooths out the clatter and vibration of less advanced diesel predecessors but also improves performance and reduces emissions.

An advanced EGR capable of running up to 60 percent recirculated and cooled exhaust gas significantly reduces NOx emissions. A variable vane third-generation turbocharger improves throttle response by reducing turbo lag from low RPM’s.

The included Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) and NOx adsorbing catalyst, the first of its kind attached to a consumer based diesel that is 50-state emissions compliant, allows the A3 2.0L TDI to be driven anywhere in the world that low sulfur diesel is available. The emissions control solution is so advanced it does not need an additional and expensive Selective Catalyst Reduction (SCR) Catalytic Converter, AdBlue reservoir, metering and injection control system required by most 50-state compliant diesels, including its bigger brothers, the Q5 and Q7.

Finally, we will see the A3 equipped with a 6-speed Dual-Clutch DSG Automatic Transmission that is so highly rated that other manufacturers are stumbling all over themselves to include something similar in their own future vehicle lineups.

A3 Marketplace

The upcoming Audi A3 moves into the luxury market segment that currently lacks a highly fuel efficient diesel or hybrid compact. With an 08 EPA estimate similar to that of the current VW Jetta TDI (29/40 mpgUS city/highway), the A3 will target buyers who need a small but versatile package without sacrificing luxury and sportiness. Key competitors will include the BMW 1-series, Mini Cooper S, Volvo C30 and S40, upcoming Toyota Prius-III and Honda Insight-II.

Safety

The current conventionally powered US based A3 is already rated a “Top Safety Pick” by the IIHS for top frontal/side/rear crashes The 2.0L equipped A3 TDI will be no different.

Pricing and Availability

The US based Audi A3 2.0 TDI is expected to go on sale in the first quarter of 2010 as a 2010 model year vehicle. Pricing will be announced closer to the actual US launch.

Audi A3 during its initial European launch

http://www.youtube.com/v/HlBInTOzRsU&hl=en&fs=1

kngkeith
01-25-2009, 12:32 AM
Glad to see it coming. I am also happy that VW and Audi have been able to avoid the SCR route so far. I hope the uber-EGR systems hold up.
My fears regarding Urea will probably prove unwarranted, but from the literature I read the stuff seems more delicate than any other automotive fluid. It's effectiveness is easily compromised by the slightest of contamination, and its temperature range is just too small. Has anyone found info on Europe's experience with freezing Urea, something in the 0F (-17C) range? Info that does not originate from Euro manufacturers association, Ad-blue, or Benz? I know fleets are managing ok, but I'm trying to imagine the average North American car owner with his SCR equipped car sitting in -20F weather for 3 days. Will the frozen Urea damage the system, will its properties be compromised, will the car not run because the sensors read something wrong with the SCR system?

I look forward to driving a DSG trans someday. The automated mechanical trans in big trucks have been around for about 10 years. They've proven reliable enough that fleets keep ordering them. The few I've driven worked pretty well.

Keith

flatty
01-25-2009, 07:55 AM
CO emissions are 20% less than the gasser, too.

seftonm
01-25-2009, 04:56 PM
Hi Keith, from what I have read, when AdBlue thaws it has the same properties as before it was frozen. The Audis, BMW's, and Mercedes are apparently all using a passive urea tank of about 17L and a ~6L heated active tank, with heated urea dosing lines as well. I'm not sure how the passive tank is supposed to thaw out, though.

I think urea is here to stay. Future emissions standards are just going to get tighter and a few forecasts that I have seen say that urea will be playing a part in getting diesels to meet them.

jkp1187
01-25-2009, 05:25 PM
My wife is going to need a new vehicle probably in a year or two. I will see if she might be interested in this one. It looks good. And I'm especially happy about the lack of urea -- as I usually am when urea isn't around.

;)

How has reliability been for Audi lately?

xcel
01-25-2009, 06:45 PM
Hi Jkp:

___I do not know about reliability but if there was ever a luxury automobile I would like to drive, an Audi takes down Lexus, MB and BMW with its look and feel of the cockpit. Not that I have sat behind the wheel of that many other than auto shows but Audi's lux driver always shows through further than the other 3 marques for whatever reason???

___The only item I would be concerned with is your local Audi dealership knowing what is going on with regards to the 2.0L TDI. Since the Q5 and Q7 TDI's will be out, the less complicated A3 should not be a problem for a tech.

___The 2.0L TDI is the exact engine that is used in the VW and Audi's overseas from my discussion with them in the past. Other than the emissions controls that is. If so, I believe it will be more reliable then the 1.9L it replaced given the more robust electronic tech vs. the mechanical solenoid injectors used in the past to name just one area of concern.

___Mike (Sefton), have you read of any issues with the new 2.0 in the VW's yet?

___I have a few requests in to drive the A3 w/ the 2.0L TDI when it becomes available but if Audi is anything like VW, we will never hear back from them.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

jkp1187
01-25-2009, 08:24 PM
I only mention it because I know that VW reliability (and customer service) has been pretty bad for a while. Someone on TDIClub even said something to the effect of: buying a brand-new VW is like buying a brand-new car without a warranty. (Hyperbole, sure, but I recall the Consumer Reports ratings being below average for a while, too.)

