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Well, my learning how to get good mileage on my 2008 HCH-II has come to a premature end. Saturday night, my 21 year old daughter was zipping around town in "Daddy's car" and sheared off a telephone pole and ended up upside down. At least she was wearing the seal belt. Amazingly, she didn't get a scratch on her, although she has a few small bruises and sore muscles. I guess those air bags really work. The car is an unbelievable mess, I think maybe she stood it on the front bumper and then it nosed over, smashing the roof in against the pole. Anyway, that is sort of my guess from the damage. 3 of the 4 doors still open and shut again, which amazed me.

But, now I am out one car, only two months old, and 3200 miles! Arrghhh! I will report on what happens with the insurance. I've never had a brand-new car totalled before, and have no idea how this will turn out financially. Umm, I ***DO*** know our insurance rates will be higher next year!

Jon

Oh no!!!! :ccry:

I'm glad that at least your daughter is okay... but she shouldn't be driving again anytime soon. :mad:

I'm glad your daughter is ok, the car can be replaced.

Was she distracted or racing?

The HCHII does really well in roll-over crashes. I've had three customers roll theirs:
The first was someone who steers where they look, which happened to be over an embankment (she was looking at her daughter) with the highway being higher than the rest of the terrain and her high rate of speed the car rolled 3-5 times side over side.

The second was speeding in the rain and caught a soft muddy shoulder all I know is they rolled once.

The third was eating a biscuit from McDonalds and a piece of it got stuck, he passed out and the car did half a summersault somewhere along the way. The seatbelt cleared his blockage, he said next thing he knew he was upside down in the seat and some young man was trying to help him unbuckle.


All three had no major injuries and two bought new Civics, one an Accord. Their experiences where one of the final pushes to get me into my '09 HCHII from the Prius.

Let us know if there is anything we can do to help.

holy cow. how scary for both of you. i am glad she's ok.

Wow. Glad your daughter is ok.

Hi Jmelson:

___I am glad to hear your daughter is ok and I hope the experience makes her an even better driver in the future.

___As with any vehicle, it gave its life up for your daughter and you have to give Honda Engineers credit for that one.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

I'm glad your daughter is ok, the car can be replaced.

Was she distracted or racing?

Neither, but she has a rep for driving fast. Fast enough that it scares some of our other kids, so we've heard about it before, and warned her. Lately, my wife hasn't let her drive with any of our other kids due to these reports. (Of course, she never drives fast when WE are in the car!) She admits she was doing about 50 MPH before the accident.

Oh, yeah, once is a while I get in a car after she has driven it, and the radio was left set to "earthquake" volume levels! I couldn't drive like that, it messes with my focus on what is happening around me. So, yeah, distraction could easily be part of it. We've warned her MANY times about it. This particular daughter had some REAL problems when learning driving, she is nearly oblivious to what is going on around her, and often pulled out right in front of semis or whatever. She recently got glasses for the first time, and we were hoping that was helping her, but she wasn't WEARING them when she had the accident. But, I doubt that had anything to do with this particular incident, she was just going WAY too fast. 50 or so on a winding, hilly, 30 MPH road. I think, on dry pavement, I could have kept a good car on that road at 50. But, an inexperienced driver (well, she's 21, she shouldn't be that inexperienced) in a car she hadn't driven a whole lot, at night, got surprised at what was suddenly happening, and overcorrected. When I get caught unawares going too fast on a curve, I know, from experience, to go easy on sudden changes in momentum, and use the margins of the road (when available) to aid in getting it back under control. Maybe I have to give her some defensive driving lessons. Right now, she won't drive at all, and I don't blame her.

The HCHII does really well in roll-over crashes.
<snip>
The third was eating a biscuit from McDonalds and a piece of it got stuck, he passed out and the car did half a summersault somewhere along the way. The seatbelt cleared his blockage, he said next thing he knew he was upside down in the seat and some young man was trying to help him unbuckle.

