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U.S. sales of the PT Cruiser plunged 49 percent last year. (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aCLJhN4i0sRk&refer=home)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/PT_Cruiser_001.jpg Mike Ramsey - Bloomberg – Jan 14, 2009

Q: Where was the PT Cruiser built? It's not Michigan. -- Ed.

Chrysler LLC, pruning its lineup to save money, will stop building the PT Cruiser (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pt_cruiser) this year and is seeking buyers for the equipment used to make the model, President Tom LaSorda said.

Production “ends this summer,” LaSorda said today in a telephone interview. “Would we sell those assets? Yes. Do we have any offers to sell those assets? No. Would we be pursuing a buyer? Yes.”

The PT Cruiser, with a rounded body to mimic 1930s-style station wagons, would be the seventh model to be canceled since Cerberus Capital Management LP bought Chrysler in August 2007. The third-largest U.S. automaker is using $4 billion in federal loans to stay in business while reshaping operations to end losses... http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aCLJhN4i0sRk&refer=home

Yet another car that actually gets good reviews from its owners goes on the chopping block. Wow.

They never learn.

If they want to end something, end the Sebring.

The PT Cruiser is Chrysler's third best seller. You'd think it would junk some gashog truck and SUV models, but they make more profit - at least when one moves out the door.

The end of this car was coming. All of my generation has viewed the car as a yuppie-mobile. This car is damn ugly, and there's no getting around that. Besides its ugly looks it doesn't really have anything going for it. It's not really very FE, can't carry that much cargo or that many passengers, and doesn't set any standards in luxury or features. I would never ever think of buying one of these when I could get a much much classier car for the same price.

I'm not lamenting the PT Cruiser's passing.
However in its defense:

A drummer friend of mine loads his entire drum kit into his PT Cruiser.
Tall people sit more comfortably in the back of that car/truck than in the back of most other vehicles.

I was unimpressed with its mid-20's fuel economy. Like most US-market cars, even the base engine version was probably overpowered.

Wow. I just checked EPA numbers and the full size Ford Taurus and Toyota Avalon both get better mileage than the PT Cruiser. No wonder it isn't selling.

U.S. sales of the PT Cruiser plunged 49 percent last year. (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aCLJhN4i0sRk&refer=home)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/PT_Cruiser_001.jpg Mike Ramsey - Bloomberg – Jan 14, 2009

Q: Where was the PT Cruiser built? It's not Michigan. -- Ed.


No, but close. It's made in Mexico.

The end of this car was coming. All of my generation has viewed the car as a yuppie-mobile. This car is damn ugly, and there's no getting around that. Besides its ugly looks it doesn't really have anything going for it. It's not really very FE, can't carry that much cargo or that many passengers, and doesn't set any standards in luxury or features. I would never ever think of buying one of these when I could get a much much classier car for the same price.

I agree.

A while back, some market research company called me to conduct a survey. A lot of the questions concerned the PT Cruiser, and how I felt about it. My answers were that I wasn't the slightest bit interested in it.

The last thing I want is some retro POS with lousy fuel economy and dubious reliability and durability.

Chrysler, retro works for the Harley crowd. It doesn't work with car buyers.

Harry

Chrysler, retro works for the Harley crowd. It doesn't work with car buyers.

Harry[/QUOTE]

I tend to agree with you regarding the PT Cruiser. However, if retro doesn't work with car buyers, you better get the message to VW and Mini so they can hurry up and cancel the Beetle and the Mini.

Worst. Rental. Car. Ever.

Wow. I just checked EPA numbers and the full size Ford Taurus and Toyota Avalon both get better mileage than the PT Cruiser. No wonder it isn't selling.

That's not why it's not selling. It's not selling because it's basically the same car as it was back in 2000. Also, it's now seen as a "chick" car and no one wants one of those.

I tend to agree with you regarding the PT Cruiser. However, if retro doesn't work with car buyers, you better get the message to VW and Mini so they can hurry up and cancel the Beetle and the Mini.

