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Wayne Gerdes - CleanMPG.com (www.CleanMPG.com) - February 26, 2006

Hi All:

___Although the following article is not exactly what CleanMPG’s mission is about, I felt it might be helpful for the newer drivers amongst us …

___I recently read of a hybrid driver being pulled over by the California Highway Patrol for not having the HOV lane stickers even though he did. I recently heard from a friend who panicked and attempted to evade police in his early driving days. Not only did it cost him a fortune, he totaled his car in the accident afterwards. I have friends that are EMS personnel and have seen members of their own district hit and killed by a driver evading police. There are many horrific accidents caused around the country by someone who simply panicked when being hailed to pull over by a State Trooper. Who hasn’t been pulled over or even driven past a state trooper at one point or another and felt a sense of dread let alone panic when the officers lights are lit up ... With that, I visited a Wisconsin State Patrol office a few miles to the north of me and picked up a brochure I thought was well written as to what to expect.

Wisconsin State Patrol
Guidelines for motorists who are pulled stopped by the State Patrol.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/506/Wi_State_Patrol.jpg

Your Rights & Responsibilities

FAQ:

State patrol officers are highly skilled professionals who are trained to treat all motorists with respect and courtesy even under difficult and dangerous conditions.

Please remember that if you are cooperative and calm, a traffic stop will be less stressful and time consuming for you. Hare are some frequently asked questions about traffic stop procedures.

Q: Why do officers shine their lights into a car when stopping someone at night?
A: As a safety precaution at night, officers need to see what is inside the car.

Q: Why do officers sit in their car so long?
A: Using advanced communications technology, officers check your driving status and vehicle registration directly form their patrol cars. However, there may be some delays in transmission. Officers also must complete information regarding the traffic stop, which takes time. Please be patient.

Q: Why do other officers show up if I’ve been stopped only for a traffic violation?
A: Officers may back each other up (even when they are not requested) as an added safety procedure and as a courtesy to fellow officers.

Q: Are officers required by law to show me the reading on a radar or laser device?
A: No. In many cases, the officer does not lock in the radar or laser reading when identifying the vehicle and tracking its speed.

Q: Why are most State Patrol cars outfitted with video cameras?
A: Video cameras are a great tool to accurately and impartially record what happens during traffic stops and other enforcement events including the actions of the officers.

Q: Do State Patrol officers have a quota for issuing citations?
A: State Patrol officers absolutely do not have a quota for issuing citations. Furthermore, the State Patrol does not receive revenue from traffic citations. Most of the revenue generated by traffic goes to the county where the citation was issued and the states common school fund. Other citation assessments and fees help finance various state and country court and legal functions.

Q: I received a traffic citation and wish to contest it. What should I do?
A: You should follow the instructions listed on the citation. The State Patrol cannot reduce the forfeiture amount, lower the demerit, or dismiss the citation once it is issued.

Law Enforcement Profiling

“Profiling” by law enforcement officers means stopping motorists based on their race, color, or ethnicity instead of any observed violation of the law. The Wisconsin State Patrol does not tolerate racial profiling. It is against the law.

Through effective selection, education and training of its officers, the State Patrol has earned the trust of the citizens we serve regardless of their race, color, or ethnicity. To maintain our high standards of fairness and professionalism, the State Patrol is vigilant in preventing any form of racial profiling.

If you sincerely believe that you have been treated unfairly by a State Patrol officer because of your race, color, or ethnicity:
You may contact the State Patrol district office listed on the back of this pamphlet. Please contact the district office as soon as possible after the stop.

You should retain any documents you have been issued and give a detailed statement of your concerns to the district office.
Please remember that if you make a false report, you may be charged with a crime. (s.946.66(2), Wisconsin Statutes.

The goal of the State Patrol is to improve highway safety through education, voluntary compliance, and enforcement.

Get to your destination safely …

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/506/Wi_State_Patrol_Ambulance_Inspection.jpg

Make sure all occupants are buckled up at all times. Children under the age of 4 must be in a child seat.

Don’t drink and drive More then 40% of all fatal crashes are alcohol related. If you drink, use a designated driver.

Obey posted speed limits. Speeding tickets are expensive and may increase your insurance rates.

If you see a law enforcement or emergency services vehicle on the shoulder with its lights flashing, move over a lane on a multiple-lane road (if you can safely do so) or slow down to provide a “Safe Zone” that protects the officer or emergency services worker. On a 2-lane road, slow down to provide a “safe zone”.

Minimize distractions when you’re behind the wheel. Cellular phones and other devices make it hard to concentrate on driving.
Our Mission

To promote highway and public safety and to enhance the quality of life for all Wisconsin citizens and visitors by providing and supporting professional, competent and compassionate law enforcement services.

Our Vision

People serving people with dignity and respect … enhancing a quality highway safety environment.

The Wisconsin State Patrol is a division of the department of transportation.

In Memoriam:

Trooper Deborah M. McMenamin
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/statepatrol/images/memorial-d-mcmenamin.jpg

Trooper McMenamin was killed October 26, 1989 when she was struck by a passing motorist while talking to a motorist she had stopped for a traffic violation. She had talked with the driver and was returning to her squad car when she was hit. Despite the efforts of several officers and nurses who were at the scene, Trooper McMenamin did not survive. She attended the State Patrol Academy in 1985 and started as a trooper in the Waukesha District. She later transferred to the Tomah area and then to the Eau Claire area. Trooper McMenamin was 31 years old at the time of her death. She was married (her husband is an Executive Officer in State Patrol) and had a son from a previous marriage.

Trooper William Schoenberger
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/statepatrol/images/memorial-w-schoenberger.jpg

Trooper Schoenberger died April 22, 1993 from head injuries sustained on April 17, 1993 when his squad car was struck from behind by a semi-tractor trailer. Trooper Schoenberger was on the scene of a car fire at the time and had positioned his car in the traffic lane to protect fire department personnel. Trooper Schoenberger joined the Wisconsin State Patrol in 1984, and spent all of his 8-1/2 years in the Eau Claire and Chippewa Falls area. At the time of his death, he was 31 years old and was married with one daughter.

___God Speed to those officers who have lost their lives during the performance of their duties …

___Good Luck

___Wayne

OK so thats pretty much how all law enforcment agencys approach there abliity to act like Nazi Storm Troopers in most of there contact with the public. They think there special and have laws promoteing your guilty until you prove your inocent. Try putting your video camera on them while they film you. They get really nasty real fast. They dont answer questions. And yes Ive asked for the radar spot... They claim they dont have to show you. hence,, so in the long run I havent had a ticket since 27 years of age. You have to stand up to these cops and be willing to take afew lumps. I have no love for law enforcement. I truley have no need for them. Not once have they recoverd something stolen from me. Caught anybody that has vansalized my car or home. Or tried to steal a car from me. I have friends that went into law enforcement as adults only to have to quit when the true reality of there choice came up to be a big lie. And the dead reckoning of there choice had basicly ruined there life.

