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Hi All:

___For the 48-Contiguous State drive we will be performing next month, we need some two way radios. During the first reenactment of the Centennial of the 1908 NY to San Francisco Race, Bailout (Brian) had a name brand that worked well out to about 2 miles or so. Anything new or a closeout I should be looking for as we begin our small detailed purchasing plans?

___Thanks in advance.

___Wayne

When my wife was on bedrest following back surgery, we picked up a set of Motorola handsets at Sam's club. We also used them when we had a family convoy bringing our stuff to NC from PA. I also found them useful during our Escape PA Fun Run... I think they worked out to a mile, but the PA mountains didn't help any there. You may be better off with a CB. They make them pretty small anymore.

+1 on the CB. That way you know where all the cops are from the truckers and can speed up accordingly. :D

Hi All:

___For the 48-Contiguous State drive we will be performing next month, we need some two way radios. During the first reenactment of the Centennial of the 1908 NY to San Francisco Race, Bailout (Brian) had a name brand that worked well out to about 2 miles or so. Anything new or a closeout I should be looking for as we begin our small detailed purchasing plans? ...

I can't recommend brands, but this sounds like FRS (Family Radio Service) and/or GMRS (General Mobile Radio Service):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Mobile_Radio_Service

The 22-channel radios that you can buy in blister packs are combined GMRS/FRS units. Note that FRS (0.5 watt max) is license-free, while GMRS (typically 2 to 5 watts) requires an $85 license. Compliance with the later is, to be blunt, terrible -- 20+ million radios sold, and only about 80,000 licenses issued.

-- Dean

Hi Matthew and Auston:

___CB’s are a bit overkill although it would be nice to know where to speed up :D About the Motorola’s, did they work nice? On our first reenactment, Brian brought some name brand units and they worked pretty good. Out to 4 + miles in some cases but usually within 1.5 miles and they were really good. On the second run, we used some generic no-name brand and they were crap even within line of sight and less than half a mile from each other :(.

___Dean, are the GMRS far more expensive than the FRS’ although I would prefer not getting messed with for not having a license. With electronics going for a song right now, I am looking for recommendations of a brand and maybe even a model and than I can start searching the net in earnest.

___Thanks again for all your replies.

___Wayne

I never had any issues with the Motorolas. The only issue I have is my hearing is shot to heck... I don't understand why people like their "push to talk" phones so much, because I can't understand what they're saying ;). I just have a hard time making out conversations over hand held phones/devices. But I never ran into range issues.

I recently had to return a pair of Motorola's because I couldn't understand a thing on them. We intended to replace our bigger, 2 mile GE units, but the sound was much clearer on the GE's. We then got AudioVox radios (5 or 7 mile range). The sound is OK, but they are more difficult to use than the old ones, and they lock up when the batteries get weak.

...are the GMRS far more expensive than the FRS’ although I would prefer not getting messed with for not having a license. ...

I have a pair from the Motorola TalkAbout series, but my specific model aged out of the market long ago. I haven't used them enough to give any particular recommendation. Range will vary drastically with the situation, transmit power, and between models. FRS is legally limited to advertising a 2 mile range. GMRS usually advertises 6-8-10-14-16 miles, depending on power, and these claims tend to be 'optimistic'.

I've seen a pair of FRS-only units (7 or 14 channels) for as little as $20. My pair of GMRS units was probably about $60. More recently, 3-packs often go for that. More $ brings more power/range and features (NOAA weather radio, rechargeable batteries, sub-channel codes, etc.)

Though I'd like to see some of the pirates busted for unlicensed use, it seems very unlikely. Despite a non-compliance rate exceeding 99%, I'm not hearing of any prosecutions. If there are any active ham operaters here, they are more likely to know the enforcement situation.

If you want a GMRS license, you can apply online and should get your callsign within a very few business days. Technically, GMRS is only for family use, and one license is good for the whole family:
http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/index.htm?job=service_home&id=general_mobile

In short, to be a stickler for rules, you cannot use FRS or GMRS for this event. But in real life, more people get busted for speeding 1 mph over PSL, or coasting in neutral.

-- Dean

Hi All,

A CB is going to need an external antenna to have much range. The FRS radios are UHF, so the singals will not be nearly as shielded by the frame of the car, and will have good range with the walkie-talkie antenna.

FRS/GMRS are FM, which has superior impulse noise resistance to AM used by CB's. But, FM will have a brick wall like range situation. That is, signal will be good at one range , but just disappear a little farther out. Also being higher in frequency FRS/GMRS will have less interferance from inverters in hybrids, and computers in all cars, than the shorwave CB frequencies near 27 MHz. FM was originally invented to be used with US Army tanks, which had spark ignition engines at the time

GMRS being a licensed service has repeaters. That is why there is a 5 MHz frequency split. A mobile unit transmitting on one side, is received by a repeater station on a high hill/tower, and retransmits the signal on the other side of the frequency split. This happens simultaneously, thus the need for the repeaters. Repeaters can allow 20 to 200 mile vehicle to vehicle range. In GMRS, repeaters are considered "private" or "closed" in ham radio parlance. So, they would not be of much use to on your drive as you would not have access to the digital or other coded squelchs needed to activate the repeaters. These repeaters are usually setup for a farming comunity, or for a single farm/ranch out sest, in rural areas. So even out on the road they could be a problem. If you get GMRS radios, and happen to stumble onto the output frequency of an active repeater, your communications could be severly interfered with, and you might interfere with their communications. Which is not good if your running GMRS unlicesnsed.

