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Just for fun I'll start a little thread over here about the
continuation of my journey beyond HF08. Right now I'm still
in Madison, having chosen to move from the Lake Farm campground
[which is pretty nice, except for those damn mosquitoes] to the
same Days Inn for a couple of days, mostly to have somewhere
with relatively reliable internet and catch up on stuff.
Yesterday on the recommendation of several folks I went and
walked around the state capitol building in Madison, and
yes, it's *gorgeous*. Pix at some point, yes. Madison seems
to be a pretty progressive town -- Priuses everywhere, people
on streetcorners with anti-war signs, etc. It's sort of like
Boston but less squeezed-together and with *much* cheaper parking.
.
This morning I'll be heading off toward South Dakota, but the
next major waypoint isn't available until late Thursday so I've
got plenty of time. On the way are things like seeing the
vanished Dells lake, the corn palace, and the Badlands. And
it's actually almost *chilly* this morning, a welcome relief.
.
So I own a scangauge now, and had a long discussion with Ron
about understanding some of the xgauge stuff. First off, with
the fuel percent offset of 3% that most Prius folks seem to
run, the SG and the car's iMPG are *way* off from each other.
I am finding that 1.5% makes them match a bit more closely,
although I'm also running a (-1) correction on speed due to
my slightly smaller Hydroedge tires and from there trying to
match the iMPG slightly *lower* than what the car says since
I know the MFD tends to be slightly optimistic. But I suppose
I'll see after a few tank cycles, unless anyone has any sage
advice for faster cross-calibration I can do while, say,
steady-state on the highway with my foot locked.
.
I also don't understand how a two-byte TXD invokes a CAN
passive listen -- it isn't in either the manual or the "xgauge
programming" PDF, and Ron couldn't explain it either. Are
we genuinely sure that it's a passive? Is the two-byte TXD
supposed to be the CAN ID we're looking for? How long does
the acceptance filter for the given xgauge have effect, since
we're theoretically looking for something we didn't actually
ask for via OBDII query and it may take a while to go by on
the bus [if at all]? I really want to see some *deep* tech
specs on this stuff, and a breakdown of *all* the bit fields.
.
With this in front of me under some more driving conditions
than my early testing with the autoenginuity widget, I now
understand what the whole business about 14 IGN is. As I
postulated back in the discussion thereof, as RPM goes lower
on a heavily-loaded engine the ignition point *must* move
closer to TDC to avoid having the combustion pressure pulse
peak too early and jam against the crank that isn't ready
to accept it yet. Generally, though, it's better to have
*advanced* ignition for best running fuel economy since you
get the most energy from the burning gases. What IGN14 and SHM
represents, then, is the lowest *RPM* you can bring the Prius
engine down to under load, i.e. that "virtual upshift" as
you bring your foot back and the eCVT is used to keep that
RPM in check, and the point at which the engine begins getting
less loaded as the throttle closes. It's a numeric picture
of the little "valley" between loaded/higher RPM and the
throttle closing toward idle where there's going to be much
less mixture and it's okay to fire it earlier. That's all it
is. It isn't any sort of magic running mode, it isn't lean-burn,
it's just the optimal conditions I was referring to in my talk --
high torque, and as low an RPM as you can get away with. In the
case of the Prius, the product of that torque * RPM produces barely
enough power to push air aside at 50 mph and you often have to let
the RPM creep up, whereupon the ignition is free to advance back
to where it should be just shy of knocking. One reason IGN
drifts around in modern cars is *because* the ECU is always listening
for the first hint of knock and backing off just shy of that. The
exact point may vary based on fuel, temps, ambient pressure/ humidity,
etc and the ECUs are pretty good at finding the best running
combination to handle it.
.
It is also good to try and make changes *slowly*, and let the system
adapt to things like a slightly changed foot position without going
into weird transients to make up for some kind of blip in a pedal
position. The Prius, for example, responds instantly to a pedal
change with battery current -- just a quick pulse to try and decrease
response time while the engine RPM changes more slowly to come up or
down to the new desired circumstances. Making that change more
slowly [unless you're looking for a radical change such as blipping
your low-speed pulse to make sure the engine comes back on] allows
the system to settle into what you want that much more easily.
Bottom line for a Prius on the highway is basically the lowest RPM
you can hold for a given desired travel speed, and try to not let it
get down into the unloaded region. And yes, full load *is* put on
the engine at a surprisingly low RPM sometimes, as Wayne has noted --
the range drifts up and down along with vehicle speed, in fact. At
60mph on the highway the low point where the "unloading" starts
happening is more like 1600 RPM, but that's already too high for
IGN14 to be appropriate and the lowest you'll see there is 16 or
*maybe* 15. I can watch this now in a variety of ways: low vacuum,
less ignition advance, and you *can* see this in LOD on the scangauge
on a Prius. Except that for my '04 that LOD figure is usually around
48 - 50, and most other Priuses it's up around 75 or 80 [someone
correct me pls]. That is simply due to a reporting bug in the early
'04 ECU, which I still have. I can live with that since it's all
sort of a relative figure -- the point is that LOD remains relatively
unchanged over a wide range of RPM, more proof that you can treat
the ICE pretty much as a constant-torque device in a Prius. Right
up on that BSFC mound as much as possible.
.
Anyways, I should quit typing and actually get my butt on the road
today... time's a-wastin' and it might be nice to make Minnesota
before nightfall. More stuff when I come within range of the
intertubes again. I'm sure I'll be able to make some more SG
observations in the interim.
.
_H*

