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Hi All:

___Well, she finally let me down after 58K + miles :( I was taking quite a few Scan Gauge II pics 4 days ago after a long but normal FAS into the drive. All the 12V accessories were live for the pics and then she sat for 3 days. Before I booted up this morning, the SG-II reported 12.1 V. Ok, that is a touch low for static but is not out of line. As I was rolling down the drive (ICE-Off) but now booted up with the fuel pump online, the Voltage fell off the cliff. I watched it go from 12.1 to 11.4 V in a matter of seconds … I knew this was an aahhhh ooohhhh so I immediately went for the key to try and light her off. There was barely enough juice to open the injectors let alone turn her over all the while all the 12V sucking accessories are spinning themselves up (EX-L w/ NAVI) is loaded with the darn things. PZEV's need a bit more cranking then the LEV's due to the tight emissions specs on light off so that has not helped either. She was lights off even though it was pitch black at 034:00 AM. Too late however? While still in the Dead - Glide, I pulled through my neighbor’s circular drive and almost made it back to the road in front of my home. I did not quite make it however. A hell of a lot of work pushing and I finally got her back up over the roads crest and barely into my drive where she sat until I arrived home tonight.

___Ok, so the Accord was dead in the drive. I start scrambling to get my gear moved from the Accord to the Ranger. I thought I may as well get the Ranger setup with the SG-II while I was getting ready to take her out. What did I discover? The SG-II would not light off in the Ranger after connecting to her OBD-II port and running through the vatrious IG sequences??? I played with it for other 10 plus minutes not getting anywhere yet having to get to work so to hell with it. Off I went to work with the Ranger about 20 minutes later then normal. Still arrived 40 minutes early but the stress of the morning had taken its toll :(

___I arrived home tonight to replace the OEM with the Optima D35 Yellow Top I ordered a few weeks ago … I knew the inevitable was just a few re-ignitions away but I did not expect a failure just before leaving for work? I charged the OEM for ~ 10 minutes, started her up and brought her into the garage. New Accord V6 battery tray, new Optima Yellow Top, reset the Radio and NAVI codes and she is holding 12.4 V with everything live. At least she will be ready for tomorrow mornings commute :)

___All in a days and nights work I guess …

___Good Luck

___Wayne

I did not quite make it however. A hell of a lot of work pushing and I finally got her back up over the roads crest and barely into my drive where she sat until I arrived home tonight.

OMG...all the way up that driveway ? That's a killer. That's a time where those portable jump start units really come in handy. Did you know that more batteries die in the summer than winter ? Given the 100F temps we've had the last few days, I could see this would be the time where she'd give up the ghost.

How many start cycles would you estimate in those 58K miles on the OEM 12v ? I'll cross my fingers that your starter has a longer MTBF - that'd be a bit more difficult for you to replace on your own :)

BTW, I did get the hitch installed, AND I took pics. I'll start writing the article for the 'how-to' tomorrow, and I'll send via mail as a Word doc, along with some suggestions about where to put it on the site (I'd like to see a 'DIY / maintenance' forum created).

Yikes. That doesn't sound like any fun! At least you knew it was coming and had the Optima ready to go in. Let's keep our fingers crossed that it's as good as it's supposed to be!

Hi Mark:

Here is the last known pic of the OEM taken 5 days ago maintaining the displays before she died yesterday morning … Notice the temperature ;)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/SG-II_Accord_65_4_mpg_Segment_JPG.jpg

___I estimated the Start/Stop cycles upwards of 15 - 17,500 which allowed ~ 4X’s the expected 12V lifespan according to the main stream literature on the subject. Almost 60K miles was a bit short given the actual age but given the duty cycle, she did great! As for the rest of the electrical HW, only time will tell … it will definitely make a good case study someday.

___I cannot wait to see your Hitch write up. What kind of hitch based bike rack did you purchase?

___Tim, the Optima is working as expected on Day #1. I watched her come all the way down to 11.8 over a 1.25 mile long FAS w/ the head lights on and she brought the I4 up without any issue. Without the headlights, she will hold 12.4 -12.5 V in a FAS for what seems like forever. The OEM was hanging down in the 12.1 - 12.2 V Range right after a FAS without headlights ... and slowly falling.

___This tank is shot given the 10 + minutes of idle (twice) to reacquire the NAVI satellites but that was to be expected …

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Wayne,

58,000 miles seems low for the 12-volt battery. :(

Of course, that could be ballpark of when mine went out. Funny thing is the Insight's is about the size of a riding lawn mover battery. :D

Hey, that would be a mod....an Insight as a riding lawn mower - can't go thru the back yard fence door though....

