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I thought I'd start a thread for the "bad" drivers. Not enough to warrant a JOTD, but still bad - tailgating, honking, cutting off, etc.



And I'll go first.

Coming across the Ohio River... bug F150 Super Duty truck gets on my butt, holds there as I get onto the exit only lane... idiot then cuts over to the shoulder and goes around. I catch up to him as he's stuck in traffic half a mile away and now we're both stewing in the jam. A great opportunity to call in the guy's number (it was a work truck).

f150 is not a super duty but still a jerk none the less.

What happened to the *old* "examples of bad drivers" thread?
.
_H*

What happened to the *old* "examples of bad drivers" thread?
.
_H*

I beleive its in the daily grind section somewhere

Today I'd just merged onto the highway from an entrance I don't use often, climbing a hill I finally reached 45, and then came upon another on-ramp (less than a mile) it was full so I needed to move over to let the merging traffic on. An empty logging truck comes in hot, zooming along at well over the PSL of 60, I'd guess about 75-80 mph. The trucker gets so close to my rear that I can't see his headlights anymore (still got the glare all over the rear window and the DS wing mirror) He hangs out there until I could find a gap back in my lane (the slow one) then he blasts up the hill and is long gone.

Wow, there are so many "bad" drivers on the roads here in Cali, it's almost too much to list.

I'll start with what I noticed just today:

Truck riding up my butt even though I'm doing 60 in the right lane and he has 3 free lanes next to him to pass me on.

VW Beetle constantly braking and then accelerating on a long downhill slope, causing everyone behind (who just so happened to be tailgating) to brake.

Fully blacked-out pickup on raised suspension decides to try and push me out of the lane that I am just getting into.

Some woman in an Impala that I passed earlier while on a downhill slope seems to think that because I passed her before and that I am now doing 60, I was apparently being "aggressive" towards her, and so cuts me off with about 5 inches to spare before racing off to an exit a few hundred feet further.

Some guy in a beat up car cuts in front of me in the far right lane while I'm FASing on a steep decline and promptly starts to brake and decelerate, forcing me to move two lanes over (the middle lane on this downhill section is always full of idiot drivers who are constantly on their brakes, so the choice is either the slow lane or the fast lane).

Makes me want to place 10" long thick metal spikes on thefront and sides of my car. But that would just ruin my aero...

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j127/forbessw/DSCN2010.jpg

would tailgate then backoff then tailgate then backoff....repeat for about 3 miles and finally passed flipping me off.

Heh. Classic "Prius vs. Hummer" scenario! But the criteria
for who wins are still less than clear...
.
_H*

Aether-
Seems like a good size shoulder there, why not pull off and let that idiot by? Most times I'm not more than halfway into the shoulder and they're already gunning it past me.

Keith

I'll give Ryan the benefit of the doubt.

Yes, let the jerks pass, but this week someone was on my tail for a mile or so before they realized: "I could have passed him all this time" :confused:

Aether-
Sorry, did not want to hit you personally on this one. My concern is the overall tone of these threads. How is it that we are surprised that people get angry when we inconvenience them? Hypermiling calls for a good dose of humility.

Keith

I wouldn't have pulled into the shoulder to let them pass. I have as much right to the road as they do & I won't be bullied. Besides, in most states its illegal to drive on the shoulders except for emergencies. I'm not doing something illegal so someone else can get far more convience than they deserve.

I can only speak for Texas here. It's written in the state driving code to drive on the shoulder to allow faster traffic to pass. Not required, but acceptable and courteous.

From this source: http://law.onecle.com/texas/transportation/545.058.00.html
§ 545.058. DRIVING ON IMPROVED SHOULDER. (a) An operator
may drive on an improved shoulder to the right of the main traveled
portion of a roadway if that operation is necessary and may be done
safely, but only:
...
(5) to allow another vehicle traveling faster to pass;

It's one of those situations you probably had to be there.

