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GOP Senators wanted more concession from the UAW but no agreement (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/13/business/13auto.html)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/crushed_car.jpgDaven M Hershenhorn - New York Times - Dec 12, 2008

GM and Chrysler's fate uncertain -- Ed.

The Senate on Thursday night abandoned efforts to fashion a government rescue of the American automobile industry, as Senate Republicans refused to support a bill endorsed by the White House and Congressional Democrats.

The failure to reach agreement on Capitol Hill raised a specter of financial collapse for General Motors (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/general_motors_corporation/index.html?inline=nyt-org) and Chrysler (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/chrysler_llc/index.html?inline=nyt-org), which say they may not be able to survive through this month.

After Senate Republicans balked at supporting a $14 billion (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/c/credit_crisis/auto_industry/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) auto rescue plan approved by the House on Wednesday, negotiators worked late into Thursday evening to broker a deal but deadlocked over Republican demands for steep cuts in pay and benefits by the United Automobile Workers (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/united_automobile_workers/index.html?inline=nyt-org) union in 2009… http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/13/business/13auto.html

Think the story on UAW concessions is the Republicans wanted UAW on compensated on the level of the workers at Toyota, Honda, Nissan plants in the US by 2009, but the UAW would not do this before their contract does this in 2011.

The stock market will lose more value today than all the bailout plans put together.

This Republican stubborness is based entirely on past union support for Democrats.

The Republicans are playing politics while our passenger ship, the economy, is listing in the ice water of the North Atlantic.

Hope you all like hard times.



Harry

How, after setting the precedent of sending the banks up to $700B, can you deny the auto industry a loan of $15B to keep operating? Whether they "deserve" it or not, it makes very little sense to me considering what is at stake.

I don't know if I agree, Harry. I usually fall on the more liberal side of things, but if the only thing that sunk this was the UAW refusing to match salaries with their contemporaries in the industry then I'd say the UAW is at fault.

I can certainly understand the UAW not wanted to do this. The current issues are largely the fault of the management with only a tiny fraction of fault for the UAW. The fact remains that the UAW labor rates are uncompetitive.

Why should the American tax payer pay a premium to companies refusing to play by the rules the profitable guys are using?

The stock market will lose more value today than all the bailout plans put together.

This Republican stubborness is based entirely on past union support for Democrats.

The Republicans are playing politics while our passenger ship, the economy, is listing in the ice water of the North Atlantic.

Hope you all like hard times.



HarryIf this hurts the way I fear it will, some of the lost jobs will be the senators rejecting this bridge loan in 2010.

If this hurts the way I fear it will, some of the lost jobs will be the senators rejecting this bridge loan in 2010.

Yes, and Republicans in general. How are they going to become more popular in the voting booth? What do they stand for? They put the country deep in a hole, while claiming to be conservative, and now are taking what appears to be an anti-business stance, being reluctant to do what is needed to prevent a worse recession. I don't get it.

I agree the UAW needs to make concessions. I thought they already had, or were willing to.

It may be that a GM bankruptcy, with funding from the government, is the only way to get the UAW to see reason. It's unfortunate investors have to take a huge hit (including retirement funds) when people can't see the obvious, and come up with a plan.

I hate to see politics being played when peoples' lives are hanging in the balance.

Harry

BTW, the cover picture is a bit gruesome if you know what movie it's from and what happened.

BTW, the cover picture is a bit gruesome if you know what movie it's from and what happened.Like I need a frickin clue?

I cant beleive the UAW would rather see thier host companies go bankrupt and totally collapse rather than make one penny of consessions! How dumb can you get? There needs to be changes on both sides of the table, not only to make the automakers more viable, but to change the stranglehold the UAW has on the failing automakers.

