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As a motorcyclist I would be interested in participating in the mileage logs by inputing data for my motorcycle as well as my car. Does this go against the spirit of this forum? I'd be interested in seeing a forum section dedicated to motorcyclists as they can get very impressive mileage. On my Ninja 500 I can get 55mpg without even trying (fast accels, no gliding, 75-80mph on the freeway). Near the end of my last tank I started applying some hypermiling techniques and brought it up to 59.6mpg. On my current tank I've been using hypermiling techniques for the entire tank and expect to be well into the 60s at my next fill up. I've also been thinking about "upgrading" to a Ninja 250 since they are expected to give 74mpg without hypermiling techniques. I expect I could get one into the 80's pretty easily.

You may have noticed in the database for entering vehicles that the vehicle make, model, trans, etc. are all text fields. You don't have to use the drop downs to fill them in. You can enter a motorcycle if you like.

Unfortunatly I don't think the EPA has numbers on motorcycles so you can pretty much put the average mpg of the motorcycle there if you choose to put something.

Not only are you welcome to do so, but I'd love to hear the motorcycle perspective.

If your displacement is more than 995cc, your engine is bigger than my Insight's :D

I don't see why anyone would see it as a problem. I'm curious though, what RPM is your Ninja 500 turning around 75mph or so? A couple of my friends have owned Ninja 250's and usually only saw around 45-55mpg. They complained that the big problem was the very high RPM at cruise.

At 75mph in sixth gear the engine is turning at 6500rpm.

I don't see why anyone would see it as a problem. I'm curious though, what RPM is your Ninja 500 turning around 75mph or so? A couple of my friends have owned Ninja 250's and usually only saw around 45-55mpg. They complained that the big problem was the very high RPM at cruise.

I've pretty much decided that I'm going to keep my current vehicles and try various driving techniques and modifications to maximize their fuel economy. If I sell them and get a more efficient used or new car I will be passing them on to other owners that will likely not be as conscious about fuel economy as I'm starting to be. Getting new (versus used) vehicles also has inherently high carbon costs. Instead of recycling by buying a used vehicle you are contributing to American consumerism that is a large part of the global warming problem.

I have a 1999 Honda VFR800 (V4 780cc) which I use mostly for commuting and get 42-45mpg. Most of my commute is interstate where I typically go 75-80mph; when I exit I slow right down to not more than 10 over the posted limit.

AZBrandon, this thing's redline is 11,800rpm and at 80 it's turning about 5500-6000rpm (stock gearing in 6th would give about 160mph at redline, not that I've tried). This may seem high but motorcycle engines are designed for high rpm (18,000 for the latest Yamaha 600!). Yes, gearing could be changed but most people don't except on racetracks.

Cycle World recently tested the Ninja 250 and I think they claimed 80mpg on the highway. As a rough generalization, V-twins and singles tend to get better mileage than fours.

For various reasons I find it's safer (on a bike) to be going just a few mph faster than the general flow of traffic, normally 70-75mph around here. I move right over and let the few >80mph crazies fly by. If the general flow slowed down, I'd probably slow down too.

Cops rarely bother me. Bikes have less momentum than cars and so slow more rapidly when you close the throttle, and they are smaller targets for radar and laser. I try to be smooth and use turn signals, which may help make me inconspicuous. In 26 years of riding I've gotten one ticket and been stopped only five times (two of which were minutes apart the same day by NYSP and a Suffolk County trooper for lane splitting in a Memorial Day traffic jam - you'd think they'd talk to each other!).

Switching to my Insight for the commute requires some mental rearrangement which is not as difficult as I expected. And the Insight is every bit as much fun as the bike, in a different way.

I ride a '88 Honda Hawk GT647. It's a mild V-twin.

Over the years the bike has been modified from a few trips for road course competition to now - maximum fuel economy.

It now has a one tooth smaller rear sprocket and a mix of aftermarket jets in the carbs.
That era of Honda's were known for being way too lean on the idle circuits. Lot's of suspension mods. F2 front wheel, VFR rear wheel.

It will regularly do 50- 55mpg without doing anything extreme.

For one tank, I pulled out all stops...FAS, tucking in close to the tank, short-shifting, holding the speed down... and got 81.8 mpg. A good fairing would help a bunch.

See: http://www.greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/car/2126.html

I've ridden a Hawk GT quite a bit and it was tremendous fun, a wonderful bike. A small fairing (Targa) made it much more comfy, and it was re-jetted too to eliminate off-idle stumble.

So does anyone change out the sprocket for lower RPM operation? I know that would pretty well ruin the sporting experience if you went with much taller gearing, but it seems like you'd get way better fuel economy at a low RPM cruise. There's probably massive power reserves at 75mph and 6500rpm, right? The lower the power reserves, the better the FE should be, through reduced pumping losses.

