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Here is what my first tank is starting to look like from my SGII:

50.6mpg average

cost - $5.62

22mph average for city driving only

31.2 hrs to empty

3.2 hrs driving

688 Miles To Empty

71.1 miles driven

13.6 gallons remaining

1.4 gallons used

The more I drive the '09 FEHL, I learn more about the techniques that work and don't work. There is no way I could get this good of mileage in my '05 because of the heat and E-10. I would be going slower and working my tail off to get 45mpg in my '05 and it's well broke-in.

What I'm finding out is the '09 doesn't need to be shifted to "N" or "L" any, just keep it in drive unless you need to pick-up speed going downhill. One key thing to do is use fuel-cut by letting off the gas pedal in "D" any chance you get. This mean slowly accelerate a few MPH and glide down in "D" a few MPH for the fuel-cut. This is like P&G with the engine running but the Glide is like EV because of fuel-cut. This is very helpful when the SoC is so low you can't go EV while the generator is bringing up the SoC to ~41.6% or more.

The '09 will not only go instant EV when you let off the gas pedal, it went EV a number of times as I was pulsing as the battery SoC went above 41.6%. The new 2.5L is perfect and allows a much lower engine LOAD during acceleration. I can really see this while I climb tall bridges much faster at a lower RPM (less than 2,000) than my '05. On flat roads you can keep the RPM's easily between 1,200 - 1,500 and stay with traffic with this eCVT.

Enough for now, any questions?

GaryG

Hi Gary:

___Finally :)

___Is the new 2.5L stronger but also still as fuel efficient in low speed pulses? It also sounds more Prius like with ICE shut down in any number of scenarios without L – Gear, N shifts or anything else than? Any steady state speed numbers yet? 30, 40, 50 and 60 mph? SoC range per SG-II X-Gauges. Anything new with the mimics in the NAVI or any additional FCD information in the non-NAVI versions?

___How about the new Michelin’s. Do they roll better than the ECO-Plus’ even when brand new?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Fantastic!

Does it force charge the same way the '05 does?

What does the mimic look like? Bigger or smaller? Can you drive it without any arrows from the motors to the wheels? I kept trying to get just arrows from the engine to the wheels and battery like I can see in the Prius while driving Debbie's vehicle, but it only seemed to let me do that on slight uphills?

What is the max speed you've been able to maintain EV? What is the range for EV from a topped up battery?

Have I asked enough questions? ;)

Hi Gary:

___Finally :)

___Is the new 2.5L stronger but also still as fuel efficient in low speed pulses? It also sounds more Prius like with ICE shut down in any number of scenarios without L – Gear, N shifts or anything else than? Any steady state speed numbers yet? 30, 40, 50 and 60 mph? SoC range per SG-II X-Gauges. Anything new with the mimics in the NAVI or any additional FCD information in the non-NAVI versions?

___How about the new Michelin’s. Do they roll better than the ECO-Plus’ even when brand new?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hi Sean and Wayne

This '09 FEH is completely different than past FEH/MMH and there is not much of the LGA or regen power in my '09. I'm still learning but this 2.5L is much more efficient at low RPM's than my '05 2.3L FEH. Wayne, lets wait for some kind of break-in before steady state speed test during the hot summer here. I will say Ford Engineers out did them selfs on the production of the '09 FEH. It should only get better for me with this '09 folks!

GaryG

Hi Gary :)

Congratulations on your new 2009 FEH :) :) :)

50.6mpg - & it's not even *close* to broken in yet :eek: Now I'm *definitely* looking forward to reading about your experiences with it, in comparison to our 2005 FEH's :)

You'll have to write a whole new article for this one :D

(By the way, after having experienced xGauges last month at the WFEC, I've decided to buy a new SG at our next Milwaukee Hybrid Group meeting :) Just can't live any longer w/out that CFE & SoC :D :D)

Hi Sean and Wayne

This '09 FEH is completely different than past FEH/MMH and there is not much of the LGA or regen power in my '09. I'm still learning but this 2.5L is much more efficient at low RPM's than my '05 2.3L FEH. Wayne, lets wait for some kind of break-in before steady state speed test during the hot summer here. I will say Ford Engineers out did them selfs on the production of the '09 FEH. It should only get better for me with this '09 folks!