Hi Chuck:

___58K is but most Pb-Acid’s are supposed to last ~ 4,000 start cycles. The OEM lasted ~ 4X’s that amount and I am quite pleased with that result. She still works and on her last checkup (~ 1 month ago) was still pushing out 410 CCA’s at 12.77 V which was well within spec but I could tell the cap was falling short vs. even 3 + months ago and it was time for the upgrade.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Batteries also only last about 3-4 years in my experience. Maybe it has to do with the huge temperature swing they have to go through up here.

3 years and still counting! only dropping to the 11's when the headlights are on as described in Wayne's case.

I"m lucky I don't have any electrical hogs in my car! manual everything rocks! oh and manual transmission rocks too ;)

The battery in my Outback lasted 9.5 years and was still going strong when I replaced it with a battery from the Del Sol that was too large and would pass inspection because the battery tie down strap wouldn't fit.

Is that a run-on sentance?

Heat and Batteries don't go well together. Here is a thought for the Hybrid owners that the battery is behind their seat and vented for cool air through the back deck. Your FE may suffer with running the A/C but I think the owners manual talks about the Heat range that the interior needs to be around to supply cool air for the IMA/Battery, and Electronics located behind the rear seat and cooled from the back deck openings.

I am not going to suggest/tell anyone what to do as far as running the A/C but you might come up on the short end by not suppling enough cool air to the interior in the very Hot Summer Months. Just a thought for Hybrid owners, not even a suggestion from this owner. Just info. only. ;)

tiger (Terry)

BTW, Everyone should know me by now, I'm just supplying info. here only.

Yup. I'm in total agreement. However, I think the battery could handle more than we can. Most of the electronics I know of can handle 100F. I suspect It should be able to handle a little more because the inside of a car parked in the summer can get to 115 in chicago, and I won't even try to guess in Phoenix. Manufacturers must have taken that into account.

I do think keeping it cooler will extend its life though.

In my case temps >100 are rare (maybe 4 or 5 times a year) so I'm not too worried.

I searched for scan gauge and dead battery, and this is the closest I got to what I needed. So I figure I would pose the question. Has anyone had dead batteries because of the scan gauge?

I got a scan gauge for christmas, and before christmas I swore of driving my car all together and now I ride my bike. I put it in my wifes car and a few days later her car wouldn't start, we jumped it off, and got the volts back up, and it worked fine, we unplugged all 12V accessories including the Scan Gauge and didn't have a problem for 2 weeks. I figured maybe it was the satellite radio, so I plugged the Scan Gauge back in, and now 2 days later the car won't start.

Is this unit using power when the car is off?

This is a 1999 Chevy Blazer.

Hi Kermit:

___You will see the SG-II go to sleep in any car with the Ice-Off and key removed after a minute or so. It draws very little so a dead battery would be caused by something else …

___In the case of the wife’s vehicle, she usually leaves a light on overnight about once a month and then complains that the battery is dead. Doh :D

___Good Luck

___Wayne

I wouldn't be too quick to rule out the SG as a possible cause. Part of the reason I don't leave mine active is that I don't trust it to turn off. Something about the way the Prius CAN turns on the SG at odd times, and I have gone outside on occasion to find the thing turned on and waiting for who knows what in the middle of the night. I don't know how much current it draws, but it might well be enough to kill a battery over the course of a couple of days. Especially if the battery is already on its way out.

My suggestion would be to take the battery somewhere (Autozon, NAPA, etc.) to have it load tested. If it's good, keep an eye on that ScanGauge. It's not like we have much experience with Blazers (or Chevy products at all, really) so it's possible that the car and ScanGauge may be doing something similar to what mine does with the Prius.

My scan gauge in the tundra causes my air bag light to illuminate when when the key is removed. Never caused a dead battery though.

Hi Tim:

___The next time I speak with Ron, I will mention this discussion but I can bet an SG-II has probably less then a 10W draw active let alone asleep or off?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

___The next time I speak with Ron, I will mention this discussion but I can bet an SG-II has probably less then a 10W draw active let alone asleep or off?

Electronics packaging is my biz...that little plastic package would be a pile of melted goo with 10 Watts going into it. I doubt it's more than 2 Watts.