The NYT articles does not mention it, but the debate is over timing. The Dems agreed to the same benefit cuts by 2011. The Republicans demanded 2009, and blocked the bill when they didn't get it.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2008-12-10-house-approves-auto-bailout-bill_N.htm

“Because Congress failed to act, we will stand ready to prevent an imminent failure until Congress reconvenes and acts to address the long-term viability of the industry,” said Brookly McLaughlin, a treasury spokeswoman.Gads! I guess that's one way to run a democracy (aka Representative Democratic Republic).
Pitch your idea to the people
Ask the people to write thier representatives
Send your lobbiest to the representatives to vote the way you want.
Take the vote.
If you don't like the answer, do what you wanted to do anyway.
Great day for the people. I really feel my voice is heard now.

11011011

Gads! I guess that's one way to run a democracy (aka Representative Democratic Republic).
Pitch your idea to the people
Ask the people to write thier representatives
Send your lobbiest to the representatives to vote the way you want.
Take the vote.
If you don't like the answer, do what you wanted to do anyway.
Great day for the people. I really feel my voice is heard now.

11011011

Ha. So let me get this straight. The bailout bill passed 52-35, so therefore it obviously failed. But no worries. A president who lost 48.1-48.2 in 2000 will use money from an earlier rescue package to get it through.

Got it.

Yet another example of the dinosaur union leaders out for their own gain rather than anyone under them....

Let GM and Chrysler fall. Hopefully Ford will learn.

I cant beleive the UAW would rather see thier host companies go bankrupt and totally collapse rather than make one penny of consessions! How dumb can you get? There needs to be changes on both sides of the table, not only to make the automakers more viable, but to change the stranglehold the UAW has on the failing automakers.

This is an excellent post and sums up my views on the unions perfectly.

QFT.

The union will make concessions, they just don't want the workers to bear the brunt of the cutbacks. I fail to see why everyone is blaming the line workers. The avg. pay is 28.00 an hour plus benefits, and no it's not 70.00 like some people have said. Lets face it the line worker doesn't have 3 or 4 houses in vacation spots. They don't use a company plane to fly them or there family to places. They don't have a chauffeur thats paid for by the company to take them from home to work and back. What's the cost of managements perks? How much does it cost for managements retirement packages? How much is managements medical and retirement medical. How much vacation does management get?
The US auto makers have been making vehicles for around 80 years or so. Toyota and Honda have only been making cars here in the US for about 20 years. NOBODY has really retired in mass yet from Toyota or Honda. They will have to go thru the same thing one day, unless they stop their retirement contributions which wouldn't surprise me. You know, no one needs to retire and you know the working slob doesn't need benefits. If he doesn't like the work let him find another job!!! Well I say that about management, if they don't like a livable wage then let them walk. I mean the way they've ran the biggest industry into the ground they should be tarred and feathered that and put in jail with "bubba". That would be interesting wouldn't it.
Yup just blame the working slob for being greedy, don't bother with the top brass, you know the ones that make the decisions on what vehicles to make. You know the ones that pushed the SUVs, the high horse powered vehicles, even as oil prices were going through the roof. The ones that pretty much stopped R&D for better mileage vehicles. The ones that bitched and whined about new cafe standards. Yep it's all the unions fault! Get FREAKING real!!! kevin

Yeah, its not like the UAW ever made concessions in the recent past or are willing to offer concessions as part of this bailout.

Oh wait...

http://www.counterpunch.org/sustar04102007.html
http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1864085,00.html
http://www.uaw.org/contracts/07/gm/index.php
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/99999999/AUTO01/706200481&template=theme&theme=Autos-UAW-talks

People in Michigan are talking about petitioning to join Canada:eek:.

I'm really wary of some of the things being done that are playing around with this country's future...yes, I'd like more concessions from the UAW, but they have made substantial ones and have the distinct impression Congress deliberately adjourned before they might have made more. :mad: This is all going to be one the table next year anyway, so why not let the next few weeks pound it on the UAW, Detroit management, etc. they all need haircuts?