The Beetle is the new beetle, not the old beetle. The Mini is the Mini. They didn't come up with something that's supposed to look retro like the Mini. There's a big difference between continuing with a successful car, and coming out with a new car that's a retro design.

Retro for retro sake is foolish. I don't want a car that looks like a hot rod. I want a sensible car that is efficient. Looks and style are second to function. The PT Cruiser has that backwards.

What's the fuel efficiency of the Mini versus the PT Cruiser? From what I hear, the Mini is great fun to drive. The PT Cruiser? It's all looks, like all of Chrysler's offerings.

Harry

Hi All,

The problem with Retro, is well, its Retro. There are reasons why cars were changed in design, and this car is emblematic.

People I know with this car are luke warm on it after a few years.They actually like the looks. I think it gives them warm happy days feelings. Even though most were not in high shool in 1935 to 1945. So, this to me is a bit of a marketing illusion. Still, they like it. And Honda Element has been compared to a Korean War MASH/WW I battle field ambulance. The buyers of these cars like the way this car looks too.

But the consequences of the looks , except for load volume, are serious detriments. Specifcally, if you have ever been in one the aero noise, and the caveronous interior reverberations make it a very loud experience. It has even more aero noise than a new Beetle.

All that aero noise reduces mileage when one is above 45 mph. And the noise causes driver fatique. So, these are not the best cars for long range highway driving.

For hilly, close-together areas, with vehicle property taxes (the PT looses value quickly which saves tax payment costs) there is a certain logic to purchasing a PT. Especially if its used for a service company vehicle.

Started a poll on this thread.

Just look at the line of Chrysler vehicles.

Anyone other than me get the impression that it would scare the Hell out of them to make a streamlined car with a Cd of 0.28 or better because it's "girly?"

Would not be suprized it Chrysler designers listened only to the guys with the lifted trucks...ever been to a forum listening to their crap? They are so afraid of being a girly man it drives them to act like a......can't print that, so lets just say idiotic thug. ;)

With a slogan of "Grab life by the horns", bulky vehicles like the Durango, Ram, Calibre, Nitro, it almost seems like they would rather die than make a decently aerodynamic car.

They may get their wish.

Worst. Rental. Car. Ever.

The dubious honor of that, at least in my book, belongs to the Buick Lucerne.

I pushed a button on the dash and it fell clean through, exposing all the electronic wiring, gizmos, etc. behind it.

The indignity of Worst Car Ever is highly competitive.

Edsel
Vega
Pinto
Corvair
AMC Pacer
XXX-bodies like the Chevy Citation
Diesel Oldsmobile
Yugo (too bad this was not built in Venezuela :p )I'm sure there are other suggestions....lets set up a pol in a thread for crappiest carl!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacefrog_0521
Worst. Rental. Car. Ever.

The dubious honor of that, at least in my book, belongs to the Buick Lucerne.

I pushed a button on the dash and it fell clean through, exposing all the electronic wiring, gizmos, etc. behind it.

That's the "Take me back to the dealer" button. You press it and then you have a reason to take the car in for warranty repair. The button itself probably doesn't do anything, but of course we wouldn't know for sure because they're labeled with international symbols and no words. The warning lights are just as bad. There's one in the dash cluster that's shaped like a crescent wrench. When it illuminates, you "raise the hood and beat the relay and fuse block with any large wrench that resembles the warning light until the light goes out, and then have your vehicle towed in for service".

In all fairness, most rental cars are bad examples of how a personal car would perform and stand the test of time. I drove a rental Camry years ago and had formed my opinion of the Camry based on its apparent performance and quality, and I was misled. That thing was falling apart and rode like a taxi. I remember describing it to friends and family as a "Japanese '73 Nova" and I could never figure out why people bothered with them. A ride in another car a year or two later proved that the Camry isn't so bad after all.

