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Let me introduce myself. I am dangerous, I push the limit. I am politically incorrect.. I'm strange...way too many hours in the basement of the science building. 43 years as a ham radio operator... you know those guys are really strange, stay away from them. They duct tape their shoes, drive clunkers and are the tightest people in the universe. A ham shot up a post office once and another invented microwave hamburgers goofing off at a military radar site. After all they all claim to talk to outer space and can prove it. I can boast to the unbelievable...I worked in the pentagon, beneath the pentagon, worked at NASA, been from the end of the Aleutian chain to Florida, and Maine to California. I don't trust the government, I don't trust you, or any of MY family. My closest relative is over 1000 miles away on purpose, my purpose. I've worked on things I still can't talk about. I've been a field engineer (electronics, computers) for over 35 years and travel, my 2003 tracker just turned 100K this week. I bought it new.

Now that you got past that BS... I don't need direction, reply's or at-a-boys. I may make 30 posts or none more. This is the first post.

START-
2003 bought new Chevrolet Tracker 4cyl. 5-speed 4x4 in New England. NOTE: I do not know how to drive an Automatic... I only own sticks. A slush box can vary mileage.
I needed a vehicle that would get me to and from clients "no matter what". They don't want excuses, they don't tolerate them, nor do I. In a nutshell I am hired to solve problems, not give lip service. I drive cars till they die or are killed. None have made it over 200k- close, and should of.. I buy new and drive till insurance companies declare them totaled, so far -all in not my fault accidents.

This vehicle can be push started. The tracker is reliable, economical and fits into Boston parking Garages (6'6" clearances). Both Trackers I bought new (1995 & 2003) NEVER went back to the dealer under warranty. Chevrolet dropped them for these reasons. Suzuki inside- Assembled in Canada (Great white north), by lumberjacks and not many were sold. Margins were small, and no warranty work, the dealers were not making money. So they were steering customers to Surburbans where the salesman made more money and the warranty department flourished. It's all about the $$$$, as usual.

Out of the box- I consistently got 29 mpg. Drove it 2-3 years up and down the East Coast..Maine to Virginia.., Ice snow, mountains. Never got it stuck, never flipped it, It would drive on days we got 36 inches of snow. I would pass 4x4 Ford explorers on their roofs and semi's in the ditch.
2006- Transfered- Drove it 1764mi from Boston through a February blizzard, the back filled to the brim with gear and trailering a 900# sidecar motorcycle to Wichita, KS. That trip was 17mpg.

After that- MPG was 25mpg...I tinkered and at my wits end, finally I took it to the largest Wichita Chevy dealer. It cost $107 to be told there was nothing wrong. It was immediately apparent, no scan codes means nothing wrong. What idiots. The service manager actually recommend trading it in "if you're not happy with it" Odo was about 60-70K at the time. The dealer's mechanic was a kid, and factually admitted "... don't see many trackers" -translated to competent speak that means "We never work on these, I could give a $h!t, when is lunch? when is payday?" My demands got me a compression check, catalytic converter check and they did spend 3 hours after, I quizzed them with printouts from GM regarding service bulletins they knew nothing of.. You can't loose a fight, when you use their documentation.

Live with it... I was bound and determined to return the mpg to 29. Moving from NH to KS doesn't cause your gas mileage to drop from 29 to 25 with no check engine light.. Well it did and does... only thing is the GOVERNMENT and the DEALERS (Gas and car) want you in the dark.

What did I find? What's this to do with Scanguage II? Well, in due time..

I'll cut to the chase, as documented on the internet, my research found- The Government changed the "EPA mileage highway" on the 2003 Tracker to 23mpg... The sticker when I bought the car states 27 highway. I was getting 29 why did the EPA change it?

Well they are dicking with the gasoline... 2003-2006 gas was $$$ less..1998 to 2005 in New England I was paying $0.88 to $1.25 a gallon. About that time the EPA started selling "oxygenated gas in the winter" within 50 miles of metro centers- like Boston. I was just living outside, in NH and everyone knew gas was cheeper outside of Boston. The change was to "clean the air" Boston is so dirty, versus Detroit or Cleveland or Pittsburg.. NOT!!! What maroons...these tree huggers are out of control.

Moving to Kansas I found "oxygenated" gas... Kansas is corn fields and oxygenated gas... 10% ethenol. Hence the gas mileage drop.. we're getting SCREWED even further...
since the cars were NOT designed to determine fuel blend...the manufacturers built them to EPA standards at the time. They locked down the computer code and the EPA is screwing with gas blends after the fact...America is no longer a government of the people.

I proved it by driving back east and boom my mileage returned to 29mpg for the time I was back east; then dropped when I returned to Kansas and the land of corn fields... only a few gas stations here state 10% ethenol, and QT stations guarantee gasoline 100%- whatever that means. Last Christmas went back East, my mileage returned to 29mpg a second time then dropped when I got to Kansas again. Proving it IS gas blends.

So now I know if I get 100% gasoline I get 29mpg, 10% ethanol it drops. Now it gets interesting... at KU- the University of Kansas in Lawrence there is a gas station. Gas- E85 and blends in between.. Plus biodiesel...Latest technology, a Couple of college professors involved... you get to pick your "shade of green" Kansas is a RED state few liberal pinko commies here, mostly the Governor and government workers.

Well I stopped in June and bought a 30% ethanol blend... and I found out I get 24mpg..
Well, if 100% gasoline gets me 29mpg, 10% ethanol gets me 25mpg and 30% gets me 24mpg... what did I get 4-5 tanks ago when I got 23mpg???... I drive Wichita to Kansas City Missouri (200mi) 2-3 times a month. Same route, same car, same speeds, same cruise control.

CONCLUSIONS-

Yes-- we are getting F***-ed. Not only by the Governemnt- EPA changing the blends, but also by the gas stations..

I will verify it my next trip to KC as I'm going to fill up with E85. It cost's less...but let's face it... these gas stations are trying to make it. They must be ordering and blending E85 then selling it as regular. If just to recover the loss of one drive off and survive. Why else is my gas mileage varying via fill-up at various stations, now knowing blends effect my mileage. Am I the victim of unscrupulous dealers? Asked and Answered.

Remember when a Buffalo, NY gas station near the Love canal was mixing solvent with Gas. The trucker was getting paid to haul off the solvent and dispose of it. The gas station was buying it. A back room deal. It was toxic and could not be dumped in the Love Canal.. They were near the Canadian boarder and the Canadians were shopping in the USA and filling up before going home. The give away was the Canadians figured it out when they could only go 55, in the US the limit was 55 then but 100 clicks in canada-(62mph US) USA driver were unaware their car couldn't go faster than 55 with the solvent blend. Plus exaust smelled funny. Of course, the trucker and gas station got it, but what about all the people screwed? The consumer is left holding the bag and paying for it.

Here we SUMMARIZE...
2003 Chevy Tracker, 4 door, 4x4, 5-speed, 4 cyl. This week 100K mi. Bought new.
100% gasoline (when gas was $.88 to $2.00) --29mpg
Sticker EPA highway mileage --27mpg
New EPA internet highway mileage --23mpg
Kansas 10% ethanol gas ($2.50- $4.25) --25mpg
Kansas 30% ethanol gas ($3.68 in 6/2008) --24mpg
What was the "blend" 5-4 tanks ago? --23mpg
First tank with scanguage II* --25mpg
another tank with Scanguage II* --25.86mpg
Last tank with Scanguage II* --28+mpg

*note- Have had the scanguage II for 2 weeks. Filled at the same station, I can go KCMO round trip on a tank, each trip was Wichita to KCMO, same route, same cruise.. The tracker turned 100k this week. BTW- the factory Uniroyals went 93K when I put them on the single mothers Pontiac next door for "around town" tires. Now BF Goodrich @36psi.