If your pulled over for something you truley did wrong,,, take your pusniment and move on. I have. But if your pulled over for something you didnt do. Fight them tooth and nail and make darn sure you drag them into court.

I have been pulled over numerous times. I am always courtious because they are doing their job. Rarely do they give me a ticket. Maybe they feel relief that I am not going to be one of the combatative ones.

I highly recomend being courteous. It works wonders. What reason do they have to not give you a ticket if you are combatative?

Psyshack. Police aren't robots made in some secret lab. They are people doing a job and have friends and family like you and I. They just want to put in a days work and go home.

How would you feel if you were at work and a majority of your interactions with people were hostile? I think sometimes you might get a little annoyed and immediatly think the worst of them. I don't think its any different for police. So lighten up be nice to them and you might find that they can be nice back.

I've also been pulled over a number of times, but only a couple of times they were abrasive. One time I passed a busy cop and honestly did not know he was pulling me over or that I went straight in a right turn lane. The other I was threatened with a ticket before I could say I was seeing the doctor for my vertigo - he must have assumed I was drunk. :(

The vast majority of the time I was clearly guilty of speeding or some other offense.

Well, here's my 2-cents;

I am taking the (Nice) way with them myself. I just try to keep in mind how I would feel if I was in their shoes. Not a very fun job/career to be in.

Anyone else been in the Military? I was an went to Viet Nam and did as I was told to do. Now you may be thinking? What has this got to do with the State Police article? The public judged us and we were doing what we were told to do. The same for the Law Enforcement personnel, they do as they are directed and no matter which way they do it, they are viewed by many in an unkind way. The same as myself and others that were sent to Viet Nam and came back to the USA. Not exactly what I would call a Very Warm Friendly Welcome.

So I will give the other guy a Brake and be Nice. :)

Could you get upset with this guy (http://donknotts.tv/index1.htm)?

Could you get upset with this guy (http://donknotts.tv/index1.htm)?
Delta;
Your alright. :) We were just discussing him today at the office.

Terry

Thanks, for the Link :cool:

I drove thru this crime sence this week after a Arkansas State Trooper shot a guy for not showing his hands. No pepper spray was used, no other tatics where used. State Trooper just basicly point blank shot him with a shot gun. he was mentaly ill. they where looking for a escape from Michigan. This wasnt him.

http://www.kfsm.com/Global/story.asp?S=4605342

This is the guy they where after. He had thrown down his gun when he ran into the Wal-Mart. They naturaly shot him also.

http://www.kfsm.com/Global/story.asp?S=4597215&nav=menu151_1

What to do in Arkansas? Hope your guns bigger and fires faster than the cops weapons.

I'm not about to give law enforcement a carte blache for everything they do - one pullover I experienced was questionable. I will ask: "what if it was you pulling over" a driver that looked like he was violent and unresponsive?" Don't assume the story gives the complete picture. Yes, he might have been better off getting another trooper, etc....but he had only seconds to make a decision. A case could be made for allowing this suspect to drive. As far as I'm concerned, there are a lot of sane people with normal IQs that drive so poorly their licenses should be removed until they get their act together.

Consider that a law enforcement career does not last too long if you shoot many suspects without good reason.

I don't have a problem with the law enforcement community, as they have never given me any problems. Not always helpful, but so far never harmful, either. In fact, I can't even count the number of times I have been clocked up to 10mph over the limit and ignored for whatever reason. (I've never been a "slow" driver on the highway and hope to kick that bad habit.)

What I do have a problem with is the system of putting drivers on the road after a largely insufficient education and then depending on the police to devote large quantities of time to fining us into submission. I always hear that "speed kills" and I grant that it plays a role in far too many accidents. But is speed really the route cause of the accident? No. It is poor decision making. I really wish that we would find a way to help drivers set higher standards for themselves.

Just a ballpark guess, but I may have been pulled over and issued a ticket as many as 15 times in my life for a moving violation. :o That only once I thought they were less than professional is a pretty good record.

BTW, all but a couple of those tickets were back in the 1900's....

I have been pulled over numerous times. I am always courtious because they are doing their job. Rarely do they give me a ticket. Maybe they feel relief that I am not going to be one of the combatative ones.

I highly recomend being courteous. It works wonders. What reason do they have to not give you a ticket if you are combatative?

How would you feel if you were at work and a majority of your interactions with people were hostile? I think sometimes you might get a little annoyed and immediatly think the worst of them. I don't think its any different for police. So lighten up be nice to them and you might find that they can be nice back.

Had to reiterate this. Excellent advice, and while being pulled over isn't the most pleasant experience (delaying your driving, public humiliation, decreasing your MPG ;) ) it is the officer's job to do so. Rarely is someone pulled over without a reason, and when it happens, usually you've heard about it from the individual that was stopped and feels wronged by the police.

I too have been pulled over several and only received 3 tickets, all three of which were deserved. The other (4-5) times, I was polite and always respectful to the officer. Once I handed the cop an umbrella, as it was raining. I got a verbal warning that time. :p

As you are being pulled over, be mindful of where you do it. First, always acknowledge the officer with either a blinker, slowing down, or some signal. Then, even if you have to travel a bit, attempt to get off the main road. If you are on a highway, the shoulder may be your only option. Get over as far as possible. However, if you are on surface streets, find a sidestreet, parking lot, etc. I watched a pickup truck pull over in the right lane of a 4-lane road a week ago (no shoulder, curb, sidestreet less than 100 ft. away) and completely block up traffic. That's no good, and will probably irritate the officer or make them request that you move.

Always let the officer know what you are doing. Gentlemen, if you are going for your wallet, tell the officer what you are doing, only use one hand, and move slowly. Remember, the officer cannot see what you are doing, and slow, defined movements allow them to observe that you are, in fact, not drawing a firearm on them. Same goes for the glove box, anything under a seat, etc.

Chat with them! Honestly, they're people as well, and can be quite friendly. Another cop who pulled me over noticed I was a student of the same college his son had applied to by my parking sticker. We talked for about 10 minutes about it, afterwards, he just told me to "slow down a bit."

All of these tickets were in my youth, at 21, I haven't been pulled over in years, due to rising gas prices causing me to slow down my driving. I guess my best advice? Keep it to 5 over! You'll save gas, ticket costs, and other various unforeseen costs of high speed and aggressive driving.

Then again, I guess I'm preaching to the choir here. :D

johnf514;

Hello and you may be roght in (Your) statement? Then again, I guess I'm preaching to the choir here.

Hey it's great reading though and I'll give you this. It even makes good sense. :D

For some reason, I always get jittery, nervous, and excited when I get pulled. Couldn't tell you why. Hasn't gotten my searched yet, but I'm sure it will someday.

BTW, only been pulled thrice, never gotten a moving violation. Came out of them with two fix-it tickets and a verbal warning. Considering the first two times were in Mustangs I'm surprised I got off so lightly.

