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All - I have discovered what many of you have been saying, that the HCHII gets super great mileage if the EV battery is pretty full so that forced regen does not occur. (I have noticed the good hit in mileage during forced regen)

I have read that some of you use engine block heaters and other techniques to get the very most MPG.

How about a trickle charger in the garage that would top off the battery before every trip or the daily commute?

Does anyone have the charging specs on the NiMH battery pack? Is there a charger available?

I'm guessing there must be some test points that we could clip onto, where we could put a connector for the plug-in.

I would think that a trickle charger would be useful on the small 12 volt standard battery, if you plan to leave the HCH sit for several months. I am in Florida all winter and my HCHII stays up north. This would have little to no effect on mpg but might help the HCHII winter over with out the possible draining of the NiMH battery. Could be done with a solar panel or standard charger but would have to be auto on/off type to prevent overcharge.

Rick

...
I have read that some of you use engine block heaters and other techniques to get the very most MPG.


You bet. It does not take much to make a difference and depending on the number of little mods and tricks things can really add-up. A block heater is something I always use even in the hotter summer months.

Reducing power drains is yet another like for instance reducing the power consumption of the DRL lights by 3 quarters with LED based DRL bulbs.

Supplementing the power drain with the use of solar panel is yet another... and there are many others.

...
How about a trickle charger in the garage that would top off the battery before every trip or the daily commute?

Does anyone have the charging specs on the NiMH battery pack? Is there a charger available?


It is not that easy to put together a cooperative charger that will charge the OEM pack safely and effectively. Not only because of warranty concerns but also because the 158V pack is neither deep enough nor actively managed when the car is in an OFF state. This means that this charger would have to either be very intelligent and full featured or it would be closely coupled to the existing BCM.

Extending the OEM pack with another higher capacity unit is another story and that would make the HCH-II some sort of a plugin. However, from an engineering standpoint, it is not an exercise with good academic or effective benefit. It is doable and it would be somewhat effective, but some would see it as a waste and they would not be wrong in thinking so.

As far as I know there is no such charger... and if anyone ever produced one then it would have to be very well integrated with the BCM and governed at the cell module level in hopes of offering the necessary protection when the car if both ON or OFF.

Rick is right regarding trickle charging of the 12V subsystem. That is the most effective low hanging fruit. ;)


Cheers;

MSantos

MSantos

"Rick is right".... thanks but I learned it from you over at Greenhybird. We miss your knowledge. Glad you are here.

Rick

PS where do I get the low power led day light running bulbs and how do I instal them?

I am also interested in the LED DRL lamps

Hi Rick and hunter:

You may wish to read this first:

http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6282

I am actually using these now and I've gotten a set for my wife's HCH-II as well.

Cheers;

MSantos

Msantos - arent the DRL's just a lower voltage applied to the high beams?

If this is the case, wouldn't I lose the High beams if I put LED's in there?

When I look up Bulbs for the HCHII, I only see High and Low beams for sale. I don't see DRL bulbs..

Hi Hunter;

I believe you are right. You would kind of lose the high beams because the LED based 9005 bulb still cannot match the lumen power of the halogen bulbs when the high beam is ON. However, when you switch to "high beams" the LED bulb will also be much, much brighter too.

I don't use my high beams at all so I guess I did not put much emphasys on the high beam use (I drive 100% city)... but I am about to test the new gen DRL LED 9005 bulbs and I will then likely infer on that attribute when I post the review. ;)

Cheers;

MSantos

Thanks, I would be interested in what you find with the new gen 9005.

I was recently driving in the country (Berlin OH amish country) and the High beams came in really handy. This is an infrequent thing so in theory I could just swap the bulbs before traveling in the country. (If I get the LED's).

I guess I have the option to disable the DRL's with the fuse also. I would love to conserve 100 Watts

I have been testing NiMH batteries used in Honda Insights and Civics... there were some changes made to the civic battery system I think the biggest one was introduced in 2006....

a trickle charge is possible... and a grid top off is also possible...

While I have been testing the batteries... My own experience is with the Insight's control and interface system so I do not know the civic system detail well enough to advise you on integration into the vehicle....

Many factors should be considered and any such modifications can kill you or the car or both if not done properly.... plus it is very likely to void the warranty.

If you want to do it 100% correctly... it gets way to complex... there are some simple / less than 100% correct methods... that will work.. but most involve charging the batteries fully instead of avoiding the top end that Honda does during use... fully charging at the very least shortens the life span of the batteries compared to the limited usage Honda does... if done wrong you kill the batteries.... NiMH are very durable to misuse... but they still have there limits and can only take so much.