If they are just in a hurry or not thinking - no problem.

When I've been obviously bullied, I can be uncooperative.

I have as much right to the road as they do & I won't be bullied

Sigh

Should I conclude you are more interested in being right than safe? Again, hypermiling requires a good dose of humility.

This issue is not the specific circumstance, the issue is courteousness. If someone is getting jacked up around me, I will do my part in dissipating that no matter how wrong they are. It's the adult thing to do. They want to make driving a competetive event, and I won't play.

When we make a commitment to hypermile we are making a choice that is broader than going slower and DWB. Any time we drive differently than generally accepted practice, we stand out. We are leaders for that moment.

Keith

Should I conclude you are more interested in being right than safe?

Yes you conclude correctly, and frankly standing up for yourself is part of being an adult too. Bullies remain as such because people allow it. When all people say no to such nonsense, the world will be a better place. I agree courtesy is needed. When a driver is behind me and being courteous to me, I will make some effort to help them on their way. I won't do illegal things and I won't be silly about it, but given an opportunity I'll do what I can.

Again, as a philosophy student, I also like to take the argument to the extreme and see if its holds up. So, if we take your idea and push it to its limits...a foreign power comes in with massive force. Their intent is to take possession all of our properly and enslave our population. Per your argument, if we know they will let us live & provide certain minimums we should let them do so without a fight. After all, a fight would involve a risk of us or them getting hurt. Obviously you aren't suggesting anything like this, but at what point does the argument say, enough is enough & now its time to fight? When is freedom & liberty more important than a risk of life? Its something we each have to answer for ourselves. I put forth my answer. I didn't ridicule anyone else's answer & if you had merely stated that you would have let him past due to risk, I wouldn't have berated you.

I'm sure someone will point out that while you did try to "put me down" with your little sign, what's the big deal that I had to write all this? Answer, because when you did it, you were also acting as a bully, even be it small one, & I won't stand for it.

If you have any questions about my stance or would like to debate me, please do so. But, please leave bad manners out of it. Thank you.

I struggle with this and it would not be hard to find past threads of me deciding if I should turn the other cheek, road rage, or take a stand. What complicates it is behind the wheel, a bully can kill.

Not saying it's always or mostly right, I try to be as unprovactive hypermiling as possilble limit my venting in a way the jerk would understand only in the more extreme circumstances.

I try to be as courteous as possible-- I'll get over into the shoulder and let the speeders around if there's a decent opportunity to do so. But when they get aggressive, all bets are off.

I should add, I do consider other traffic. I have no right to put a bystander at risk, even if I'm "being right" ;)

Heh, this might get to be one of those threads that mushrooms
all out of control. *Some* line has to be drawn somewhere, or you
have anarchy. Like if I'm at or ABOVE the posted speed limit
minding my own business and someone comes wailing up behind and
starts tailgating and being aggressive, who is in the wrong?
.
Clearly, something *is* wrong at that moment, and I as the
tailgate-ee am going to have a hard time feeling that it is
me. As a member of a supposedly civilized society am I *obliged*
in some way to stand aside, or in this case move my vehicle
aside, to let another member freely violate its laws and tenets?
Don't I rather have some obligation to at least try and remind
that person that they also have certain societal obligations as
an agreed-upon part of exercising their granted PRIVILEGE to use
the roads? What if all this were applied to the typical home-entry
scenarios that invariably come up in these discussions? I'm sure
the victims would be yelling "shoot the bastard" right off.
.
I don't see why a certain amount of self-defense and assertion
of one's own standing, as we commonly practice anywhere else, should
be laid aside and invalidated just because it's a vehicle situation.
Everything we learn about driving, in school or from industry
trainers and experts, promotes and advises safe operation almost
above all other factors, and tacit condonement of behavior so
clearly outside of those guidelines just doesn't make sense in
almost any setting you could think of.
.
_H*

Shiba-
Actually I thought my question was going to be more provocative than the sigh. My sigh was a reflection that this is a "hot button" issue for me. Also- I wasn't trying to illustrate through the absurd. There are too many accidents resulting from road rage or impatient passes.