Thread title works well with your username. ;)

Good stuff on the SHM observations. It seems to validate my belief that IGN14 just happens to correspond to low RPM while DWL, and my own preference to watch the latter on the highway. Part of that is due to a limitation of CAN-View; IGN is available only on a text screen rather than the preferred (for me) graphics screen. But choosing one over the other hasn't noticeably affected results.

Hobbit,

Glad you enjoyed downtown Madison. Thought you might! :) Once you live here, it's hard to leave...

~Linda

Glad to hear the updates. Look forward to pics on techno-fandom. Did you get any YouTubes of your presentations?

...So I own a scangauge nowFantastic. I can't even begin to imagine what you'll uncover with more gauges ;). Can't wait...

I also don't understand how a two-byte TXD invokes a CAN
passive listen -- it isn't in either the manual or the "xgauge
programming" PDF, and Ron couldn't explain it either.The zip file I posted in the files section has the XGauge how-to PDF which explains some of it. The PriusChat thread talks about the bit 3 inversion (I think) required. I tried to cover it all in This Thread (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12851)

Are
we genuinely sure that it's a passive? Is the two-byte TXD
supposed to be the CAN ID we're looking for?Well kinda. You take the CANID then you invert bit 3 (most significant bit of least significant nibble). You only do this for TXD, on the matching you use the "real" CANID.

How long does
the acceptance filter for the given xgauge have effect, since
we're theoretically looking for something we didn't actually
ask for via OBDII query and it may take a while to go by on
the bus [if at all]?It will wait forever as far as I can tell. Most of this can traffic happens at a rate of 10-20 frames per second, so you rarely have to wait long. The updates happen at frame-rate speeds, so you get sub-second response time with passive snooping. Atilla's Exel sheet (linked in my XGauge Thread) shows the framerates.

I really want to see some *deep* tech
specs on this stuff, and a breakdown of *all* the bit fields.Between the XGauge Programming PDF and the PriusChat Thread mentioned in my XGauge thread, you should get a pretty good bitmap. Carl can jump in with any gray areas that you might find.

PS... I've got what I think is MG1 / MG2 RPM to code up, so more XGauges are coming.