In any case, I've been back to commuting by bike a lot lately myself and have been charging the battery prior to use (along with inflating the tires) since I might use it once a week. The PCM has a pretty high current draw when asleep, and the manual recommends disconnecting the battery if it's not to be used for a couple of weeks. I will probably start doing this instead of charging it after its next use, since it uses less mains power than charging.

If it's been sitting for a few days and I don't charge it, the ICE will light off okay, but the voltage will drop quickly in the first few FAS' and trip MPG will usually suffer from the extra alternator load.

There's been a couple of times where I've come back from a walk after dark when I've noticed the ScanGauge II backlight on.

Seems like some obscure combination of remote lock / remote trunk unlock / remote lock wakes the ScanGauge II up and it never sleeps. Or it could just as likely have something to do with me stepping on a crack in the sidewalk.

But anyhow, I have caught the ScanGauge II awake a few times.

-mr. bill

I've seen that symptom in my 8th gen Civic (not an SI, though) as well. After the car has been locked for a time, unlocking it with the remote would turn the SG back on. It would stay in its "Connecting" mode (can't connect because the ECM isn't powered up) and not turn back off or go to sleep, presumably forever (I only left it for a couple hours to test).

You might want to e-mail linear logic about it. I did, and Ron sent back a message saying:

"Unlocking the car is causing a transient in the electrical system that causes the voltage to drop below 3V at the OBDII connector. This may be a problem with the wiring of the vehicle routing the lock solenoid current through a common wire with the OBDII power. We have a fix that will turn the ScanGaugeII off even if it is in the "Connecting..." mode after 75 seconds."

They applied that fix to my SG when I sent it in for the 3.15 upgrade and I've seen it happen multiple times since, always turning off after 75 second. I'd recommend contacting LL about it -- the fix is worth the peace of mind IMO.

Dead batteries stink :( Sorry that happened.

Franklin TN! Your not far from me at all.
I'm just outside Mcminnville.
We should start a Tenn. Hypermilers club.

It must be contagious. I went out to start my '98 dakota yeasterday and the battery had enough juice to unlock the door and light up the dash but not enough to turn the starter over. It was an interstate battery and it was 6 years and 5 months old and lasted for 91,000 miles. I went to auto zone and picked up a gold top battery and it solved my problems. Batteries seem to die during extreme heat or extreme cold.

John

Lots of info about batteries here: http://jgdarden.com/batteryfaq/carfaq2.htm

including this chart, originally from Interstate:
http://jgdarden.com/batteryfaq/lifemap.jpg

Batteries have reduced power output in the cold, but it's heat that kills them.

Electronics packaging is my biz...that little plastic package would be a pile of melted goo with 10 Watts going into it. I doubt it's more than 2 Watts.

In any case, I've been back to commuting by bike a lot lately myself and have been charging the battery prior to use (along with inflating the tires) since I might use it once a week. The PCM has a pretty high current draw when asleep, and the manual recommends disconnecting the battery if it's not to be used for a couple of weeks. I will probably start doing this instead of charging it after its next use, since it uses less mains power than charging.

If it's been sitting for a few days and I don't charge it, the ICE will light off okay, but the voltage will drop quickly in the first few FAS' and trip MPG will usually suffer from the extra alternator load.

I recently left the SG sleeping on a NiCd battery for well over a month and completely drained it, so I decided to quantify the amount of energy it's using.

I plugged the SG into a NiCd battery (via an Enet cable dongle) with a measured 3486 mAh capacity at a nominal 12V and used it (with some occasional breaks for short drives) for about 19 days and measured the remaining capacity afterward, which was 1779 mAh.

This gives roughly (3486-1179 mAh)(12 V)/19 days * (1 day/24 h) = ~60 mW.

So, it consumes roughly 60 mW (including NiCd battery self-discharge, which is somewhat negligible in comparison) when asleep.

If you figure that a typical car battery would run 100W of lights for about an hour, it'd take the SG about 10 weeks to completely drain a battery at that level of consumption. However, there are other parasitic drains (e.g. PCM, radio, etc.) as well that shorten this significantly, and it also takes a much shorter time for the discharge level of the battery to start affecting FE from extra alternator load, even when it's not completely drained.

Bottom line: unplug the SG when you're not using it, disconnect the battery if the car isn't going to be used for an extended period, and/or use a charger to keep the battery topped up to minimize your alternator load and FE hit.

I generally plug the SG into a separate battery, disconnect the starter battery and charge it whenever I'm done using the car, since I never know when I'll use it next.