Actually, I'm surprised I dodn't get pulled more often...cops used to pull u-turns and hang out on my fender WAITING for me to do something wrong. Can't blame them, wouldn't you look long and hard at a teenager in a loud '68 Mustang?

But, I do know that cops here in Texas as well as Oklahoma and Kansas target folks driving at or under the speed limit. Apparently there's a major drug corridor there, and drug smugglers like to do the limit to keep under the radar...

Wow, you guys have been pulled over a lot!

I've only been pulled over once, by a state trooper on the last day of November 2001, for "reckless driving". The officer didn't believe that my ID was mine, and kept asking me my country of origin. Seriously, it took over half an hour before he got back to me with my drivers license after taking it. He quized me several times on my address, and where I grew up and on my parents identities.

I'm rather certain he was racial profiling, as he was sure I was from the middle east. (Also, my license didn't have my beard that I had grown that year.)

I was polite, courteous, and did everything he requested. I fought the ticket, and he didn't bother to show, so it was dismissed.

Somewhat annoyingly, the officer didn't show, so they went to recess to allow him a chance to show up. Over an hour later, they reconviened and dissmissed me. I had a written account of everything from when I had gotten home that night, printed out, along with a map showing the area were I was pulled over, a printout of the weather conditions, and was in a suit and tie, with a trenchcoat. Oddly enough, I was the only Defendant there in traffic court who had dressed as such, or had brought anything with them. So much for speedy and unbiased. I was pleased that I was let go, but annoyed that it seemed that they did everything possible to give the officer a lot of leeway, despite everything from the ticket to the writing on the doors states that "Failure on any parties behalf to show results in an immediate verdict."

Bah. Hopefully that'll be the last time too.

I certainly don't get stopped often but when I do I make sure to put both hands on top of the wheel where the officer can see them and I just sit there. And try to be as calm as I can. They can check out the plate but they don't know who is driving, so it must be a nervous time for them. I figure a relaxed cop is more likely to give me a break. I seem to get more warnings than tickets.

The few times I've been pulled over on my motorcycle it's been interesting to see the surprise on their faces when I pull off my helmet and they see a gray-haired guy, not a young sportbike dude. Got pulled over twice in Japan when I was riding there [I was not misbehaving that much: once was for 60kph in a 30kph=18mph=nearly-falling-over zone and once for a routine license check] and it was even more amusing to see their surprise at seeing a gaijin emerge.

Got three (!) tickets on my bicycle in my racing days. For running stop signs and lights (of course we looked both ways beforehand!). OTOH the Pasadena police didn't even look up from their coffee and newspapers when we ran the stop signs on our regular circuit around the Rose Bowl - even when motor pacing behind a scooter.

When I have gotten tickets I definitely deserved them so I guess I've been lucky in that sense.

I've only been pulled over once; I was traveling FAR over the speed limit, so I definitely deserved it. I was very polite to the police officer, and she told me that I should contest the ticket (since she wasn't going to just give me a warning, given the severity of the incident).

Went to court, and there she lowered it to "10 mph over the limit". Saved me from losing my driver's license for a year. If I'd have been combative on the scene there's no way that would've happened.

Another good experience with police:

I sometimes ride my bicycle to work when there's nice weather (infinite miles per gallon). One day during my ride a car started to tailgate me and blast its horn. I made a left turn, and got into the shoulder of the road; the car pulled up alongside me and the occupants rolled down the windows and were shouting various things at me. They pulled away to get onto I-95 South, and within 30 seconds a local police car pulled them over.

It's definitely good to have the cops show up when you need them.

I have no respect for Ohio Highway Patrol or Union Township (it's a small town on the east side of Cincinnati) cops. Myself and two buddies, we are outside this club, and they won't let us to use the toilets without paying. So the hell with it, we decide to go in the woods at the end of the parking lot. 2 in the morning, with nobody around, bam! Union Township cops. We tried being polite. No dice. All of us were written up on trumped up charges - disorderly conduct and indecent exposure. (Geez, it was 2 in the morning with nobody else around. Cut a man a break?)

No dice. All of us got dinged $250 a piece plus court costs (We all challenged, and lost.) They sure got their quotas.

And Ohio Highway Patrol: Driving through the Buckeye State on I-71 is like trotting the treadmill of boredom. No matter how far or how fast you go, the scenery never changes: Barn, corn, cop. Barn, corn, cop.

I drove thru this crime sence this week after a Arkansas State Trooper shot a guy for not showing his hands. No pepper spray was used, no other tatics where used. State Trooper just basicly point blank shot him with a shot gun. he was mentaly ill. they where looking for a escape from Michigan. This wasnt him.

http://www.kfsm.com/Global/story.asp?S=4605342

This is the guy they where after. He had thrown down his gun when he ran into the Wal-Mart. They naturaly shot him also.

http://www.kfsm.com/Global/story.asp?S=4597215&nav=menu151_1

What to do in Arkansas? Hope your guns bigger and fires faster than the cops weapons. Yep - generally they fire 3 warning shots to the head, before asking questions!!! :)

And be sure to watch this video too everyone. 45 minutes but well worth it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA

Remember you never have to admit your guilt, even if you're being nice to the cop. If he asks you how fast you were going don't answer.

I have only been pulled over twice, once for changing lanes too quickly I was told, and the second time, I was obviously speeding.

Both times I have been 100 percent cooperative and courteous with the officers. They are just doing there job!

The first time I was pulled over I was questioned and the officer swore I had been drinking, even though I hadn't been. Oh well, It's his job, he even made me take a breathalizer, but it's their job, I'd rather be questioned thoroughly and maybe even scrutinized some if need be. It makes us all safer.

The second time I was traveling WAY too fast in a car that wasn't mine, was my parents Lexus (you don't feel the speed in those like you to in a civic!). Either way, I was speeding, I admitted it; even though he asked me about six times if i new that I was going. I told him my story, I was 3 days late for a vaca with the rest of my family, and had to travel from boston to buffalo and back to boston, all to get a birth certificate in the town I was born so I could travel. He was considerate and friendly the whole time. My GF made fun of me for being too honest, but oh well, I have to live with my conscience.

So thats my story! sorry, not too exciting! I would like to add that I appreciate the police and all they do. It's their job, I have a cousin who has chosen this as his career, and wow can it be stressful. I grew up in the suburbs, never thought much about the police, but after purchasing my first home outside of the burbs in just inside of the neighboring city, I feel even more appreciative of the police around here.

Thats my two cents.

After a speeding stop I had to sit in a NH patrol car because of dead battery and he would not do the jump. It was darn cold so we waited for AAA in his car w/the heater on. I asked him how they calibrated the radar gun and he pulled a tuning fork out of the glove box. I thought that was pretty neat.

Anyway he was a nice enough fellow, except for the no jump start thing.