FRS is unlicensed. And its ideal for short range vehicle to vehicle communications. Around metropolitan areas the frequencies might become busy, and possibly unusable. But on the open road that is not going to be an issue.

So the best bet is a high quality brand-name FRS unit. Uniden, Standard, Motorola, ICOM, Yaesu are common brand names trusted by Ham Radio operators, and would most likely make good FRS units.

Hi Donee:

___I have been dipping my toes into the waters of this GMRS radio uses and fortunately, I am not going to go into it to much more than I have already. In other words, I have spent way to much time on this :) Thank you for your overview as it is even more than what I learned on the Two Way Radio site linked below…

___After reading quite a few mini-reviews from the retailer end-users, they are all a mixed bag. Surprisingly, these retailer end-user reviews are trashing Motorola’s consumer HW across the board?

___I found a 2-Way radio site with basic reviews and such and it appears that the home use radio possibly places the Midland GXT-900 near or at the top of the list.

___Overall it sounds like these radio’s all suck but it’s the best we got besides our cel’s :(

Midland GXT-900 Review (http://www.twowayradioforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=444)

Reviews of Midland LXT330, GXT850, and Moto T9500 Review Summary (http://www.twowayradioforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/Midland_GXT900VP4_Two-Way_radios.jpg
Midland GXT900
22 Channels PLUS 20 EXTRA CHANNELS
JIS4 Waterproof*
142 Privacy Codes
30 Mile Range*
X-TRA TALK Power
Voice Privacy Scramble
Weather Scan
Direct Call
NOAA Weather Alert Radio
10 Call Alerts
eVOX - 9 Sensitivity Levels
Channel Scan
Dual Watch
Vibrate Alert
Auto Squelch
Keypad Lock
Monitor
HI/MED/LO Power Settings
Roger Beep
Silent Operation
Bright Backlit Display [LCD]
Keystroke Tones
Mic and Headphone Jacks
Battery Life Extender
Dual Power Options: 4 standard “AA” batteries (not included) or rechargeable batteries
___The good news is they run about $70 a pair but unfortunately, these radio’s seem to be out of stock everywhere as well :(

___Does anyone have something good or bad to say about these radio's or possibly another that might prove to be a better match for our car to car communication needs?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

How many pairs do you need? (http://shop.ebay.com/items/_W0QQ_nkwZMidlandQ20GXT900QQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ) ?

Hi Mike:

___One pair (2) of anything that works well would be great ;)

___I have to speak with you about some door graphics from the Garage Girls as well. Can I call you sometime today?

___Thanks in advance.

___Wayne

I just took an Ambien CR. I will be up around 4:00pm.

Hey Wayne,

The good old adage that "you get what you pay for" is true when it comes to 2 way radios. If you have it in the budget, then I recommend a low-tiered professional radio, like the Motorola CP110 (http://www.blinkwave.com/radio_learnmore_1_Motorola-CP110.htm). Sometimes, by skimping at the beginning, you end up paying for it in the end!

Dean is dead on about the license situation and couldn't sum it up better.

Hi SdAdam:

___I wish I had a budget for this kind of thing but it will be a one time event and I would rather spend our $’s on hotel and fuel bills than a low to mid-range professional radio set :( I still have hopes for Traveler’s but we are really late in the game for their participation and $ influx.

___Are you at all familiar with the consumer HW I linked above? The GMRS license will not be purchased so we will have to stay on the FRS channels. Take that statement for what it is worth.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hey Wayne,

Don't blame you on the budgeting. I'm not too familiar with the lower tiered radios, but I really don't think that much seperates them. Just keep in mind that you're not going to get the 20 miles as advertised for any radios!:flag:

Hi SdAdam:

___The advertised range is FUBAR was probably the first thing I learned about these 2-way radios ;) One of the guys said the 5W GMRS units could reach 50-miles if one person was on top of a mountain and another was on the valley floor with a clear line of site between them. The same guy also said the curvature of the earth halts the range at about 7.5 miles when the radio is held up to 5’-5” on both ends as well. Steel and glass kill them off and it gets worse with everything else in the way. .75 miles car to car is about the best we can hope for :(

___Good Luck

___Wayne

...___The advertised range is FUBAR was probably the first thing I learned about these 2-way radios ;) One of the guys said the 5W GMRS units could reach 50-miles if one person was on top of a mountain and another was on the valley floor with a clear line of site between them. ...