GaryG
Hey Gary, does the 09 still have the jump start button for the HV battery? The online owner's manual makes no mention of it.

One key thing to do is use fuel-cut by letting off the gas pedal in "D" any chance you get. This mean slowly accelerate a few MPH and glide down in "D" a few MPH for the fuel-cut. This is like P&G with the engine running but the Glide is like EV because of fuel-cut. This is very helpful when the SoC is so low you can't go EV while the generator is bringing up the SoC to ~41.6% or more.I couldn't get fuel-cut to work in the previous model (08). Did they add it for the 09 or was I just not looking in the right spot. I was watching for Open Loop operations on decelleration (a usual signal of fuel cut).

11011011

I couldn't get fuel-cut to work in the previous model (08). Did they add it for the 09 or was I just not looking in the right spot. I was watching for Open Loop operations on decelleration (a usual signal of fuel cut).

11011011
There is a PID for the FEH that indicates fuel cut mode, but closed loop with FC in the FEH has been documented by many. I guess Ford decided not to update the mode $01 PID immediately. I have seen closed loop with fuel cut for a few seconds but eventually it displays open loop.

There is a PID for the FEH that indicates fuel cut mode, but closed loop with FC in the FEH has been documented by many. I guess Ford decided not to update the mode $01 PID immediately. I have seen closed loop with fuel cut for a few seconds but eventually it displays open loop.So does the SG read MPG:9999 or MPG:300 on a fuel cut decel (assuming you programmed the Fuel Cut TPS value correctly.

11011011

Hi Gary :)

Congratulations on your new 2009 FEH :) :) :)

50.6mpg - & it's not even *close* to broken in yet :eek: Now I'm *definitely* looking forward to reading about your experiences with it, in comparison to our 2005 FEH's :)

You'll have to write a whole new article for this one :D

(By the way, after having experienced xGauges last month at the WFEC, I've decided to buy a new SG at our next Milwaukee Hybrid Group meeting :) Just can't live any longer w/out that CFE & SoC :D :D)

Thanks Debbie

The '09 is kicking my '05's tail right now and it's going to take some time adjusting my habits. It rides as smooth as a Lincoln even with 50psi in the tires. I heard some new '09 owner say he was going to be at the next Milwaukee Hybrid Group meeting, so ask him for a ride.

My MIT son just sent me one more SGII for my birthday, so now I have two in the '09 and one in the '05. Got to find a good way of mounting them because the '09 has a completely different dash. I took some pictures of the '09 and will upload them here soon.

GaryG

Hey Gary, does the 09 still have the jump start button for the HV battery? The online owner's manual makes no mention of it.

Hi Carl

Your right!

I couldn't find it in the manual that came with my '09 either. When I checked the drivers side panel, there was no access door either. I suspect cost and low HV battery problems may have been an issue. Also, I read Ford changed the DC/DC converter for the '09 and that could also caused a design change for lower cost.

GaryG

I couldn't get fuel-cut to work in the previous model (08). Did they add it for the 09 or was I just not looking in the right spot. I was watching for Open Loop operations on decelleration (a usual signal of fuel cut).

11011011

Hi Dan

I was going by the article that a Ford Hybrid Engineer stated:

"Idle-stop and start events are much quicker, and enable greater efficiency with as many as two times the starts and stops in a given driving cycle as the previous system. The quicker engine shut-downs and pre-positioning (for the next start) also reduces O2 build-up in the engine’s catalyst. Decel Fuel Shut-Off (DFSO) mode and electric-only mode have also been expanded"
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/02/ford-previews-n.html

I'll check for Open-Loop tomorrow Dan.