Al-
Rules 3, 11, 27, 38, and 42 of Uncle Bob's traffic safety rules. He notes in the rule 42 explanation that drivers take cues from other courteous drivers and display courteous behavior- sometimes just for the moment. Trying to teach other drivers by holding them up has always seemed counterproductive to me. Think about the truckers that drag their trailer in your lane- they're angry and they'll show it, but in their heads they are justifying it by saying "someone's got to startle this guy into travelling the speed of traffic and not hold everybody up- it's dangerous!" What lesson is learned from that trucker- certainly not the one he intended.

In the foreign invasion example, freedom is at stake. In the home invasion example, security and possessions are stake. I don't know what is important enough on the road to assert our rights- if the opportunity presents itself to allow the other driver through.

A teleological approach seems more prudent. And yes, this issue is that important to me.

Keith

Aether-
Sorry, did not want to hit you personally on this one. My concern is the overall tone of these threads. How is it that we are surprised that people get angry when we inconvenience them? Hypermiling calls for a good dose of humility.

Keith

Well I could have gotten over; no doubt. But I was in a glide doing over the PSL by a few mphs and a school zone was approaching. I wasn't surprised at all by his actions normally when I see particular vehicles approaching I expect this type of behavior.

I still believe unlike most drivers that the speed limit is actually the maximum for safety not a minimum speed suggestion.

I life in a small town and most of the drivers I see every day are familiar with my vehicle and driving style. They usually just go around.

Hypermiling calls for a good dose of humility.

I certainly agree with that.

I live in a small town and most of the drivers I see every day are familiar with my vehicle and driving style. They usually just go around.Even though I don't remotely live in a small town (Dallas area) - I suspect a familiarity breeds contempt scenerio....more people in the morning honking and high-beaming....may be gearheads, etc that see this Insight with the CleanMPG sticker and want to vent on hybrids, hypermiling, or both.

..more people in the morning honking and high-beaming....may be gearheads,

People should just calm down.

Shiba-
Actually I thought my question was going to be more provocative than the sigh. My sigh was a reflection that this is a "hot button" issue for me. Also- I wasn't trying to illustrate through the absurd. There are too many accidents resulting from road rage or impatient passes.

Thanks for explaining that & I appologize for mis-interpreting.

The original suggestion was to not to take an action to convience the bad-driver, not to take an action against the other driver. If he breaks the rules by driving on the shoulder (which I was assuming was illegal), then he potentially becomes the bad driver with a possible ticket to boot.

Given the choice, I'd like to remain a model driver at all times, never perform an illegal action, and generally be as kind to others as possible. I'd have to say we probably agree in principle to being good drivers, and just disagree a little on the details.

Have a good week!

To get back on topic for this thread, I'd like to throw in a catagory of driver for which I had an example yesterday.

The Road Hog - Like most bad drivers this one is very self important. They take want they want & protect what they don't even care about;

Example: Two lanes were merging down into one & that one lane is no passing. I was already past the merge point & moving towards center when a large pickup truck (what else would it be?) passed me using mostly using a divider median. In order to this without me seeing him before, he had to be well over the speed limit (think 20 plus). It had been 55, and quickly dropped to 50 then 45 just before the merge. It continues down to 35 shortly after the merge. Now this would have been stupid & agressive enough, but about 2 miles down, the road splits into 2 forward lanes at a light. This guy drives right down the center to prevent anyone from thinking about going around him. I actually wondered what he would have done if someone had just dived in one side. The lane merged back up & we kept on going down the road & joined up with slow traffic. (So far his agression had earned all of 1 car length & negative mpg) The lane splits again. He didn't go center again, but really couldn't as cars were already loaded in both lanes. As we go past the light & the lane starts to merge again, he stays inches off the car in front of him (in the left). A car in the right was level with the front car, but was backing off to fall in. He had to fall back another car length & nearly crashed into the truck as the lane was merging so fast. The truck was now only 5 car lengths in front of me. The road opened back up again, and this time is stays open. We came to a red light. He was left lane, I was right lane, and I was a length in front of him. In the end, he would have been in the exact same place had he just stayed behind me & kept calm. The windows on the truck were so dark, I never could get a view of the driver to see if they were male/female/young/old/etc. But I guarentee 100% agressive idiot.