DAS

I'm sure that there are some that would suggest that wearing a particular hat and holding a particular facial expression while engaging the officer in a verbal battle of wits while possibly unarmed can be successful... at least in Wyoming ;) <SlowHands nods to BailOut>

Hi all
I am new to this site and the whole hybrid thing but I wanted to add to this thread. I have been a police officer on Long Island just outside New York city for over 17 years now. Without getting into a debate I just wanted to point out what I do when I get pulled over myself. I have always had dark tint on my cars so when I get pulled over I turn on my interior lights and roll down all my windows then I put both hands on the top of the steering wheel so the cops can see everything inside the car. The last thing I want is a nervous cop walking up to my car.
Barry

I'm sure that there are some that would suggest that wearing a particular hat and holding a particular facial expression while engaging the officer in a verbal battle of wits while possibly unarmed can be successful... at least in Wyoming ;) <SlowHands nods to BailOut>
It can also work to whip out an International driver's license, speak in a thick Swedish accent, and charm the officer into thinking you were confused about kilometers versus miles per hour. Probably helps to be female, blonde, Swedish, 6' tall, and beautiful. My then-GF demonstrated this in Arizona years ago. She spoke far better English than that in normal conversation. If I had been driving I definitely would have gotten a ticket.

Hi all
I am new to this site and the whole hybrid thing but I wanted to add to this thread. I have been a police officer on Long Island just outside New York city for over 17 years now. Without getting into a debate I just wanted to point out what I do when I get pulled over myself. I have always had dark tint on my cars so when I get pulled over I turn on my interior lights and roll down all my windows then I put both hands on the top of the steering wheel so the cops can see everything inside the car. The last thing I want is a nervous cop walking up to my car.
Barry

Barry, that is an excellent suggestion! I try to make my intentions and attitude as "transparent" as possible to others in most areas of my life, and this is a perfect fit with a high degree of logic in it. :D

Thank you!

Yeah, there is no reason to be bitter with these guys. I have had plenty of tickets and every single one was my fault. I have always acted cool with these guy and girls, and they have always realized that I was not going to be an offended bone head. So for 20 years or so of driving they have all been cool. But when someone who REALLY is evil is after you, you will be praying for a highly skilled cop to protect you . And they stop all those dealers and criminals. That's worth everything. Just watch trutv.com - all those traffic stops they do that end up in a haze of gunfire, and you will realize what is really going on, and you may relax and not feel so "victimized" by the "evil" police. The other poster was right. They are professionals who are regular people. Don't let the uniform influence your common sense. That would be us profiling them, which would be pretty silly, since we are complaining about it ourselves.

I've been pulled over quite a bit, some for good reason and i was not punished b/c the officers in a particular area are quite friendly. in not so friendly areas,...you get pulled over for driving a "different" car. apparently around the corner i clipped the yellow line, I was a bit focused on the guy tailgating me (who didnt get pulled over) so i may have, but that was the reason i got pulled over..and the tailgater in his cobalt went his way....that was the one time i thought it was unfair...every other time has been an ok experience...

I dislike the DMV....

My approach when stopped by police is to be cooperative and predictable. Think about it: the officer doesn't know whether you are an average Joe or someone who desperately doesn't want to be seen by a cop. Each stop for them can go from routine to extremely violent in an instant, so they have to be on guard.

I pull over, shut the car off, take out the keys and put them on the dash, take out my license and registration, roll down the window, and put BOTH hands on top of the wheel so the officer can see them as they approach the car.

I treat them as I do anyone else - no better, no worse.

In my experience, I've gotten the best treatment from State Troopers, who are always professional, and the worst from local police. The locals have sometimes been sarcastic and nasty, for whatever reason.

BTW: I've noticed that police have been practicing hypermile techniques for years - they always seem to be close-in drafting the car they are following....

The difficulty I have with Police in general is that they have become paramilitaries instead of civilian peace officers.

The difficulty I have with Police in general is that they have become paramilitaries instead of civilian peace officers.

Well, the mindset tends to change when the required "beat" uniform becomes black vest over blue shirt.

Also, coming back from school one day, I saw 4 cruisers just down the street doing a drug bust and one officer was putting his M-16 back in the trunk. I wasn't even going to stop to ask the time right about then. Sidearms, maybe. Carbines, no.

Psychaak,

I don't think you are being honest with yourself. You don't get in trouble or catch flak through no action of your own. You earn what happens most of the time.

I'm an LEO and things are a little different where I live so forgive that but I treat everyone good as long as I can until their attitude requires stepping up. Thats just me living in a small town in the middle of no where.

As far as media is concerned don't believe the hype. They have an entertaining/shocking story to sell and will sway the matter what ever way is appealing. That goes for all things.

No offense on the matter but if you aren't doing it don't ridicule.

fixedgear
In my experience, I've gotten the best treatment from State Troopers,
who are always professional, and the worst from local police. The locals have sometimes been sarcastic and nasty, for whatever reason.

agree for the most part..
then sitting in district court, the Bailiff at the start of the morning "You are all here because
you are PROBABLY GUILTY. If you are FOUND guilty, you must pay the fine and court costs immediately... etc..
Whatever happened to the Constitution and Bill of Rights - presumtion of INNOCENSE until PROVEN guilty ?? Maryland District Courts, everything taped..

Have been followed and stopped for no reason, in traffic, doing nothing - probable cause ?? or just hunting for an excuse ?? " unreasonable SEARCH" ??

SOME officers are there "to protect and serve " - MANY for the power trip and ego.
for Public Safety ???

I've met a lot of law enforcement through work and everybody I've met has been very nice on a personal level but just because you're nice doesn't make you good a specific job. Think about your own work place. How many nice people are there that don't have a clue what's actually going on at work? I have been stopped by some very polite and friendly officers in my years on the road but I have come across the humorless jerks as well.

If you were speeding, just take your ticket and sign up for a DMV-approved driver improvement course so you can repair your driving score. Take your proof of enrollment or completion to court, tell the judge you were wrong and ask for leniency on the grounds of the course. Nothing is guaranteed but it can't hurt to try.

in defense of Arkansas I would like to point out that the officer that shot the handicaped young man lost his job and was punished for is actions.

Q: Do State Patrol officers have a quota for issuing citations?
A: State Patrol officers absolutely do not have a quota for issuing citations. Furthermore, the State Patrol does not receive revenue from traffic citations. Most of the revenue generated by traffic goes to the county where the citation was issued and the states common school fund. Other citation assessments and fees help finance various state and country court and legal functions.

They may not have a set number of citations they have to issue, but I'm sure their work performance is based on how many tickets they do issue. A local police officer was fired partly do to a low performance compared to others. In that the officer issued fewer citations than others. I'm sure an officer can't go out for their work shift & return saying they didn't see anyone braking a traffic law.