Well, so the HCH-II administers the Heimlich maneuver, too!?! Wow, what will they think of next!

All three had no major injuries and two bought new Civics, one an Accord. Their experiences where one of the final pushes to get me into my '09 HCHII from the Prius.

OK, why did you change to the HCH-II? Because you work for them, or did you really like the Honda better? Was it all safety (yes, I AM impressed, when a compact car comes out this good after meeting a PHONE POLE head on, at, maybe, 40 MPH!) I have the opportunity to switch here, and have been thinking about the Prius. I didn't know, when I bought the HCH-II, about the sizable loss in economy in cooler weather (here in MO is sure hasn't gotten real cold yet, but the drop in mileage has already been quite easy to see) and those darn rear seats that COULD have been made to fold, even IF the battery was still across the middle, you could stuff some long items over or under it.

I saw the car Saturday night at the police station, while it was perched on a tilt-bed wrecker, and tried to get some stuff out of it. We went over to the tow yard today, during daylight, and got a much better look at it. Kind of amazing, once I thought to open the left rear door from the inside, ALL FOUR doors and the trunk still opened and shut! 3 of them were normal, one had the outside handle damaged enough that it wouldn't unlatch from the outside. The car is MASSIVELY smashed. It went through a phone pole, and landed upside down. I still haven't figured exactly what caved in the rear roof, it kind of looks like the car may have done a half somersault and the rear roof hit the upper part of the pole, it has a U-shaped dent in the middle, pretty much bringing the center of the rear roof down to the top of the trunk. But, the roof pillars held so well the doors can still open and shut! Incredible!

Ahh, psychology is weird! A 2-month old car with only 3200 miles on it gets converted to total scrap, and I'm delighted to find 7 cans of soda that hadn't popped open during the impact!

Jon:Banane53:

Hi Jmelson:

___I am glad to hear your daughter is ok and I hope the experience makes her an even better driver in the future.

___As with any vehicle, it gave its life up for your daughter and you have to give Honda Engineers credit for that one.

Oh, I DO! In another message I give some details about how well the structure of the car held together in a QUITE serious accident. After looking at it in daylight, I am totally astonished that all 4 doors still open and shut! I may get some pics on my web site if somebody is interested in seeing them.

My daughter is quite lucky, of course, that the strongest parts of the car were directly impacted upon the phone pole. If a big chunk of that had come through the windshield, for instance, passenger compartment integrity wouldn't have done her any good.

Jon

I'm glad to hear this report, but I am very sorry for your loss. Hopefully, the insurance company will be generous. I would do some searching to see what the street value is and be prepared to do some hard negotiating if they try to lowball you. That is an adjuster's directive with many companies, so be ready. What brand of insurance do you have?

I'm glad to hear that it held up well safety wise. In 168 days (she's counting) my daughter will turn 16 and be driving the HCHII. She wants a Jetta, but this reinforces why she needs to drive a Honda.

OK, why did you change to the HCH-II? Because you work for them, or did you really like the Honda better? Was it all safety (yes, I AM impressed, when a compact car comes out this good after meeting a PHONE POLE head on, at, maybe, 40 MPH!) I have the opportunity to switch here, and have been thinking about the Prius. I didn't know, when I bought the HCH-II, about the sizable loss in economy in cooler weather (here in MO is sure hasn't gotten real cold yet, but the drop in mileage has already been quite easy to see) and those darn rear seats that COULD have been made to fold, even IF the battery was still across the middle, you could stuff some long items over or under it.

I had noticed a nice drop in FE during my first and second winters with the Prius too. My main reason was that my commute changed and the HCHII is a better highway car than the Prius. The peer pressure and who the employer was didn't really factor in. After FE what factored was the safety ratings were marginally better. I've been happy with my purchase. Plus the bluetooth and navigation system are leaps and bounds better than the Toyota systems.