LAST TANK... I did DO something to "increase" my mileage...Stay Tuned...
Since the purchase of the scangauge II.. 2 changes total were made since the scanguage II. Actually 3 & 4. but 3 & 4 were backed out almost immediately, but are interesting.

The scan gauge was purchased so that I could get a better understanding of the engine and not base any conclusions simply on fill up mpg calculations. I also have a 5 year old Garmin IIplus GPS to verify, speed distance and altitude. The above mileage calculations are calculated off the odometer and gas pump not the scan guage.

Stay Tuned, same time and same channel.
The next episode will explore where I am going now that I am dangerous.. Plus we will divulge probably both of the things we did that did increase mileage these past 2 weeks.

This concludes the "baseline" we are working from.

OK here is a tidbit........4-5 tanks ago... oil change... Mobile 1 Green-0-30W. "Improves mileage". About $20 a gallon... NA-DA... Nothing, no improvement...All hype..
I have been using Mobile1 for over 20 years. It first was advertised as "the once a year oil change" and claim was it would go 25,000 between oil changes, as it never breaks down...

All those years using it.. I have found no oil leaks if I started the car on a diet of mobile 1 starting with the first oil change.. I do however because of research -airplane engines oil threads state part synthetic is best. I will throw in regular oil May to September, then synthetic oil over the winter. I'm too old to change oil in a gravel drive in the winter snow.

I always change my own oil...I saw sand filters and a pumping system at a quickie lube in new england once. When I asked they said" oh- the pump is to pump it into the waste truck. So I asked, "then why the sand filter??"... they quit talking, I left when they said they were all out of oil in cans. The claim of bulk oil translates in competence speak to "God only knows is it -name the brand- or recycled oil?" A decal on a 250 gallon refillable tank does not prove what's inside.

Well, am_fm, welcome to CleanMPG. And, I gotta say, I agree with you wholeheartedly on many of your points (not trusting gov't, getting screwed by fuel blends, changing my own oil so i know what's actually going in there and i'm pretty un-pc myself). You seem to have a grasp on your vehicle's capabilities, and that's a good thing.
Thanks for being real. I look forward to more of your posts.

Just a point, but I don't think the EPA has anything to do with setting the gas blends.

I probably wouldn't fill a full tank of E85. You will likely get a SES light and the engine could run lean. If you want to increase the percentage I would do it slowly on each tank. Watch the long term fuel trim. When it maxes out then that is as far as you can go without problems. Basically the ECU has run out of adjustment on fuel trim and will trigger that something is wrong.

I think on the scanguage is is "LTF".

The quick reply thing.... ala X-files and per area 51 rules and regs... Please feel free to interchange them, the "Government" and EPA. Also throw in the MIB, CIA, KGB, ICE, INS and probably everybody but the Boy Scouts...however don't trust a Boy Scout LEADER..

Having said that... unscrupulous gas station "owners" "agents" or whatever are obviously mixing gasoline with ethanol in greater than 10% mixes...

As a matter of fact, I ran yet another 400mile r/t to KCMO- Kansas City Mo. today.

I need to report this but ponder further.. left home at 5am and Input Air (IA) was 76 degrees, so I ran up to KCMO with the Air conditioning off. The last 4-5 tanks were run in up to 101 degree weather.

I was contemplating making a bi-zillion dollars selling a air conditioner cycler... as playing with my trackers air conditioners button when temp was 99-101 I found that I could run 30 seconds to 1 minute on and 1 to 2 minutes off but feel cool air coming out of the vents. The purpose was to mimic the Chevy AD wanting you to buy the new gas guzzler with "economy" air setting... After all when you "chill" the air conditioner exchanger coils in the air box, you have to blow air across it to bring it back to ambiant temperature even if you turn it off. So my experiment was to run one leg without air and one with air and see if total air on- versus total air off made much MPG difference. Then cycling the compressor , I can design a flip-flop 40-60 50-50 60-40 air on and off and make it flip 30 sec to 2 minutes... I'd be able to see if I got an improvement ....
BTW- this stuff comes to me because my moniker is am_fm_radio...I keep that off. and think... try it sometime...a trip with no radio...

Well, the trip up to KCMO with air off... it looks like I saved 1/10 of a mpg over last week when the temp was 99-101 and air was on 100%..

BTW- by cycling the compressor I thought would be viable to maintain the "cool" because the air conditioner temperature adjustment is to add heat...radiator heat. to adjust the temperature.. Cold is cold..you can regulate cold temp by, cycling on off, or adding heat...

Since my 2.0L 4cyl. tracker is no 396cu- you would think I'd see more than a 1/10 of a mpg difference. But that's a tailgate up-down.....am I going build my air flip-flop???..(sounds like something Nike would sell teenage girls for $20 a pair...) that is-
my air flip-flop controller... if at a 50-50 cycle I 'd save 1/2 of 1/10 mpg or 1/20 of a mpg... ...do the math $4.00 a gallon @20mpg... then 1 mpg is 20 cents, then 1/10mpg is 2 cents and 1/2 time is 1 cent...So a gas guzzling car that gets 20mpg would save 1 penny per gallon with my 50-50 air cycler.. so when you do the math...and follow the $$$$
it's not worth cycling the air conditioner...
That's why GM is selling it... because they can get the tree huggers to pay them $50 for the option...a 30 sec.-2 min. flip flop would cost GM $1 to build in mass...that's building many; not building in Mass... they're known as Mass-Holes in surrounding states for a reason. .. I've been there.

So----running without air in my 2003 chevy tracker saved me 1/10 of a mpg savings..
when it's 7am and 78 degrees that's fine but when 4pm and 99... I'll say to hell with AL GORE's temperature wacko theories. UNDENIABLE PROOF....changing the subject because only I can do it...but we'll return...
Temperature records have been kept for centuries... Right... centuries ago thermometers were hand blown glass filled with mercury and hand calibrated... The standards were to pack in ice and when it stopped it was 32 (is a bucket of ice really exactly32 degrees?) and boiling water was 212 (or factually more)... then they divided the distance and made marks...see where we are going???
So fine... well microscopically if the inside diameter of the tube changed, the mercury expanding linearly would not increase an equal distance as the inside walls fluctuated...

Bull droppings you say??? Antique thermometers are not accurate then or today ...and most importantly........ a FACT NEVER MENTIONED...
National Bureau of Standards, only created 50-60 years ago to provide a traceable standard of comparison for accuracy...time, distance etc...today you can buy a thermometers with accuracy traceable to the standards then make accurate measurements around the world You couldn't do that 100-200-300-400 years ago. So to say temperatures were 3 degrees lower or higher in the late 1600's is total Bull $h!t..

But the educated morons still worship Al Gore and I defy them to debunk that story.

Back to the tracker... Back to the scan gauge II..nack to air conditioner cycling ....

