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How high will gas have to go before this Country starts to take a hard look at all the unessary stop lights that we see every day? How many times do we see 20 cars stopped in both directions with no one coming on their green light?
At least where I live, we have a daytime and night time light cycle, so it's easier
to hypermile through the green early in the a.m.
4 way stop signs......an absolute waste of gas !

I think stop lights and stop signs were placed for a purpose - accident avoidance and to save lives. Many times a stop sign or traffic light is installed only after several people have died at the location, particularly careless drivers attempting to make left turns on busy highways.

In Michigan a driver is allowed to make a right turn on a red light so long as traffic is clear. You haven't noted your location, but if that option is not available in your state, contact your state legislators and voice your opinion.

P.S. Why aren't you turning off your engine at such long lights?

The problem is that 4 way stops are much cheaper than lights. And timed lights are cheaper than traffic aware lights (actually I think the tech is similar cost, but install costs are higher). So local towns can't afford a traffic light, but at certain times of the day, a 4 way stop is necessary to get traffic through safely. If it were a 2-way stop, then cars on the stopped roads would either back up or at least have to make a dangerous trip across fast traffic. If people would obey speed limits in these areas and demonstrate some general courtesey, then 2-way's stops would be more practical.

And don't forget...even traffic aware light have situations where they are unaware (sensor failure, or vehicle not heavy/magnetic enough...so they still have to switch from time to time just to make sure any traffic they didn't see gets through....even if it seems like they changed for no reason.

4-way stops can easily be replaced with small roundabouts. these increase the flow of traffic (hypothetically) because nobody has to stop, as long as drivers are familiar with roundabout rules.

4-way stops can easily be replaced with small roundabouts. these increase the flow of traffic (hypothetically) because nobody has to stop, as long as drivers are familiar with roundabout rules.

Sometimes the roundabouts can be more deadly than an straight forward intersection especially if there are lots of traffic in all 4 directions. Stop lights are there for a reason. Neverthess, I agree that you can turn off your engine when you are at a stop light in order to save gas. If you can't restart your engine (especially in winter), get ready to be honked like mad from people behind you.

One thing I wish is to have the city spend $ on making more overhead bridges and take out some uncontrolled crosswalks. The crosswalks can be irritating.

4-way stops can easily be replaced with small roundabouts. these increase the flow of traffic (hypothetically) because nobody has to stop, as long as drivers are familiar with roundabout rules.

dont do it. General US population of drivers cannot handle the complexities of round-a-bouts. i love em, but i'm an aussie.... not having 4 way stops confuses the crap out of regular drivers.. america is too dumb for round-a-bouts.

I think Americans can handle roundabouts. They've caught on in a few communities here in the Northwest (notably Lacey, WA and Bend, OR), and people figure it out pretty quick. I don't know where "more deadly" comes from -- they generally have lower accident rates, and the impact speeds are much lower on average. I think 4 way stops confuse people more than roundabouts do. One downside of roundabouts is that they take up more land, so they're not always an easy replacement for all-way stops.

Roundabouts can be a great solution for intersections between two (or more) streets of relatively equal traffic volume, but they don't work very well for intersections between major arterials and side streets. You might spend less time stopped, but overall the trip will take longer (and on average use more fuel) for those traveling on the major street. Also, roundabouts DO become confusing if they're used for intersections between major arterials, because then you need multiple lanes in the roundabout and that confuses people, no doubt about it.

Back to the original question. A recent survey by the National Transportation Operations Coalition gave the country a grade of "D" overall for traffic signal operations. But it can be a lot better, and improved signal timing is by far the most cost effective way of improving roadway capacity and reducing congestion and fuel use. Studies have repeatedly found a benefit:cost ratio of at least 40:1 (yes, forty to one) for area-wide signal timing projects. The fuel savings alone are estimated at 10% or more for urban and suburban environments if done right.