I ran into a special one this morning.

There's this white Mazda minivan that I regularly see on my commute. It's an older woman who likes to drive 40-45 on the two-lane 55mph road that leads to my office. It doesn't bother me to get stuck at the back of that line (twice per week at least) but she backs things up for a half mile some days. Not a good idea IMO but not the worst thing you could do.

So this morning I see her coming up behind me on the freeway. I'm doing about the limit, she's doing maybe 10 over in the middle lane. Next thing she does is dive in front of me and let off the gas so that we're both doing 50-ish in the 60 zone. Since we were headed down-hill and I don't like to move that far below traffic, I figured I would just pass and be done with it. So I try. What does she do? She matches my speed to stay in the blind spot! Slow down, same thing. Speed up, she does it again. I don't know what her deal was. Eventually I did get away from her my getting my speed up and keeping it there, and she settled back down to a cruise.

There must have been something going on in her head that I wasn't in on.

Hmmm... what's at stake on the road? My continued well-being
and that of my property, I imagine, as well as some conceptual
right to proceed without extraordinary fear, to be able to use
my defined privilege without having it coupled to a fight-or-flight
response at any time. We're well aware that everyone's purpose
is to get where they're going safely, and cooperation facilitates
that much more than conflict, and people operating outside of
those parameters just bugger the whole process. We're just
nitpicking about a few of the parameters which often get fouled
up in personal opinion.
.
Here's another idea about speed limits. They're guidelines for
a maximum only, they were never set forth as a specified rate
at which everyone MUST travel, no more no less. Usually they're
associated with the idea of a highest safe speed under optimal
conditions, and it's perfectly okay to slow down from that in
suboptimal conditions -- rain, ice, congestion, crap in the road,
big hills in a semi, etc. It is up to a driver's judgement whether
the limit is actually a safe speed for conditions, and I think any
court would uphold that. With that in mind, BEING tailgated is
itself an unsafe, suboptimal condition and warrants a decrease to
what is considered a safe speed for the situation. [If there is
any such, maybe about 5 mph bumper-absorption threshold...]
.
What I would ask any tailgater is, what if I'm from out of town
and just trying to FIND something? How would the tailgater feel
if the situation were reversed and is being mercilessly hounded
by the locals who don't realize someone might be lost?
.
_H*

What I would ask any tailgater is, what if I'm from out of town
and just trying to FIND something? How would the tailgater feel
if the situation were reversed and is being mercilessly hounded
by the locals who don't realize someone might be lost?

That's why it's better, when driving a car in a fuel economy challenge, to use one with out of state plates. :rolleyes:



I have two idiots today:

1. The soccer mom (strike one) driving a Cadillac Escalade (strike two) on the phone (case closed). Learn how to use a roundabout. I have the right of way... which she nearly learned the hard way as I laid into the horn and she locked up her brakes.

2. The idiot lady on the phone who just had to pass on the right shoulder of US 25... never mind it's a 35 MPH zone and there was an open lane on the left.

The guy (or girl?) in the F250 who repeatedly highbeamed me although I was in the right lane... first high beam, I got off the gas, second time I got on the brake, then he started flashing... until going around in an angry huff, then getting on the brakes himself as he cuts me off and goes up the exit ramp.

I finally have one I wil laugh at...