~ron~

Hi Ron:

___Very good point ...

___For all, remember that these guys at every traffic incident or stop have to consider having a gun going off in their face. Kind of like an Iraqi IED except the soldiers do not know its coming. Think about the stress they are under as they approach your vehicle no matter how law abiding and precautionary you are. It just has to be off the charts so with that in mind, turn on the lights and act very casually so as to give them some breathing room too.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

I know a few police officers, and sure performance is partly rated on tickets given / convictions. Two of the cops in particular have both received awards for their better than average performance... Guess what their 'claim to fame' tickets are? ... nope not speeders... DUI arrests! Now that's something we can all appreciate. One of them works in a relatively small community, maybe 10,000 people or so, and had over 35 DUI arrests in a month...scary to think about that.

What Wayne said... exactly.

As a LEO also, admittedly, like already posted there are some jerks around just like every other job there is out there.

Does "rudeness" or percieved rudeness account for most complaints, absolutley!!! But how do you investigate such complaints? Kinda hard when you have someone who may have been ticketed, who is angry and "may be playing an angle" hoping that if he complains about a good officer that maybe the ticket will disappear.

That's one of the reasons why car cameras which have been installed in cruisers can be a great independent witness to an encounter. Kinda takes the who are you gonna believe question out of the mix.

There are no quotas...job performance may be rated on the average established by your peers in some cases. For example if you all work the same shift and someone is writing 30 tickets a month and another officer has written 0.... kinda stands out that someone's a slug.

Reason's to not jump start a car as posted earlier... most Agencies prohibit it and I wouldn't jump someone in my own car because there is slight risk you may fry a car computer. Better to use a jumper pack and to keep one charged and ready in your own car so that maybe you can be the hero to someone with a dead battery.

Usually when I write a speeder...it's for going at least 15 over the posted limit....I don't even drive that fast w/o answering a call in a police vehicle (40+ in a 25 mph zone??? ), and certainly don't drive that fast in my own car...most of the people I stop are actually going at least 20 over!!

Some tips to take the edge off ?

1.) Signal, slow down, and pull over when safe to do so.

2.) Put down both windows if electric.

3.) Put your interior lights on, especially at night time.

4.) Don't start digging around your car for you cards until asked. (makes me nervous or suspicious of what you may be hiding or grabbing)

5.) Turn off your car.

6.) Keep your hands visible near the steering wheel.

Until we have made contact with you and even then sometimes, traffic stops are ALL considered an UNKNOWN RISK. Let's face it, we're a mobile society and criminals use cars to drive to "work" everyday.

And of course, if you think you were wronged by a citation, don't argue it on the scene, that's not the time or place, schedule a hearing and allow your complaints to be heard in court.

Thanks for weighing in on this, Five5 -- and welcome to the site!

Five5, thanks for the clarity you've provided. I was quite concerned reading an AOL report on what to do when you get pulled over. The entire article was how to avoid a ticket, while still speeding. All sorts of suggestions, like decreasing your chances of a speeding ticket by travelling in a pack, letting a "rabbit" stay ahead of you, hiding your radar detectors, etc. It was very depressing.

In that vein, I must ask you why you allow people to speed up to 25% above the speed limit, before you consider pulling them over (15/55=27). Isn't that the same as condoning breaking the laws? Doesn't that just encourage people to speed?

At that speed, 70 in a 55 zone, what about the poor soul who is only doing a legal 50 MPH. Now you have permitted a 20 MPH speed differential (which would only be a safe 5 MPH differential if the laws were enforced).

Thank KWJ,

In response to why I personally allow 15 is there are SO MANY speeders you kinda want to set the bar a little higher to the ones that are off the charts...and hopefully know it!

As a municipal cop in PA, we aren't authorized to use RADAR or LASER. We do use a variety of devices including stopwatches and VASCAR and ENRADD. Only the State Police can use RADAR/LASER in Pennsylvania.

Stopwatches and VASCAR to a degree have a chance of operator error, but an "error factor" formula can be calculated at the time of the trial to show how much of an error there could be. In short, the longer distance you are clocked.... 150 feet or more.... the smaller the error becomes...becoming almost mute.

ENRADD is a device that sits alongside the roadway and activates when a car passes through the device...the information is displayed on a control head in a car and the stop can be made.

One very big caution that people have to be aware of when I say that we give 10 over...don't drive 7 or 8 mph over the speed limit and think that your okay. Speedometers in cars are not calibrated for accuracy and modifications such as different size wheels and tires can certainly change your initial factory "accuracy."

The speed timing devices we use in PA are all tested every 60 days by a third party company for accuracy and in addition are self calibrated by officers prior to each use.

BTW, in most cases unless you were driving reckless or going a ridiculous speed, I myself, normally don't decide if I'm going a write a ticket until I have that first contact with you. When I ask someone if they knew why I was stopping, I like a little honesty and maybe a smile, saying "yeah, I was going a little faster than I should have." Usually someone who I clocked doing 45 in a 25 and passing every car, including mine...., who can't understand why he got stopped....will get a ticket.

Stay safe guys...

Thank you for your efforts in a thankless profession, Five5!! It is sad that you are overwhelmed by the sheer number of people exceeding the limit. It makes your job that much more difficult and dangerous. :ccry:

Your input is valuable and we appreciate the time you've taken to share with us!

I ditto what Right Lane Cruiser has said. We know you have a tough job, and we really do appreciate what you do. I cheer everytime I see a trooper pull over a speeder. I think the speeders are making the highways quite dangerous.

I also move out half a lane or more as I go by, and I try to see if the trooper is having any problems. If so, I'd pull over a bit ahead, and use my cell phone to call #77 or 911.

I'd hope that just grabbing the "rabbits" would change things, but years ago 5 MPH was allowed. Now it is 10 MPH or more. That doesn't seem to be producing the change I'd like to see. What about getting huge fines levied? Gov. Glendinning requested $1,000 fines for exceeding 65, but the legislature shot that down (fraidy cats).

Hi Five5:

___Great to have you onboard! You did not happen to clock a Prius on I-80 two weeks ago going between 49 and 55 mph in a RR in the far right lane heading towards NY City, did you ;)

___And thanks for the insider reply! The next time I am pulled over for going to slow, I will say, “I know I was going a little slow” :)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

I'd hope that just grabbing the "rabbits" would change things, but years ago 5 MPH was allowed. Now it is 10 MPH or more. That doesn't seem to be producing the change I'd like to see. What about getting huge fines levied? Gov. Glendinning requested $1,000 fines for exceeding 65, but the legislature shot that down (fraidy cats).

The fines in PA are already pretty bad... i.e, going 45 in a 25 is about a 159.00 total ticket. The fine is only like 61.00 but the remainder is basically tax collection for the State. And for those of you who might be interested, only half of the fine for that ticket $30.50 is sent back to the municipality's general fund.

