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View Full Version : Insight-II concept on the Paris stage


xcel
10-02-2008, 01:55 PM
Final version to be shown in Detroit in January. (www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=153046)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Insight-II_concept_News.jpgWayne Gerdes – CleanMPG (cleanmpg.com) – Oct. 2, 2008

The Slick looking 2009 Honda Insight-II.

Honda today revealed a concept version of its new compact Insight-II at the 2008 Paris Motor Show. The new Insight Concept shares styling cues with the Honda FCX Clarity fuel cell vehicle and provides an early look at the highly anticipated five-passenger hybrid vehicle.

“For the long term, we believe fuel cell electric vehicle technology is the ultimate environmental solution. And we have begun introducing the industry- leading Honda FCX Clarity to individual customers to advance this technology,” said Takeo Fukui, president and chief executive officer of Honda. “To reduce CO2 emissions in the near term, Honda believes the best approach is to advance hybrid technology to mainstream customers.”

The compact Insight-II Concept measures 172.2 in. in length, 66.7 in. in width, and 56.1 in. in height, with concept based wheels and tires. Compared to the current HCH-II, the Insight-II concept is 4.5” shorter, 2.1” thinner and .3” shorter.

The all-new Insight-II to be developed from the Insight Concept will be a five-door, five-passenger hatchback equipped with Honda’s latest generation lightweight and compact IMA-IV system including the standard 1.3-liter gasoline engine serving as the main power source assisted by an electric motor. While achieving fuel economy on par with the Civic Hybrid, the new Insight will also achieve excellent utility and light and comfortable driving through the adoption of a new platform developed specifically for this vehicle. Honda will begin sales of the all-new Insight in Japan, Europe and North America in spring 2009, and projects annual global sales of 200,000 units.

With a reduction in size and weight of the hybrid system, Honda reduced the cost of our hybrid system and initial estimates are an asking MSRP between $18,500 and $20,000.

While Honda continues to view the FCX Clarity fuel-cell vehicle as the ultimate solution, they intend to position the Insight as an environmentally-responsible vehicle available to everyone in the spring 2009. Expected annual global sales of 200,000 units should be achievable if the “price is right.”

xcel
10-02-2008, 02:34 PM
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/Insight-II_Collage03.jpg
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/Insight-II_Collage02.jpg
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/Insight-II_Collage01.jpg

Shiba3420
10-02-2008, 02:38 PM
That concept is certainly a sexy little beast. Who wouldn't want to drive that?

Right Lane Cruiser
10-02-2008, 02:48 PM
I'll reserve final judgment for when we can get real numbers out of the thing in testing but if all they did was repackage the HCH-II I'll be mightily disappointed. :(

hhooks
10-02-2008, 03:21 PM
Honda has posted a video on the Insight section of its official website.

Ophbalance
10-02-2008, 03:22 PM
They could at least slap on the insight rear wheel skirts ;).

donee
10-02-2008, 07:30 PM
Hi All,

This car looks to be a value-engineering job. Its $3K cheaper version of the HCH II, with no loss of EPA FE performance. By making it smaller, and with a better Cd, they can reduce the battery, motor and inverter sizes.

Less cross section area, and better Cd gives better CdA. Which means its forte' might be SABM in the high 80's mpg at 56 mph. Maybe even 90 mpg!

But, sadly, its not going to win any metro commuting mileage awards.

Right Lane Cruiser
10-02-2008, 07:58 PM
Maybe it will still surprise us -- we'll just have to wait and see!

mtgeekman
10-02-2008, 08:43 PM
My only question is weather or not it will be available with a manual transmission. CVT is great and all but some people prefer 5spd over automatic...

lamebums
10-02-2008, 10:39 PM
My only question is weather or not it will be available with a manual transmission. CVT is great and all but some people prefer 5spd over automatic...

Agreed...count me out if the car comes with a CVT only.

Then again I will probably not be in the new car market for some time since I met a guy yesterday who also has a 2000 Echo with 320,000 miles on the odometer and nothing's ever broken down on him. Ever. Except the usual stuff like tires, brakes, and oil.

Ophbalance
10-02-2008, 10:51 PM
I thought I've seen posted here in the past that Honda will no longer do a manual coupled with a hybrid due to owners being abusive to the packs (more so than the CVT is)? Could be my imagination, but I'm sure I've seen that mentioned.