11011011

I have landed temporarily in Rapid City, SD. In the process of getting
here, I stopped and/or toured a number of places along the way, none
of which will be fully described here but wait for the full writeup
with the usual pile of pictures.
.
I checked out Lake Delton, or the lack thereof, as suggested by some
of the HF staffers I ran into at breakfast. Pretty impressive, and
it's going to take a while for that place to recover. Undaunted, the
duck-boat tours are still running around. Up the road toward the
Dells proper, I briefly checked out the Mt. Olympus amusement park.
.
I found a minor backroad just after crossing the great divide,
and essentially took the Prius up a thousand feet of off-roading.
.
I discovered that Minnesota has some serious clue about windmills.
.
I found the Jolly Green Giant.
.
I saw a lot of weird farm equipment and odd lawn art.
.
The guy that heads up installing the artwork on the walls of the
Corn Palace showed me a bunch of internal info about how it's
constructed and how he has vastly streamlined the process.
.
Presho, SD really is the middle of frickin' nowhere, but I nonetheless
overnighted there.
.
It is astounding that people hay fields and anywhere else that
grass grows and create *thousands* of those big round bales, and
then just leave them there. I wonder if the density of bales and
the color of new growth in each field create pixels, all of which
spells something or shows a picture from outer space.
.
The definition of "prairie" must be "wishing really hard that the
trees would come back".
.
I did the obligatory, albeit brief, stop in at Wall Drug because
they really do have five cent coffee.
.
The Badlands are totally amazing.
.
Interior and Scenic SD are basically ghost towns.
.
The Prius dashboard builds up a *lot* of internal heat during a
sunny day, but I found that the "recirc" setting seems to pull air
from inside the dash somewhere and exhaust it out the vents, which
with the rest of the car opened up helps push the built-up heat
out of there.
.
At the Rapid City regional airport I spotted a big "welcome
bikers" sign, as Sturgis is only a few miles up the road and
I guess not everyone iron-butts it in for Bike Week. Such signs
are everywhere around town, in fact. We need Hybridfest to grow
to that scale, but without the Budweiser sponsorship!
.
Gasoline is not *nearly* expensive enough around Rapid City,
because all the local rednecks still drive like it was 39 cents a
gallon. Uphill. Speaking of uphill, last night at about 4000
feet I had to bleed some air out of the Thermarest because it
was very, uh, turgid. Hmmm, maybe I should check the tires...
.
I got a tankful of *85* octane here, and it didn't have the 10%
ethanol label on that pump. It'll be interesting to see what
the MPG for this tank winds up being.
.
Not sure if I'll have time to hit Rushmore or Crazy Horse, but
I'll figure that out in the next day or so. Right now I'm within
a day of Denver but we'll just ignore that for now since I have
nothing to do there yet. For the near term, I'm going to hang
with a FOAF and hike the canyon behind his house.
.
I've tried to crank on pix and pages in the evenings, but I've
just been so tired from the day that I basically conk off pretty
soon after pulling in for the night. The crew quarters in the
good ship Golfcart are very comfy.
.
I'll try wrapping my brain around the xgauge stuff more later;
right now I'm just trying to get the MPG figures to match which
is being kinda squirrely.
.
_H*

Y'all that occasionally might dip into the lolcats site (http://icanhascheezburger.com/) might
appreciate this:
.
http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/pix/hf08/tn/499nothypr.jpg
.
That's from fairly early on the trip, I'm not even through HF in
the pix-processing slog yet so today's hike up a gorgeous canyon
in the Black Hills will take a while to get to...
.
Probably will return to the road again tomorrow, with quick passes
through a couple of the other local tourist traps and then get
busy on the westward stuff.
.
_H*