Me in my Ranger, 5mph below the speed limit coming up on an exit ramp...
Full sized pickup FSP...
Just can't wait, floors it, cuts back in just in time for the ramp...
At the stop light I am now behind him, both of us turning right...
Next stop light, I turn left and he goes straight...
I wave...

Gas wasted, 1/2 gallon (guess)...
Time saved, 00.00 seconds...

:)

This happens so much I can't even chronicle it. There are 3 or 4 on-ramps on my commute that almost always have some person roaring onto the freeway only to take the very next exit again.; What the heck is up with this? Why on earth do people get on the freeway only to get right off again? I'm beginning to wonder if some people just don't know what roads are for...

i was getting on the freeway, the guy in the lane to the left of me is getting off. BUT i didn't know that he was getting off because, his suv only had corner lights on the front and back of the suv, he was parallel to me. so i couldn't see that we was getting off. he floors it past me, get's off at the next exit. then he does this, 'i'm flipping you off but i don't want anyone else to see' thing.

Arizona drivers, most likely the worst anywhere.

A woman came into a bank parking lot I happened to be in a
couple of weeks ago and parked, and I noticed she had one of
those little scrolling-message display license plate frames.
Letters only about a inch high, not easy to read from more than
a car length or two ... but I had the time to watch the message
go by, which said:
.
__ MASSACHUSETTS DRIVERS ALL SUCK
__ THAT'S WHY I'M MOVING TO ARIZONA
.
Even at the time, I figured she was headed for a big
disappointment...
.
_H*

I want to rig a light up sign that reads "BACK OFF!!" I'd use some expletives there but with the car wrapped in advertisements I don't think that'd be helpful; should be able to get away with an on demand tailgater warning device.

Manually flashing the 4 (6 in my case) flashers 3-5 times fast tends to work for about 3 sec sometimes longer when dealing with someone in a normal sized car and not road raging yet.

A woman came into a bank parking lot I happened to be in a
couple of weeks ago and parked, and I noticed she had one of
those little scrolling-message display license plate frames.
Letters only about a inch high, not easy to read from more than
a car length or two ... but I had the time to watch the message
go by, which said:
.
__ MASSACHUSETTS DRIVERS ALL SUCK
__ THAT'S WHY I'M MOVING TO ARIZONA
.
Even at the time, I figured she was headed for a big
disappointment...
.
_H*

Here is your sign: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/LICENCE-PLATE-FRAME-W-SCROLLING-MESSAGE_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ66Q3a1Q7c65Q3a15Q7c39Q3a2Q7c240Q3a1318QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem180306692418QQitemZ180306692418QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories:D


$77.94 shipped is a little expensive to me. $30.00 and I would buy it.

Edited:

Found one cheaper: http://cgi.ebay.com/New-License-Plate-Holder-LED-Scrolling-Message_W0QQitemZ350124983081QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item350124983081&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A1%7C65%3A15%7C39%3A2%7C240%3A1318

$49.90 shipped. Getting closer.

1) The Sebring convertible who hit his flashers. I don't know why he had his top down (it was about 20 degrees today) but he paid for it when I shot off a good hosing of the washers. Went around in a really angry huff after that.

2) I'm doing 50 in the right lane of the freeway. An Econoline van is gaining - slowly - in the middle lane. A semi is in the left lane (all semis have to exit at the next ramp on the left). Here comes a Blazer, hauling ass. He thinks he can go to the right of the van and cut him off, but I'm there. He gets on my butt. Flashes the lights, I ignore him, he eventually goes around, flips me off.

3) 30 seconds later, guy in a Subaru flips me off for no real reason.

4) The Corolla who just *had* to cut around me and then jam his way onto the entrance ramp. I responded by leaving the bright lights on all down the entrance ramp to the highway.



I hate drivers around here. They're not necessarily driving faster with cheaper gas but they're much, much more aggressive and rude.

