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OK Here goes.

Something has to be done about healthcare. I am paying for my own. As of this month, we are now paying $1630.00 per month(this is an estimate I will put in the exact figure in a few minutes). Out family has no medical history and no medical problems. We have myself, my wife, 2 unmarried sons 19 and 22 and a married son 25 and his wife 25. It is out of control.

Also, we have a $1000 deductible per person to help keep the costs down.

Just don't think the Canadian health care system is something to be jealous of. It's not like the many European systems where everything is covered to some degree. Like in Britain where your parking is even paid if you park to go to the hospital and all medication is the same price.

I've had to pay over $10000 this year in medical bills because my wife needed procedures not covered by the Federal, provincial governments or our health care at work.

Canada's health care system is very broken and not one to be envious of and this year has been a real eye opener for us. Wait times in emergency rooms and to see specialists often run several hours and the level of service is horse cr@p.

If we hadn't educated ourselves and forced the doctors we dealt with to do their jobs, my wife would be dead now and who knows how much this 2nd rate health care is costing us as it's hidden in taxes. Taxes which aid greatly in making things; on average; 16% more expensive in Canada vs the US.

So please, don't use Canada as a good example. The lights are on here, but the igloo is melting.

We got a new health plan this year. It's one that offers an HSA instead a traditional plan. The good news? The plan has a $3k premium price, and a fixed $4k deductible. After that, my employer meets an additional $6k deductible. After that, the insurance pays 100% for everything. The bad news? The $4k deductible is pulled out throughout the year, and if you have a really expensive procedure on Jan 1, you're just SOL and need to come up with some sort of payment plan that will appease the hospital. And for every portion of the $6k of the employers portion, you need to send in a copy of the form the insurance sends you and then get payment to forward on to the medical center. It's a right pain in the arse, but I'll take a fixed cost of $7k over having a premium of $8700 and then an additional 5-10k of possible deductible costs (out of network was 10k) and a 20% co-insurance... which was our second option. I concur though, that I hate insurance plans.

I can't complain about ours I guess. I pay $75 every two weeks for our family. My wife has it on her through the college, but to add me, our daughter and son to it, it would be an additional $600.

She and I both have flex plans at work.My plan year starts at Jan. 1 and hers at Oct. 1. We each do some and it works out great. For those that don't know, it is a PRETAX plan that will cover deductibles and other out of pocket expenses such as dental and eye coverage.

If you think a 1 trillion financial bail out is scary, you ain't seen nothing yet. Wait until we have universal health care paid by the government. Think about it, it was out attempt to socialize risk by giving home loans to the unqualified that got us into the financial mess. We could get health care just as screwed up by making the wrong decisions.

My personal opinion is that the problem with health care is on the cost side, NOT on the funding side. My wife and I travel some to Mexico for dental care. It is indicative of where some cost improvements could be made. Just for arguement sake:-)
1. Dramatically reduce regulation of health care.
2. Dramatically reduce the administrative overhead.
3. Institute a "one" system for all. Don't let the rich establish a two tier system.
4. Make the hard choices about end-of-life care problem. Pass nation wide euthinasia(sp?) policies for those who want that option.
5. Cap medical compensation in the "one" system.
6. Do not allow patients to engage "heroic" medical efforts at the cost of everyone else. If someone wants a heart transplant at 75, let them fly to Maylasia and pay out of their own pocket.
7. More carefully review drug theopies(sp?) for appropriate cost/benefit.
8. Seriously cap medical liability!

The cap on medical compensation will be argued, but I don't believe the threat of professional flight is serious. Where they gonna go? England, Canada, Mexico?

Jeez. I never realized how lucky I am with my insurance. I pay nothing. Only a $10 co-pay. One of the benefits of being union I guess.

Does either one of the candidates have a real health care plan. I know there is a lot of retoric about it, but does either one have an actual plan.

Although at the time of Hillarycare, I was against it, now I may be for it. It is getting so expensive. It is almost as much as minimum wage.

Jeez. I never realized how lucky I am with my insurance. I pay nothing. Only a $10 co-pay. One of the benefits of being union I guess.

Sign me up for the union. Who has to applications:eek:

8. Seriously cap medical liability!
Agreed. Both for drugs and doctors.

Thinking from a drug makers perspective here:
Facing both the prospects of potential billions in lawsuits if there turn out to be negative side effects, and high costs in testing and certifying, what will you rather do? Develop a drug that targets a small audience or a large one? There isn't enough potential money in a small drug to offset the risks and costs.

