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"It's getting to a point where it's every man for himself" (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122354853453718755.html)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/NYSE_Trading_Floor.jpgPeter McKay - WSJ – Oct. 9, 2008

Another horrible day on the NYSE and cutting across all sectors.

Many smell a depression similar to almost 80 years ago. Thanks a lot Investment bank and Insurance conglomerate Sharks :mad: -- Ed.

The stock market's collapse accelerated Thursday as bank lending remained stubbornly clogged and investors remained unwilling to hold anything except cash and government debt, no matter how tiny the returns for doing so.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average declined for a seventh straight day, plunging 678.91 points, or 7.3%, to 8579.19. Blue chips last dipped below the 9000 level five years ago. Thursday's fall was the Dow's third-worst all time in point terms and 11th worst in percentage terms. During its recent losing run, blue chips have fallen by a startling 20.9% and are down 39.4% from their record high, which was hit exactly one year ago.

"This is indiscriminate selling," said trader Todd Salamone, of Schaeffer's Investment Research, an analysis and asset-management firm in Cincinnati. "Not until there are massive improvements in the credit markets are we likely to see this really end."

Among the Dow's components, General Motors shares plunged 31% after the auto maker's credit ratings and those of its financing unit were put on watch for downgrade by Standard & Poor's. The Dow's financial components suffered as well, with Citigroup dropping 10% and Bank of America falling 11.2%. Exxon Mobil shares fell 11.7% after the front-month crude-oil futures contract settled at $86.59, the lowest settlement since Oct. 23, 2007. Investors worry economic aftershocks from the credit crisis will curb demand for fuel… http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122354853453718755.html

DJIA 5-year Chart

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/DJIA_after_5-years.jpg

Wayne

Im staying in. This is going to hurt. Fact is folks really need to pull there heads out. If the market completely goes away. Cash won't be worth squat anyway. Gold well become king and then it to will become to heavy to carry and it will go flat.

The over all problem with the stock markets world wide has been greed. Folks have been treating the markets like penny stocks for over 15 years now. Everybody's a damn day trader now!

Fear and Panic is doing more damage than people think. While Im by no means a rich man at all,,, rather poor by many's standards. Panic is not my savor.

People need to chill OUT! Funny how I get way bent out of shape over little things. While the big things don't seem to bother me it all.

The government and all these smart ass college boys need to dump mark to market. Get the real values. Take there ass kicking. We all take the massive hit and move TFO. The powers to be will then see what can be saved and then deal with it. Right now nobody knows,,, nobody will admit and nobody wants to take there medicine. Its like a criminal plan has went very wrong. Thus letting Panic sneak in and wrong ideas/actions abound.

Anybody that did not see this coming is flat out a idiot. To think credit can be so easy to get. To complain about housing cost and loan cost. Then buy anyway what they can not afford. The loan companys cooking books because the dumbocrats think everybody should own a home is insane.

Im sorry. Its just a working example of how greedy and entitled we have got along with a good part of the world.

Tis now time to pay. Panic is just going to make it far worse!

In the market it pays to be afraid when others are not and to be fearless when others are afraid.

See the immediate thinking at work? "every man for himself".
Just like people have become on the roads. No concept of actually
working *together* to support each other and get through it in
a collaborative fashion.
.
I'm seeing more and more parallels between life issues and how
people drive these days... and it's a bloody scary view of
human nature under pressure with too little information.
.
I guess a lot of people are out to lose a lot of money soon.
But did they really have it in the first place?
.
_H*

this is really starting to scare me.

Laurie,

What ever you do then do not go online and look at your 401k or other retirement plans you might have. It will make you more than sick.

Do I fear a handful of Marxists and some of their "useful idiots?" No

I fear AIG, Lehmann, Merrill Lynch, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, rest of the reckless bankers and realtors, GM, Ford, Chrysler, partying like there was no tommorrow....well tommorrow has come and there is Hell to pay. Neo-cons blessing their God given right to gut the economny in such an irresponsible way is the surest path to socialism.

A year ago, the Dow was at 14,000....now it's dropped 35% to 8,600 and sinking. :(

The biggest threat to capitialism is unregulated capitialism - i.e. what we are seeing right now.

I'm having that feeling like at the amusement park. The one when the roller coaster stops going up, and starts dropping, and your gut just goes, "oooohh!".

But I'm hanging on. Now is not the time to make any sudden changes.

Laurie,

What ever you do then do not go online and look at your 401k or other retirement plans you might have. It will make you more than sick.

sorry, i already did. gak. i am not going to draw them out, but good lord. at least the little slush fund i have in money market is ok.....

there is one thing i am considering, however. we have a company in town called first fuel bank. it's a gas station, but you can pre-purchase as much gas as you want at the current price. right now gas is 2.85. i am considering perhaps buying a couple of hundred gallons with the thought that when it spikes again, i will be able to keep buying it cheap for quite some time.

Laurie,

You say it's a little company. It's possible they are on the verge of going out of business and are using the prepaid funds to fund current expenses.

Anyway, hang in there, gas is down another 15 cents today.

If we are really headed into severe global recession then gasoline may get cheaper than any of us expected. (At least until we recover, which could be quite a while.) I never thought I would see sub-$2 gasoline again but I may yet be proven wrong.

Now don't everybody go off and by a new guzzler...

If we are really headed into severe global recession then gasoline may get cheaper than any of us expected. (At least until we recover, which could be quite a while.) I never thought I would see sub-$2 gasoline again but I may yet be proven wrong.

Now don't everybody go off and by a new guzzler...
__________________
Tim


Not lower than any of us expected. I predicted this back in May in this thread:

http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12581&highlight=crash&page=9

Laurie,

You say it's a little company. It's possible they are on the verge of going out of business and are using the prepaid funds to fund current expenses.

Anyway, hang in there, gas is down another 15 cents today.

here is their website. they have been around a long time:

http://www.firstfuelbank.com/history/default.asp

Hi Gershon:

___Extenuating circumstances... Like $4 to 5 Trillion disappearing from the stock market... I would rather have that back then $3.33 per gallon fuel.

___Still does not get rid of the fact we are running out of oil and it will catch up with us in three to four years.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

....

___Extenuating circumstances... Like $4 to 5 Trillion disappearing from the stock market... I would rather have that back then $3.33 per gallon fuel.

....


Just remember that the paper (electronic?) values that the Wall Street tribe puts on the stock markets aren't any more real than the values aboriginal tribes put on Rai Stones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones) and the drop mostly represents a failure in financial leverage which sometimes turns around fairly quickly like happened in '87.

The falls in housing starts and the auto market are real phenomena and suggest a larger problem.

Overall I'm -28% year to date, but I don't mind. I'm 27 and starting out, I'm in it for the long run, I can take risks. All I have to do is keep investing a bit every paycheck.

People screaming right now probably shouldn't have held that much stocks.

Hi Gershon:

___Extenuating circumstances... Like $4 to 5 Trillion disappearing from the stock market... I would rather have that back then $3.33 per gallon fuel.

___Still does not get rid of the fact we are running out of oil and it will catch up with us in three to four years.

___Good Luck

___Wayne
_______

I agree with this. For now, I think we are going to have to take our hypermiling skills to other areas of our lives.