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Honda starts the Latest Insight blog to share photos and information about the upcoming Insight. (http://automobiles.honda.com/insight-hybrid/)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Insight-II_concept_News.jpgReid Stewart – CleanMPG (cleanmpg.com) – Oct. 7, 2008

Honda has just launched the Latest Insight blog about the upcoming Insight known to many as the Insight II. The blog features pictures and videos but is short on specifications of the production model. Hopefully, Honda will be providing mileage and other specifics in the near future.

Although the Insight II is still officially a concept car it is believed to be very close to what Honda will deliver as a production model in the Spring of 2009. The new Insight is expected to have a base MSRP around $18,500 and believed to be direct competition to Toyota's Prius.

Hopefully, Honda will continue to update the blog with more detailed information. tp://automobiles.honda.com/insight-hybrid/

The Latest Insight Blog. (http://automobiles.honda.com/insight-hybrid/)

that pic looks great. I like it from that angle a lot. still needs wheel covers though!

Looks like there may be some room in the back. Would nice if there was for luggage, or pets.

Hi Reid:

___I love the new interior pic ;)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/Insight-II_Interior.jpg

___It appears that the new iFCD is right in the drivers sightline vs. the HCH-II's off to the left layout. I also believe this will sell well and since it is based on the Fit platform, $18,500 makes perfect sense. In fact, Honda is going to be making a lot of $'s given the Fit is a $14,500 vehicle and IMA is only a $2K or less upgrade for Honda.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

I am somewhat confused by the "based on the Fit platform" comments -- if this is correct what is the promised hybrid Fit supposed to be?

Hi Sean:

___The Insight-II’s width is a dead giveaway as it and the Fit/Jazz are "exactly" the same. The Jazz/Fit future hybrid will probably keep its own 5-door hatch profile while Honda charges more for the Insight-II.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hm. I'd think they would want to stay away from having two hybrids at exactly the same size...

Comments on the Blog are submitted for "approval".

I commented on how disappointing their hints at mileage are. I doubt it will be approved.

nf

I kind of assumed that the insight 2 was the new fit/jazz hybrid. You know, the cheapest hybrid available.

The below image reminds me most of the original Insgiht.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Insight_rear.jpg


















http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/530/Drafting_an_Insight_at_18_mph.JPG

Hi Sean:

___They are not the same size, only width and platform. The Prius is built off the Corolla platform as well.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Anybody know if any of these new hybrids coming out will be offered with a manual transmission? The lack of a manual on the new prius and civic hybrid is a big turn off for me. I would rather things stay simpler.

Hm. I'd think they would want to stay away from having two hybrids at exactly the same size...

From what we read at sites like Cleanmpg and elsewhere, there's no shortage of buyers lining up to buy ANY decently efficient hybrid car. I can't say I quite understand having two cars so close together in spec with different names, unless they've found in market research with the Civic that too many models under one name causes buyer confusion. How many models bear the name Civic today 6 or 7(2 and 4 door models counted separately).

Hopefully Honda will make enough of these that the dealers won't be charging $5k gouges. Also, I hope that the financial institutions are in some sort of semblance so that people who apply for car loans can actually get them.

Anybody know if any of these new hybrids coming out will be offered with a manual transmission? The lack of a manual on the new prius and civic hybrid is a big turn off for me. I would rather things stay simpler.Absolutely not. Honda got burned badly by the MT versions of the original Insight and the 1st gen HCH. Drivers who didn't know what they're doing ended up depleting the packs too much and wearing them out prematurely, to the tune of $4-5k each. I guarantee you that Honda will not let that happen again.

And that's Honda, whose IMA system is at least amenable to MT. In the Honda system, the transmission is a distinct component from the engine-motor combo, and not really an inherent part of the hybrid system. Although Honda currently chooses to use a mechanical CVT exclusively, it would also be feasible to use a conventional MT gearbox (as they did in the past) or even a conventional AT slushbox to get the power from the engine to the wheels.

That's really not possible with Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive (http://www.hybridsynergydrive.com/en/power_split_device.html). HSD uses a completely different design that is neither fish nor fowl here. Here the transmission is what makes the car a hybrid. The HSD includes a planetary gearset with a generator sending a varying amount of power to another motor attached to one of the gears. Besides effectively varying the gear ratio, these two motors also provide the hybrid functionality. In other words, there's nothing you could easily swap out for an MT no sense wishing for the ability to "shift" manually.

Absolutely not. Honda got burned badly by the MT versions of the original Insight and the 1st gen HCH. Drivers who didn't know what they're doing ended up depleting the packs too much and wearing them out prematurely, to the tune of $4-5k each. I guarantee you that Honda will not let that happen again.


True as that is, I don't see why they can't solve the problem with software. The Prius algorithm is a great starting point for a MT solution in that assist can be thought of as more-or-less tied to engine RPM. For low RPM/low power demand, assist is little or none at all. As power demand (and engine RPM) increases, so do the amps coming out of the battery. During acceleration I can usually get away with 3,000 or 3,500RPM out of that little 4-banger before I start consuming battery. (And I ask for that much power maybe once a month given my propensity to and DWL and DWB (drive with brain).) The usual caveat of seeking 60% SoC applies.

Granted, we're talking about a totally different transmission device with different dynamics. But I think the theory could still apply. Consider the engine and electric motor as one unit, as they truly are in a IMA system. The designer's goal should be to use the electric motor to augment the small engine to provide a nice, linear power curve that's steeper than what you would get with the engine alone. That means a little boost at very low RPM, little or none during the flat torque curve of a good ICE, and then increasing assist as that torque curve falls off as ICE rpm's increase. Peak power is plenty acceptable, it would be very driveable, and you don't have the problem of pack killing since the driver would learn to do what would be done in any other car: drop a gear!

I'm sure there are little devils in the details, but Honda could do it if they wanted to. If not, they should hire me and I'll do it for them. ;) But more than likely the deal-breaker is the cost of doing all the work for an implementation that, as much as it pains me, would not sell that many units in the US. Perhaps we will see it in the CR-Z?

Tim, I do think you are correct that better algorithms could do a better job of protecting the battery -- the Prius certainly lasts well even though there millions out there abusing the heck out of the pack every day by draining and charging it multiple times in a relatively short period of time.

Unfortunately, I don't think Honda will invest in such a system -- particularly as their largest market is the US... one not that enamored with manual transmissions. :(

Perhaps we will see it in the CR-Z?

That's sort of what I was hoping. But there is no way I would ever buy that car with an AT. Just look at what CR-X AT cars sell for vs. CR-X MT cars. AT is boring and more expensive to maintain and repair.... bah:mad:

I think I just want Honda to re-manufacture the CR-X HF.

But there is no way I would ever buy that car with an AT.

An AT is a different beast than the CVT, though. I refused a Civic EX AT in favor of an MT, but then got an HCH with CVT and liked it better... a lot better than an automatic.

They are up to a whopping 6 posts now

Comments on the Blog are submitted for "approval".

I commented on how disappointing their hints at mileage are. I doubt it will be approved.

nf

Okay, honda can take some constructive criticism. They posted my disappointment with projected FE hints.

nf