As consumers, we are too happy to "lawsuit" everything. A drug has side effects? SUE!

Who do you sue if the drug you need doesn't exist? The one that might otherwise exist, in a more friendly environment for the makers. There's a lot of pressure to only invest in the Sure Thing and not in ones that merely might be good.

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The other thing I see happening is unnecessary treatments happening, simply because the cost is insulated by insurance. That drives up costs and insurance rates for everyone, but it's so indirect that the cause and effect is nearly invisible.

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Jud, have you looked at NASE (http://www.nase.org/)for insurance? A friend used to use them and it looked good at a glance.

OK Here goes.

Something has to be done about healthcare. I am paying for my own. As of this month, we are now paying $2000 per month(this is an estimate I will put in the exact figure in a few minutes). Out family has no medical history and no medical problems. We have myself, my wife, 2 unmarried sons 19 and 22 and a married son 25 and his wife 25. It is out of control.

Also, we have a $1000 deductible per person to help keep the costs down.

If I read that right. You are paying for yourself and your adult children? That is out of control on your part if I read that right. My parents never paid a nickle of my health care cost once I reached the age of 18. Its called adulthood. My children also pay there own health care cost since the age of 18.

I do agree we need to look into health care cost. Get the lawyers and the goverment out of it would be a good start. I worked in health care for 8 years. The things Ive seen would make the pope pull out the devils bible and worship.

I am going to out on a limb here, but I think the employer funded medical system is outdated and should be replaced.

As a brief history, employers started providing health care as a means of attracting employees. This happened in the first part of the last century as medical costs started to climb. The average person started to need a "plan" as the cost started to go out of reach. This is partly because new methods and procedures were developed that needed to be paid for. Frankly if you got real sick before, they just died.

It has now escalated well beyond the average person ability to cover costs, and employers are having a tough time keeping costs down also.

So with all this said, does anyone have any solutions.

If I read that right. You are paying for yourself and your adult children? That is out of control on your part

Well sort of, my two youngest are in college, so yes I am paying for them while they are in college. My other son works for me so he gets it as an employee benefit. I checked with my wife (the bill payer) and our part of the premium is 1334.00 per month.

Interesting enough, my older son's wife jacks that premium up substantially. I guess men and boys are cheaper then women.

So with all this said, does anyone have any solutions.

Well, we could start by strong considering models that are highly popular. I mean, surely that means something right?

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=927

I don't know much about Netherlands health care, but I'm pretty sure that I'd like it. They seem to.

I do know that the only pieces of US healthcare with a semblance of popularity are (1) the VA, and (2) Medicare. How about using one of those two models?

Sign me up for the union. Who has to applications:eek:

www.upsjobs.com :p

There are plenty of people that work part time at UPS and have a full time day job. I work part-time myself by the way. No day job though.

Well sort of, my two youngest are in college, so yes I am paying for them while they are in college. My other son works for me so he gets it as an employee benefit. I checked with my wife (the bill payer) and our part of the premium is 1334.00 per month.

Interesting enough, my older son's wife jacks that premium up substantially. I guess men and boys are cheaper then women.

Our kids worked full time and also carried a full class load while in school. They then purchased health care plan through the college. they got some real sweet student deals on health care coverage.

The wife and i have coverage through our jobs. and if they want us. they will pay or we go down the road. The wifes is $0 100% coverage, with a medical savings acct. Major, minor medical, dental and eyes.

Mine cost me 50$ a month no savings acct. But with all premium care medical, dental, eyes,,, you name it. I do have a $500 deduct per year. But my doc's and service providers fix that for me. :) I go to the doc. Its paid.

The wife and I work very hard for our benny's. Say i have a hearth attack. The bill is paid and I get full pay for the time Im off work. One of our daughters is having a surgery today. The wife is off with her for the next two days,, paid in full. If I have to leave to help with taking care of my grandchildren. I will get paid in full. Both the companys we work for beleive very much in family support. My boss is off right now because of illness in the family. With full pay.

Its all in how you work. Work being a issue in this country right now. Most just flat out don't want to do it! And expect a free ride.

I guess men and boys are cheaper then women.

LOL, I need to go into standup comedy. That statement right there could be used for at least 10 minutes of material.

And psyshack, I need to show my wife your signature. Time to modernize.

Great for you Psy,

For you health care is not an issue, for others like mjyself it is a problem things need to change.

Great for you Psy,

For you health care is not an issue, for others like mjyself it is a problem things need to change.