I think (though I could be wrong) I read a post by msantos in which he said that the cold-weather hit on the HCH-II is actually less severe than with the Prius. That makes sense to me for anyone with a city-type cycle since the Prius tends to idle rather than shut down when it's cold. On the highway it probably doesn't make much of a difference.

Glad to hear that your daughter came out of this unharmed! And I really, really hope that she learns from this mistake. I'm only a few years older than she is and I remember having some of the same tendencies. I occasionally got the urge to drive my slow car fast, and avoided wrecking a few times only by the skin of my teeth. (I think I told myself I was "good" at the time...what a joke that was.) Some are naturally great and safe drivers, the rest of us have to learn.

I'm wondering if a hands-on defensive driving course would help restore her confidence and keep her out of trouble later. Some driving schools will take you out on a slippery track and show you the ragged edge of handling. (My youngest brother's drivers' ed course included a day of this.) It teaches you how limited a car really is, and builds a healthy respect for it. And it's a good deal safer than my learning method of playing tag with snow banks on icy New England back roads. :D Talk it over with her.

I forgot to mention I traded a Civic on the Prius, and the Prius for a Civic.

I really missed having a Honda, they way they do things is really unique.

I think Brick is bang on! Make sure your next car you lend her has ANTI- SKID option. May help keep your insurance rates from going thriugh the roof? H

Post some pics if you have them of the car.

Glad your daughter is OK.
My 22 yo son also managed to ding our 2006 Prius.It was relatively minor- low speed barely sideswiped a parked car.

TO MY AMAZEMENT GEICO CLAIMED THEY GIVE 1ST ACCIDENT FORGIVENESS AND DIDN'T RAISE OUR RATES!! Maybe your insurance company has a similar policy??

Luck,
Charlie

I think Brick is bang on! Make sure your next car you lend her has ANTI- SKID option. May help keep your insurance rates from going thriugh the roof? H

Oh, our insurance IS DEFINITELY going to go through the roof! I wouldn't be surprised if we end up with the "special risks" division of Lloyds of London soon. We just got the bill for the next six months, and this accident hadn't happened when that bill was printed. The '89 Corolla wagon I had been driving got crunched by an uninsured motorist when a friend was borrowing it, then #2 daughter got a speeding ticket, then #1 daughter wrecks a 2-month old car with 3200 miles on it. Ohhhh, they are going to eat us for lunch!

Did you know it is state law in MO that if you get hit by an uninsured motorist, you have to sue them yourselves, state law FORBIDS the insurance from making any settlement on the collision part of your loss? (At least, this is what the adjuster told my wife. I was incredulous!) This doesn't apply to the totalled HCH-II, but the '89 Corolla, which didn't have any collision coverage, anyway. Hell, on that car, a broken headlight housing makes for a total loss, costs more than the car is worth.

So, anyway, now all our cars have anti-skid, air bags, etc. But, anti-skid doesn't work when you try to take a curvy road at 50 MPH. I will do something about defensive driving training, especially when we get some snow here. There's a big school parking lot near here. Right now we need to get her calmed down so she will even get behind the wheel again. She hasn't driven since the accident.

Thanks for all your good wishes and suggestions!

Jon

What has her temperament been when riding in a car since the accident?

Post some pics if you have them of the car.

OK, here they are --- but they are big, right out of the camera.

http://pico-systems.com/images/Hondafrt.jpg
http://pico-systems.com/images/Hondaback.jpg

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/Wrecked_HCH-II.jpg
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/Wrecked_HCH-II_Rear.jpg

Jon

What has her temperament been when riding in a car since the accident?

Oh, just fine, as long as somebody ELSE is doing the driving. She has 3 days off school now, maybe we will be able to get her driving next Monday. We will see.
It's not like she has no idea what went wrong, she knows exactly what she did wrong.

Jon

I've seen a number of smashed Hondas Acuras and Toyotas, but that is definitely one of the worst roofs I've seen.