I've landed at a little motel about 30 miles shy of Mt. St. Helens.
Tomorrow I'll go see that, hopefully briefly, and then the Pacific
will be within sniffin' distance.
.
It's interesting to see Sturgis in the process of gearing up for
Bike Week, setting up merch tents and spiffing up truck trailers
that loudly advertise liquor and already dealing with quite a few
customers at the roadhouses. After all, Harleys *are* powered
by ethanol...
.
The path to here certainly had its moments. One challenge became
to make it out of Montana without going stark raving mad, but then
I did so via Rt. 12 out of Missoula which wound up being a somewhat
stranger trip than I expected. When a sign says "last gas for
90 miles" and you're heading into mountains, a little adjustment
is necessary. What a 90 miles it was -- curve after curve around
rocky outcrops and river bends, first grinding my way up over Lolo
Pass which didn't take long but then down the other side, along
what becomes the Clearwater River, was an absolutely endless
exercise in low-RPM thresholds, warp-stealth with zero battery
current, and undivided attention to the road in case another
Megacade road-sofa bike came at me leaning a bit too far over
the centerline. And it went on for over another 100 miles after
passing the next little knot of civilization [where there *was*
gas, a relief for me being on the last pip by then], slowly
still working its way down the west slope of the Rockies ridge.
.
I wound up overnighting in some free RV-parking spots at the back
of the town park in Kamiah. Long story how I found that.
.
Finally clear of the national forest boundary, it was back to
no-trees land through the rest of Idaho but still with IMMENSE
hills all around. Up and over one or two revealed an almost
table-flat horizon, and that those huge grassy/rocky mounds
are actually all part of enormous river cuts from long long
ago. Now they're filled with rivers of wheat, not water.
.
I met up with Billy near his town of Kennewick, and we had
lunch and chatted for quite a while. He's dead right about
how the treeless, sun-baked "western" environment gives way
to something completely different almost at a knife-edge
over the Cascades, as I tooled along 84 toward Portland. So
now I've got trees again, and am happier. The run down 84
was behind a Swift truck that was either speed limited to 56
or with a very clueful driver; I suspect the latter because
even when things got a little tight at on-ramps I didn't see
it tailgate but rather try to move over and give room. With
my MPG average rapidly heading toward sub-50 territory against
the pounding headwind I simply gave up on trying to push too
hard against it, and got into a groove of the lower speed and
maybe a little distant-draft benefit although I was never any
closer than 4 or 5 seconds. The other issue was that the
pavement in the right lane is quite rough in the truck ruts,
and I had to actually ridge-ride a bit to get a smoother surface.
That's unusual; I've more often seen it the other way around
where the truck ruts are a smoother surface but make for
slightly trickier steering. That Swift driver was probably
wondering WTF I was up to for the three hours or so that this
went on. With the spacing, ridge-riding, and cross-gusts, all
this required quite a bit of attention but around me I could
still see that the Cascades and river valley going by are
absolutely stunning.
.
Oregon and Washington have serious clue about windmills and
hydro, from a while ago, in contrast to how Minnesota is just
getting going on a lot of it. It's really inspiring to see
that many of them peppering the hilltops, lazily waving their
huge arms around in a sort of unidirectional synchronized-
swimming type dance but with the force of how the wind howls up
the Snake River valley, you know there's nothing lazy about it
and some *serious* zoobs are being produced.
.
The car is very dirty right now. Been doing quite a few more
gravel roads than I expected, -- every so often a little
exploration opportunity pops up and a good proportion of the
side stuff in the smaller towns isn't paved. And the nose is
like a quarter inch thick in bugs.
.
At this point I'm going to skip the farthest-NW-corner of
Washington state and start heading south to hook back in toward
the east, because last night I started realizing that I just
don't have that many days left before having to be at the next
event. Heck, I could spend 2 weeks just tooling around the
hills I saw today and probably not get tired of it, but duty
will call soon.
.
_H*

Hey, just curious -- what will be your return route when you get back close to the Right Coast?

Oh, and forgot to mention yesterday -- about as soon as I passed
a sign saying "Seattle" and got on I-5 heading north, it started
raining. Otherwise, I've been pretty lucky on weather, and it's
been [I'm told] uncharacteristically nice and cool over the last
couple of days.
.
JimboK -- not sure on return route yet. Probably not as far
southeast as where you are, since by the time I get done with
the convention in Denver it'll probably be high time to get my
wandering butt home again. But it's still somewhat open.
.
_H*

My parents are @ Sturgis now...this is the 7th year in a row.

Stay safe on your trip Hobbit.

Ryan

Well, the light's on for you if you happen to wander this way.

Jim, if you're itching for some face to face hypermiling discussions, let me know. ;)

Today at 5:30 PM local time, I made it to the Pacific.
.
http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/pix/hf08/nw/886pac8.jpg
.
_H*

Beautiful pic, as always, hobbit!