People do change out the sprockets on many motorcycles but I haven't investigated what's available for the Ninja 500. The torque peak is at 7000rpm so at 6500rpm at 75mph you do have alot of power reserves, but I've been riding at 55mph-60mph on my latest tank which puts me at 4500-5000rpm. The engine is pretty comfortable down in the 3000rpm range so I have some room to change the gearing and use wider throttle openings which would be more efficient.

The local news has often had pieces on ways to improve fuel economy and the one they mention most often is to slow down. One of the stations also has reporters out on residential streets with radar guns and stops drivers to embarass them on live TV by asking them why they are driving so fast. The local media combined with high gas prices seems to be having an effect because I've noticed a general tendency for people to drive slower and be more tolerant of those driving within the speed limit. The local speed limit on I-10 is 60mph. Speeds in the fast lane range from 65-75mph, second lane from the left is typically 60-65mph, and in the third and fourth lanes you can get away with 55-60mph without too much trouble. I do feel safer in the fast lane on the motorcycle though because you don't have drivers merging and you only have to watch out for cars in the lane to the immediate right, but I've vowed to stay out of the fast lane because you cannot drive at the speed limit or below without seriously impeding the natural flow.

After reading hawkgt647's success in attaining over 80mpg, I'm excited to see what I get on the current tank with my first serious attempt to utilize hypermiling techniques.

You may have noticed in the database for entering vehicles that the vehicle make, model, trans, etc. are all text fields. You don't have to use the drop downs to fill them in. You can enter a motorcycle if you like.

Unfortunatly I don't think the EPA has numbers on motorcycles so you can pretty much put the average mpg of the motorcycle there if you choose to put something.

The total motorcycle webpage has fuel economy values for many motorcycles. The values are posted by users; averaging the entries for the Ninja 500 gives 50mpg combined and for the Ninja 250 the average is 66mpg combined (including cycle world's value of 74mpg). I'll use 50mpg as the equivalent EPA entry for the 500.

http://totalmotorcycle.com/MotorcycleFuelEconomyGuide/Kawasaki.htm

It would be interesting to see some motorcycles posted. BTW, motorcycles are exempt from emissions testing right? So we don't have any ratings for that anywhere do we?

Some 2006 models (Ninja 650, BMW F800s, Yamaha F1, others) equipped with catalytic converters are being advertised as meeting Euro 3 emission standards and even more 2007 models should start meeting the Euro 3 standard. Most current motorcycles in use in the US don't have catalytic converters and the best we can shoot for is keeping them in good running condition so the emmissions are kept down. Models sold in california have additonal requirement. The Ninja 500 for example has had an evap system for a while in models sold in California but not in other states.

The high fuel efficiency makes CO2 emissions much lower than cars though and that is the green house gas of most concern.

http://www.adb.org/documents/guidelines/Vehicle_Emissions/im_ch03.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro_III

Google led me to various documents on U.S. emission standards for motorcycles. Apparently starting in model year 2006, new stricter standards were imposed and a further reduction will be required in 2010. The documents also mention stricter standards in California. I just scanned through the documents quickly but didn't see a clear name for the standards. Unless, I find an official name for the standards I'm going to refer to my bike's as EPA 2006 ClassIII.

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/roadbike/420f03044.pdf

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/roadbike/420f03046.pdf

You may have noticed in the database for entering vehicles that the vehicle make, model, trans, etc. are all text fields. You don't have to use the drop downs to fill them in. You can enter a motorcycle if you like.

Unfortunatly I don't think the EPA has numbers on motorcycles so you can pretty much put the average mpg of the motorcycle there if you choose to put something.


In the Mileage Logs what does "% of Max Speed" refer to?

How close to the speed limit you are. if the speed limit is 50 and you go 45 then % of max speed would be 90.

I do plan on making the forms more user friendly and maybe allowing a basic and advanced form so people have a choice of how much information they want to put in.

Some tips for maximizing fuel economy on motorcycles.