GaryG

Here are some photos I took today:
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/36

GaryG

Hi Gary:

___I just looked at your Monroney sticker and noticed 31 highway on the 09. That is something new too!

___I see the small dams. Nice job Ford! I also saw the new NAVI screen. It looks much more modern finally. Can you take a snap of some of the various screen available? General mp and of course the good stuff ;)

___Are you noticing anything different with the fan cooled pack vs. the A/C cooled one in your previous FEH? Higher FE possibly :)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

I've been driving this 05' FEH and really like it. The 09' is a huge improvement in "looks" category.

Hi Gary:

___I just looked at your Monroney sticker and noticed 31 highway on the 09. That is something new too!

___I see the small dams. Nice job Ford! I also saw the new NAVI screen. It looks much more modern finally. Can you take a snap of some of the various screen available? General mp and of course the good stuff ;)

___Are you noticing anything different with the fan cooled pack vs. the A/C cooled one in your previous FEH? Higher FE possibly :)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hi Wayne

Haven't had it on the highway yet to see the improved (1mpg) rating. I just love fast city driving and the extra EV power at 40mph. I can set the CC at 39mph till the battery drains for a restart. Ford allowed the battery to drain down a little more than 40% in the '09 compared to my '05. Not sure if it's because of break-in, but it's very hard to start from a stop without a restart with less than ~45% SoC. I have no problem from a stop in EV in my '05 with a SoC of ~44% getting to 30mph before a restart.

Ford left the Aux A/C for the battery in the '09. This engine is a lot more efficient and much more powerful than the 2.3L. It appears I'm not getting complete fuel cut when I let off the gas pedal because I'm staying closed loop at speeds under 50mph. My '05 wouldn't increase near as much instant MPG than the '09 when I decel. At 40mph when I get a restart and the SoC is at 39.3%, I can decel and get over an instant 100mpg reading. My '05 given a SoC of 40% would drop to about 25mpg or lower on a decel with the SoC that low. From a cold start with a low SoC in the morning, I'm lucky to have a 30mpg current average at this 3rd stoplight 1.8 miles from my home. This morning in my '09 with the same conditions, I was at 35.6mpg at that same stoplight. In comparing instant MPG during the warm-up, the '09 is much better with E-10 than the '05 FEH.

I'll get some more shots of the Nav screens soon to upload in my photo gallery.

GaryG

Was driving the family on a ~50 mile highway trip this afternoon with the A/C on and tried fuel cut with no luck. Turned off the A/C and bingo! Open-Loop and 9,999mpg came up on the SGII. The '09 FEH does have Fuel Cut for sure when you let of the accelerator in "D". No engine run-up just plain old DFSO.

GaryG

OK... What XGauge to you code to find Fuel-Cut and what value does it read in fuel-cut and what value does it read out of fuel-cut? And does the XGauge work on the '05 and '09.

I looked at Carl's spreadsheet and the only thing I don't think I tried was Fuel Rail Voltage. Any hints would be appreciated.

1101011

OK... What XGauge to you code to find Fuel-Cut and what value does it read in fuel-cut and what value does it read out of fuel-cut? And does the XGauge work on the '05 and '09.

I looked at Carl's spreadsheet and the only thing I don't think I tried was Fuel Rail Voltage. Any hints would be appreciated.

1101011

I have two of the newer SGII's in my '09, the one I just got says version 5.1 on the box. Both SGII's say Fuelcut when you go to setup then Fuel. Both gauges had a default setting of 24, but on my '09, the TPS (accelerator position) reads 14 when I let off the gas pedal in drive. Someone said the SGII instructions say set the Fuelcut 4 above idle so I set mine at 18. Since my Instant MPG reads 9,999 and I read Open-Loop at the same time, I didn't set-up the X-Gauge to go any further like Fuel Rail Voltage.