There are some people who think that writing tickets like that fund a police department or town but you aren't even gonna come close to it with 30.50 out of 159.00....an urban myth in PA. Especially when you calculate about 20 mins to write a ticket...I get paid about 30.00 an hour....if I go to court on my day off it's one hour of double of time....so you see you can go into the hole quick!

I know and almost all of us know that there are MANY folks out there who appreciate what we try to do for them. We also know that while the majority of folks are satisfied with us, the majority is normally what we like to call the "silent majority." It's usually the "vocal minority" of citizens who are able to grandstand and help the media sell papers, so we take most of it in stride. But all of it is worth it for that once in while "thank-you" we get from someone.

BTW, to tell you the truth, even when I give a ticket from someone, I can normally get the motorist to end the conversation with a "thank-you."

I have been stopped by an Arkansas State Trooper one time, and it was at a road block. I was driving a 1995 Chevrolet Corsica at the time. One officer shone their spotlight into my car and the other approached and was holding the flashlight in one hand while the other was checking for anything that might be hidden (when they approach from the side and they feel the cargo space or trunk of your car-that's what they're checking for...I know this because my dad is a crime watch coordinator and I grew up around law enforcement officers) and then he placed his hand near his firearm. My purse was in the backseat, so when the officer asked for my license and registration, I immediately told him where the purse was and he watched me but his hand moved away from the firearm and, after I showed him my license and registration he let me go on. Most of the time if you be courteous and honest with them, you won't have a problem.

Well, the mindset tends to change when the required "beat" uniform becomes black vest over blue shirt.

Also, coming back from school one day, I saw 4 cruisers just down the street doing a drug bust and one officer was putting his M-16 back in the trunk. I wasn't even going to stop to ask the time right about then. Sidearms, maybe. Carbines, no.

You think the gang bangers don't have ak's? I was a medic for 13 years and used to be on scene when "SERT" would be called in sometimes. No carbines huh? Maybe the video of the bank robbery in California needs to be played over and over again where the cops were under armed. Do you think drug dealers carry legally registered firearms? It's not like the officers were on a traffic stop with an automatic weapon.

I am all for responsible law enforcement. Remember you never know what kind of call the officer was on before he pulled you over. Maybe he was just involved in a struggle for his life a few hours earlier. That could well be the reason for being testy. It's not like an officer can get in a struggle with someone and then say "Man that was close. I think I'm going home for the night."

I'd rather have a proactive PD that a re-active one.

I had a bit of an odd experience a few weeks ago.

I was driving to the store with the girlfriend and came upon what from a distance looked like a sobriety check. When I got closer I counted 8 officers stopping cars coming both directions. It turned out that 4 officers would stop a set of 4 cars going one way while the other 4 officers stopped the cars coming the opposite direction. When our turn was up it ended up not being a sobriety check at all. The officer said they were conducting a drivers license and insurance check. He was polite and everything was fine, I had just never seen one of those before.

Maybe it had to do with driving the frontage road? I always drive the frontage road so I can go slower than the 70mph on the nearby highway. I wasn't paying attention, I can't remember if they were Sheriffs or State Patrol.

Several mentions above about the highway patrols being the creme de la creme and I completely agree. The city departments are not as well trained or don't have the same goals. But something is different, because the level of professionalism is different.

Case in point: I was a single father with full legal custody of my only daughter. One night about 1973 on the way home from a friend's house, Orange PD (CA) pulled me over and made me and my daughter, about 4, stand outside in very chilly night air for upwards of 30 minutes while they called for verification. That is, I carried a copy of the court decree in my wallet, but that was not good enough for them. They called their dispatcher who in turn called my brother-in-law at home. Thank God he was home. My daughter had left her jacket in the car and they would not allow either of us to retrieve it, nor would they retrieve it for her, even though she was shivering down to her shoes. Quickly, I took off my jacket from one arm and fit her between me and the sleeve. After they got verification from their dispatcher, they apologized and let us go. They, the 2 of them, were completely inconsiderate, or maybe they didn't have kids. I told them that no apology was necessary since any damage was already done. They didn't take kindly to that and got into their cruiser muttering things that I was happy to not hear.


I don't get pulled over very often anymore since I drive a newer car and work a normal shift. For many years, I left work between 1 and 3 AM since I was in charge of a maintenance crew at a big manufacturing plant and had to lock up the building. I drove a 78 Honda Civic then and had a big beard. If I was seen by a cop, I was frequently pulled over and checked out, I'm sure because that was the time of night that the drunks were on the road. They never once cited me for anything in all those years.

Also interesting is that if you go to work very early in the morning, like 3 or 4, you will be suspect as well. One time about 1995 the CHP pulled me over at about 4 AM, I was teaching a class at 5 AM in LA, and he asked me where I was going "this evening". At that instant, I realized that that is how they tell. If you answer evening, then you've been out all night. But if you answer morning, then you are probably on your way to work.

Nevertheless, if I had gotten a ticket for every time I broke the law I would still be paying them off.

Faithful and True

Hi there!

I guess my views on being pulled over will stand as an introduction.

I've only ever gotten two tickets in my 18 years of driving. And oddly enough, neither was my fault. I've been pulled over many more times than I've had to pay.

I got pulled over for speeding as I was just exiting the road I had lived on at the time, it was a 45mph road and since I had just left from a complete stop, I had not had time to even get to the speed limit, let alone exceed it.

The officer told me he had me on radar at 60mph. I asked what he was using because my radar detector (legal in Oregon) had not gone off and I wasn't even up to 30mph let alone 60! The officer looked at the detector and gave me a ticket for not having my car registered (I was well within the 30 day time limit and the ticket was tossed out when my car was registered... which was that next Friday, payday, which was when I was going to do it anyhow.) The ticket was clearly given to me because he had no excuse to give me a ticket in the first place and did so out of spite. It could just as easily had been a verbal warning about the registration.

This was my first encounter with law enforcement when it came to traffic law.

My second was on a Friday night after driving home from a Halloween party. I was driving a friend home and it was late. Neither of us drank, which is sad because it would have been a wonderful reason for my being a complete moron!

As I was driving along, in a 35mph area, I found traffic crawling at a slow 20ish and decided to pass them all. I did so at around 40 and was clearly at fault as in the middle of this slow herd of commuters was a perfectly obvious patrol car.

When I got pulled over he asked why I was in such a hurry. I said that I was in a hurry to get my friend home and myself to bed. I told him that I had class in the AM and needed as much sleep as I could get since it was already late. I told him that he had me free and clear and I thought it was rather funny at the time since I had passed him!

He also pointed out that the next day was a Saturday... No class... I smiled sheepishly and said something like "Really? Cool!" and he just told me to be careful and I was on my way. Why he didn't make me walk the line etc is beyond me. Yay for kind officers!

My next run in with patrol officers was in Colorado, I was on my way from Wyoming to a VA appointment in Denver when I passed a police officer like he was standing still. It was a 70mph area and I probably passed him at around 85. I was running really close to late and he was in a light blue unmarked car. I looked and saw him look right at my and was given the gift of seeing him put his hat on before he flipped the lights on. It had to be one of the most amusing sights I had ever seen.