I have a great new small sticker for the back of the car, which
says "I survived Highway 50, america's lonesomest road" or
some such. It ain't kiddin', and I've got pix to prove it.
.
The webpage set will contain a rather terrifying story involving
wild horses and a semi.
.
I *almost* reached Denver, but about 15 miles out I-70 coming
over the last pass got totally packed up with everyone returning
from various mountains-n-beyond trips. Just like I-93 coming
back into Boston from the White Mountains back home! I landed
at a small motel in Georgetown, still up at about 9000 feet, and
got one of their last three rooms.
.
Denver drivers are bloody *rude*. They all have to somehow prove
how they can blast their smoke-belching Powerstrokes up all the
hills at full bore, with the boat or ATV trailer in tow, and
of course today they did that on the up and then joined the
very long brakelight snake creeping down the other side at 4 mph.
Like all that reckless endangerment got them anywhere. And of
course everyone's *idling* all the way down this mess, which is
all quite consistently downhill and if *half* of these numbnuts
actually just turned off their engines and enjoyed the ride we
could tell the middle east to go pound sand, literally. Even
with all the serious ups and downs of today I'm showing just
over 60 MPG on today's tank, mostly drained now. None of the
gas stations in town here have regular at the moment, the
truck can't get here through the backup!
.
Utah and western Colorado are really amazing, even just from
I-70. There are undoubtedly plenty of interesting byways, too.
Micro-review is this: I'd like a double helping of rocks in rock
sauce, please, with a layer of shaved rock and rock sprinkles
and a couple of rocks on top.
.
Tomorrow I try hooking up with some locals and figure out where
to squat until the 5th, when I probably drop out of sight for
a few days to do the convention (http://denvention.com/).
.
_H*

Still in Denver, which I did indeed reach okay. Worldcon went
reasonably well, and the car's been parked in a semi-burb for
free, thanks to a FOAF who lives there. Today is a bit of
loadout and then I find my way back there, and will soon be on
the road back east. It remains to be seen how many more fun
little ratholes I'll find while in transit, but overall I think
it's time to get my butt back home...
.
_H*

Man, I'd bet not too many people here can say they've stayed a night in Presho, SD. But you and I are both in that club ;-)

Heh, that's interesting. One of the fun pix from Presho is me
having to stop for a guy driving a full-size *combine* down the
main drag of town. You'll see it in the writeup eventually.
.
I finally cleared the Denver area this morning, and made it past
Kansas City [both of them] before pulling in. Had another little
wind-turbine adventure today -- looks like Kansas is in the
process of getting clue about renewable energy, although they
may have located the farm too far eastward. I fought a vicious
side/front crosswind along I-70 for a while today, but still
came out of it with a 62.something tank and the current one is
showing 63 and change so far. I'm back down to more normal
altitudes for the moment, and it's really nice to have *normal*
warp-stealth available instead of having to baby the battery
current just under zero to prevent ICE re-light like I've gotten
really good at over the past couple of weeks.
.
I finally remembered to poke at the "fillup" area of the
Scangauge, and it seems to be counting my real-life gallons
fairly well so far. This is giving me an offset factor of
1.5, which is not what most people seem to be running in Priuses
but which seems to make everything match better in my case
[which may or may not be affected by the -1 correction in
speed, aka the effect of the slightly smaller Hydroedges].
.
Next stop Indianapolis to see a friend tomorrow, and then it's
probably going to be a flat-out bust for home. It's time.
.
_H*

I've pulled into some random motel parking lot in mid-Pennsylvania
and jumped on their network, and I'm within a day's fairly
easy striking distance of HOME. It feels sort of weird. At
least I've got the trees back, after way too many miles of prairie.
.
All I have to do is evade the axe-murderer Schneider drivers...
they were fine in every other state but PA, where they're total
nutcases who aren't qualified to be within 50 yards of a truck
let alone at the helm of one.
.
_H*

Whereabouts in mid-PA?

... and now, I am back HOME!! I rolled in around 3:30 local
time today; the house is still standing and all. Wow. It felt
really weird to go past the sign saying "welcome to Massachusetts".
Had a nice spankin' tailwind most of today, and rolled in with
the car showing 64.8 average on something over 500 miles on the
tank. 8100 miles for the whole trip, and probably an average
of around 60 MPG -- haven't mathed it all out yet.
.
Car just turned 90,000 about 20 miles from home, too, and I got
a picture. Oddly, on the same stretch of 495 where I snagged it
turning 50,000 a while back. I wonder where 100,000 will happen?
.
Oph -- not sure where I wound up, lemme consult the GPS...
looks like near hwy 62 near Lock Haven or State College, where
I-80 dips down a little bit.
.
Now comes the huge processing and organization project. The
friend I visited in Indy thinks I should just write a book,
but it wouldn't have the same flavor [and clickable big-pix]
as a webpage does. There were many odd coincidences throughout
the trip, some visual and some otherwise, some of which are
in the pictures and some of which were just scribbled down,
and many others that I just plain failed to capture at all and
may or may not remember. Like the amusing juxtaposition of a
"jesus loves you" billboard and a large "adult bookstore" sign
seen from the highway. I almost went back for that one.
.
_H*