Right Lane Cruiser
10-02-2008, 11:44 PM
Matthew, you are correct. The HCH hasn't been available with one since '05 and Insight production ceased in '06. It is too easy to lug the engine and cause excessive depth and frequency of battery cycling -- if you aren't careful you can severely damage the battery that way. Honda had a disproportionately large percentage of battery failures in manual transmission models and decided not to manufacture that combination any more.

Sorry guys, the Insight-II will definitely only be offered in CVT format.

Elixer
10-02-2008, 11:48 PM
More than 40mpg in a good sized sedan at less than 20K. Though we'd all love to see a bit more FE, it doesn't take away the fact that this car is an absolutely great deal. The total cost of ownership is going to be very very low.

Also, I love the look of this car. It's definitely a car for me to think about when I'm in the market in a couple of years.

w4wfm
10-03-2008, 07:21 AM
Honda need to make it meet the new credit requirements. The advantage of a $4168 tax credit would be an important differential.

W4WFM

voodoo22
10-03-2008, 08:28 AM
Couple this with the gearing of the Fit and you can see why Honda is not number 1 in the world. What a missed opportunity.

jsmithy
10-03-2008, 08:58 AM
That's HOT!

Showbizk
10-03-2008, 09:08 AM
Great-looking, ~20K, 5-passenger (although the rear passengers couldn't possibly be full-size!). What's not to love? :flag: The CVT? Why? I'm totally out of touch with the disadvantages you guys speak of...thanks!

chilimac02
10-03-2008, 09:32 AM
I like it. Maybe in 2015 when I buy a new car this thing will have better FE.

WriConsult
10-03-2008, 11:09 AM
I agree with RLC -- you will never see another MT equipped hybrid from Honda, or at least not until a few years after the next round of battery technology has come along. They got burned badly in the past and are not about to let it happen again. And as we've seen from the MT Fit's gearing, Honda isn't afraid to sacrifice a few mpg to satisfy some other objective that it deems important.

noflash
10-03-2008, 11:57 AM
We should consider that one guy stated the mileage will be similar to the HCH-II, the car is smaller (presumably lighter), has better aerodynamics, and while it has the same 1.3 liter engine, the IMA is a newer version.

Is HAS to get better mileage based on everything we know, agreed?

nf

Harold
10-03-2008, 12:29 PM
It should give better mileage noflash. But the HCH2 is pretty slippery as well. Low drag #'s anyway, so there may not be much differance. The Insight is not that much smaller and look at those fat wheels and tires. And no skirts! I would hope there is greater fe however! H

xcel
10-03-2008, 01:00 PM
Hi NoFlash:

___I completely agree with your assessment. Consider this… While the Insight-II is smaller than the HCH-II in every dimension, it is very similar to the Fit as I have suspected that the Insight-II would be built off the City/Jazz/Fit platform for many months now and the width is a dead giveaway.

2009 Honda Fit------------2010 Insight-II
Length = 161.6”-------------172.2” (Notice the ~ 10” rear overhang vs. the Fit?)
Height = 60.0”---------------56.1” in height
Width= 66.7”----------------66.7” width

___We see the size comparison so let us add the lighter weight next gen IMA-IV system to the 2,490 pound Fit and you have a 2,650 to 2,700 pound Insight-II vs. the HCH-II’s 2,877.

___Given the lighter weight, better aerodynamics than the HCH-II (I would not doubt Honda touched .24 if the underbody is clean) and who knows what else Honda is/will do to the 1.3L ICE (A-VTEC possibly), we might see a 50 mpg highway vehicle in the form of the Insight-II? I seriously doubt it will come near the 48mpg city rating the Prius-II is capable of however.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Chuck
10-04-2008, 02:39 PM
Really late to this thread, but agreed with what many have said.

The main goal is to offer a sedan hybrid in the 20K or under range and open up the market. It should get at least a little better than the HCHII, but apparently won't do a lot better.

As far as those of us with the Insight I, there will still not be much company in the 70mpg and better range except hypermiling Prius and PHEV Prius, maybe an occasional Aptera.

mtgeekman
10-04-2008, 03:37 PM
Well, I agree with the manual transmission thoughts. But I will talk to the local honda dealer about a test drive as soon as one shows up.



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