Todays R/T to KCMO started as a "duplicate" trip.. cool temperatures in the AM allowed me to experiment air off... I discovered the cost of cycling air on and off is a waste of money.because 1/10 of a mpg at 25 mpg is a penny more or less...recovery of a $20 flip-flop timer would be 2000 miles. It will be winter then...and we kind of cycle air then... instead of a minute on and a minute off we do a season on and a season off. So what do we save in a year??? GM is selling you some sort of intant savings ..no savings over a year. Like the scan gauge MPG when you see it on a Utube HHO project is the 58.8mpg... foot off the gas going down hill???? The SCAN GAUGE II MPG gauge calculates it for the time since last update you can set it for about 1-3 seconds...

But good news ...and a reason to tune in yet again....I found and installed a "FRAM AIR HOG" rechargable low restriction air filter. Frams answer to K&N I bought it a while back when a auto parts store left wichita...pepboys.. and sold off the store... not enough liberals and you can't fool these cow boys here. They fix cars with bailing wire, jump start them too...seen it done.

So I took it with me ...but I only perform 1 mod at a time...no air up to KCMO... and the new air filter on the return trip home... Sorry I didn't gas up... since crude is down again that means pump prices will drop in the AM.. So fillup is tomorrow AM...
However I believe my MAP numbers changed on the way home with the new filter, and it seemed to be smoother..run better... Yes a warm and fuzzy feeling...to be tainted or reinforced in the AM when MPG is calculated. ...but i want the glow of the new fancy $$$ air filter to last for the night...The Scangauge II mpg numbers looked better as well. But when calculating mileage it's the click of the pump gallons divided into the trip odometer period. The scan guage can be adjusted or off set.

BTW with cruise on and flat terrain.... my Garmin GPS 2plus said speedo at 55 was 55.1 but speedo at 80 was 77.7.
my odometer clicks past 20 mile posts on I35 and reports 20.2+. Experimenting with that last week, I'd call it 20 mile posts equals 20.25 on the odometer. So I may play with my scanguageII to adjust...but I want to think about it more...

Frankly I'll stick with gallons readout from the pump with a state of Kansas seal certifying the measure and the electronic odometer of the tracker. I can't tamper with either..moving on....

Now the air off or the AIR HOG rechargeable air filter are not the 2 things I've done to improve mileage I mentioned in my first post....Well talk about them on a day I have nothing to say...

Tune in next time... but before you do.. My gal pal blew a tire... it happened to be her birthday, so I bought her a round thing with a hole in the middle ... infact 2.. Yes 2 235/60-16's for her Vue... at the loco tire shop...the good old boys there said they now carry nitrogen... fill the tires for $5 each.. Of course my answer was...and Dayton readers will agree.. Tire stores in Dayton Ohio give it for free if you buy tires there...
They were ah gasp...but it is true...beat any deal and get N2 in your tires...They claim 2-3 mpg improvement...The semi's been using it and I'll trust a good old boy, God fearing, grit eating, gun toting trucker over Obama... hey OBAMA?!?!? (don't let me go there) oh- that's at highway speeds... well, should I spend $20 since I'm R/T ing to KCMO 1-2 times per week on business???? The tracker is light weight and has big baloney's for a 4-banger econo 4x4 want to be.

Well, before you write in to this station, let's do the math... how many 2mpg savings do we need when gas in Wichita is $3.49 to break even with the $20 bill the loco tire boys are trying to suck out of my deep pockets...

Stay tuned, I'm too tired to type or do math in my head... you see I lost my slide rule about 1978...

Humm.....

On the 100K+mi 2003 Chevy Tracker 4x4 4cyl, 5 speed. 4 door.
Monday we learned corroded battery posts will cause it not to start and the scan gauge to fluctuate VOLTS wildly 11-16 V at 55 cruise on.
today we learned air conditioning off saves 1/10 mpg or about $0.02 per gallon...
tomorrow we're going to learn if the FRAM AIR HOG filter got us any mpg improvement and if the math makes N2 in the tires worth it..

Why Fram Air hog? It was on the shelf and severely discounted as was the rest of the store going out of business. K&N is a special order for the Tracker and WAL*MART does not even stock any air filter for a Chevy tracker... rice burners you can get...

So tune in again boys and girls...
DISCLAIMER- anything tried on my 2003 Chevy Tracker may not work on your rust bucket and visa versa...So I don't want to hear about it..

When I took Ford Motors my 100mpg carburetor they told me, "come back when you're doing 150+mpg but here's a couple of oil change coupons for your trouble good at any dealer and sign this non-disclosure form." Then they'll tell you some kid from Roswell, NM in 1947 had a carb that did 110 mpg.. on a '38 Ford flathead V8, burned water and the exaust dripped 180 proof Scotch..Ford traded the kid for a new Mercury convertible with a push button radio then sold it to Ted Kennedy..Enough said..

See you later...stay tuned...

One note... temperatures from centuries ago are not recorded from notes taken by people at the time.

I see a 16% drop in FE when using the various blends of corn meth (E10 and E10 RFG). From 58 to 50 MPG.

The link is in my sig.

One note... temperatures from centuries ago are not recorded from notes taken by people at the time.

Ah-- Well, there's always one that shouts out... --- recorded from notes, I didn't say notes, I said thermometers... Before thermometers.. well, DUH I'm talking thermometers... Mans first temperature measuring device.... anything prior was waving your dick in the wind and guessing or the "new wave" Al gore scientific... "proxy measurements" - junk science claiming to be accurate. I feel like the old rooster in the cartoons talking to the young cock.

Let me restate in simplest terms "earlier temperature measurements taken by thermometer were inaccurate". or any 2 or more separate measurements not traceable to the national or international standard are inaccurate. That's why standards were created, only recently and only to the scientific accuracy to today.

To put in perspective, a measurement of the circumference of the earth to the inch... Accuracy would have to be greater than 1 inch over 25,000 miles (approx.) or 1 over (25000*5280(ft/mi)*12(in/ft)) or accuracy exceeding 6.313131e-10 using pi to the tenth decimal (3.1415926535) only approximates it. Prior to 1938, slide rules were state of the art....3 significant digits max. So you can't find the circumfrence of the earth measured to the inch..it is approximated albeit scientifically accurate. An 18th century thermometer can only be accurate to itself and during a short time period. Therefore impossible to make large empirical global measurements.

Stating any 1-3 percent global temperature change over centuries is impossible as and because its inaccurate by that amount or more.

Reference the year 1737....WHEN thermometers WERE in Use and debated EVEN then to their accuracy. I reference this article:

http://www.astro.uu.se/history/celsius_scale.html

in part it states" Of course also the freezing and boiling points of water were used, but it was not self-evident that they really were universal and e.g. independent of the geographic latitude." (and altitude-my addition) and goes on to cite examples of extensive scientific arguement over accuracy and method to standardize.

another reference:
http://www.cjhclocks.com/index.php?act=viewDoc&docId=14
states:The first thermometer was an air thermometer used by Avicenna in the early 11th century.
and....the impetus for improving thermometry came largely from study of the weather -

What?!?!? WEATHER?!?!? would that have anything to do with AL GORES "GLOBAL WARMING"???

So... to agree with you...before the 11th century it was impossible to use a thermometer,
about the only measurement scientifically accurate (to some repeatable degree) prior to the 11th century was "we got water, ice or steam" anything else you can't buy.

After the 11th century till some point recent they were inaccurate. At what point can you say "proxy measurements" ARE VERIFIABLE and QUANTITATIVELY ACCURATE???


