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A while ago I started a thread over in Priuschat about this, with
mixed results. Basically, there are circumstances in which
pedestrians legally have right of way, but in places that can
*really* cause energy waste in passing cars. Just the other
day I had to basically panic stop for a couple of people who
approached a crosswalk very quickly and basically dove into
traffic -- huge hit on my momentum, of course, entirely legal
on their part and *requiring* me to yield, and if they had waited
for me and maybe one more car to pass first they could have
used a generous gap behind us to cross in.
.
So I'm having issues with the "pedestrians have right of way"
thing, say, anywhere where posted vehicle speed limits are any
higher than say 20 mph. There's got to be some tradeoff that
would allow safe crossings in a variety of locations but *not*
donk energy efficiency on the vehicle side. It takes a heckuva
lot less energy to stop and then restart 150 pounds of meat than
it does 3000 pounds of scrap metal.
.
_H*

Until the laws are changed to make sense I guess we have to just suck it up. The other day I was turning in to work and pedestrians were going to cross. Technicaly they weren't in the crosswalk so I made my turn. The pedestrians saw my car and didn't car and just kept walking.

They were shocked when they steped on to the road as I was turning. There was no way they could get in front of my car even if they tried, But they probably felt the wind from my car as I passed them. They were probably about 3 feet from the curb and 3 feet from my car.

I felt a little guilty, but also a little angry they didn't want to cross safely. In this case since I had already turned left and was in a trafic lane there was no safe way for me to just stop where I was and let them cross.

Oh well. I just wish people used more common sense as pedestrians and as drivers.

hobbit,

My take on bad driving starts with how people bumped into each other 20 years ago at Walmart. Either they were too busy, or just don't pay attention to others. This naturally came to the roads, and rahter than driving friendly, I think most people drove more aggressively, got bigger vehicles, or both. In the case of bigger vehicles, it lead to an arms race of being bigger or more intimidating, worsening traffic in the process.

All I can tell you is to never, ever move to San Francisco. If there was ever a list of "most car-unfriendly cities in North America" I'd bet San Francisco would be on that list. When I spent a week there, I just took my company rental from the airport to my hotel in downtown and did everything on foot for the whole week. I was amazed at how pedestrians would just step out into traffic without even looking if they had a walk signal, as if they were invincible, and they would still cross even on a red light if they at least glanced to make sure cars had time to stop (at their own green light) before hitting them. It had to be the rudest display of selfishness I've ever witnessed on a large scale before.

This getting to be a real problem.

The laws are way out dated and not enforced at all anymore.

Its really bad here in Oklahoma in some areas. The college campus setting are the worst. The peds have right a way everywhere. I saw a kid walk into the side of a car once. He never looked up. he was playing a game on his cell or txting. Walks right in the road and into the side of a car stoped in traffic. Campus cops came a running. Didnt look happy at all with the driver.

We have a section of town right on hwy 75 that folks j-walk on all the time. The folks that live around there seem to think they are duty bound to bolt out infront of traffic. Or just langwish in lanes taking 3 to 5 mins. to cross the hwy. North Tulsa has a bad problem with this also. Cops will write you a ticket for speeding in a heart beat. But wont address the j-walkers for love, money or life. Theres a racial element that would explode.

We almost hit somebody in PHX when we were there. I was warned about the problem there and told to give the cross walks a wide birth.

When I worked at a hospital in Tulsa several years ago we saw the aftermath of car and ped. accdents all the time. The hospital sets up with 8 floors so you can see alot of one section of a interchange for several hwy's and interstates from the west tower. Once a month or better a homeless person would get creamed crossing the hwy's around there. Or a child would get hit. The children broke your heart.

At one point a few years ago the city was having so much money problems the mayor ordered the street lights turned off on stretchs of the hwy's and interstates in the metro area. I didnt know the city had to foot the bill for the lighting on a fed. hwy. Ped/auto accdents dubble during that time. Was a pretty big deal here.

When I was a young child I saw a little girl hit by a ice cream truck. I was about 5 years old I think she was about 3 years old. I guess I didnt learn my lesson. At about 8 years old the Tulsa police busted me for riding my mini bike in the street. Jumping out of ditchs. Riding block long wheelies on it in the street. I had to push the mini bike home. Cops wrote my parents a fist full of tickets totaling about $800 bucks! I got tore up over that one. Then went right out and did it again. My parents where at there wits end. My father took me out and started his new Fiat 850 Coupe. He put it in first gear with the engine idling and told me to push the car backwards down the driveway. I did, heck I thought we were going to work on it or something. He droped the clutch and the car knocked me smooth on my butt when it lept up and died. Then dummy me I did it again! Then father set me down and used that example of the Fiat knocking me flat off my feet as to what a car doing 30 mph would do to me. Got my first lesson in mass and energy on a hot summer day. Ive never forgot it. And glad my father had to go to such extremes to teach me something.

Sorry for the ramble.

When I was a kid our parents drilled into us that you didn't linger in the street, ever. You crossed quickly, and still looked around even when you're in the street. You made eye contact with drivers who are braking or waiting for you to cross. You tapped on their trunk if you were crossing behind a car. Didn't stand too close to curbs -- cars jump them. Fear was instilled into us, I think for good reason.

People don't realize the law isn't going to instantly materialize a force shield to protect them just because they're "in the right" . The law also isn't going to save them from a driver changing the radio station, who's about to sneeze, or has terrible brakes. The laws of physics always favor the car, unfortunately.

Most other countries aren't as pedestrian-friendly. I saw a family whose nationality I recognized (because I share it) leisurely crossing the street, after the light had changed. They didn't bother to hurry up or act like they were in any danger at all, and yes the cars just politely waited for them. Knowing the driving style where they come from, I had a chuckle knowing they wouldn't dream of doing that back home.

When I worked at my last job, there were a bunch of forklifts running around all the time. They were electric ones about 90% of the time so they were required to use thier horns at all intersections and blind spots. We were told that pedestrians always had the rigt-of-way. One of our supervisors added something on to the end of that warning one day. He said, "You may have the right of way but if you do something stupid like not paying attention, you're goinfg to die." While I was working there, there was an incident at another factory in the area where the owner was taking some people on a tour of his plant and wasn't paying attention and stepped out in front of a forklift. He was knocked to the ground and his head hit the concrete so hard that he died instantly. I was always told that it was possible to be "dead" right. :)

One answer, of course, is to *not* go very fast in areas that
are pedestrian-heavy in the first place, and be prepared to stop.
Guaranteed to piss off the Ram 2500 behind me, of course, but
what else is new. The incident I referred to above was *not* in
such an area, however -- feeder street a fair distance from the
center of town, but still near enough to have sidewalks and
crossings. This wasn't at a light, it was a random crosswalk
painted near an otherwise uncontrolled intersection with a side
street. The people crossing behaved the same as though they
*were* in the middle of town where drivers expect a lot more
foot traffic.
.
When I brought this up on priuschat, a bunch of people jumped
down my throat for even *considering* the idea that the existing
laws were misguided for *any* situation -- I guess those were the
people who hang around the bboard to find out how to pair their
Treo to the car, not learn how to drive for FE. *sigh*
.
With the Prius specifically, of course, there's that fat-ass
A pillar on the left that tends to completely block the view of
an approaching pedestrian from that side. Had a couple of
"eep!" moments before hardwiring the little head-swing to check
past it into my brain.
.
_H*