The PT Cruiser (aka Neon Hatchback), died of neglect. Just like so many other Detroit offerings. No updates or enhancements, nothing to tempt new buyers. For the price of a PT or less, you can buy a Fit or a Yaris or a Vibe/Matrix and get a newer design with better FE and no loss of cargo flexibility.

The indignity of Worst Car Ever is highly competitive.

Edsel
Vega
Pinto
Corvair
AMC Pacer
XXX-bodies like the Chevy Citation
Diesel Oldsmobile
Yugo (too bad this was not built in Venezuela :p )I'm sure there are other suggestions....lets set up a pol in a thread for crappiest carl!!!

I had two from this list (a Caprice with the Olds Diesel) and a Vega. The Vega never topped 13mpg (unbelievable but true) and the Caprice Diesel lasted for several trouble-free years (unbelievable but true) until I started using a 20% kerosene mix to improve performance/economy and the injector pump didn't like that blend too much.

The Corvair platform - spawned three other disasters :

The Pontiac Tempest (LeMans) - A car that required you to loosen the bolts on the engine mounts in order to shim the rear semi-trailing arms in order to adjust rear toe-in. And that was recommended every 6000 miles. The driveshaft was a torsion bar encased in a heavy and rigid steel box. The engine up front and the transaxle at the rear formed two masses over each axle, rigidly bolted together, and vibrating and shuddering on soft rubber mounts. In addition to the poor ride quality, the handling was particularly bad because the rear suspension was the same swing arm design used in the Corvair.

The Olds F-85 (Cutlass) - The "worst" car within the history of my family would be a '63 Olds F85 owned by my parents in the mid 60s. Engine - Aluminum 215 V8 that overheated all the time - you could hear it whistle like a tea kettle. Spark plugs would weld themselves into the helicoils so you could never change them. Transmission - Slim Jim automatic that would need a new governor assembly once a year, and only on snowy days under 20F. Driveshaft - Two piece with a constant velocity joint that is unreliable and requires dang near complete removal of the driveline to replace. Not counting reliability, it was a good looking car and had a comfortable ride. But the powertrain was too many new/unproven ideas all bundled into one package.

The Buick Special (Skylark) - Same aluminum V8, same flaky and trouble-prone driveshaft. But this one had an air-cooled automatic transmission that would overheat in traffic and eventually burn itself out.

So maybe the poll can include one really bad car and also the evil step-sisters that share many of the faults of the poll candidate and introduced a few extras of their own.

I would exempt the Hummer and similar SUVs because the quality is not as bad as this list

It's problem was the messages it sent.

10 Cars That Sank Detroit (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18364)

Its the only Chrysler product I would think about! H

The indignity of Worst Car Ever is highly competitive.
Edsel
Vega
Pinto
Corvair
AMC Pacer
XXX-bodies like the Chevy Citation
Diesel Oldsmobile
Yugo (too bad this was not built in Venezuela :p )I'm sure there are other suggestions....lets set up a pol in a thread for crappiest carl!!!

Behold, the Car Talk worst cars of the (last) millennium list! Some real hilarious "recommendations" too...

http://www.cartalk.com/content/features/Worst-Cars/

I like the idea of a poll, though -- we should do one for THIS millennium.

man that hummer just gets exempt from everything huh..:).

I think it makes the crappy car list because on a greater scale, what is making it easier for the entire country to be more susceptible to terrorism? Think about it....All americans rolling around in hummers...

That was actually quite funny!

I half-jokingly said a collary to Godwin's Law is the Hummer....just like in a heated arguement Hitler and the Nazis get over mentioned, so does the Hummer.

Putting the Hummer on a poll and lots of people will not evaluate other trash-cans on wheels. :(

Whatever you say about the Hummer, it's not going to be the first to fall apart....rather it's the statements it makes.

Yesterday in the parking lot was an H2 as an advert for a retirement center....they get Medicare/Medicaid funding - don't they? :mad:

Behold, the Car Talk worst cars of the (last) millennium list! Some real hilarious "recommendations" too...

http://www.cartalk.com/content/features/Worst-Cars/

I like the idea of a poll, though -- we should do one for THIS millennium.