I agree something has to be done. Start with getting the lawyers and goverment out of it. That will help.

I agree something has to be done. Start with getting the lawyers and goverment out of it. That will help.
Quoted for truth.

The problem is that no one is looking at the system in the right way. We need to bring the cost of care down, and to do that we need to go after the companies that are in control of our health system and we need to bring down the real cost of care, instead of fighting about who should pay for it. First thing to do:

1. Ban all drug advertising. There is so much drug advertising on TV it is ridiculous. For many drug companies ~%50 of their spendings is advertising. That and we have millions of people taking medications which don't need them. Who's paying for it? the insurance companies. That drives up the cost of premiums. This also gives better care for patients because it eliminates disinformation.

2. Simplify and get rid of bullsh**. With medicare and medicaid there are some policies that allow someone to go to a specialist and pay the same amount as going to a normal doctor. You don't need a blood specialist for example to tell you you're anemic for example, the test is extremely simple for a normal doctor to do, so if you want to go to a specialist you should pay more.

3. Get people healthier. Obesity is raging like a mad storm across the US. Something needs to be done to get people healthier. This is done with many small programs. What we need is every American to get a half-hour of exercise every day.

I've always said the government should drop $5 or 10 billion a year into building and maintaining gym's. Free membership and open to the public and then launch a campaign to remind people to get healthy.

Even if 10% of the people catch on it would mean a huge health benefit to everyone.

What jimepting said. We place *far* too much value on human
life in this country, including in situations where it's ridiculous
to continue and yet people insist on doing so [or having medical
personnel do so] and then sue them if they "fail". I got a good
solid rant about all this recently from someone who's a head
nurse locally and sees it all, and is all for hospice and sensible
resolution. And the fact that we spend money to patch up criminals
who got shot up while knocking over a 7-11 just so we can then
prosecute them and spend taxpayer money keeping them locked
away -- f'krissake, get REAL. All of this combines to send the
costs out of control, as everyone's observed. Step 1 is internalizing
just how expendable any one of us really is, and step 2 is chopping
out the link to religion that drives a lot of the unreasoned
thinking.
.
_H*

Yeah I need to start buying some health insurance. I'm thinking of scott&white or something, looks like it'll be around $110 per month.

How does health insurance through the workplace work? I mean right now I can only work about 12 hours a week due to school, so if I get a job with "healthcare benefits", does that mean I get free healthcare with the job? Or would they just be taking $50 out of each of my biweekly paychecks?

Yeah my job sucks. Only benefits are free pizza and free beer the nights I work.

Or would they just be taking $50 out of each of my biweekly paychecks?.
That's usually how it works. The slight benefit is that it's taken out pre-tax.

Step 1 is internalizing
just how expendable any one of us really is, and step 2 is chopping
out the link to religion that drives a lot of the unreasoned
thinking.
.
_H*

Of course I have a huge problem with this statement. Explain how religion would cause unreasonable thinking? Maybe to you but certainly not to me.

I read this at another site Link (http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/obama-tax-plan-a-frontal-assault-on-entrepreneurs/2/):
Health care costs encumber entrepreneurs because they make it expensive to hire needed employees. The way out is to make the market more competitive and to use tax policy to encourage people to get insurance. Current market conditions are anti-competitive. Insurance companies have virtual in-state monopolies. We need to end border-related restrictions on insurance. Secondly, we need to untie insurance from your job. Instead, we need to make health insurance premiums tax-deductible for everyone. If you are indigent or below a certain income level, the government should issue vouchers to you for basic coverage and catastrophic coverage. This will cause virtually everyone in the U.S. to be covered. It will be far cheaper than the Obama socialized medical program. Competition will cause insurance companies to drop price and increase service. Innovation will come to insurance and new and different types of policies will enter the market, making it even more competitive. Consumer behavior will cause people to shop for insurance and minimize costs while trying to increase coverage. Once we embrace the free market, we can take on doctors — and the attorneys that sue them!

How does health insurance through the workplace work? I mean right now I can only work about 12 hours a week due to school, so if I get a job with "healthcare benefits", does that mean I get free healthcare with the job? Or would they just be taking $50 out of each of my biweekly paychecks?

All plans differ. Some plans are free for the employee. Most every plan is alike in that when you add family to the plan the rates increase drastically. Shouldn't be too much for just one person though. In most cases a larger company will have cheaper benefits, because they can get a better rate. Try to get on with UPS part time. They have great benefits!