Prep the bike -

Pump up your tires to the maximum pressure that you are comfortable with, both for handling and safety.
Clean and lube the chain. I would love a belt-drive. Consider installing a constant chain luber.
Make sure the engine/transmission oil is at the proper level and not over-filled.
Tuned up and running properly.
Remove any luggage or bags not needed.
Make sure your battery is in top condition, it will get a work-outSuiting up -
Wear tight-fitting outer wear, like a fitted leather riding suit or a RoadCrafter riding suits.
If you don't wear any riding gear (you should consider it), wear heavy denim.
Avoid baggy, flapping clothes.
Use a full-face helmet, shield down. Crack open the shield if needed for hot temperatures.
If you have time, try a few stretching exercises to loosen up before your ride.
The Ride -
Get all geared up - jacket on, gloves, helmet, ipod, etc. before starting the bike.
Push the bike out if it needs to backed out of a parking spot.
Then start it up, ready to go.
Only use the choke (enrichment) as long as needed. Really pay attention to this, it dumps a huge amount of fuel into the engine. Some bikes are more cold-blooded than others, so you will have to find out what the bike can tolerate. If you have fuel injection, never mind!
Go with flow of traffic, forget about all the horsepower between your legs.
Find a max - DO NOT EXCEED - rpm. For my Honda Hawk, it's 4000 rpm.
Try to stay in the highest gear that the engine will pull without lugging or bucking.
Anticipate traffic, signal lights, stops, etc. Adjust your speed accordingly.
To coast with the engine off, pull in the clutch and use the emergency kill switch on the bars. My Hawk will bump start in 5th gear as long as the speed is above 7-10 mph.
Tuck in your legs as close as possible.
Lower your upper torso down out of the airstream whenever speeds exceed 30-35 mph. Having a tankbag to lay on is helpful - just don't smash your lunch.
Drafting? Yes, it can help. But being on a motorcycle and drafting make it a high -risk tactic. Use with caution! Big trucks can hide upcoming hazards that a car could bounce over - but on a bike it might be bad news.
Always kill the engine when stopped for any reason. Make sure your battery is in good shape if you will be doing numerous starts. A battery tender can help.

I used to get right around 50 mpg out of my old Honda 350 enduro.
Well, except when pounding around in the woods. It's ironic that
my current *car* does so much better than that... I *did* put
a considerably smaller sprocket on the back and a shorter chain,
because it really was geared way too low for highways and boyhowdy,
that one change made *all* the difference -- like having a
whole 'nother gear, but no loss of starting-out torque down in
first. But the bike had enough other little issues that I was
starting to not entirely trust it, so it's in the tender care of
a FOAF by now..
.
_H*

I ended up with 61.7mpg on my last tank while using various hypermiling techniques as described in the mileage log. I have a larger front sprocket on order that will bring my rpms down by 575 at 60mph. If the larger front sprocket shows an improvment I'll add a larger rear sprocket. With the two sprockets combined I would be turning 4175rpms at 60mph which is a significant drop from 5075rpm stock. It's like having 8 gears instead of 6. I've entered my Saab 9-2x in the mileage logs as well.

If the larger front sprocket shows an improvment I'll add a larger rear sprocket.

I'm confused... a larger rear sprocket would increase your RPM's. Seems like the wrong way to go.

Or is this some kind of way to get a better over-all ratio balance between the front/rear sprockets?

You are correct, hawkgt647. That was a typo. I'd go down in the rear from 41 teeth to 38teeth and up in the front from 16 teeth to 18 teeth.

Not only are you welcome to do so, but I'd love to hear the motorcycle perspective.

If your displacement is more than 995cc, your engine is bigger than my Insight's :D

My cc is 1137, and I'm sitting around 38 mpg...
http://greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/car/1448.html

All this bike chatter stired a bug in me. I think a new Harley would look good! :) Wife thought I went and bought one today. It was funny when i told her I went and looked at them. She asked which one I bought... LMAO

Hi All:

___It was only 6 – 9 months ago and I had a real nice post on bikes, their emissions, and their real world FE. A few google searches will lead you to the 6 or 7 mag articles where I pulled all the stuff together from but I cannot for the life of me find it right now???