I am writing about "instrumental temperature record shows the fluctuations of the temperature of the atmosphere and the oceans as measured by temperature sensors. Currently, the longest-running temperature record is the Central England temperature data series, that starts in 1659. The longest-running quasi-global record starts in 1850." -from wikipedia.org

and finally I cite-The NOAA states "The 1997 Conference on the World Climate Research Programme to the Third Conference of the Parties of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change concluded that the ability to monitor the global climate was inadequate and deteriorating." found at url location:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumental_temperature_record#Uncertainties_in_the_temperature_record

See why I recommended no replies... I answered this one to show that there are kooks out there with their unsubstantiated one liners that cannot comprehend the English I write. Yet claim mastery of the English language; usually only as opposed to no working knowledge of any other language. We won't even go into logic, or scientific deduction.

I predict- Watch me be attacked as to my scan gauge II referenced improvements to my 2003 Chevy tracker as noted in this thread as inaccurate. Well, they are. My posting are ONLY relevant to my scanguageII and my car... no one else is identical, as there are no scientifically traceable standards of measurement used. Why ...it isn't worth it.. Remember -Follow the $$$$$

That is why, in another post I stated I use the car's odometer divided gas pump measure in gallons. As both are "tamper proof" by law, regulated by state and feds and out of my hands. If tampered with, it is a crime. Whereas, the scanguageII MPG readout can be user modified no crime, just ego boost.

So watching scanguageII readouts on Utube or reading my calculations... consider the source..

I bought the scangaugeII for one purpose, to be able to detect changes in my engine with traveling a large amount of mileage divided by a tank of gas to determine any change.

I will refer to this in later postings...

back to grinding out paperwork..

Interesting and highly abrasive. I was pointing to the fact that temperature measurements are known in a relative way for many thousands of years before thermometers were created, and those temperatures were not recorded by anyone.

If there are no notes from those dates you were so happy to provide, I have to also ask, who cares if there were thermometers or not? Of course there were notes! If there were not, why would the question of accuracy come up at all?

If you are going to hand wave and discount a whole body of scientific knowledge based on careful study of sediments, ice, geologic formations, tree rings, and other such data then yes, there really isn't anything to discuss about global temperature trends. I'd have to also point out that you'll have to had wave away a whole lot of other knowledge acquired in a similar manner.

To be perfectly clear, I don't believe the data currently available for temperature trends in the last few centuries is sufficient to conclude either a global warming or cooling trend. This doesn't invalidate a reasonable concern about human impact on the environment, nor does it invalidate the longer term temperature fluxuations identified though history.

As for antique thermometers, a margin of error is reasonable. It could very well be that differences in thermometers were on the order of several degrees -- but that is why there are standards and multiple sources. Besides, I'm not that concerned about validity of a few degrees -- see my statements above.

More to the point, your attack of a simple statement was completely unwarranted and prompts the very relevant question of why you are here? This is a community open to discussion and based upon sharing -- a two way street. You have made a large number of assumptions and do not appear to be here for discussion at all -- if all you wish to do is publish your results perhaps a different venue that does not allow comments would be more your style?

RE: Ethanol blend...

I have knowingly run 10% to 30% Ethanol as advertised at the pump... it's what's not advertized I question... especially the fluctuation of mpg to as low as 20+ mpg to over 29mpg, simply by using cruise when ever possible, doing the speed limit or maybe a hair above. Traveling in Kansas a corn state and then simply refilling...and increasing my mpg from 20+mpg to 25+mpg because I filled up elsewhere.

It's not bumper to bumper, stop lights all the way when I travel Wichita, to KCMO or OKOK.. it's flat open Interstate 35...

Toss temperature... it's summer I drive 8-5pm...it's work.. Toss altitude.. All of Kansas varies about 1100 feet. these factors may not be the same every day but repeat over June July and August.

Same car...Same cruise control.. Same driver for cargo..windows closed air on (mostly) 90% of the time I fill local before proceeding out on a trip.

What differs...90 percent of the gas bought at the same station... but I have no control over repeated refillings from the same homogeneous tank. That is the variable..

The suckiest gas I got was from a "by the interstate" Shell gas station in Emporia, KS. I believe that was ethanol in excess of 30%. priced as real gasoline..

The best gas mileage from the afore mentioned 90% of my fillups local gas station...A Quick Pick... Local to Wichita (7-11 variant), owned by Dillions a local supermarket chain AKA KROGERS. they and a QT brand are biggest in Wichita.. There is no Mobile/Exxon to my knowledge.. all these cowboys drive old pickups and clunkers except for the pimps..

As I reported my 29.something MPG is always EAST of the Mississippi...Ohio- to New England...not here in the Corn state. I always fill-up in St. Louis heading east as IL and IN are high gas tax states.. I repeated my 29+mpg events during a move from Boston to Wichita and then returning this past Christmas for a visit.
Gas is Gas but it aint... QT advertises guaranteed gasoline, but what the hell does that mean?? their pumps say 10% ethanol some places..

My only conclusion is that those selling gas , somewhere up and down the supply chain, are screwing with us. the deviation of 20-29mpg and back and forth over and over does not match experiences of 10 years ago when gas mileage varied only when you hooked up the camper..Both real world conclusions.

I was raised by immigrant parents who settled in the coal mines went through the depression and WWII. We were saving gas, tracking mileage in the 50's. This is nothing new. I knew the gas mileage and tracked it in my first car, a 1957 chevy in 1967-68. I even found bought a 57 with a 265cu V8 and 3 speed stick to save gas instead of a 283 powerglide. The family teenager car was a 1962 chevyII 4cylinder powerglide. VW bugs could beat it off the line. but it got over 30mpg. I drove it, so did 4 sisters and a brother as it got handed down. In almost 10 years that gas mileage only varied maybe 1mpg the entire time... 6 drivers and my dad... BTW we lived in Detroit a mile from a Mobile refinery.


The only way to prove this gas ethanol fluctuation is to obtain a sample of gas at each pump at each fillup then have it analyzed each time and referenced to each mpg at the next fillup to correlate that fillup to that sample. Then have a second tank of reference gas to use before and after a period of tests to verify test results. That's quasi scientific study.

Car and Driver....any takers??

I would make some comments, but I haven't seen much to really warrant my time.

Interesting and highly abrasive.
and...
If you are going to hand wave and discount a whole body of scientific knowledge based on careful study of sediments, ice, geologic formations, tree rings, and other such data then yes, there really isn't anything to discuss about global temperature trends. I'd have to also point out that you'll have to had wave away a whole lot of other knowledge acquired in a similar manner.
?

YES exactly my point. Proxy Science.
good guesses but NOT FACT...

The only factual study would be standard traceable high accuracy measurements- scientifically repeatable and verifiable.

We can do that measuring a titanium bar to the .001 of an inch or even .000001 of an inch accuracy... Do it in France, do it in Chicago... do it for the next week and the next year... but we can't measure the exact distance to the moon in inches because it varies all the time....Apogee and Perigee. However great success measuring them with great accuracy... less than 1%. Accuracy, scientific accuracy is what I require, you believe what you want.

We do not know if Dinosaurs had feathers...Some say they did because dinosaurs evolved into birds. In common- birds and dinosaurs lay eggs, hence dinosaurs had feathers.. Well lizards lay eggs and lizards have scales. There is "proxy Science" that is contrary. Conclusions impossible. .... Personally I hope they had feathers, I like feathers better than scales. So is this an attempt to equalize the grade school dinosaur boy versus girl thing... girls like feathers over scales, boys who do not like girls like scales... yes- how juvenile.. But that's todays public school, soccer mom SUV driving daytime TV "feel Good" attitude..