It's looking like the GOP in the Senate was using the UAW as an excuse to vote this down. That or exacting payback. The packback motive shows how far the GOP has goine since 1980....back then Reagan Democrats voted Repulican because back then, they attempted to be inclusive to unions and blue collar workers. Now it seems the Republican's attitude (at least in the Senate) sounds like Blagojevich: **** them! :eek: Granted, many of them, esp. in Michigan and Ohio voted Obama, but do you really think "soft" Obama supporters are going to be intimidated to voting GOP in 2010 and 2012? I'll suggest that it will even erode the Republican base. This is not just politics - there are too many jobs dependant for that. I know exactly what it feels like for politics to play with my job to advance themselves...if there is one sure way the GOP can guarantee to become a permananent minority party for 20 or more years, just threaten a few million jobs at a time like this.

...I wonder how much money congress is burning up trying to figure if they should go up or down....anyone have any numbers?

I just learned last night that most of the southern Republican senators who killed this bill are from states that have major foreign car plants (Honda, Toyota, BMW, Benz, Hyundai, Mazda, VW -- hey, all my favorites!) in their own states.

Gee, and I had foolishly assumed they were opposing the bailout on some kind of principle. Oops, duh. How naive. I should have realized all along it was naked self interest as usual. Suddenly the fog has lifted and I can see that this is another skirmish in the ongoing class war. The battle lines have been drawn and I know which side I'm fighting for. Reporting for f***ing duty, America!

In one fell swoop, my friends, that simple realization has converted me from a grudging supporter of the bailout to a 100% red-blooded, meat-eatin', picket-wieldin' BAILOUT FREAKIN' BACKER. I'm ready to march in the streets over this one now, folks, arm in arm with Earthling on one side of me, Joe the Transmission Installer on the other, and CaliberMan71 bringing up the rear. Cheney was right when he said the Republicans are (re-) becoming the party of Herbert Hoover.

Don't get me wrong: I'm no fan of the p**sy Democratic senators right now either. Remember the Republicans raising all sorts of holy h*ll, even threatening a "nuclear option" of changing Senate rules if the Dems dared filibuster Bush's most heinous schemes? Now the Dems wield majorities in both houses and can't get anything done because of a few Republican obstructionists? W T F ?

Oh fer crying out loud on this union stuff guys. "Not a penny" of concessions? The UAW has made enormous concessions already. The foreign automakers don't even pay healthcare for their workers, let alone retirees, as Texashchman pointed out. Blaming the union for this is just plain absurd.

I'm ready to march in the streets over this one now, folks, arm in arm with Earthling on one side of me, Joe the Transmission Installer on the other, and CaliberMan71 bringing up the rear. Cheney was right when he said the Republicans are (re-) becoming the party of Herbert Hoover.

Check out this (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-l-borosage/herbert-hoover-time_b_150537.html) and this (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/12/cheney-to-gop-senators-it_n_150479.html) on the Herbert Hoover remark.

Both parties are messed up and putting themselves ahead of the country.

I just learned last night that most of the southern Republican senators who killed this bill are from states that have major foreign car plants (Honda, Toyota, BMW, Benz, Hyundai, Mazda, VW -- hey, all my favorites!) in their own states.

I saw that, and was shocked....what can I say...The dealers are bringing in more dough for these GOP guys n gals....They really don't see the need for sacrifice on their part.

Hmm, $700 billion for the bankers without a question asked, most of it gone to Swiss bank accounts I'm sure (Thanks, guys! Way to put my hard-earned money to work!) since the supposed purpose of "un-freezing credit markets" has not materialized. Done in a week.

Yet they're fighting over a mere $15 billion, pocket change in comparison, to help the struggling automakers. What a bunch of buffoons. Hmm, let's help a few hundred thousand people stay in their homes this winter by making sure they have a job! I bet none of the senators who voted this down have had to move themselves recently. Moving is bad enough in the summer, let alone in what is shaping to be one of the coldest and nastiest winters in years.

Ho, ho, ho! Merry Christmas, UAW! And Merry Christmas, America! Looks like coal underneath the tree will be a very welcome gift this year.