Hmm... We had a Plymouth Volare station wagon ('78 I think)...

Yeah, the tranny got recalled, and the front end got recalled, but we still got well over 250K miles out of the original engine and tranny. It finally got parked after the front end totally gave up the ghost.

Tranny was a manual 4-speed, but you didn't want to put it into 2nd or you would never get it out. My parents never did take it in for the recall (tranny or front end). I learned to drive on this car (and an '80 Chevy Luv).

That was one engine they did well. The old Slant 6.

Opinion from someone who actually OWNED and DROVE PT Cruisers(and not for just a week or two).
They were NOT a Neon hatchback. The original concept, called the "pronto cruiser", was based on a Neon platform. That's a pretty common practice when building concept cars. The actual production PT had a completely different rear suspension, a flat load floor, different engine and transmission, and different front suspension. Not a Neon

Ugly is subjective. There is NO getting around THAT. Some treat it as fact. I think the Honda Civic is putrid looking. That's subjective, my opinion. VERY few cars are universally regarded as ugly(IE Aztek). I also think the new Accord is hideous looking. Again, my opinion. Same may share, some may disagree, but that's OK, because i don't treat it as fact.

Lousy FE? Yep, i agree. Car was too heavy. The old 2.4 DC motor was not a paragon of efficiency. Their 2.7 V6 got better FE than the 2.4. Dubious durability and reliability. No, i had better luck with the 2 that i owned (AN 01 and an 02) than i had with the 2 Honda Accords i owned. Both gave me years of 100% problem free driving. They actually were rated pretty high in terms of reliability.

Yuppie car? I guess some yuppies bought them. I submit that FAR more yuppies bought Accords and 3 series BMW's than PT cruisers.

Can't carry much cargo?? Anyone who thinks that hasn't owned one. I once hauled a gas dryer home form Sears in mine(in the box, and i was able to close the hatch). I also hauled a small upright freezer i bought at Lowes.

Yes, the PT did die from neglect. It had one minor update, which was merely cosmetic. Now, what Chrysler SHOULD have done was sell it here with the 2.2CRD diesel. That would have been good for 40+ MPG economy. That would have given them a high mileage small car, and they would have sold a lot of them in 2008. Instead, they made Commanders and Aspens.

I no longer own my PT's (traded my 01 in 2 years ago), but i wouldn't hesitate to buy another one tomorrow. Of course, i wouldn't buy a new one, i would buy a 1 or 2 year old one, since their resale is in the toilet. Makes a great deal for used transportation.

BTW, you CAN squeeze 30+ out of them, but it aint easy!

I loved the comments about the Vega on the cartalk link! Having owned 3 of them in the past, i can agree

"When the rear end went on my Vega, the Chevy dealer accused me of racing it. Racing who? My grandfather in his wheelchair?"

"As near as I could tell, the car was built from compressed rust.

"My Chevy Vega actually broke in half going over railroad tracks. The whole rear end came around slightly to the front, sort of like a dog wagging its tail."

"Burned so much oil, it was single handedly responsible for the formation of OPEC."

BTW, you CAN squeeze 30+ out of them, but it aint easy!
And that's just unacceptable. I can squeeze 35 mpg out of my HUGE V6 Odyssey, and usually get over 30.

I never saw the PT Cruiser as a "chick car." I've always seen at least as many men as women driving them. In fact, it has always seemed to me a guy's car -- an old guy's car, that is. It's appeal appears to be greatest among buyers to be quite a bit older than the average/

Yuppie car? Huh?? No idea where that perception could come from. It's not exactly upscale enough for that!

I definitely liked the idea of the PTC when it came out though -- it was one of the first of the small wagons that have thankfully made a comeback this decade. And available in an MT! But once the Chevy HHR came out, it seemed like the Chevy was basically the same concept with better execution and not quite as much old-guy vibe.