Likewise I listened to a talk of an author who in her new book spoke of cannibalism in American Indians siting petrified scat ($h!t) was found at a "one time" Indian site. Then went on how it contained a protein only found in human muscle tissue by chemical analysis. Never spoken was how that petrified scat was determined to have come from a human and not a bear or something else. Was the evidence an event of domestic violence- wife getting back at hubby... or a preistoric rape gone bad?? Will someone report the same far in the future when a prositiute is dug up that was involved in a car accident - having her john been drunk and driving...(get the picture) What trace element-compound or protein proves this sample of scat could of only come from a human and nothing else?? I do not doubt she proved that scat had human protein in it... But did the scat come from humans AT THE TIME considered to be the time of the American Indians... just when is an American Indian an American Indican and not a cave man? Is petrified scat is found in a cave in what is now America ONLY that of some American Indian tribe? This author deemed cannibalism in ancient America par ar for the course
Ugg would you pass old UMPHs leg?? exception or rule... Let's assume that finding is valid.


Accuracy.... not an educated guess...

If you need a bolt for your car... I have a 1/2 inch x 13 tpi hex head bolt 3 and 1/2 inches long and hardness grade 8... I can measure it and supply you one today, next week with certain accuracy...over and over...
but will that bolt fit your car..your car may be metric my above may not fit your 8mm threads. So is my bolt wrong or your car?

Let's get accuracy and standards straight... fact versus concept...
Easter Bunny, my shoe size... an electron microscope and a galaxy...even a 1965 ford galaxy all have different standards. Proxy science, pure faith, and pure Brovo Sierra (BS).

I'm more likely to believe a measurement made by that electron microscope than proxy science of the distance across a galaxy to be scientifically provable. The electron microscope is traceable back to a standard using proven scientific data. Granted proxy science lends us to state perceived facts make things believable or in perspective....yet at the same time if chocolate eggs in a basked are found easter morning... That's what they said the Easter Bunny would bring. and those are reasonable people who told me of the event.

So by taking the last few thousands of years of proxy science and projecting forward past our lifespan of 100 years.. then projecting doom "chicken little sky falling doom" in the future can only be a slice of the same science... Because proxy science also states
the earth is millions of years old... Dinosaurs millions of years ago...

So where is the tree rings? Ice core samples?? from millions of years ago??

Then we would have a continuous thread from X million years ago to today...that 100% of proxy science...2000-3000-5000 even 10,000 years of proxy science is 10 centuries divided by just 1 million years is 1% slice of what is going on...start to today..so our proxy science is only about 1% of what really did happen... just the facts... we don't have tree rings back to the first tree or ice cores back to the first ice, if we go back and deeper with ice cores and hit dirt... that proves... when we hit dirt... there was global warming, no ice..
cause there was no ice when there was dirt.


Proxy science ice cores and such go back 10 centuries not sure exaclty...Jesus goes back 20 centuries...we know a lot about human life... Why no ice core before Whatever date, lets say 5000-10000 years if that ... It MELTED... GLOBAL WARMING and trust me, my first chevy didn't do it!!! even though I burned 28 cent premium because you got double green stamps.

I'm betting the pyramids go back further than ice cores and tree rings... but I have only proxy science to prove that.

Ice cores and tree rings point to trends that are interpreted. Proxy science fine lines into junk science....on who interpets..

Now given you've concluded that I'm so anti politically correct Al gore would have me burned at the stake and even pay the carbon credits himself for doing it..

Why am i trying to get max MPG out of the crap I"m stuck with trying to do my job...that contributes to society... I pay taxes, support myself and others without a trust fund. earn and spend money. BTW I applied scientific principles to the purchase of the Tracker... As opposed to my other options and made an informed decision. Other people come to differnet conclusing because not everyone drives or drives a Chevy Tracker...you noticed..and they buy cars based on color and price not scientific data.

Should I not quit my job, stop driving, go on the dole and get government hand outs... or live off the land and hunt with a spear in Wichita?? that's an viable option... after all no one starves in America.. You can get food 24 hours a day, with money, wits or a gun. I will be fed in prison. I can get to jail just by breaking a police car window with a rock. Rocks are free.. So is the meal in jail. I'm even guaranteed good treatment and medical care at no expense to me.

Sure I'm abrasive, I want to be abrasive, I'm not getting on the bus with the rest of the herd. I live in the real world and am real... ?I'm a binary thinker I understand right-wrong, up-down, Black-white, on-off and 1's and 0's... I don't invest in stocks, I invest in Beans and bullets. You just don't know how many guns are buried in sealed PVC pipe about America so I'm not alone.

If you put a board across a rock and push down on one end of the board, the other end goes up, the board is broken, or the rock is not stationary. THAT'S A FACT...

Today people don't even understand that... lap up the bull $h!t and buy carbon credits.. I've got plenty to sell.... you want to buy mine???... I have 10,000 carbon credits just because I didn't fly a Learjet by myself all last year. Instead I drove my 4banger Chevy and ...never to church on Sunday..saves even more every carbon credit counts...

Time to check the mpg to see if the scan guage did detect a better performace of the Air Hog air filter installation... did more air flow air hog filter get me more mpg or less MPG can we equate more mpg to less carbon?... something to ponder...

The new hypothetical does increasing MPG decrease the carbon foot print???
inquiring minds would like to know...and I don't know the answer... let's discover the answer and quantify it scientifically...

The tree huggers pinko wacko's scare tactic would be.. until carbon footprint is ZERO increasing MPG only damages the earth in a nuclear reaction style --once started you can't stop it... You know Mr. Science throwing a ping pong ball into a table fill of mouse traps with ping pong balls loaded on each mouse trap..but we all know we run out of mousetraps and ping pong balls but it was really cool watching..


Let the blog begin....flamers step up first..

BTW- in ham radio you carry on conversations all the time with people you never meet far away, and you can't see them, but you enjoy their company, ideas and replies. only thing you have yo prove you're competent to use a radio.. here no requirements. scary isn't it...

Boy are adept at moving the target around. While you have spent an enormous number of words talking around the questions I asked, I'm still left with no real answers.

While you are busy trying to justify yourself and asking for flamers, you've dismissed half of what scientists have been working to determine about our environment, completely missed that standards represent reproducibility and therefore calibration potential, lumped me in with "tree huggers" (thanks but no thanks), and conveniently ignored that the oft stated goal of this community is to help you achieve the best results possible from what you already own. Since you missed it, let me quote the text under the logo at the top left of every one of the pages on this site: "Learn to raise fuel economy and lower emissions in whatever you drive."

Nobody asked you to justify your choice of vehicle. Nobody asked you to justify your choice of the SG to do some objective testing of fuel quality. We all already understand that even with the SG is uncalibrated it is still good at showing you trends. Each and every one of us take our final results (the ones in our extensive mileage logs?) from pump gallons divided by odometer miles. This is nothing new to the members here. If you had bothered to read what is here you'd already know this.