I am going to out on a limb here, but I think the employer funded medical system is outdated and should be replaced.

I agree with you. The days of working long-term (much less a lifetime) for one employer are long past. The reality of todays economy is that people change jobs a lot, and throughout one's lifetime a person might drop out (voluntarily or in voluntarily) of the workforce for school or other job-related training.

I'm 38, single, graduate student, and my COBRA is 1/2 my mortgage. Which reminds me, once I get my exam next week out of the way, I need to shop for another plan. :(

I worked in health care (actually quasi- as it was counseling) for 10 years. Managed a for-profit counseling agency. Experienced healthcare funding issue as a billing provider and an employer shopping for insurance. Like Psy, I've seen outrageous things.

Bestmapman- I'm guessing you're getting creamed because your daughter-in-law is in prime child bearing years. Whenever I shopped insurance, that was a prime consideration in many of the quotes.

Hobbit- Could not the argument be made that the "unreasonable" assumption of an afterlife make some more willing to accept death?

Funding- No easy answer. My take: Too many entities between the provider and consumer. A consumer has no idea how much something costs, AND DOESN"T WANT TO KNOW. They just want it to be magic. And providers benefit from keeping the process mysterious. No problem, we'll just fund case managers, gate keepers, regulators, etc to help keep our costs ?down??:rolleyes:
This doesn't mean I advocate an "everyone is on their own" approach. \
Still waiting for the epiphany.

Keith

I am not a communist, but I kind of like the way the Soviet union did it. All doctors were put on the same salary as teachers - overnight, more or less :)

I am not a communist, but I kind of like the way the Soviet union did it. All doctors were put on the same salary as teachers - overnight, more or less :)

That's why they had to have walls, to keep the Doctors there (and most everyone else).:rolleyes:

i am very fortunate in that my employer pays all my costs, except for for $10 a month, which is a recent addition. it used to be totally free. they pay 50% of the premiums for family coverage.

since i am part of management, i see what happens every year when it's time to renew......we end up negotiating to try and keep the costs down. almost every year it's a double digit increase in coverage, sometimes as high as 30%!! why? i just don't get it.......

another problem i have seen is the executives in this industry bleed off a lot! millions in stock options and salaries, while those who need to pay for the coverage end up broke. the whole system sucks.

I am not a communist, but I kind of like the way the Soviet union did it. All doctors were put on the same salary as teachers - overnight, more or less :)

That would be disastrous. Doctors would be getting out of the business left and right. The Soviet Union probably didn't have the malpractice insurance rates that the US has. The better thing to do would be elimiating the frivolous lawsuits, and not just the medically related ones. Insurance as a whole has gotten ridiculous!

@93Hatch

It is only frivolous until it happens to you. If someone screws up your order at a resturaunt they usually give you something free. If someone screws up a surgery, what exactly are they going to give you for free? People screw up that is part of life, the difference is majority of business try to make it right. Medical office often feel that they are above this. The law suits are needed to keep these things in check, since they don't take care of them selves.

@93Hatch

It is only frivolous until it happens to you. If someone screws up your order at a resturaunt they usually give you something free. If someone screws up a surgery, what exactly are they going to give you for free? People screw up that is part of life, the difference is majority of business try to make it right. Medical office often feel that they are above this. The law suits are needed to keep these things in check, since they don't take care of them selves.

The problem with lawsuits is the the victim doesn't get most of the money, the lawyers do. The worst example is the class action lawsuit, where the victims get literally pennies and the lawyers get multi millions. How does that help anyting unless you are a lawyer.

@bestmapman

I agree with you on that.

I've always said the government should drop $5 or 10 billion a year into building and maintaining gym's. Free membership and open to the public and then launch a campaign to remind people to get healthy.

Even if 10% of the people catch on it would mean a huge health benefit to everyone.

That's a great idea. In general we need a greater focus on preventative care and doing something before people get sick. Oz. of prevention == Lb. of cure, right?

So we have thousands of empty government run Gyms?

Government mandated calisthenics would fix that.

So we have thousands of empty government run Gyms?

My membership at Gold's Gym is $22/month, which I pay in cash once every 18 months ($400). As a broke college student that isn't chump change. (It's due in two weeks.) I would certainly go to a free gym if I had the chance (NKU's gyms are too crowded at all times with roided-out meatheads not to mention the gas needed to get there).