When I pulled over, and it was right when I finish passing him, he came over and the first thing out of his mouth was "What, wasn't I going fast enough for you?" I then answered, "Not really." and he took my paperwork. I thought for sure I was going to get a ticket and he had me dead to rights. When he came back I said "You got me fair and square, I'll nor argue with you. It was pretty obvious and I shouldn't have been going so fast" He then asked my why I was speeding and I explained as noted above. He then gave back my paperwork and said "Just be careful who you pass from now on." No ticket!

All I could think was that he was a really nice guy!

The next run in was in Wyoming and I was driving up the freeway right outside Laramie Wyoming. My little Fox could not make it up that hill at speed limit, let alone at the 80mpg he said I was going. That ticket was expensive and even though I offered up my car as evidence, the judge would not listen to anything I said. It was clearly a money maker for them and they did not matter if the Laws of Physics said his accusation was impossible, the "law" apparently outweighs the Laws of the universe...

In short, I've only ever gotten a ticket when the officer was a complete jerk and there was nothing I did wrong... When I did something wrong, the officer has let me off the hook... I guess it all evened out in the end. Ok, I am still on up!

My method, tell the truth and be polite. I have a thankless job, people only call on me when something breaks. This means that day in and day out, I am only dealing with angry people who want me to fix their issues. Often issues that they caused themselves!

This means that when I talk to people, they're pissed and want everything their way. So when I encounter an officer, I just put myself in thier shoes and tell them what the situation is and be polite and it all works out.

"The Man" or whatever you want to call them, are what you make of them. You get complete jerks and you get really great people, there's probably people in the middle of the road as well, but I haven't met them!

So be polite to police officers and your life will be easier. You catch more flies with sugar than vinegar.

Yeah, I'll say that was a good introductory post. I enjoyed the read.

Welcome!

Awesome post, I especially enjoyed the link on the "Busted" video in this post.

I have been pulled over once, for taking a right hand turn as the light turned right...and nearly running into a cop car! These guys had just made an arrest and were right on the corner of the street off a freeway exit and I tried to make it through the light as it turned red. Gave me a shock, that's for sure. Needless to say, I knew I was caught, so I pulled over to the side of the road and waited for the cop to come bring his fury down on my butt. Amazingly, the cop was very well mannered and gave me nothing but a stiff rebuke, about the fact that I could have run over his colleague (ouch). Amazingly again, he let me off with nothing but a warning! I was nothing but polite, turned off the engine and my music, rolled down the window, had my license and registration ready and did everything he asked to the limit of my rights. Shows you how far that can take you.

For all those who are opposed to cops, despite my never having had any run-ins with them, I have nothing but the greatest respect for them and the tough job that they do. I worked as a volunteer after Katrina, and I worked with a bunch of guys from local to federal level, and they are all just normal people who have to do a job the average Joe would never dream of doing.

I was also recently one of the first ones on the scene of a big rig collision on the 210 freeway, and after calling it in to 911 and having the cops come over, I was asked numerous times by them if everything was all right with me. It was very early in the morning, and although I'm sure it's their job and they are paid to do it, I was amazed at the work they did, everything from traffic control to cleaning up the scene and tending to the injured while the medics came.

Besides, I'm all for cops on the freeway. Scares the sh*t out of the reckless speeders and unaware drivers, slowing down traffic, which is great for my hypermiling as I don't get pestered as much by dumb drivers:p

As an inner-city middle school teacher and disciplinarian, I frequently brought up how to deal with police, teachers, and all adults, really: when you are polite to those in authority, it reminds them to be polite to you.

I've been pulled over doing 150 on my "97 CBR900 by a motorcycle cop in San Jose and he yelled at my friends and I to slow down and stop being stupid.
I evaded a policeman once in Gilroy and parked in a driveway with my lights off, he saw me and gave me a sobriety test and let me go with a warning.
I blew past an officer doing 95 going to San Jose from Morgan Hill on Highway 101, he said he chased me for 20 miles trying to catch up . He finally pulled me over and gave me a choice of getting a ticket for wreckless driving or doing 75 in a 65. Duh!
Of course, I am 37 now and those were all when I was much younger (and dumber), but most officers I have met are totally nice and deserve the respect I give them. (THere are a few with huge egos, but let's not let a few spoil it for the rest).
They are out there doing a crappy job, dealing with the shallow end of the gene pool (in most circumstances) and still hold it together well enough to go home and be good spouses and parents (in most cases). I give them props for what they do (until I get a ticket of course, then you'll see me on here complaining like the rest of you! ;^)

psyshack,

1.
I was stopped by the highway patrol recently when they trained their radar gun on a car coming up behind me, and thought the reading was for my car. They were wrong. I'm a hyper-miler, so I don't go 76 in a 55, like they thought. I calmly reasoned with the officer and he did not write me up.

2.
Only one time in my life have I had an open-container in my car. It was a late night and I was just careless for a few minutes. I was stopped, surrounded by 6 police cars, and approached by officers. They talked to me and realized that I was not drunk and was just an average guy. They did not search my car or write me up for anything.

3.
I once pushed the silent-alarm at a store my friend worked at just to see what would happen. I was young and didn't realize how serious this was. The police showed up with guns drawn. They said they could easily take me to jail, but realized after talking with me that I respected them and didn't mean to do wrong. They let me go.

The police are not out to get innocent people or ruin people's lives. You should take a close look at yourself as the root of your problems with the police.

I'm going to throw my 2 cents in here.

I've had mixed experiances with cops, and it all seems to depend on where you're at. Living in colorado all my life, I've heard stories about the cops in this city, or that city, and don't go here after X time or the cops will beat you, etc. Never have I experianced such treatment, but I will say I've been treated to some blatent stupidity. I've only been pulled over three times, and only ever walked away with a legitimate ticket once.

When my SO moved from Kentucky to here, she was very nervous about the roads. No idea where to go, how to get around, etc. So, for the first few months I did most of the driving in her car with her riding shotgun to get her bearings. One night, I took a signal I've driven through my entire life. I started the turn on green, it turned yellow on me mid way through, and was red after I left the intersection. There was another car behind me, and behind that, a cop. The guy behind me had CO plates, the car I was in? KY!
I was pulled over and asked why I had run the red light. I was harrased, told that I had obviously floored it to make it through the light, and was threatened with a 4 point violation of ignoring a trafic signal and driving wrecklessly. Then he saw my CO licence. I was then quizzed for a long time as to why I was driving an out of state car, why wasn't the owner, who wsa sitting next to me driving. was it realy their car? They even demanded her driver's liscence to 'prove' I didn't steal the vehical. That was about 40$ I should have fought, because it was all based on my out of state plates. I was an "easy target".