I don't think I saw a single guy driving a PT Cruiser. Ever. There's a few "chick cars" out there: the Jetta comes to mind, and pretty much any non-riced civic.

Oh, and I've only seen *one* other guy driving an Echo, and that's Charlie (booferama), here on CleanMPG. And I see quite a few Echo's tooling around campus.


Quick little thing on the Vega: I heard from a guy who said it burned a quart of oil every hundred miles. When it got up to 60k, the brake pedal broke off as he came up to a stop light... rear-ended the car in front, Vega totaled. Good riddance, he'd said.

I


Quick little thing on the Vega: I heard from a guy who said it burned a quart of oil every hundred miles. .

I can believe this. I used to buy gallon jugs of SAE30 oil, and carry a few in the trunk of my Vega along with an empty quart can(no plastic bottle of oil back then). Every time i filled the tank with gas, i put a quart of oil in.
Never had to change the oil in that car, it did it by itsellf
Thanks GM!!

Chrysler has had streamlined cars fairly recently.

The Crossfire is the best one I can think of right now.

Worst. Rental. Car. Ever.

Agreed. I tried to avoid it but I'm stuck with one now. I rented a Corolla a month ago and it did ~10MPG better. I've gotten better mileage in a V6 Mustang convertible, and that car was much cooler. I don't know how the PT has lasted so long.

Count me in amongst the PT Cruiser rental people. It just drove horribly, which is a shame.

My view on the PT Cruiser is that it couples a great form factor with some really terrible design and engineering. Build that car, make it look good, and make it work properly, and Chrysler should have had some seriously good sales numbers. Maybe Fiat will give it a try...

Something that I learned when I worked in car rental is that unless you're the first renter, you can't tell much about the car's quality. People thrash rental cars inside and out. About all you can say for sure is whether the agency had enough time/skill to fix things properly since the car's last thrashing. The worst rental car is the one that came back late from its previous rental when you came in early to pick it up.

My impression is that Chrysler is axing the PTC partly because they think it competes with the Caliber which is similarly sized and more up to date. Maybe they'll put a Chrysler badge on a Caliber clone? Maybe they'll build Fiats in the PTC plant?

Re: Click and Clack's list:

I owned a 78 Aspen Coupe with the 4 speed overdrive manual transmission and slant 6 that I "hypermiled" before I knew the word. I got 31- 34 MPG on the highway averaging about 61 MPH. That motor liked low RPMs like no other I've owned. The car had OK but not great reliability for me--let's just say that I don't complain about fuel injection.

In all fairness, most rental cars are bad examples of how a personal car would perform and stand the test of time. I drove a rental Camry years ago and had formed my opinion of the Camry based on its apparent performance and quality, and I was misled. That thing was falling apart and rode like a taxi. I remember describing it to friends and family as a "Japanese '73 Nova" and I could never figure out why people bothered with them. A ride in another car a year or two later proved that the Camry isn't so bad after all.


I've actually had pretty fair luck with most rental cars I've driven, and I used to drive a lot. In fact I bought my Mazda Tribute 6 years ago after having driven a Ford Escape rental. Similarly, I was impressed enough with the Hyundai Sonata I drove a couple years ago that I finally bought one last month. About four years ago when I was on assignment in Mexico I had a Hyundai Accent for about a month, which I beat silly on Mexican roads (actually they weren't much worse than Detroit roads!), and it never complained. I once rented a Chevy Aveo and I loved the interior so much I wanted to steal the headrest out of it, just because it had fore-aft adjustment. Nearly every rental car I've had has impressed me to some degree or another. I very nearly bought a Ford Focus last month because I had a rental at the time and really liked the heated leather seats and Microsoft SYNC system. Alas, I couldn't find a used one in the style I wanted, and didn't want to buy a brand new one, even with Employee Pricing Plus.

My PT Cruiser rental experience included a drivers-side window which wouldn't fully close, and 23 mpg highway, and very uncomfortable seats (which our company produced!) with cheap vinyl headrests which inspired the even cheaper-looking headrests in the Caliber/Compass/Patriot.