Here is your sign: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/LICENCE-PLATE-FRAME-W-SCROLLING-MESSAGE_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ66Q3a1Q7c65Q3a15Q7c39Q3a2Q7c240Q3a1318QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem180306692418QQitemZ180306692418QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories:D


$77.94 shipped is a little expensive to me. $30.00 and I would buy it.

Edited:

Found one cheaper: http://cgi.ebay.com/New-License-Plate-Holder-LED-Scrolling-Message_W0QQitemZ350124983081QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item350124983081&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A1%7C65%3A15%7C39%3A2%7C240%3A1318

$49.90 shipped. Getting closer.
Even cheaper here. $46 shipped pay with PayPal. http://www.coolsign.biz/
EDIT: I just noticed that it appears there is some type of business opportunity associated with these things. I'm NOT a seller.

I'm starting to really wonder when it's going to start crossing
the line into physical attacks, thrown objects, even a big ol'
loogie hucked out a window or sunroof... becoming commonplace,
not just isolated incidents, and LE doing absolutely nothing
about any of it as usual.
.
_H*

I'm starting to really wonder when it's going to start crossing
the line into physical attacks, thrown objects, even a big ol'
loogie hucked out a window or sunroof... becoming commonplace,
not just isolated incidents, and LE doing absolutely nothing
about any of it as usual.
.
_H*

If it gets any worse I am thinking of putting some serious personal defence in the car.

Drivers now are the worst I've seen, ever.

Doesn't it seem as though they are actually angry???

:(

I have considered rear headlights, but like I've said in the past, they would need two levels (1) friendly warning flash, (2) blinding level if they are nutjobs.

I have considered rear headlights, but like I've said in the past, they would need two levels (1) friendly warning flash, (2) blinding level if they are nutjobs.

I'm thinking of something more drastic (a grenade launcher). That would keep the road ragers well back. :p

I'm thinking of something more drastic (a grenade launcher). That would keep the road ragers well back. :p

Well sure, but if you ever use it you'll have a might big pothole to contend with the next day! :eek:

Well sure, but if you ever use it you'll have a might big pothole to contend with the next day! :eek:

That's what alternate routes are for. :D

I got honked at in the Sedona today. The street leading into/out of my division is in the middle of a hill. So, no matter if I turn left or right, I'm heading uphill :(. I was on my way to pick up the little ones from Preschool and had just topped the hill. I usually keep the TPS pretty low as there's another dip after the top of this hill. I had a mustang come up on my rear, and he honked to let me know his displeasure (I was doing 35 MPH), then went around. PSL is... well, not posted actually. It may be a 45 or a 55. There is NO signage in either direction on this road. Anyway, the mustang honks and blasts around. Then breaks back down to 45 MPH (which was my target speed anyway). I just don't get it.

Not that I really thought I needed it today [a rare occurrence,
indeed] but I found myself thinking of a nice aftermarket product
for the "car wars escalation market".
.

"Feeling inadequate on the roads today? Constantly chased down by
those undesirable 'butt buddies'? Misaimed windshield squirters
and yuppie-buttons are child's play -- take your driving to the next
level, with the Octopus! Installs easily on any car or truck, and
includes a generous half-gallon tank to handle several days' worth of
encounters. Just a quick push of a button releases a blast of ink to
the rear, letting you get away from the pushy tailgaters fast! Special
boost setting for trucks, to get the extra height you need. Uses
our custom deep black quick-hardening formula for maximum windshield
coverage and obscurity. Inks also available in bright, fun loving
day-glo colors if you want to make a more amusing statement. Call now!"

.
James Bond would be proud. It could happen in our lifetimes, the
way things seem to be going...
.
_H*

How much is shipping and handling? I'll add it to my wishlist! :D

James Bond would be proud. It could happen in our lifetimes, the
way things seem to be going...

How about a rear-facing Blaster (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb-_JiYMNlA)?

That would get you to lose those tailgaters pretty quickly :D

She's hot! :p

And bothered?? ;)

:eek: --------

Example of bad driver. "My wife".