As for your thinly veiled insult regarding requirements, you'll notice that we don't endorse any additives or gadgets -- just driving behavior and the SG for feedback. We have competent people here and the standard is proficiency and reproducibility behind the wheel producing measurable efficiency far exceeding what most achieve. We have numerous video verifications performed by national news services and long records of effort and results. This site has been around since 2006 and the focused pursuit of "hypermiling" has been around since 07/11/2001. If you choose to ignore or distrust the validity of what you'll find here, it is your loss. Ignoring the table in the dark doesn't make it disappear and it will cause quite as large a bruise in the dark as in the daylight if you run into it.

So now it is your turn. You may have Ham Radio experience and competency, but based on your replies you have no such expert experience with real fuel economy techniques. If you want to learn, hang around and leave the blustering about environmental focus (which I never mentioned -- and no an observation that not all temperature records come from thermometers isn't a treatise or argument for global warming) at home.

Well, here is the results of yet another fillup....
Lets look at what we reported last...
We've added what we tried in each line
First tank with scan gauge II* --25mpg Note 1
another tank with Scan gauge II* --25.86mpg NOTE 2
Last Fill up with Scan gauge II* --28+mpg Note 3
fill up Wichita to K.C. air off- 25.97 Note 4
Fill up return with Fram Air filter.. 25.57 Airhog rechargeable air filter.. Note 5
Note 1 Local gas station fillup... less than 1/2 fillup...
Note 2 kept vehicle under speed limit at a fixed 65 in a 70 zone.. plus tires @ 36psi
Note 3 actual mileage 28.16... Drafted and used acetone 6 oz. to the tank.
Note 4 no acetone added, load increased with about 100 lbs of equipment.
Note 5 wanted to get home, hot day, ran speed limit plus a hair- filled at a QT in Olathe KS.

So where am I??? Confused... In my quest of the last 2 months, I've gone to Mobile 1 0-30W green mileage improver oil, new champion platinum plugs, new pcv valve, new FRAM air hog hi flow filter and 36psi in the tires...plus I tried some acetone.

I've also seen mileage vary in a quirky way gassing at different stations..even experimented with E10 & E30... the mpg loss seemingly does not justify the slightly reduced price.

I have 3 options...
stay as where is for a tank or two to see if I can stablize my mpg...
I can blow $20 for N2 in the tires...
I can return to acetone to see if it was really a mileage increase or a tank of real gas.

Last 2 weeks were hot... 90 to a may of 101... Last weekends rain cooled things off to pleasant.

Way back I spoke of a second thing that was done with the 28.16 mpg tank.. Highest I've ever had west of the mississippi in the last 2 years.

My son was screwing with the scanguage... entering commands and he did 2 things... caused the car to "burp" when one command was entered, then it was different till the enging was shut down.

The second command he did I think was 0 0 0 or 0 0 3 0 cause the scan gauge to read out.. garbage for the m and G in MPG was displayed on the scangauge. A reset was tried and the command was repeated as it was in memory... the same thing happened twice.

Seems to me Like if you read about the Diablo Preditaor for the diesel trucks, they can change parameters through the OBDII port... It seems we should be able to "tweek" the engine likewise except that the magic is $450 plus a diesel truck.

Something changed with that command till the engine was turned off. He rewrote over it so who knows what number was entered.

I think I need to get stable... I'm dangerous, I want to play but I have not been able to get confident enough to be able to do this do that and be able to instanteously be able to see rewards or failure...
Let's average the all the tanks since figuring mpg from my PDA for about the last 4 months.....

Stats... 19 fill ups recorded in my PDA since May 13th. when I really decided to become proactive.
current EPA HIGHWAY MPG ala EPA internet site for my vehicle...23 MPG...
total average...........23.77 mpg
first half...................23.52 mpg first 9 fill ups ending July 16
second half ..............23.96 mpg last 10 fillups Starting July 18
since scangauge II ...24.38 mpg also last quarter...5 fill ups... scangauge on line Aug 7.
worst fill up ........20.23 mpg
best fill up ..........28.16 mpg

If you've studied statistics, smoothing... like with sunspots makes a graph that over a period of time really shows improvement if any. running averages.. I may start smoothing results based on the last 5 fillups...because if you look at all 19 fill ups one right after the other, they go up and down... if you look at first half versus last half there is slight improvement, then if you look at after scan gauge and continued improvements, I really have increased my mpg... 3.75 percent.

Time to re-read pro and con on acetone. A gallon is $15.... and i sure don't have any use for it if it's a dud... My gal pal supplied me 6oz of nail polish remover she had which is acetone... she is a beautician. So I killed her bottle as a try it one time. Jury is still out.

2 more options... for about the $15 gallon of Acetone.... N2 in the tires for $20... and playing with scan guage commands. I think there won't telly you the real secret because EPA doesn't want the back yard mechanic tuning the carb, setting the timing etc..

Yet know pickup and 4x4 owners are doing it and they are OBDII...

BTW- ALL MPG I report is calculated pump gallons divided by factory odometer. against the law to tamper with either... you can play with a scan gauge to fool it into a higher mpg display... So beware buying gizmos that increase MPG and they are showing a scangauge readout... water4gas.com comes to mind....

I figure till something changes in the real world, diesel-electric hybrid like europe wants, not gas-electric like is being pushed here, or a scudari engine gas-air hybrid.. fuel cells. nuclear energy... warp drive or anti-matter. I going to maximize what I have...
I can't buy a VW polo so screw new car dealers, you can sit on 1999 technology inventory till it rots..Good old government regulations are hindering us more than anything else.

I still think there is some magic in that scan guage undocumented commands that can be sent to the OBDII I also have a cam position sensor adjustment perhaps the only adjustment on my engine to play with..

I'm going to carefully plot my next move...next known highway trip is a 200 r/t on Sunday....

So the saga continues.....

Now I know why you don't listen to the radio... whew. ;^)

With a vehicle as aerodynamic as a Tracker I think you could easily see MPG variations of wide swings in KS. The air direction and speed changes all the time and it is almost always WINDY from some direction. Don't forget it is downhill from Wichita to KC. I've driven that area a few times and I had my best ever mileage in another car while going from Wichita to northern MO. I attributed it to the tailwind.

If you want to figure out how much ethanol is in your fuel, take a sample and add x amount of water, mix well, then separate off the "water" and measure how much more "water" you have. The water will attract and remove the ethanol.

Good luck.

Mr. Radio, I just have one question for you and hopefully I don't open a can of worms. What is the relevance of your posts?

Mr. Radio, I just have one question for you and hopefully I don't open a can of worms. What is the relevance of your posts?

I like worms! :)

Buy the Ethanol Test Kit (http://www.fuel-testers.com/product_gas_alcohol.html) and you'll know exactly how much ethanol is in the fuel with sufficient accuracy that you can report offenders. I quit testing since every one was E10 right on the dot though that's to be expected. Most truckers can read a meter and shift a decimal point.

Mr Radio, you write with the same hostility as Louis LaPoint (http://brightgreen.us/lubedev/smartgas/). Either you'll find a friend or you'll find out why why that kind of writing is to be avoided.

Getting good mileage from E10 depends heavily on a good additive pack. Shop around until you find the best.

Mr. Radio, I just have one question for you and hopefully I don't open a can of worms. What is the relevance of your posts?