In response to "How many times do we see 20 cars stopped in both directions with no one coming on their green light?" my answer is: around here, rarely. Our local agencies have done a good job of optimizing signal timing. The difference between good signal timing and bad signal timing is enormous. Although they're mostly based on very old technology, signal controllers are far more sophisticated than most people realize. Not only are most able to avoid situations you describe by adjusting green intervals based on demand, they monitor gaps between cars (assuming proper detectors have been installed in the pavement) and try to avoid going yellow before the initial red-light queue has dispersed, and even reduce accidents by using information collected from the detectors to try to avoid going yellow when a car is in the "dilemma zone" where some drivers will hit the brakes and some will hit the gas. Also, most controllers are able to use several different timing plans based on time of day and day of week.

Again, properly optimized signals (and ours are fairly good locally) can make a huge difference. The work is highly cost effective and there are clearly defined standards for how to do it, but someone has to actually do it (and re-do it every few years as traffic patterns change). When it doesn't happen, we end up with the "D" grade we were recently assigned as a country. We need to push our elected officials to get it to happen in places where it hasn't.

...america is too dumb for round-a-bouts.

You were obviously not smart enough to stay since you are here and making such statements.



:flag:

We have one roundabout in my town. Its around our Courthouse downtown.

I haven't had a problem navigating it.:)

It depends on the local situation too. Around my rural high school, everyone was from the local area and understood local customs like pull-through parking, which driveway exited left and which one went right, and both cars going at the 4 way stopsign if there were no turns.

We could empty out the lot Fast, and the stopsign had almost no wait even when 1000 cars went through in 10 minutes.

Get near the city or a tourist, though, and everything comes to a grinding halt.

I guess everyone was more cooperative and aware since everyone knew who you were and where you lived.

I have a real axe to grind with roundabouts after watching numerous fenderbenders in one they installed in the front of NKU's campus. Nobody knows how they work and as a result they cause more trouble than they're worth.

I think all major roads should just be clear, and the minor road crossing it should have a yield sign. In the case of two similar roads have yield signs on all fours.

Hi,
Like all traffic control devices, so drivers can handle and others melt under pressure.
There are 2 roundabouts in New England that are a pain. If any of you has ever visited Cape Cod, you have see the mayhem.

These are not for the meek.

If you can drive in Boston or NYC, you can handle rotarys.

Roundabouts work well when they're well-designed & situated. Unfortunately, our state highway department imported the concept, but doesn't understand the purpose. They deliberately size them so as to slow down traffic flow...

Yeah, ok. Original post was about traffic lights and stop signs. I have complained long and loud to my own city and several surrounding towns about unsynchronized traffic signals (I live in Kansas City, Mo). I have been told that there will be a new system installed in the very near future called operation green light (OGL) in the greater metro which is supposed to involve synchronization, sensors and a manned traffic control center. I hope its as good as they say it will be. Now. I need some help. I'm a newbie and on this site I feel like I'm on a roundabout. I log in but sometimes it takes several tries before i'm really logged in. Anybody want to tell me if this is normal for this site? (No I am not senile). Second issue is I tried to write a new thread the other day and it didn't publish. Is there some magical formula here for when a newbie can write his own thread? Thanks for any help.

Did you check the "Remember me" box next to the login slot?

There are two 4-way stops near my location-these aren't traffic calming stops, but are at high traffic rural-turned-suburban road locations where I have to wave someone through or get waved through every 5th or so time. I like these much better than traffic lights because I can anticipate them-I never have to come to a full stop. I usually glide until the 1-2 cars lined up have left, and roll across the line at about 2mph as I wait for other traffic to go. It's a good system, and because there are left turn lanes and simultaneous movements I don't know how much more capacity a roundabout could give. Oftentimes there are 6 or more cars in the intersection at a time (people enter the intersection long before it's clear).

I disagree that Americans wouldn't understand roundabouts, because it's undoubtedly easier than a busy 4-way stop. Roundabouts would probably be better in lower traffic locations, because it removes the need to slow to a crawl (i mean stop).