Something that I learned when I worked in car rental is that unless you're the first renter, you can't tell much about the car's quality. People thrash rental cars inside and out. About all you can say for sure is whether the agency had enough time/skill to fix things properly since the car's last thrashing. The worst rental car is the one that came back late from its previous rental when you came in early to pick it up.


True, I learned this both the easy way and the hard way. I rented a Ford Focus last month that was brand-new with only 50 miles on it, and had a great two-week period with it.

I wound up buying a Hyundai Sonata that was formerly a rental. Found out later that it had been in an accident, don't know how serious. Didn't show up on the Carfax report and I'm ashamed that I didn't see the evidence myself. It drives and looks OK, but when I took it to the dealer to have a door noise fixed under warranty, they figured it out in about two minutes. The plastic shielding between the front fender and the door wasn't set properly and was interfering with the door causing a noise. They also pointed out the rub marks on the door frame and the armrest.

T Didn't show up on the Carfax report .


NEVER trust carfax. They suck!! What you experienced has happened to 3 different people i know. In addition, they screw uop in the OTHER direction also.

I had bought a 1 year old Stratus from the dealer where my brother works. It had 15K on it, and it was a former budget rental car. I knew this and didn't care, i was getting the certified 8/80 warranty. It had stickered for $21K new and i got it for $10,500, it had been on the road for all of 9 months.
The car was flawless. I was able to get it up to 34MPG(before i knew anything about hypermiling), and since it was a powerful V6 i was happy with that.
Well, after a few years i decided i wanted a sports car, so i put the Stratus up for sale. I had a buyer lined up, made all the arrangements to transfer title and everything, when the guy emails me and tells me that the carfax he ran showed me as the third owner, and he got spooked and wanted out of the deal. I had told him the cars history truthfully. Rental car that went to a Chrysler dealer auction where the dealer got it and i bought it from them. He didn't believe me and trusted the almighty carfax and bailed on the deal.
What carfax did was count the dealer who bought the car at auction as a TITLED OWNER. If i wanted the record to be corrected then i had to get proof from the PA DMV and submit it to carfax, and then, within 4-8 weeks, they would correct the record!!! Between all the phone calls, emails and faxes i had to do, i spent almost 5 hours of time, and it took them 7 weeks to fix the record.

So yea, i am not real fond of, or very trusting of carfax.

NEVER trust carfax. They suck!! What you experienced has happened to 3 different people i know. In addition, they screw uop in the OTHER direction also.

I had bought a 1 year old Stratus from the dealer where my brother works. It had 15K on it, and it was a former budget rental car. I knew this and didn't care, i was getting the certified 8/80 warranty. It had stickered for $21K new and i got it for $10,500, it had been on the road for all of 9 months.
The car was flawless. I was able to get it up to 34MPG(before i knew anything about hypermiling), and since it was a powerful V6 i was happy with that.
Well, after a few years i decided i wanted a sports car, so i put the Stratus up for sale. I had a buyer lined up, made all the arrangements to transfer title and everything, when the guy emails me and tells me that the carfax he ran showed me as the third owner, and he got spooked and wanted out of the deal. I had told him the cars history truthfully. Rental car that went to a Chrysler dealer auction where the dealer got it and i bought it from them. He didn't believe me and trusted the almighty carfax and bailed on the deal.
What carfax did was count the dealer who bought the car at auction as a TITLED OWNER. If i wanted the record to be corrected then i had to get proof from the PA DMV and submit it to carfax, and then, within 4-8 weeks, they would correct the record!!! Between all the phone calls, emails and faxes i had to do, i spent almost 5 hours of time, and it took them 7 weeks to fix the record.

So yea, i am not real fond of, or very trusting of carfax.

When I was thinking of selling my Impala a few years ago, I ran a Carfax and saw that they'd done the same thing to me. The dealer I'd purchased it from had obtained the car from auction and was listed as the second owner.