Oh, just fine, as long as somebody ELSE is doing the driving. She has 3 days off school now, maybe we will be able to get her driving next Monday. We will see.
It's not like she has no idea what went wrong, she knows exactly what she did wrong.

Jon

So its more that she's not ready yet rather than just fear.

I had noticed a nice drop in FE during my first and second winters with the Prius too. My main reason was that my commute changed and the HCHII is a better highway car than the Prius. The peer pressure and who the employer was didn't really factor in. After FE what factored was the safety ratings were marginally better. I've been happy with my purchase. Plus the bluetooth and navigation system are leaps and bounds better than the Toyota systems.

OK, then! If the Prius suffers from the same winter woes, then there is a lot less difference that I might have thought. I recently had the engine kick on unexpectedly at a red light, before it had fully warmed up. It caught me off guard and I had to JAM on the brakes to avoid flying out into the intersection. That was a real eye-opener for me.

But, after doing a BUNCH of research, largely here on cleanMPG, I came to the same conclusion that if you know how to drive it (I was still learning) the HCH-II could seriously outdo the Prius on mileage. Its all in the Atkinson engine modes.

I don't have any bluetooth stuff, but might get persuaded to get the nav system on the next one. My wife gets lost going to the same grocery store we've used for decades. I'm not really sure a nav system could help her, but she seems to think they are great.

The only other concern is the fixed rear seats wrecking the cargo utility. We have a Toyota Sienna van, but the way the seats work, you can't slide anything under them, so you have to pull them all out to carry any long stuff like 2x4s. I'm just having trouble giving up that 89 Corolla station wagon!

Jon

Hi Jmelson:

___Here they are in a slightly smaller format and embedded in the forums…

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/Wrecked_HCH-II.jpg
Front

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/Wrecked_HCH-II_Rear.jpg
Rear

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Oh. My. God. :eek:

Your daughter is one seriously lucky young woman.

As long as you can avoid most stop and go the HCH-II will get better mileage above 40mph than the Prius will if you drive it carefully.

As for cargo capability, it is my understanding that the next generation of the HCH will share the new cheaper and smaller format IMA with the upcoming Insight -- which is designed to have the battery and control modules in the cargo floor. This means fold down back seats. ;)

OK, then! If the Prius suffers from the same winter woes, then there is a lot less difference that I might have thought. I recently had the engine kick on unexpectedly at a red light, before it had fully warmed up. It caught me off guard and I had to JAM on the brakes to avoid flying out into the intersection. That was a real eye-opener for me.

But, after doing a BUNCH of research, largely here on cleanMPG, I came to the same conclusion that if you know how to drive it (I was still learning) the HCH-II could seriously outdo the Prius on mileage. Its all in the Atkinson engine modes.

I don't have any bluetooth stuff, but might get persuaded to get the nav system on the next one. My wife gets lost going to the same grocery store we've used for decades. I'm not really sure a nav system could help her, but she seems to think they are great.

The only other concern is the fixed rear seats wrecking the cargo utility. We have a Toyota Sienna van, but the way the seats work, you can't slide anything under them, so you have to pull them all out to carry any long stuff like 2x4s. I'm just having trouble giving up that 89 Corolla station wagon!

Jon

I really enjoy my nav system with the new bluetooth system they include with it. Honda has won awards for their nav system. The bluetooth gets used almost every day for me.

Kacey, are you just referring to hands free phone use or is there some other bluetooth function you are using?

The Handsfree Link Bluetooth system that was originally on the Acura line and then moved to the Odyssey and Accord, was upgraded and put in all Civics with Nav for 09.

The car also does a fine job of stealing your phonebook too, on my Prius I had to do all sorts of tricks to transfer to phonebook into the car. The HCH skipped all the steps after telling it you wanted to get the phonebook, and next thing I knew it had my whole phone book.

Interesting. What phone do you have? I'm assuming it used the standard OBEX for that (the iPhone doesn't currently support that)...