My older SGII does not have a Fuelcut mode setting in the Setup as an option because this was something Ron Delong added later after we complained. My '05 FEH does not have Fuel-cut unless you get a run-up of the engine during engine braking. I thought I was getting some Fuel-cut in my '09 below 40mph because of the higher Instant MPG readings during decel. My '05 does not act the same way during decel and I get a much lower Instant MPG reading if the generator is giving the battery a heavy charge. The bottom line is I think I'm getting Fuel-cut in my '09 during slower speeds, but it's not a 100% Fuel Cut like it gets at higher than 40mph during decel in "D".

I'm thinking that fuel cut at highway speeds could really increase FE using the P&G technique, but this is the first vehicle that I know of that gets Fuel cut like this. Does anyone know if the '07 Honda Civic my daughter has have Fuel Cut?

GaryG

Hi Gary:

___Your daughters Civic has Fuel Cut as well!

___Good Luck

___Wayne

I have two of the newer SGII's in my '09, the one I just got says version 5.1 on the box. Both SGII's say Fuelcut when you go to setup then Fuel. Both gauges had a default setting of 24, but on my '09, the TPS (accelerator position) reads 14 when I let off the gas pedal in drive. Someone said the SGII instructions say set the Fuelcut 4 above idle so I set mine at 18. Since my Instant MPG reads 9,999 and I read Open-Loop at the same time, I didn't set-up the X-Gauge to go any further like Fuel Rail Voltage. I should have framed my question better. I was looking for the PID Carl mentioned. My '08 with fuel cut-off value set as you prescribe is not showing MPG of 9999 at city or highway decel. It also does not show open loop while RPM is nonzero. May need a magic handshake like the Prius to put it in "fuel-cut" mode.
There is a PID for the FEH that indicates fuel cut mode, but closed loop with FC in the FEH has been documented by many. I guess Ford decided not to update the mode $01 PID immediately. I have seen closed loop with fuel cut for a few seconds but eventually it displays open loop.11011011

The ‘09 is programmed to restart when you shift to “L” however, shifting to “L” for regen in the ‘09 creates open-loop and 9,999mpg which is Fuel Cut. The ‘05 only had Fuel Cut with a run-up of the engine RPM during engine braking. The ‘09 goes instant EV at 40mph on decel in “D”. In addition, above 40mph a decel in “D” also causes Fuel Cut. The aggressive programming of Fuel Cut in the ‘09 allows it to be much more fuel efficient than prior FEH/MMH models.

I first thought that because the engine started in the '09 that I wouldn't be shifting to "L" much, but now that I see Fuel Cut on decel in "L" I've changed my mind. More study needs to be made using "L" regen to charge the HV battery because even though the engine starts, you have Fuel Cut. Today, I was back to using "L" when coming to a stop for the regen charge and complete Fuel Cut. The SoC drops further in EV in the '09, but it still takes between 41.6% to 42% SoC to return to EV. This can leave me with engine idle at a stoplight while the engine is using the generator to bring the SoC up for EV.

GaryG

An Update

I've found that the Cruise Control (CC) can now be set below 30mph to 25mph. Also the CC will drain down the battery to ~39.6% till you get a restart to charge the battery. As the battery gets to ~41.9%, the FEHL will go EV on its own while still in CC. It has been reported this happens all the way to 40mph, but I've only been up to ~38mph in CC for the FEH to go EV on its own. I also have less than 900 miles on my FEH.

This should be interesting to see a steady state speed MPG comparison in these automatic EV/ICE-ON, discharge/charge results from 25mph, 30mph, 35mph and even 40mph after more break-in miles. I'd say conduct the test starting by setting the cruise at 25mph till EV at 41.9% and reset the SGII Current MPG Trip as soon as she goes EV. Let the CC cycle from the start of EV and the Current MPG reset to say 4 cycles ending in a 41.9% SoC as she goes EV again. Any suggestions? Take the SGII Current MPG average for each speed setting above.

Wayne, you mentioned getting some steady state speed test earlier in this thread, but you can see it would be impossible to do a test under 40mph without going EV during the test. It appears that if the battery SoC is above 41.9% and below 1,500rpm's during acceleration, the '09 will go EV on its own. The RPM during acceleration could be even higher than 1,500rpm's sometimes and it will go EV on me. The '09 accelerates better at a much lower RPM than my '05 FEH.