The problem with lawsuits is the the victim doesn't get most of the money, the lawyers do. The worst example is the class action lawsuit, where the victims get literally pennies and the lawyers get multi millions. How does that help anyting unless you are a lawyer.

Some jurisdictions do have too many lawsuits, but one good thing about lawsuits is that they give crooked and incompetent people something to fear. It helps keep surgeons sober and in a world where hospitals, like most businesses, are incorporated it is often the only way anybody is likely to be held accountable for errors.


I'm speaking as one who at work has been subpoenaed and been both defendant and plaintiff but never gone to court in civil matters (never for mistakes I personally made, knock on wood). The stuff I've been involved in has never been resolved exactly right, but has always ended up closer to right than if nobody filed suit. I'm more worried that we'll be sued over some mistake I might make than that somebody will sue us over something that they imagine or exagerate. Physicians have the reputation of not being humble about their work, so I take their complaints about "malpractice abuse" with a grain of salt.

When one of my previous engineering employers was losing money and preparing to close our branch they became, um, lazy about correcting errors and their ethical standard literally became "Well, but do you think they would sue over it." I believe that not enough people sued them. Probably it should be easier to sue companies like my former employer over small frauds. The only successful suits I'm aware of for small frauds have been in class action suits where plaintiffs only ended up collecting small sums.

Does anybody here have an official estimate of what malpractice payments' share of total societal medical costs are? I'm guessing that it is somewhere between 1 and 5% and isn't a major driver in health care costs. The medical costs of hypochondria and riotous living seem likely to be a lot higher to me.

The medical costs of hypochondria and riotous living seem likely to be a lot higher to me.

"riotous living" Hmm, Maybe I've been missing out on all the fun.

Working in a hospital for 8 years I saw lawyers get dragged into all sorts of stuff. I've seen folks sue because the bed squeaked. People sue because they tripped on a expansion joint that is flat and smooth on a side walk. Ive seen family members sue because there gang banger son had 8 bullet holes in him and he died. Ive seen other gang bangers come in with bullet holes in them. The hospital secure there money belt with $50k bucks in it. The hospital return it to them in tact and the gang banger tell them to get screwed and never pay a dime on the bill. Ive seen parents sue because there infant child was all tangled up in the umbilical cord and died.

In the 8 years I was dealing with worthless humans in the hospital. Maybe 1 in 1000 lawsuits had any merit. The courts should throw most of them out. There are a lot of gold digging idiots out there.

Working in a hospital for 8 years I saw lawyers get dragged into all sorts of stuff. I've seen folks sue because the bed squeaked. People sue because they tripped on a expansion joint that is flat and smooth on a side walk. Ive seen family members sue because there gang banger son had 8 bullet holes in him and he died. Ive seen other gang bangers come in with bullet holes in them. The hospital secure there money belt with $50k bucks in it. The hospital return it to them in tact and the gang banger tell them to get screwed and never pay a dime on the bill. Ive seen parents sue because there infant child was all tangled up in the umbilical cord and died.

In the 8 years I was dealing with worthless humans in the hospital. Maybe 1 in 1000 lawsuits had any merit. The courts should throw most of them out. There are a lot of gold digging idiots out there.

You saw 1000 lawsuits in eight years--yikes.

Maybe it works differently with medicine, but talking to and listening to people actually heads off most of the nutty stuff I come across--sometimes I'm the guy sent to talk unofficially to the neighborhood torch and pitchfork mob when some industrial menace has to investigate a chemical release that has leached onto the neighbor's property. These people often talk about wanting to sue and some probably would have good grounds for a case, but mostly they just want to be listened to and to honestly be told about options and possibilities. My experience with hospitals is that their ability to listen and discuss options is pretty uneven and ticking people off by not talking nice to them after over billing them and screwing up is a pretty sure way to get sued.

My Father's twin died at birth in 1930 from a similar umbilical cord problem to what you described. My Grandfather was pretty unimpressed with the doctors since he sometimes solved that problem himself when mid-wifing farm animals. It's no coincidence that my father and his twin were the only ones in his family born in the hospital, but there was no lawsuit. I doubt that those doctors were doing their best work when that kid died. If it was my kid and they told me afterward that it totally wasn't their fault you can bet I would be riled. They would need to be careful to avoid legal proceedings because, if nothing else, I would think they needed a sharp shock to learn some humility from the experience.

That said, you do come across the one to five percent of society that's just bats**t insane and it probably takes more customer service skill and patience to handle them than some physicians and hospitals have--fortunately most of those people won't come across well in court and will have trouble winning a lawsuit.