T-Mobile Wing, for the Prius it was the T-Mobile MDA, Sony Ericsson T-610 and T-mo Wing.

I'm assuming it uses OBEX, but there were no prompts on the car or the phone after I touched the transfer phonepook menu it just did it.

Oh. My. God. :eek:

Your daughter is one seriously lucky young woman.

Yeah, I am sure anyone driving less than an army tank that shears off a phone pole and walks away without a scratch is indeed lucky.

As long as you can avoid most stop and go the HCH-II will get better mileage above 40mph than the Prius will if you drive it carefully.

Yeah, that was sort of what I had figured out from extensive reading here before I bought. But, there is a lot of stop and go around here.

As for cargo capability, it is my understanding that the next generation of the HCH will share the new cheaper and smaller format IMA with the upcoming Insight -- which is designed to have the battery and control modules in the cargo floor. This means fold down back seats. ;)
But, I don't want to wait that long...... If I go back to the same dealer, it will cause a funny moment - Hi, I'm back for another HCH-II !

Jon

I've seen a number of smashed Hondas Acuras and Toyotas, but that is definitely one of the worst roofs I've seen.

Yeah, I don't know the dynamics of the accident. Pretty clear she hit the pole basically head on. There was a single, very narrow, tire mark on the road at about a 45 degree angle, heading toward the pole. So, she went off the road on the right, overcorrected and I'm guessing had the car marginally up on two wheels when it went across the road and slammed into a bank and the pole that were on the left. Then, I'm guessing it somehow somersaulted between the bank and the pole, maybe landing hard on the driver's side, and then rolling over on the top.

I can easily see why the emergency crew expected a fatality when they approached the wreck!

She finally got up the nerve to do some driving today. No problems so far.

Jon

Hi Jon:

___I am not being harsh here but just asking the question. Given the extremely costs of ownership with your daughter, does she need to drive? 21 sounds like she is out of college or near it and probably needs it to get back and forth to work but if not, consider taking the keys for her sake and yours.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hi Jon:

___I am not being harsh here but just asking the question. Given the extremely costs of ownership with your daughter, does she need to drive? 21 sounds like she is out of college or near it and probably needs it to get back and forth to work but if not, consider taking the keys for her sake and yours.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Yes, if we got ALL the drivers off the road, we'd all be a lot safer. She is going to Cosmetology School in the evenings. My wife had been driving her back and forth this last week, and it is a hassle. She is eventually going to have to get a job just to pay for whatever loss we will have to bear on this car, as well as the future insurance rates which are certainly going to go UP!!! But, if we don't let her drive, she is eventually going to have reason to get her own car and drive to work, wherever that might be. I am HOPING she has learned a lesson from this, we will be monitoring her closely, using whatever spies (siblings who LOVE to tattle) are available.

(Doing our part to prop up the Japanese economy on the Honda of the month club!)

Jon

... (Doing our part to prop up the Japanese economy on the Honda of the month club!)...

From the labels I saw at the Seattle Auto Show yesterday, you're helping the American economy pretty well too. I seem to remember the 2009 HCH-II on display claiming 65% American/Canadian parts content, despite being assembled in Japan. That was better than at least one GM line assembled in the US, and far better than GMs assembled outside the US.

I hope my memory wasn't scrambled from looking at too many labels.

My Monroney Label reads 60% domestic content with 30% Major components from Japan, so I guess the rest comes from China or Mexico b/c Canada is included w/ that domestic content.

WOW

That would be a daughter walking. And 21 still at home? A daughter walking to and from her own place.

Poor Civic.

I forgot to mention I traded a Civic on the Prius, and the Prius for a Civic.

I really missed having a Honda, they way they do things is really unique.