GaryG

An Update

I've found that the Cruise Control (CC) can now be set below 30mph to 25mph. Also the CC will drain down the battery to ~39.6% till you get a restart to charge the battery. As the battery gets to ~41.9%, the FEHL will go EV on its own while still in CC. It has been reported this happens all the way to 40mph, but I've only been up to ~38mph in CC for the FEH to go EV on its own. I also have less than 900 miles on my FEH.

This should be interesting to see a steady state speed MPG comparison in these automatic EV/ICE-ON, discharge/charge results from 25mph, 30mph, 35mph and even 40mph after more break-in miles. I'd say conduct the test starting by setting the cruise at 25mph till EV at 41.9% and reset the SGII Current MPG Trip as soon as she goes EV. Let the CC cycle from the start of EV and the Current MPG reset to say 4 cycles ending in a 41.9% SoC as she goes EV again. Any suggestions? Take the SGII Current MPG average for each speed setting above.

Wayne, you mentioned getting some steady state speed test earlier in this thread, but you can see it would be impossible to do a test under 40mph without going EV during the test. It appears that if the battery SoC is above 41.9% and below 1,500rpm's during acceleration, the '09 will go EV on its own. The RPM during acceleration could be even higher than 1,500rpm's sometimes and it will go EV on me. The '09 accelerates better at a much lower RPM than my '05 FEH.

GaryG

Well, you could pull the A/C clutch fuse and turn the defroster on to keep the ICE on without the actual compressor load.

I suspect that EV offers no advantage in the 09, though, due to its improved ICE efficiency.

Well, you could pull the A/C clutch fuse and turn the defroster on to keep the ICE on without the actual compressor load.

I suspect that EV offers no advantage in the 09, though, due to its improved ICE efficiency.

The problem to me with removing the fuse to the compressor would be a test that was not real world results with that vehicle at those steady state speeds under 40mph. A comparison of the steady state speed test with a SoC of ~53% at 42mph on up could be compared to the steady state speed test in my '05 located in my article.

There is no question to me that the new 2.5L is more efficient on E-10 and very likely more efficient on straight gas than the 2.3L. As far as EV mode being more efficient, I think it is. I've had no battery heat problems in 92 degree weather like I do year round in my '05 here. With a slow start and 50% SoC, I can start from a stop and go to 40mph in EV and the drivetrain is not even broke-in yet. I haven't compared the EV distance with a high SoC yet, but I'm sure it will be more than my '05 ever was new. I don't think it will be much over 2 miles, but I could be wrong. I'll have to add that to my to do list. One big change to EV is how fast it occurs. The tach will drop from any RPM like the key was turned off to go EV if you have 41.9% SoC. There is no bounce or wait, the Tach needle just falls like a rock when you pop the accelerator pedal off in "D" at 40mph and below.

The '09 FEH/MMH does not have Delayed Glide Entry (DGE) into EV. I can also shift into neutral at the same time as I let off the gas pedal for an instant D-DGE without any delay for a smooth glide in EV from 40mph. This alone makes EV mode more efficient than prior models.

GaryG

how are you able to view SOC with the FEH 09? it comes with one or your using x-gauge of the scangauge?

how are you able to view SOC with the FEH 09? it comes with one or your using x-gauge of the scangauge?

The Nav sys has a SoC gauge, but it's a POS. Thanks to CarlD, we now have a SGII X-gauge that reads percentage of SoC quite well. I now know within a tenth of a percent of SoC when I can go EV.

GaryG

Update...

The '09 FEH/MMH will go instant EV with a shift to Neutral at 40mph and below with a SoC of 41.9% or higher. Shifting to neutral above 40mph prevents Fuel-Cut (DFCO) when decelerating, so there is no benefit there.