If you can prove that someone is gold digging usually they go away. Next week I have a project where I will be seeing if there are still diesel fumes in the basement of a property owner who is receiving workman's comp and wearing a neck brace--nice guy though. I'll be sure to take lots of notes and pictures. :)

I would be in a room replacing a light bulb and some fool would pick up a phone and call a lawyer because I was in there room disturbing them.

Two weeks ago my youngist daughter gave birth to my sixth grandchild. All went well and she is a doll. A few days later there best friends lost there child. She was 5 months on. The child became wraped up in the cord and died in the womb. It was heart breaking. I know folks that have sued the OB over something like that. It was nobodys fault.

I have seen true screw ups by staff, doc's, tech and nursing. And through QA its clear that most issues lead back to staffing issues. Folks just flat out over worked. I learned that the medical industry is nothing more than a human fender, mechanic and body shop. While that may seem cruel to some. Its the truth.

When you look at the level of care most folks get be it good or bad heaven forbid. There is a giant machine at work. The machine in place that runs 24/7 to keep a 500 bed hospital going is a monster at best. The work that goes into keeping a country doctors office running is insane.

All the little parts all have reg's. The gov. is in all of it. The lawyers are ready to pounce in a heart beat. You have all these guidelines. Joint Commission, AOA, BOCA, Local, State and Fed codes. CDC, the list is a mile long. Its insane. Hospitals have to charge 10 bucks for aspirin or tissue because the state or a ins. company will only pay $3k for a heart valve that had to be flown in to save a persons life. The reality is,, the valve cost $6k bucks or vascular synthetic graphs. That say a person who almost had a anurisom blow out on them. X-ray film with its silver and the recovery systems in place to recycle the silver can cost a ton of money.

I think microwaves found in all our kitchens are killing us and are a leader in cancer. I use to test microwaves all the time in the hospital for leakage, power consumption, output. I honestly think they are killing our wonderful women. And blasting men to death! There failure rates in a hospital or horrible. I yelp and scream at my wife not to stand in front of ours. and I replace it every two years and would prefer it not be here at all. I think they are more deadly than drunk drivers and cig smoke combined. Just look at the massive amounts of ovarian, utterin, stomach and digestive tract cancer that is now running rampit in the female population. Not to mention breast cancer. Prostate and gut cancers in men. Along with more and more case's of male breast cancer. At any given time I always have a friend, relative, co-worker or cust. fighting some kind of cancer. ALWAYS! Cancer has become a daily grind. be them smokers drinkers and fat lazy bastards like myself. Or healthy won't stand within a 100' of a smoker,,, never drank, eat right and work out. I see the cancer battle every day. What is causing this massive cancer war?

Yeah know. I had one great grandmother live to be in her late 90's. She smoke 2 packs of Pal-Mal a day and loved her shots of whisky, greasy food and wore red when she was a young women and partied her ass off. The other also lived to her late 90's and never saw a doc unless her son my grandfather heard she was feeling poor and then he would wreck the Christain Sci. Church she was being prayed over at and take her to a hospital. She had a few strokes. But got through very well considering she only went to a doc by hook or crook. This great grandmother believed in trying to stay healthy. Two old women, polar opposites. Lived a long time. All the women seem to live forever in my family. Us men we die. Be it a accident, work or pleasure related, cancer or heart attack. We DIE in our late 60's to early 70's. Doesn't matter if we are ubber healthy or smokers and drinkers, eat right or go to church two days a week. When we all get together we know the women will have to bury us. We work hard to make sure they have to money to go on.

I guess that mixed up rant comes down to know who and what you are. Stay away from microwaves. And make sure the women get the money.

Even in my current job. Im support service for tyhe local medical industry. The cust. that mean the most to me are the hospital maint. and engineering crews. While I spend a lot of time supporting things like the internet and huge db stuff that makes the world turn. And a lot of focus on living comfort, process and industry. My love is supporting the medical element. A hospital can't go down. They have the most advanced power plants in the world. You should see some of the eco things they are doing. Right now we are supplying pumps, steam traps valves, warranty's and such on the most advanced co-gen power house in the USA. Just a little pink hospital in Tulsa of all places. We already have pumps and support eq. for a company thats the backbone of the net in the center of the USA. There bandwidth makes most folks tv's work in the new age. Only about a 10th of there pipe is tapped. And they are a world leader in co-gen.

Folks have no idea how massive and intertwined things really are. No idea. And it cost big time....