Well, I finally got over to the local Toyota dealer, they didn't have a Prius I could test drive, and from the sounds of things, they had never had one available. This sounded pretty odd. They also said they had a minimum 6 month wait. I did go over to the used car side and tried out a late-model Prius. It seemed nice enough, and I was able to roll away from a stop on pure electric (of course this one didn't have the after-market EV button.) The big display was a TOTAL joke. I expected it to show some useful information, but it is basically a static display, with a couple small numbers displayed in the corners. When I noticed the little tires rotated on the display when you were moving, I had enough of this stupidity! That's the most useless piece of junk I've ever seen, makes me think of the sticky plastic numbers they put on digital clocks so you see what they do when on the store shelf. The rear-view camera was pretty good, though. (I built one for a 15-passenger van we used to have, which had a blind spot you could hide a minivan in.) Anyway, they wanted $26K for a 2008 Prius with 9700 miles on it. Come on!

So, Kacey, I appreciate your kind offer, but somehow buying a car, sight unseen, from a dealer 1000 miles away, by FedEx, is just a bit hard for me to do. So, I went back to the local Honda dealer, and they are reserving one of the next units coming in for us. It was actually CHEAPER than the last one we bought. Not sure how that worked out. Maybe it was all those keys with remote entry fobs that my wife ordered with the last one.

Heh! My daughter has NO desire to even drive this one, not that I'd let her, except in a real emergency!

Jon

I can appreciate that, if you hear of anyone else in need of an Honda Hybrid, just drop my name and I'll take care of them (and you). We have 3 new and 1 used available now.

Make sure they drop me your name, so I know where to send the referral check.

I can appreciate that, if you hear of anyone else in need of an Honda Hybrid, just drop my name and I'll take care of them (and you). We have 3 new and 1 used available now.



Well, I certainly tell everybody I get in a discussion with how COOL the hybrid is, and what mileage I am getting. (Or will be, when the new one comes in.)

Thanks,

Jon

Excellent, thank you. We're up to 5 new, 1 used. I can't stand this low gas price, because the longer they sit, the less Honda will replace them with 60 days from now, and the prices will just have started heading upward then.

Last year when I started with the company we had 12 white hybrids, it looked like a fleet dealer, but it paid off when the price started going up daily.

Ahhh, at last, I got "hybrid-ized", again! I finally got my second HCH-II, now a 2009.
This one seems to be doing better than my 2008 when new, or maybe it is just that I know how to drive it. It has 130 miles on it, and I got over 50 MPG driving it home from the dealer.
Hopefully it will do even better after break-in.

I was appalled that it showed 20 MPG on the trip MPG when I picked it up at the dealer, but I'm guessing they were moving it around in the lot always with the engine cold.

Anyway, I like the 2009 Hybrid wheels better than 2008. I kept dropping the tire valve caps down inside the 2008 wheels, and even made a bent piece of steel rod to poke them out. The slots in the 2009 wheels allow you to stick a finger through and get them out.

Hmmm, what about these leaky aluminum wheels? The dealer gave me all this blather about their prep team, but the TPMS light was on when I picked the car up. All 4 wheels down to 24-26 PSI. I had the same problem with my 2008, I had to pump up the tires every couple days. I guess they were losing as much as 3-4 PSI a day.

Jon

Losing 3-4 psi a day!? I don't know what to think about that. Mine have been at 44 psi for at least a month now. I keep thinking it's time to bump them up, but they haven't gone down yet.

Jess

...
All 4 wheels down to 24-26 PSI. I had the same problem with my 2008, I had to pump up the tires every couple days. I guess they were losing as much as 3-4 PSI a day.

Jon

Hummm, all four doing that at the same time? Probably a re-seat of the tires would help. I would probably request that from the dealer just to make sure because 3-4 PSI a day almost mimics a tiny puncture or a bad flat repair.