I think the full charge issue is not a big issue. If you know the battery spec, you just set up a charger that will go just below the max charge voltage. It may take longer, but it will charge the battery.

OR, you can get a smart charger that applies a charging voltage and periodically removes it to take a measurement. You can then program it to stop when it reaches just below full.

Do they charge cells individually, or do they charge the entire pack with one large voltage?

... or do they charge the entire pack with one large voltage?

Correct.

The individual cells are strung in a series circuit and charged "at once" in that manner... but despite this, the battery pack is "monitored and managed" at the pack's module level.

Cheers;

MSantos

Ok, here is a crazy question/idea. Is it possible that I can parallel a large 12v NiMH or Li-poly battery to the 12V (lead acid) HCHII battery to prevent the IMA inverter from charging/running the 12V devices (AC, Electronics, DRL's, Fans) for some period of time? I would charge this battery prior to my commute.

The idea is to keep the IMA battery for Assist-only purposes and drain slower.

I believe it would increase mileage to some extent, especially if to prevent the forced regens.

NEVER charge a Li-Poly battery with a lead acid or any other type of charger. Use only a charger designed for these batteries or you may have the largest unquenchable fire you have ever seen. You basically cannot put out a lithium fire.

Well I was thinking more along the lines of using the NiMH/Li battery to power an inverter to charge the 12V.

This battery would never be directly connected to any charging system except at home on an approved charger.

Hi Hunter;

That is not too bad of an idea and it has "some" merit.

However, the usable net energy in such a setup is still held hostage by a few conversion losses and inefficiencies (inverters are VERY lossy devices) and it is unlikely many would be able to get a extender battery pack cheaply and large enough to handle the power signatures of all the non-IMA devices on the HCH-II. :(

Perhaps the largest gains are achievable through other "more affordable" means. For instance, switching to as much LED lighting as possible, keeping your 12V topped off and healthy with a solar panel kit or another "greener" eletrical source, etc would be regarded as lower hanging fruit.

Cheers;

MSantos

Msantos,

I will definitely look for low hanging fruit. Are all the HCHII lamps Incandescent, and are there replacements for all (other than headlights)?

There are -already- large conversion losses for the DC-DC in the IMA because of the large v differential: 158V -> ~12V inverter, and these are probably much greater than the conversion losses of an 24V to ~12V charge controller because the voltages are closer.

Some charge controllers are now 95+% efficient

I'm guessing a solar charge controller can be used, since their outputs are designed to maintain/charge a 12V lead/acid battery. Instead of feeding a solar PV voltage in the input, I would put a 24V (plug in) battery on the input.

I found something interesting on the site below. People that removed their alternators (non hybrid ICE cars) gained 10-11% fuel economy, especially on highway:

http://metrompg.com/posts/alternator-optional.htm

I'm guessing it all comes down to cost. If I could get a battery and charge controller that would pay for itself in 1-2 years, it might be worth it.

Considering I drive around 15k miles/yr, It may be possible. I still have a few things to research and answer before I know if this is do-able.

-hunter

...Are all the HCHII lamps Incandescent, and are there replacements for all (other than headlights)?...

Yes, there are replacements for most of the HCH-II bulbs. Blinkers and night driving headlights are off limits for me as it would compromise safety(headlights) and efficiency (blinkers). Only the high mounted stop light is LED based. All others have OEM incandescent bulbs.

You can see here for a possible optimization with regard to the DRL bulbs:
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6282

You can also add LED bulbs to:
- dome and map lights
- corner marker lights
- license plate
- trunk lights
- rear "red" stop lights

To keep you 12V battery topped off you can start with a small (and inexpensive- no charge controller needed) solar panel kit such as this one:
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10872


Cheers;

MSantos

where would one pickup these LED bulb kits, are they drop-in parts?

superbrightleds.com. I was just looking there this morning.

Thank you, I'll have a look

Yes, there are replacements for most of the HCH-II bulbs. Blinkers and night driving headlights are off limits for me as it would compromise safety(headlights) and efficiency (blinkers). Only the high mounted stop light is LED based. All others have OEM incandescent bulbs.

You can see here for a possible optimization with regard to the DRL bulbs:
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6282

You can also add LED bulbs to:
- dome and map lights
- corner marker lights
- license plate
- trunk lights
- rear "red" stop lights

To keep you 12V battery topped off you can start with a small (and inexpensive- no charge controller needed) solar panel kit such as this one:
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10872


Cheers;

MSantos

I went to superbrightleds today, and I have a few ??.
What size bulbs would you use for HCH II brakelights?
Will the issue of false warning lights due to a low current draw appear with LED taillights as well?

Has anyone tried the LED drls as high beams? How well do they work?