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I've been getting more aggressive about FAS lately, and that brings up concerns about accelerated component wear from all of the engine killing and re-starting. On the mild end of the scale I'm thinking that my ignition switch is bound to fail sooner or later from all of the toggling. Fortunately I don't think that's a particularly big deal to replace.

More significantly, I'm worried about clutch wear since this is a non-trivial repair. It's either $800+ to have it done or $200 for parts plus figuring out how to drop the transaxle. (Maybe not as big a deal as I'm thinking?) My primary reason for concern is the fact that I prefer bump starting over using the gear reduction starter. My technique is what I understand to be the "right way", which is to draw out the clutch slowly with the trans in the highest gear that makes sense, then put the clutch back in the instant the engine catches, and finally rev-matching and putting it back in gear. After getting reasonably good at it, this seems like a much smoother way to go and gets the engine started faster. But if I'm doing this constantly, how terrible do you think this is? Part of me thinks this ought to be somewhat less wearing than a typical first-gear start, the other part is afraid I'll wear the friction material down to nothing in no time.

Thoughts?

Hi Tim:

___I will clutch start the Ranger maybe just 25% of the time vs. a much higher percentage of the time in the very recent past simply due to the fact the Accord w/ Auto is up around 12,000 starts on the smallish OEM - Civic sized battery, OEM gear reduction starter, and OEM alternator. After maybe 55,000 + miles, I am seeing nothing in terms of wear really felt/seen over that many miles other then a slightly reduced 12V cap (still is well within its V and CCA specs) over those miles. I am starting to believe a std. start while in N and rev match to re-engage with a warmed up ICE is the way to go given the 05 Accord’s bullet proof nature when doing so. I have a larger Optima Yellow Top in the garage waiting to replace the OEM 12V but having a much better feel as to when I am dragging the OEM 12V down using the SG-II’s Voltage readout, I can control that V cycling even more now. Overall, I think a warmed up ICE being started via key might not be so hard on her after all. The proof is in the Accord with a higher number of successive rapid fire start/restarts then Honda or anyone else could have possibly imagined when the car and/or HW was designed in the first place.

___I hope I did not just jinx myself but the Alternator is still putting out a steady 13.9 - 14.1 V into a 11.9 - 12.4 V (non-loaded, static, and stable) 12V battery when not under a continuous LS to MS P&G regiment then I could have possibly asked for. When you get into a hybrid and experience that silky smooth start up, you will know where the future lyes but for now, the Accord’s and Ranger’s gear reduction starter, 12V OEM Battery, and Alternator have worked fantastic in my own daily grind(s).

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Brick

I wouldnt worry about the clutch starts or the cranks.

What takes clutchs out is slippage and hard drops. The combo of such actions is leathal to a clutch. A hard launch with little wheel spin involves controled slip with a drop once moveing at higher than normal rpms. This takes out friction matrial at a alarming rate. You dont do this so no worry. Flat out wheel spinning hard launchs dont hurt the friction matrial much, but are hell on the springs tiens and other parts of the disc and pressure plate. Once those start failing then friction matrial wears faster because the parts arent mating right or ocilation developes and things then wear at a alarming rate. Again a style that you dont use. :)

The way we bump start our cars either at low or higher speeds isnt a big deal IMO. So called normal drivers with some wheel spin and holding theres cars on hills with the clutch or power shifting induce much more wear than you ever will.

I tend to launch hard here and there, whip the twistys at times and so on. So Im much harder on a clutch than you would ever be. I have no worrys oer the clutch at all.

Hi Psy:

___Darn if you don’t make me want that stick even more then I have in the past … Nice description.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Well, if I weren't willing to accept a certain amount of risk I wouldn't be doing this at all. Guess the best thing to do is FAS when I wanna FAS and see what happens :). Both takes on it make sense to me, and the opinions are much appreciated!

All told, if using the old school version of P&G and clutch-dropping/excessive starting can increase your mileage from 25mpg to 35mpg, then you'll save ~$3,300 every 100k miles. Which turns out to be a pretty big chunk over the life of a vehicle, probably well worth the small increase in wear on the clutch (if you drop it in fifth the engine's barely idling) and large increase in wear on the starter (pretty cheap).

the rules i try to follow is:

1. when cold, keep rpms under 1500.
2. when fasing, smooth as possible is key!
3. as for my 12 volt, it never takes a beating now, on cold engines i bump start and then using the key starter when the engine is already warmed up, reducing the amount of energy I need from the 12 volt. I managed to find a good PP spot at home and at work, I never thought I see the day I master bump starting in reverse ;)
4. E brake instead of braking when stopped at a red light, eats up .1 voltage more on the scangauge. I find on a really warmed up engine I can use as less as .4 volts just to start the car, holy smokes!!! Starters are strong beasts!!!

although the only thing I have concern is, if I fail a bump start (not giving enough momentum to the engine to spin it fast enough to induce spark ie: rpms rise to 400 rpms or so, then drops back to zero), and then I try to use the key starter, it will crank for so long until the engine comes alive although strugglining just to even get to idle rpms! My guess is the small motion of the engine from the bump wasn't enough to produce spark therfore flooding the engine with gas. When using the key starter (since speed dropped to zero and the light is green :O) it would crank its heart out and then finally the engine comes alive slowly! Your lucky it would go! Then just somehow burn the excess gas (engine on for 1 km or so) and then everything goes back to normal, crank no problems.

Sometimes I let the key go too fast, and then the cranking failed and the engine dies, then when trying to crank again I get the same symtom (lots of fuel no spark) and then I need to crank some more and then the 12 volt sounds like its almost out of juice ;P then the engine comes alive slowly!!!!!

and then off you go~

I was using the key exclusively to restart after engine off coasting. I've now switched to clutch starts and I don't feel it's any harder on the clutch than starting off in first gear. Restarts in 50-55mph bring the engine up to about 2000rpm in 5th gear. First gear starts often require similar revs to avoid stalling or bogging in my all wheel drive, low torque at low rpm vehicle. Using the key felt more unnatural and sometimes resulted in an odd delay before the engine would start cranking. It almost seems like the ECU knows I'm trying an abnormal start while moving and pauses before letting me go ahead.