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I have heard nothing from the general media nor from forums such as this...where is all the electricity to power all the new electric vehicles going to come from.
Here in the upper Midwest, new power plants are anathema (coal/hydro/nuclear)...
even our wind generator farms are being opposed as being unsightly!
In addition, the US electric power grid is so outdated that any additional demand
gets close to full black-outs.
Has anyone computed how much additional electrical generation is going to be required to
replace the billions of gallons of gasoline and diesel now propelling our vehicles?

Welcome to the site!

There have been studies done that indicate around 80% of our passenger vehicles could be converted to PHEV and demand could be met with existing architecture if charging is confined to night. Power plant output is mostly wasted at night (idling) when people are sleeping -- there is a lot of extra capacity available not being used at all. Overnight charging would not be an issue for the percentage mentioned.

I've wondered the same thing. What happens when Sunday night millions of people remember that they have to plug in their car because they have to go to work the next day?

The same thing that happens when they plug their cars in every other night of the week?

The hydro company could put the outlets used for charging cars on wireless devices which let them control the time the car charges. This way you don't have to depend on people having to think. Which from my experience, is not something you want to rely on.

Sound far fetched? Already in Toronto they have developed a wireless network where the power company will actually turn off your A/C for you during peak hours if you say it's ok for them to do this. I'm sure the same could be done for EV outlets.

I thought they turned the temperature up, reducing the need for AC, and didn't just kill the power to the A/C unit.

There are many areas that have demonstration level technolgies along this path. Many homes/businesses in California have this, and receive a reduction in their electriciy costs as an incentive.

http://misirach-org.chilledserver.com/Portals/1/BenHur.jpg

Classic, Chuck!!! :D

Welcome to the site!

There have been studies done that indicate around 80% of our passenger vehicles could be converted to PHEV and demand could be met with existing architecture if charging is confined to night. Power plant output is mostly wasted at night (idling) when people are sleeping -- there is a lot of extra capacity available not being used at all. Overnight charging would not be an issue for the percentage mentioned.

I mention that study a lot to folks to explain the beautiful synergy between PHEVs/EVs and our grid.

But part of me wonders if that marriage will be as elegant as we hope. After all, when will most start recharging? Probably around 6:00 p.m. or so. That's not midnight. It's still around the tail end of peak usage.

I can envision a lot of ordinances designed to discourage any recharging until 10:00 p.m. You know, like how I get frowned on if I don't water my lawn on Tues/Friday.

While many cities do charge on peak/off peak rates, many don't (including Austin). That will have to become standard. You've got to give people a carrot to plug in during non-peak.

The real forward thinking utilities will provide $20 timers automatically set to off peak hours to allow EV owners to plug in at any time yet charge during off peak.

Yes, a timer is a cheap solution to that issue. :)

After all, when will most start recharging? Probably around 6:00 p.m. or so. That's not midnight. It's still around the tail end of peak usage.

I can envision a lot of ordinances designed to discourage any recharging until 10:00 p.m. You know, like how I get frowned on if I don't water my lawn on Tues/Friday.

Yeah... Think about my situation. If I wait until 10pm to plug something in, I'm already asleep. Getting up a 4 am doesn't sit well with this stuff.

Heck, it just isn't that much energy.An average electric car should get about 4-5 miles on one Killowatt hour. 20 miles worth of range will be about 4 KWH- 40-60 cents worth of electricity.

If they take 4 hours to fill up, they will only be using an extra 1 KWH per hour. Our central AC uses about 4KWH per hour-a really big screen TV will use at least .5kwh per hour. A microwave is about 1 KWH per hour.

It just isn't that "big" a draw and it should and usually will be done at night when the ACs-central units- are off or turned way down.

I don't see a problem. Fuel prices will probably spike fairly fast in front of a recovery. Once that happens the wind turbine industry will spike again.
A crude calculation shows that it would take just 2 million turbines-and $2-$4 trillion dollars(includes about $500,000 per turbine for infra structure) to supply all our electrical energy needs-this includes 20 million or so electric cars. $2-$4 trillion just isn't that much $$ in light of the $$ we are paying out now for nothing-to banks etc.

These calculation were based on the current smaller turbines-25,000-producing 1% of our current electricity and costing $20 Billion. The newer ones should have more capacity(current average less than 1 megawatt) and they should be cheaper per unit of energy produced.

It would take about a 200 mile by 200 mile square of TX,OK to supply these needs. Obviously we won't put them all in TX- we have a HUGE COASTLINE( 8000 miles or so, I think) with plenty of wind.
I suspect that the USA has more wind potential than any other 2 countries on earth.Winds blow like heck in W TX and most sea/ocean coasts have reliable winds.

Obviously we have plenty of tidal/wind potential also. Blowing/moving fluids seem like they should be cheaper/easier than solar, but who knows.

Charlie

Yeah... Think about my situation. If I wait until 10pm to plug something in, I'm already asleep. ...

Delayed start cycles have been on self cleaning ovens and upscale clothes washers and dishwashers for decades. Separate timers for water heaters and other appliances have been around even longer.

Even intelligent chargers that would slow the charging rate to fit the amount of time remaining until the driver wants to take the car out in the morning, and the local utility's rate structure or preferred charging time, are technically simple compared to the car's engine controller.

Automatic control of the charger by the utility is a bit more of a challenge, but it will be coming on the heels of more widespread time-of-day metering.

http://misirach-org.chilledserver.com/Portals/1/BenHur.jpg
Mr. Wilson, I presume?;):D

Even intelligent chargers that would slow the charging rate to fit the amount of time remaining until the driver wants to take the car out in the morning, and the local utility's rate structure or preferred charging time, are technically simple compared to the car's engine controller.

My only problem with the intelligent chargers is that I never really know when I will be leaving. I have been in many situations where I get home at 7 pm, then get a call and have to leave the house at 1 am.

I know that situations like this are the minority, but it is something to keep in mind.

Seems like power companies will need a concept of internal metering or multiple metered flows into a house.

So you can plug into your regular outlet and charge however you like, or you can plug into a power company controlled outlet. You might start charging right away or you might not get any charge and have to run on petrol the next day. However, but using those controlled outlets, you get power at a discount.

My AC is metered seperately which the electric company (DTE) can turn off during peak loads (promise no more than 10min/hr) and charge a reduced rate for it. It has been that way for almost 20 years.