It isn't the engine that worries me -- that'll be a tank engine that'll go for 30 years/500,000 miles, I'm sure. It's everything else -- the transmission, the brakes, the electrical system, accessories, etc. The stuff that, when it breaks out of warranty, is expensive to fix. That's where VW was having trouble.

I'll definitely be interested in seeing if they improve. We test-drove an A3 a while ago, and were impressed with it.

seftonm
01-26-2009, 03:21 AM
___Mike (Sefton), have you read of any issues with the new 2.0 in the VW's yet?

___I have a few requests in to drive the A3 w/ the 2.0L TDI when it becomes available but if Audi is anything like VW, we will never hear back from them.

___Good Luck

___Wayne
I've heard of one engine related issue so far. Some have reported a hesitation that feels a bit like a misfire when the engine isn't quite warm yet. People are guessing that it could be a software issue or maybe the engine is more sensitive to fuel quality than previous ones, but nobody is exactly sure yet. It also seems like it might be related to driving through rolling hills.

Initially, the DPF regen cycle and noises it made were a bit confusing. The DPF gets very hot during the regen, and airflow from the moving vehicle is usually used to cool it down. If the vehicle slows down or stops, the radiator fans kick in to compensate and they can get reasonably loud. For a while, people didn't know why the radiator fans seemed to be coming on for no apparent reason, but now I think most owners have it figured out.

It's too early to tell much about the new engine as there are only a handful with more than 15k miles on them. I think the hardware in it is reasonably good. It's closely related to the older 2.0 PD -- bore, stroke, and displacement are the same. The CR injection system is a bit newer, but Europe still had it a year before us. The software and emissions control are much newer and are probably a more likely source for potential problems. Time will tell.

I really hope you get to drive the A3 TDI. It's not too surprising to me that VW hasn't given you a reply -- VW of America doesn't seem to have a clue what is good for them.

lightfoot
01-26-2009, 08:23 AM
And I'm especially happy about the lack of urea -- as I usually am when urea isn't around.


You're "around" it pretty much all the time, though the quantity varies cyclically.:D

Maxx
01-26-2009, 11:18 AM
If past VW diesels are any indication, I wouldn't recommend one unless you are willing to get your hands dirty. VW techs are notoriously incapable of grasping the TDI's nuances, I can only assume the same goes for Audi. I'll bet it's a hoot, though.

flatty
01-26-2009, 01:01 PM
Didn't see mention here, but there will be 2 versions of the 2.0 TDI, the VW with 140hp and the dialed-up version for Audi(?) that turns out 170hp and requires the additional emissions handling.

xcel
01-26-2009, 03:49 PM
Hi Flatty:

___Audi stated the A3's 2.0L would be the 140HP version but they do have the 170 HP version available as seen in the Convertible concept we reported on a week or so ago. Either one they choose, I doubt they will offer two variants for the same vehicle?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Maxx
01-26-2009, 04:33 PM
Typical VW style. They release the motor, then to keep it fresh, they bump up the power.

Kermit
01-26-2009, 05:24 PM
There was a lot of hypermiling going on in their trip. I'm sure the MPG rating will be much closer to the Jetta.

I was about 3 car lengths behind a semi on my way from Memphis to Dallas, and the A3 and the SUV pulled inbetween me and the semi, the A3 was 3-5 feet from the truck MAX. With the SUV about 1/2 a car length behind them.

I've got a picture of both cars, I'll post the pictures when I get home. I was excited to see all the TDI's on the road.

xcel
01-26-2009, 05:39 PM
Hi Kermit:

___Popular Mechanics or maybe it was Pop Sci posted a pic of one of their guys in a Close-In while driving the Q5 IIRC and it was just like you described... I cannot wait to see your pics.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Kermit
01-26-2009, 08:47 PM
A3 from behind.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3477/3230398820_ab869dd909.jpg

A3 from behind/side.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3406/3230399262_d42246be4f.jpg

A3 with Q7.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3360/3229548751_0e9dc81b36.jpg

I didn't get a straight on side shot because I stayed behind this truck but at a little safer distance. I'd like to know how many tickets they got, I'm sure they got caught at least once. I saw about 12 cars total, a few of them twice.

xcel
01-26-2009, 09:15 PM
Hi Kermit:

___Thanks for being in the right place at the right time...

___Some of the Journalists on this run I had spoke with in AZ last month were bragging up the drive and their FE. To bad as the A3 all by itself is worth another 25-percent more than they earned while being 100% legal. Although the average speed would have dropped the average speed by maybe 10 mph.
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/A3_in_a_Close-in.jpg
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/A3_in_a_Close-in_from_the_side.jpg
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/A3_and_Q7_in_a_Close-in_from_the_side.jpg

And Popular Mechanics Q7 review during the Mileage Marathon...

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/Q7_in_a_close-in.jpg

___Good Luck

___Wayne

jkp1187
01-27-2009, 03:55 PM
Wow...holy tailgating, Batman.

:Banane18:

PaleMelanesian
01-27-2009, 05:37 PM
For the record:

CleanMPG DOES NOT recommend drafting. It is dangerous and illegal. Please don't take these pictures as even condoning it. There are better, safer, legal ways to improve mileage.

Just in case there was any confusion about the inclusion of these photos.



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