That's a shame. I would've sent you over to Penn's Cave if you were that close to Lock Haven. It's only about 10 miles off the Loganton Exit on I80. Oh well, maybe next time.

I'll likely be heading back out to PA for the Kempton energy/earth
fest in another month or thereabouts, so I might be able to hit
a couple of attractions in the process... although after doing
Luray a couple of years ago, any other cave seems like sorta
small potatoes. Unless it's a non-tourist oriented one that you
actually get to *explore* and get wet and dirty in the process.
.
_H*

Nah, it's just a boat ride through the caves. It's cool about once a decade ;). If you're heading to the same Kempton that I'm familiar with - near Hamburg, or Schuylkill Haven, PA - there's a conservatory called Hawk Mountain that's part of the Appalachian trial. It's worth seeing. There's also a great volunteer railroad in Kempton that runs on the weekends. And heck, you'd be fairly close to Knoebels Grove, depending on how you were to come in. The railroad info is here (http://www.kemptontrain.com/). I would think there'd be only one Kempton, PA, but I could be wrong.

I'll likely be heading back out to PA for the Kempton energy/earth
fest in another month or thereabouts, so I might be able to hit
a couple of attractions in the process... although after doing
Luray a couple of years ago, any other cave seems like sorta
small potatoes. Unless it's a non-tourist oriented one that you
actually get to *explore* and get wet and dirty in the process.
.
_H*

Now that I live in PA and I didn't come to HF08 this year, if you have a booth at the fair, I'll come and visit you :)

Ah, most definitely hit up the volunteer railroad... and Hawk Mountain as well. Who knows, if this job for Harrisburg goes through, I may be back in the Schuylkill Haven, Minersville, Pinegrove area again come that time.

The first writeup section [of *seven*!] is just about done, and
here's a preliminary version (http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/pix/hf08/prelim.html) of part 1 for y'all that were at
or following Hybridfest. I may have gotten a few things wrong
so please help me correct them for the final public version.
The remaining sections are still in the works and not up yet.
.
_H*

I just had to comment - I saw "there and back again" and the last post was by Hobbit - too coincidental not to say something! Sorry - nothing substantial to add to the discussion....

Great writeup ... pics, anyway. Haven't read most of the text yet, but I had to chuckle at the Triple Crown driver telling you you're #1 in his life. You DID send them the pic, didn't you? I'd love to be a fly on the wall when the boss confronts him with it.

Oh, and BTW -- unattended exact change toll booths are not unique to IL.

Today at 5:30 PM local time, I made it to the Pacific.
.
http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/pix/hf08/nw/886pac8.jpg
.
_H*This picture brings back memories....somewhere I have a similar one with my old 88 CRX HF

The old thread still seems the appropriate place to drop this:
I finally finished the big ol' writeup, available here (http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/pix/hf08/).
Full of external links to supporting sites/material, lessons
learned both about and by truckers, ponderings on traffic
dynamics, praise and profanity, and plenty o' pix.
.
You didn't want to watch big burly guys crashing into each other
over a piece of leather today anyway, right?
.
_H*

Great pics :)

hobbit, I greatly enjoyed both the scenic photos and the driving tips/experiences. I have been to many of the places at one time or another and the pics and text brought great memories.

Having spent all but 3+ years of life in OK, TX, and KS, it is interesting to see the west through Boston eyes. The cadence of oil wells was a constant growing up, like air or water (or sagebrush). Me, I get hives whenever I see a sign that says South to New York City. Just ain't right.

I must start packing a camera... thanks.

If you want more pictures of barns in the process of falling down, there are plenty here in VA. I can recommend some quite scenic routes next time your down here.

Wow hobbit... a long read but really worth the time. Thank you :D