My second tank MPG average is looking like a little over 49mpg and close to 700 miles. Considering we had ~4 days of high winds and heavy rain with Tropical Storm Fay, this is excellent for this time of year in So. FL on E-10 gas.

Based on my present tank miles on the trip OD of 604 miles, a MTE of 71 miles, and knowing I have 1.3 gallons of fuel left at 0 MTE, I will burn 15 gallons at 735 miles. My SGII Tank reading says I burned 12.2 gallons so far and have 132 miles TTE. My SGII Tank Size is set at 15 gallons. Based on the present Tank miles and the MTE projection, I'm getting a little over 49mpg. The Nav Sys says my average is 46.5mpg. This confirms my earlier difference between the SGII and the Nav Sys MPG averages. It is still my opinion that the OEM gauges don't recognize Fuel-Cut (DFSO) and will always read lower MPG averages. Since the new Nav Sys can be reprogrammed, Ford should have a recall and update the system for DFSO.

GaryG

According to my tank fills now logged only here on CleanMPG, I've been able to get the percentages of the Nav Sys and SGII are off. The nav Sys reads ~3.8% high and the SGII reads a shameful ~11% high. I've had my SGII adjusted plus 10.4% on the tank refill screen during this past 6th refill, and it's still reading ~.8mpg high. The SgII was reading 51mpg tanks before any adjustment and gas pump was at ~46mpg. My Nav Sys is presently reading 49.8mpg with ~360 miles on this tank and with my 10.4% adjusted SGII, it's reading 48.8mpg on the tank so far. This should put my true tank average at 48mpg so far at this point.

So for those with the '09 FEH/MMH, your Nav Sys reads ~3.8% higher than the actual gas pumped into the tank. Can anyone else confirm what I'm finding on both these gauges?

GaryG

With all the News on the '10 Fusion Hybrid I'm starting to confirm the '09 FEH/MMH has most of the same changes. DFSO or Fuel-Cut was one of those things added to the '09 but no details were ever published. Here is what was released about DFSO on the Fusion Hybrid and I can confirm with the SGII my '09 FEH operates the same:

"The 2.5 Litre 16 valve DOHC Atkinson cycle Duratec engine with 156hp (114Kw) and 135 ft-lb (182Nm). This is mated to a flywheel mounted 106Hp (78Kw) Permanent Magnet AC synchronous (BLDC) 275 Volt electric motor (no torque figure was released) with an electronically controlled CVT, all fairly conventional for a parallel hybrid and similar to the Prius and Camry hybrids. The difference is in the throttle-by-wire aggressive deceleration fuel shut-off and the integration of brake by wire regeneration.

Aggressive deceleration fuel shut-off

The fuel cut-off disables fuel delivery when the driver lifts off the accelerator. However, the engine management doesn't just abruptly disable the injectors. That would cause bumps and hesitation that the occupants of the car would be able to feel. Instead, the control strategy uses engine torque as the control variable. A desired engine torque is calculated based on a combination of driver demand, speed, gear ratio and other variables. When the accelerator is released, the torque is ramped down to zero. The fuel delivery, spark timing and electronic throttle position are determined from the torque demand. This causes the injector pulses to be ramped down so that the overall power delivery is kept smooth and seamless without abrupt changes."
http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/dec2008/bw20081230_769866.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index+-+temp_lifestyle

This explains why I'm seeing full Fuel-Cut when I shift to "L" because you feel the bumps and run-ups in RPM anyway. However, fuel-cut is much more gradual and smooth in "D" and below 40mph you don't get full fuel-cut, just a mark increase in instant MPG. Above 45mph in "D" I get a much slower seamless transfer to full fuel-cut. When I drop to 40mph in full fuel-cut in "D", there is a bump where the SGII shows instant 9999mpg and open-loop in fuel-cut and then a 200-300mpg instant reading as I go EV. This is all within a second or two and then the SGII returns to an Instant MPG of 9999 in EV. After reading the above article I can see how and why DFSO works in my '09 FEH.

GaryG