Best case I heard of was a distress call from climbers (on Mt. Shasta?) picked up by boaters in the Pacific, a bit over 100 miles away. This was with FRS, only one-half watt.

But as you have heard, typical distances are much less than advertised.

Basically the FSR and the others are all line of sight - anything in between is going to hurt the range. Put them in a car and you are going to lose a lot of the range on the things. The higher the wattage output the stronger the signal will be, but without an outside antenna on the car you are severely limited on what you are going to get out of any of these radios. Even the ham radio operators for the the most part use more power and a series of repeaters to get the range up on their radios that operate in the UHF and VHF ranges.

You may be better of sinking the money into extra charges on someone's cell phone plan. If you can put in unlimited text messaging for a month you might end up with a cheaper deal. Cell coverage in some areas may be a problem. Just don't drive and play with the cell phone.

... You may be better of sinking the money into extra charges on someone's cell phone plan. ... Cell coverage in some areas may be a problem.

Cell coverage WILL be a problem, especially in the rural mountainous areas out West.

Most cheap prepaid plans have had significantly worse coverage than standard monthly plans ever since the original analog service was shut down a few years ago.

-- Dean, not talkative enough to justify a full-service cell phone plan

Hi Dean:

___On our 1908 Greatest automobile Race reenactments and the trip out to Lacey, WA, I had $500 worth of cel phone bills and we found out all about the Mountainous West and deserts/plains of Nevada, Utah and Eastern California with little to no coverage using Verizon, AT&T and Sprint. Brian’s Radio’s worked out well as long as we were close and I will be making sure we are pretty close to one another. And making sure we all use our Cel’s wisely (free calls from Verizon to Verizon under my plan) this time around :)

___With that, any thoughts on those Midland’s? I am sure some will be available by next week from somebody unless I can borrow some from one of our members? Msirach has something up his sleeve and I will be calling him in a few minutes to see if he can help?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hi Wayne,

Out this way (Pacific Northwest), I believe Verizon has the best overall coverage, but even it has large gaps off the Interstates. It does not rank as well in some other parts of the country. My household uses ATT prepaid and Tracfone, both have larger gaps.

I have little radio experience -- one long-lost Icom HT from my brief ham days, one pair Motorola Talkabout GMRS that get a little bit of use on ski club outings. Relatives used older Talkabout FRS units on the ranch until a new cell tower placement made phones a much superior choice.

Midland is a very familiar brand name that ought to be good, but I have no direct experience. Having been out of the market for some time, I don't know what the 20 extra channels are. The 30 mile range is b******* puffery. Privacy codes don't give you any privacy, they just keep your squelch closed when other users sharing your channel aren't using the same code. Anyone with codes turned off will hear you. NOAA reception is handy, now that many localities have stations. Keypad lock on my pure weather radio was an irritation until I finally memorized how to unlock it, after many accidental lockups. Mic and headphone jacks should get you around most state cell phone / handheld device bans for drivers.

On dual GMRS/FRS units, you can legally use the FRS channels at 0.5W or less without a GMRS license. Due to interference with different channel allocations in Canada, the GMRS license expressly forbids use of a few channels north of FCC line A: http://www.fcc.gov/oet/info/maps/canline/canline.html. I'll have to dig up the license and get those channel numbers.

-- Dean

Wayne-

My family has/had a pair of 2-way radios we got through Amex a while back that work well. We used them to keep in touch while driving down to UIUC in different cars. 2-3 mile effective range.

I can see if I can scrounge them up if you want to borrow them. Beware- they are Motorolas branded as part of a H2 promotion (yellow with "hummer" in big letters on them):o.

...Beware- they are Motorolas branded as part of a H2 promotion (yellow with "hummer" in big letters on them):o.

Those are PERFECT! :D

Hi Warthog:

___Perfect :) Let me know if you find them and I will come on out and pick them up. I have a tentative graphic application scheduled for Nov. 11th or 12th in downstate IL and can easily pick them up on the way or much earlier if you can find them. The Hummer logo should make for an interesting story all the way around the country :D :D :D

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hi All,

Extreme range is possible on VHF/UHF by various mechanisms. But the circumstances (weather conditions primarily) that setup of these mechanisms cannot be counted on. Hams do enjoy this when it happens, which is primarily in weather above 32 F. Well equiped and located ham stations can communicate over 100 to 200 miles during many (but not all) summer evenings on VHF and UHF directly. With the small internal antennas at both ends of the link, do not expect such range enhancement to occur, or be usable. Additionally, the enhancements occur mostly after dark.

Hi All:

I just confirmed the Hummer radios are available. I'll pick them up this weekend and PM Wayne about getting them to him.

Hi WH:

___Thank You, Thank You and Thank You again!!! I promise I will keep the Hummer Logo hidden when the Press is around... Or better yet, maybe we will show the press we are using them as a sign of dissent and defiance :D

___Do you want me to drive out and pick them up sometime in thenext two weeks as I can do that too.

___Good Luck

___Wayne