Cheers;

MSantos

Mine hold for quite some time, last time I filled to 70 and then checked back in 4 weeks and they were at 68-70 each was at a different pressure

Mine hold for quite some time, last time I filled to 70 and then checked back in 4 weeks and they were at 68-70 each was at a different pressure

70 PSI ??!!?? YIKES! I don't think I'd EVER feel safe cranking it up that high!

I just pumped these up to 32-34 PSI last night, and they have already lost several PSI, in less than 24 Hrs. This may be quite a bit worse than on my 2008 HCH-II, but I had a lot of leakage on that one, too. I did observe the tire leakage went down with time, maybe some compressor oil or something clogged up the pores in the castings.
(It is colder now, so maybe that has made the pressure drop appear worse than it actually is.)

I will watch it, and if it really continues like this, I will have to take it to the dealer and see what they can do. I've heard of people painting the inside of their cast aluminum wheels to seal the pores.

Jon

Hi Jon;

70 Psi may appear high but it is still well below the tire's own real limits. You car's fuel economy will shine much brighter as soon as you start setting your tire pressure above the 40. ;)

Cheers;

MSantos

Hi Jon,
To make it a fair pressure check, check it at the same time each day noting the ambient temperature. Whether the car has been driven or not in the last hour can make a difference as well as driving heats the tire. At low 30's, your tires are heating a lot because of the friction.

There is a factor of about 1 psi loss per 10 degree ambient temperature drop. 3 or 4 psi loss is unacceptable if temps are constant and the loss compounds on successive days.

For it to happen on 2 different cars is odd at best.

What type of tire gauge are you using?

I have tried the oem Dunlops from Honda recommended psi to 80 psi and left them at max sidewall for the others in the family to drive. I have 70 psi in the Michelin Energy tires on it now.

I still can't figure out why buying Navi gets you Bridgestones and not getting nav gets you Dunlops.

I feel comfortable going to higher pressures but error lights on the instrument panel are irksome.

Hi Jon - I'm just seeing this thread for the first time, and I'm certainly glad to know your daughter came out of this wreck OK. I just wrecked my '03 Elantra a few weeks ago and thought I had it bad. Your Civic took a much worse beating.

You mentioned your insurance rates are going up, but I was curious what the settlement was for the Civic from your company. In my experience, I was delighted that Progressive based their payout on NADA Retail value, rather than Trade-In value. I'm obviously curious about how other insurance companies like yours determine payout.

After all, it's not until you file a claim that you really find out just how good your insurance company really is.

Best Regards,
-Raj

(P.S. - No, I don't work for Progressive nor sell insurance of any kind.)

Hi Jon - I'm just seeing this thread for the first time, and I'm certainly glad to know your daughter came out of this wreck OK. I just wrecked my '03 Elantra a few weeks ago and thought I had it bad. Your Civic took a much worse beating.

phone poles are tough to run into!

You mentioned your insurance rates are going up, but I was curious what the settlement was for the Civic from your company. In my experience, I was delighted that Progressive based their payout on NADA Retail value, rather than Trade-In value. I'm obviously curious about how other insurance companies like yours determine payout.

We've got Safeco, an they must have used the retail value as well. We got $23,900, I think, after our deductible. We paid too much for the first one, and the replacement car was so much less (at a different dealer) that we didn't lose anything. When I bought the first one, gas was near $4 a gallon, and I guess you could get an insane premium for the Hybrids.
After all, it's not until you file a claim that you really find out just how good your insurance company really is.

Yes, this is sure the truth. We've never had a real problem with insurance, but have heard plenty of horror stories. Hope you have good luck with your outfit.

Jon

Glad your daughter is OK. Looks like she took a heck of a ride.

I think I'd let her drive the minivan for a while. That should help with the speed issues (not that it's a fix but it's harder to go fast). Plus it's hard to look cool in a minivan. Maybe it will be a catalyst to finish school, get a job, buy her own car and pay her own insurance. Your rates should drop once that happens.

By the time I was 21, I had bought my own car, was almost through with college, working 2 jobs and paying ALL my own bills. I did have the help of a few small scholarships and student loans but that went to cover housing since I was in a dorm room far from home.