First, Please call me am_fm. There is some if very little relevence to my posts. My thread on the internet is so obscure, I doubt if it's even searchable. I kind of tossed out a problem I seemingly have in that measurements become Brovo Sierra (BS), unless standards are met along with traceability to those standards. We seem to be quite accepting of proxy science for instance. Universally, (Well, on this planet) thermometers are accepted as the temperature measuring device that have been standardized, and some, not all, traceable to that standard. Electronic, mercury, whatever...temperature measuring device.. Yet here we go.... proxy science -junk science all of a sudden by observing tree rings it becomes gospel, that for instance the earths' temperature has risen. Many times a fraction of a degree over span of time in a period of long ago. Proof beyond a reasonable doubt. NOT. Proxy science at best.

Like the method in this thread to measure ethanol in gas. Reasonable but with my household items, and a fuel sample of lets say 1/2 gallon or less, I'd be inaccurate. Would you trust my ability to determine Ethanol to +/-1%? I am not a chemist, I only took minimal classes required in electrical engineering (40+ years ago too!)

Fast forward... the past 6 months.. and the crisis of "automotive fuel". One ponders supply and demand.... recalling the 70's where gas stations did not have gas or gas was limited for instance to 10 gallons if your license plate was odd or even given the date. Seems that was a supply and demand problem and in this supply and demand times, I can get all the gas I want, 10 gallons 100 gallons or 1000 gallons supply and demand is not the issue...only price is. So we both understand gas crisis of the 1970's and gas crisis of 2008 ....the media is assigning "supply and demand" is the cause, reason purpose, or explanation.
Yet they differ because in 1970's at the peak you could NOT buy 100 gallons. You were refused as an off the street consumer. Aug 15, 2008... I can Buy 100 gallons, even 1000 gallons...no supply problem, no demand problem... $4000 gets me 1000 gallons.. I even think I can get delivery..fill the swimming pool. I can even charge it on my VISA..

So my point and the relevance... is that the term de jure "Supply and Demand" or "Gas Crisis" is mearly a warm and fuzzy way this scenario is being portrayed to the herd- the great unwashed, the American public.

Could it be we have an unthinking public that when adding things up just don't get it? I can apply this to "Global warming" etc... proxy science- junk science- theories, conjecture, politically correct thinking. You think because you question me. I get more out of this than sitting in front of the boob tube. We're in dialog, we'll get agreement, other opinions and who knows how many lurkers are out there. Perhaps the best position to be in.

And most improtantly-- the reason you question my thinking and conclusions. Neither of us for instance would question, "Global warming is caused by evil clowns" We would immediatly dismiss it.

Now lets apply this to "Got Scangauge II & I am dangerous- Gas Truth"

Not necessarily in that order... I am a thinker, I question things and draw my own conclusions, I am not afraid to speak out regarding any number of things. Had my father stayed in Poland I'm sure the Nazi's would of hung me, shot me, gassed me like the rest of my family or at least I'd had spent time in a Siberian Gulag given my lifeline.

So I perceived a problem- my driving, a problem with my vehicle, how about the source of it's energy- GAS Truth- I suspect doping of gasoline somewhere in the supply chain with Ethanol in percentages greated than disclosed then selling it at retail. I would like too think you will agree my purchasing a Scanguage II will assist me in determining the problem then the solution. It may not be the only thing. I also reinstalled a 5-6 year old Garmin IIplus GPS.
After all if there was a a$$hole gauge.. perhaps you'd use it to measure me. But would you believe the findings? or someone else?

So -even with your help--- we will eventually get to the problem at hand..the goal..better economy, better understanding of coping with transportation costs/issues in America today. can we overcome issues some out of our immediate control.

To summerize my lengthy posts and deviation from the point. This next line contains the point and a deviation (relevance)
"Charley, How is the wife and kids? By the way you're fired!" even that is lengthy.
Now this -"How's the family? You're fired!"
totally relevant -"Your fired!" ---would I want to be totally relevant? Would you?

Do You listen to long sermons or does your priest/minister/rabbi, simply say, "God loves you, pray hard, Be good, go home"? If he does, I'm going to church with you this weekend.

I like worms too and have an interesting story about worms. Maybe someday.

simple replies to posts...
This is a hostile world we live in. I've always found people with very large trust funds less hostile. Ever notice reports of hostilities in inner city ghetto's with regularity? My majority of years have been spent in Detroit, NYC, BOSTON, and DC...mostly when they held the media title of Murder Capital. I was lucky enough to move with the title.

GPS says Wichita to KCMO Attitude- I really didn't watch it carefully but recall Wichita about 900+, a peak in the flint hills at about 1300+ then about 650 in KCMO- that's my 2am recollections tonight.
So about a 300ft drop. or 300ft increase on the return trip.
Would they cancel? or work=mass times distance times time. Masses in motion tend to stay in motion- gravity would cause coasting downhill additional resistance uphill. Xwork =Xenergy. Would the gas consumption equal out on the Round trip? if not why not?? I think engine load versus feul consumption may not me equal.. Help please...

Likewise I've driven it these past 2 months Wichita to KCMO R/T temps 68 to 101 degrees.

I appreciate both suggestions regarding measuring ethanol. I actually learned something.

Wind---here in Kansas... and my tracker, really not a problem unless it's a cross wind and maybe 2-3 times a year, Gusty, a problem. steady cross wind feels like one front tire is low... I-35 Wichita- KCMO if you watch weather patterns the flow seems to run with the interstate...so a head wind-tail wind on a round trip may negate.

Yet it's possible to round trip with head winds both ways because legs of the trips can be different days..

Given these factors, about 2 posts ago, I mentioned "smoothing" results. Take my last 5 results. averaging them... then next tank remove the oldest average the latest 5.

Opinions please on smoothing results..to reduce wind-temp-altitude-even ethanol variations....or to prove something like ethanol variations or some sort of non fault code problem.

Interesting- SCANGAUGE II result.

Checked the trip feature... MPG--this trip, Today, previous day and Tank. while running to the airport to fedex a late afternoon package.

Previous day was 2.6mpg...What the heck...

yet Tank, Today, and this trip was 24-26mpg...

How can this be???? Since the fillup-Tank was 3-4 days ago..

Well...I got home and while in the drive way, button pushed... I found one of the other previous day parameters in the display to be ZERO... Well, the previous day I worked at home, I think the only movement of the car was to turn it around in the driveway to unload the rear closer to the door. It went down the drive a Y turn in the street and back.
The previous day max speed probably was 3mpg and distance traveled that day was maybe 100 feet. So with so little information the SCANGAUGE II could not calculate previous day MPG...

Thanks for an enjoyable insomniac evening.

It was just surprising to see it for the first time. Hopefully my diagnosis is correct and nothing wrong with the SCANGAUGE II. 2.6 MPG raises anyones eyebrows...

Chevy II huh. I remember my dad looking at them- he was a cheapskate - before chosing a 1961 or 1962 Rambler stationwagon with aluminum heads. He cursed that POS (except for the flip down seats which he liked). It -the Rambler - blew the headgasket/warped the head every few months.
30 mpg is awfully good for 1962- especially with a 2 speed AT. It was a little car of course(not VW little, but little).In the 50's 60's , "my car gets 20 mpg" was the brag. I don't remember any 30 mpg claims , but FE wasn't a huge concern, so not everyone bragged.
Charlie

Charlie

Here's a cheap, easy way to test for ethanol contamination in gasoline:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/how_to_central/automotive/2240212.html

Mike Allen

I'm betting the pyramids go back further than ice cores and tree rings... but I have only proxy science to prove that.