___Here is what I remember … As far as emissions are concerned, even the latest California reg’ed 07 bikes with the just recently added CAT’s are something like 20X’s more emissions intensive then your average LEV or ULEV-2 based automobile. The second item was the FE … I know it’s out there and I will do some more searching for it later on this evening but even the 250 CC rice rockets were barely pushing into the 70 mpg area. The 600’s were in the 50’s and the 1,000’s on up were in the 40’s and under IIRC? I remember the Harley’s being discussed usually receiving into the middle 30’s at best … These bikes were not being driven by hypermiler’s of course, none of the techniques most of us would use today would have been considered or used, nor where they taken on a treadmill for the FTP75 or HWFET. It was just a few test loops by a few of the larger bike mag’s to see what the bikes of all types were actually worth … I bet bike mag testing includes this kind of data in their spec sheets nowadays but I haven’t picked up a bike mag in probably 10 years??? Another issue. The average bike and rider has a Cd of ~ .5. I am talking worse then a Peterbilt OTR tractor rig with every sun/rain/wind stepper bar/NASCAR wing, and the good ole #3 Dale Earhhart lifesize decal on the side. The only good to come of this is that the frontal area of a bike and rider (especially a rider in a tuck) is just about nil … IIRC the calc’s, an average bike and rider had a similar Cd/Frontal area as that of an Insight so it is an uphill battle right from the get go even though a bike is so much smaller … Next we have that crazy performance at all costs over any thought of FE. Back in my day when/while riding my own 89 CBR600F, I was averaging ~ 55 mpg back and forth to work. I did take it up to 140 in a tight draft behind a Porsche once but for the most part, she was being shifted at less then 3K, I was usually in a slight tuck to reduce drag (in the winter it was a full tuck behind that miniscule windscreen to keep from being turned into a popsicle as I did my fair share of commuting in temps below 32 degrees F ;)) and I always use the DWB technique just as I do today … I thought 55 mpg’s from a Pocket Rocket back then was pretty astounding and if I were to ever risk life and limb again, I would find a 250 CC super bike (can you purchase a 250 CC rice rocket with FI nowadays?), gear her so she couldn’t accelerate in 6th even if she wanted to, and I bet you could get an easy 100 without so much as two sprocket changes, shortening the chain by maybe 10 links, and using all the techniques other then a full blown P&G/FAS. Pull a full blown P&G and I bet you could take just about any bike into the 200 – 250 + range in short order but those tiny 12V’s would die a quick death with hardly a chance to recover given the even smaller alternators attached to the rice rockets nowadays …

___Again, I am speaking from maybe 5 hours or less of research I did maybe 6 to 9 months ago and I haven’t a clue as to how much of it is accurate or not but hopefully someone can do some of the verification here for us tonight? I have an article to complete on the Hybrid Tax credits/incentives so my plate might be a bit full tonight for any type of verification …

___Great thread and for those with bikes, please place your FE data into the Mileage DBase. Tom will be separating the DBase out by types of vehicles in the very near future and having bikes included as a separate category would be a great help for any manufacturer that might be interested in seeing what there vehicles/designs are receiving in terms of real world FE when driven by most here who know what they are doing do rather then the nuts doing the 0 to 100 mph to 0 mph dance and just hoping to live through to there next birthday while doing so …

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Late last Summer I suffered an accident (the only accident I've had so far) on my bike that I partially atribute to trying to hypermile. I wasn't hurt and the bike only minimally damaged. It happened at a two way stop on a road with two lanes in each direction. It was my turn to go and I assumed the left turner across the street had seen me. Mistake #1: I was in the wrong lane to maximize time and space, the left lane. Mistake #2: I took of gently in 1st gear and quickly shifted to 2nd, lazily crossing the intersection. The left turner in front of me hadn't seen me and proceeded to make her left turn. I braked and swerved, she tapped me while at a high lean angle and I went down at a very low speed. Since then I had been afraid to use any hypermiling techniques and my mileage has hovered in the high 40s to mid 50s. This last tank I resumed hypermiling techniques but am trying to be more selective and intelligent about when I chose to use the bikes speed and maneuverability to keep me safe rather than saving fuel. I managed well over 60mpg and hope to have more tanks in 60s going forward.

Just thought I would pipe up. I have a 97 YZF 600 and it is a good looking rat bike. Meaning, it looks good from afar (really good, actually), but it has some mechanical issues. I'd love to post what my avg mpg is, but my gauges stopped working (except my RPM gauge). :p I'm pouring a bit of money into fixing it up for my husband to start learning to ride, so maybe I will be able to participate a little bit more when I replace some parts!

Another issue. The average bike and rider has a Cd of ~ .5. I am talking worse then a Peterbilt OTR tractor rig with every sun/rain/wind stepper bar/NASCAR wing, and the good ole #3 Dale Earhhart lifesize decal on the side.

How about a recumbent motorcycle? :D

http://www.projectvf.com/

Just thought I would pipe up. I have a 97 YZF 600 and it is a good looking rat bike. Meaning, it looks good from afar (really good, actually), but it has some mechanical issues. I'd love to post what my avg mpg is, but my gauges stopped working (except my RPM gauge). :p I'm pouring a bit of money into fixing it up for my husband to start learning to ride, so maybe I will be able to participate a little bit more when I replace some parts!


If you want a cheap replacement for the speedo, check out replacing it with a bicycle cyclocomputer. It can be calibrated to be more accurate than the factory speedometer/odometer. And you'll gain some cool memory functions (max speed, avg. speed, miles traveled) And a clock!

I installed a Sigma BC700 on a Honda Hawk GT647. It always shows a slower speed than the motorcycle's gauge (it's worse the faster you go).

Check this web page if you are interested: http://www.houseofthud.com/bikecomputer.html