Ice cores and tree rings point to trends that are interpreted. Proxy science fine lines into junk science....on who interpets..



http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/06/040611080100.htm

740,000 years old. Although I'm sure some of your HAM radio experience will provide us with another lucid explanation of the scientific failings inherent in their conclusions. I mean come on, they work at places like Oxford, the Sorbonne etc. They didn't do things they still can't talk about at NASA, so please, go easy on them..

Also, I think (note I said think because I must confess I have some trouble following your arguments, no doubt my intellectual failings) you may be talking about precision vs. accuracy in scientific measurement. It is very possible, but not always easy, to obtain both. Reproducibility (precision) is not the be all/end all to scientific inquiry.

Finally, and I hesitate to bring this up, you may be surprised (although I doubt it) to find out that Kroger does not refine crude oil. Generally jobbers (locally owned, non-big oil affiliated) stations buy their gas from the lowest price supplier. At the risk of sounding like an expert, I have worked at several refineries and bulk terminals for several of the biggest refiners in the US and have seen trucks from Kroger, Swifty, SuperAmerica etc. filling up at the terminal. The company owned stores (of which there are fewer every day) are the only ones that you can be sure are selling BP (Amoco), Exxon-Mobil, Marathon, etc.. gas.

One last thing. To make sure I fit into the theme of the thread:

The large brown dog cannot fly without the yellow umbrella.

YES exactly my point. Proxy Science.
BTW- in ham radio you carry on conversations all the time with people you never meet far away, and you can't see them, but you enjoy their company, ideas and replies. only thing you have yo prove you're competent to use a radio.. here no requirements. scary isn't it...

mr. radio,

I too am a amateur radio op. As you and I both know, just like an airline pilot, all you have to get is 7 out of 10 correct on a multiple choice test they give you the answers to memorize up front. Even CW was simple memorization. Based on that, I hold many of the opinions here more competent than those in the other world you and I share.

Having said all that, I have read each and everyone of your posts in this thread and still have no idea what your point is. You discuss a need for extreme accuracy, yet all of the computations tou have leave out more factors than they include (wind, when was the fuel last delivered to the stations, what if any additives is in the fuel, etc.), not to mention is the thread about technical accuracy, mpg, right wing conspiricies or tin foil hat paranoia?

OK...I give....I had a goal to try to use as many words as you in this post but can't think of a way to stretch this out any more.

I wanna see the am_fm vs. catgic cage match...
.
_H*

I wanna see the am_fm vs. catgic cage match...
.
_H*

I am SO glad I wasn't taking a drink when I read that... yeesh, I'd have blown liquid all over the screen ;).

Now that everything has settled down. My point is it's virtually impossible to replicate data, using simplistic measurements.
Earlier I posted a web site that discusses the need for accuracy 5-6 centuries ago with the advent of the thermometer...

well, each has their own opinion. Frustrating is trying to improve on something, and having various variables skew your attempts.

Everyone knows gas is delivered from various sources. Just follow a gas delivery truck.

I do know during the height of the gas crisis Regular 87 flavor gas we being stretched. Kansas news sources reported Ethanol sales down at the wholesale level because gas prices have fallen.

Since I was rear ended by Jeep Wagoneer while waiting to turn left. Me turning left, not the Wagoneer, who's pilot was yacking of the cell phone...she did $5800 damage to a car worth $5k that was meticulously cared for since I drove it off the showroom floor. I clearly had another 100k miles in that baby.
So much for further investigations.
I broke some part of a neck bone that isn't necessary, don't worry about me.

I've decided it's best to remove my scan gauge from what is left of the car. I settled with her insurance regarding the car, medical is still open.

The points I've concluded is
#1 during the gas crisis ethanol was added in greater amounts than 10% claimed.
#2 Gas east of the mississippi contains less ethanol. Therefore higher mpg.
#3 my car only- things like turning off the air conditioning does not improve mpg
#4 my car only- Acetone 3oz. per 10 gal repeatedly improved mileage 4-5%

So I'm driving a rental. I told them I'd turn it back in when the check arrives and is cashed.

I thought about a Jeta TDI but only long enough to figure there is no advantage at todays prices to go diesel. you pay the same price per mile per gallon. There is such a glut of used cars today, I may drive my old pickup till I find a car that get's me 30+ mpg out of the box.

In conclusion. The rental was a chevy colbalt. Average mileage could barely get over 27mpg. The transmission was horribly noisy, especially cold. As hard as i could I could not obtain the 32+ mpg chevy claims. I have had the car 3-1/2 weeks now..

So I've got my scanguage II and no car to put it in. I'm no longer dangerous, But the gas truth is that cheep gas means less likely hood someone is spiking it with additional ethanol as Kansas now has an ethanol glut. blamed on inexpensive gas...



I doubt that I will ever continue this thread. But how soon will the crisis return?

See Ya.....

That was an entertaining thread, if only for the opinionated AM-FM Radio's writing style. But as a rational thinker, I would have preferred less conspiracy theory re: ethanol blends, and more proof. Why ignore testing kits that give simple reproducible results, to rely on mileage results, with all their variability. Yes, the mileage varies, but you can't use the end result to pick one cause (ethanol blends) over all others (humidity, headwinds, unchecked tire pressures, air filters, etc.)

If you're going to focus on ethanol cheats, how did they get past all the state weights and measures people? The gas tax people? The feds? The refinery inspectors? The company QC people? Consumer groups? Farmers Co-ops? Individuals with cheap testing kits?

Re: Al Gore and GW. You're entitled to your opinion. Your opinion and $3 will buy you a cup of $3 coffee. I've found most conversations on cleanmpg are civil and intelligent two-way open-minded exchanges of information. This thread largely lacks that.

Let me introduce myself. I am dangerous, I push the limit. I am politically incorrect.. I'm strange...way too many hours in the basement of the science building. 43 years as a ham radio operator... you know those guys are really strange, stay away from them. They duct tape their shoes, drive clunkers and are the tightest people in the universe. A ham shot up a post office once and another invented microwave hamburgers goofing off at a military radar site. After all they all claim to talk to outer space and can prove it. I can boast to the unbelievable...I worked in the pentagon, beneath the pentagon, worked at NASA, been from the end of the Aleutian chain to Florida, and Maine to California. I don't trust the government, I don't trust you, or any of MY family. My closest relative is over 1000 miles away on purpose, my purpose. I've worked on things I still can't talk about. I've been a field engineer (electronics, computers) for over 35 years and travel, my 2003 tracker just turned 100K this week. I bought it new.

Now that you got past that BS... I don't need direction, reply's or at-a-boys. I may make 30 posts or none more. This is the first post.



I know you are mad :)

I Norway, a former RC model airplane member being mad at his club for joining the national organization of air sports, used his ham radio to shoot down expensive models during an official arrangement/show. Two years in a row. The last year the police caught him in his car, with a gigantic antenna and a radio programmed to transmit on two alternate rc-control frequencies by pressing a pair of buttons on the microphone.

Caught in the act, so to say.

If you read norwegian: http://www.laagendalsposten.no/apps/pbcs.dll/artikkel?SearchID=73154637170838&Avis=LP&Dato=20031125&Kategori=NYHET&Lopenr=111260041&Ref=AR

Looks like some of the posts show some disparity between accuracy and precision.

We can do that measuring a titanium bar to the .001 of an inch or even .000001 of an inch accuracy


That's precision. If your measuring tool is off by 5 inches, you can measure to the .000001 but still be off by 5 inches. Highly precise, but wildly inaccurate.