My next run in was with a Broomfield cop. It was early morning, I had breakfast and a hot coffee in my passenger seat and cupholder. I was driving my old Mazda, wearing a pair of slacks, a button down shirt, tie and glasses. I had my hair tied back, and looked like any other mid 20s IT guy. I look in the next lane while stopped at a light before an on ramp, see a city cop, and make the biggest mistake... I was nice. I smiled, waved, then proceeded to drive on the green. Before I was half way up the ramp, he was behind me with his lights and sirens going. I had broken no laws, and hadn't even started moving fast enough to have gone over the safe limit of the on ramp. First thing the cop says to me? "Good morning ma'am." Ma'am? Because I had my hair back? Oh, the guys at the office laughed at that one. I was then charged with nothing, but had to wait while his partner examined my truck, searched my job box, checked out the inside of my truck, and even asked me why I had a CB radio. I was then told, and get this, that I was pulled over for having a crack in my windshield.
Yes, that's right, a crack in my windshield. It was JANUARY! In COLORADO! There were rocks and dirt and debris all over the road from sanding from the cold weather and ice. I had a small chip an inch off the bottom of the driver's side, well out of the field of view for the road. I was told this was highly illegal, as it obstructed my view of the road ,and that if he wasn't 'so nice' he'd have fined me. I was honestly surprised, expressed this, and he shrugged, said "that's how it is" and handed me his card with the station name on it so I could verify his claim. All that really cost me was being 30 minutes late for work and a lot of frustration, but still... All I did was smile and wave and treat him like a human being, and I was given the third degree and then handed a bogus reason for being pulled over. I checked the law, and yes, if its in the middle of your windshield it is illegal. I had another cop verify that the chip I had was perfectly allowable.

More proof you have abusers and power trippers in every group.

Now, I've got nothing against the police. My beef is mostly with traffic cops who know that they have you at their mercy, and play it up. I've had plenty of experiances counter to the above as well, such as the time I lost control of that same pickup truck after traveling through the river formed by a broken water main. I wasn't going fast, as there were cops everywhere to direct traffic. I had gotten back onto the dry road when I started to pick up speed. I got to about 20 MPH before I started hearing a squeeling noise. I looked behind me quickly to see if someone had lost controll, then looked back to the front to realize I was traveling at an odd angle down the road. No matter what I did or how much I countersteered, I could not stop the thing sliding. I started to angle into the curb, and hit a bus stop hard enough to bend the pole and leave a dent in my steel bumper.
The 6 or so cops stopped to look as I nearly spun out. As soon as I came to a stop, my first reaction was to look back the way I had just come from for oncoming traffic. I saw the cops stopping cars, and one of them turned and waved at me. I waved back, and instead of having a patrol car down on my head and a ticket, I got a thumbs up and a motion to move along. Scared the hell out of me, if you'll pardon the french, but those cops could have had me for breakfast if they so chose.

You get a few rotten apples and they color everyone's view. You have some that are out to lay their own justice on the roads, and some who revil in the power. You have a majority, however, that as has been pointed out, just want to go home with everything intact at night.


I do have a question, however. Was I in the wrong for being polite to another motorist, a cop, that I should have brought up suspicion and a reason for being pulled over?

When I was younger I had a suspended license for failure to appear. That is a whole other story all together. But, I continued to drive, knowing full well it was suspended. Over the course of a few months I got 5 DWS, and various other tickets. My license plate lights were burned out at the time, so they had a reason to pull me over. There was one cop that had pulled me over a few times so he knew me and my car. He came up to my window and addresses me by my last name and asked how I was doing that night. Me and my friend in the car at the time were for some reason amused by me getting pulled over so many times and some of those times by the same cop. We both tried to contain our laughter. We turn away from the cop, cover our mouths while snickering, etc. He looks at my friend not wearing his seatbelt. Says something about it to him. My friend replies, while trying not to laugh, "I suppose you're going to give me a ticket for that." The cop then tells me that he could have my car towed, all I could do was turn away and cover my smile and try not to laugh as I say yes. To summarize the cop was doing his job, I was young and dumb.

The police are not out to get innocent people or ruin people's lives. You should take a close look at yourself as the root of your problems with the police.

I agree!

At of all the times I have been stopped (I was a horrible driver during college), Only one cop was ever rude. It was a small town cop in south texas who went through the whole "I dont like you kinda people in my town" routine. The rest have treated me kindly. The one time I did upset a cop, he was walking towards my truck, I reached down to pick a smoke from under the seat. He gave me a stern, "please keep your hands on the wheel sir." Now that I carry a weapon I realize how doing that sort of thing can make a cop nervous. I would think me having a CCW would make cops nervous (in TX and OK) but it doesnt. I usually end up chit-chatting with the cop what kind of piece I like to carry.

There was a link on the 1st page of this thread talking about how a mentally ill person was shot for not showing his hands. The links were bad so I was not able to read the story myself, also the poster did not give enough details for me to google the story. This is a sensative issue. Since the poster feels that cops are Nazi Storm Troopers, I feel he/she is likely exagerating on why the "mentally-ill" person was shot.

http://www.ksat.com/news/9471126/detail.html

The link above is small article regarding the police shooting of a man at a San Antonio Gas station. The man had a mental dz (schizophrenia I think) and was causing a ruckus in the parking lot. When the cop confronted the man, the man became even more irritated. The man did eventually pull out a knife and started to move towards the cop. The cop order then man to drop the knife but the man continued towards the officer. The officer felt his life was in danger and fired his gun 3 times, killing the man. Could the cop have handled the situation differently? Maybe. Since then the SAPD has included more training for how to deal with a mentally-ill person. One thing remains the same, mentally ill or not, when someone is about to kill you (the video tape from the gas station confirms this), you must defend yourself. Why not a taser? I'm not in the military or a cop but in my opinion, if someone is trying to kill you, you use the weapon that will stop the target as soon as possible. When there is a knife 3 feet from your throat, reasoning has failed, deadly force is required.

Hi delond2,

Law enforcement has a tough job, and of the 15+ times in the past I got a ticket, only two of those I'd contest.

The remark early in the thread about "Nazi Storm Troopers" was a bit over the top, like most references to Hitler and the Nazis. Having said that, I did have one encounter with a less than professional cop that refused to let me explain I was on the way to see a doctor over vertigo. :mad:

In general, I'd like to see more enforcement of speeding and other reckless driving. Not only would it make a big dent in traffic fatalities, it raise revenue for cities - why don't they do it? Over time, it would be easier to spot criminals if the general driving public is respecting the law more.

Welcome to CleanMPG!

Well, I deserved all the ones I got!!

We have a few real a--holes in new York state like the one who was giving people tickets for driving one mile an hour over the posted sleed limit which was 65. He is allowed to do that under New York State Traffic Code. New York is one of the three states that has an absolute speed limit. I was recently stopped by this boot trooper who was like one third my age and thinks i am a drunk because i was doing 50mph on a quiet dark interstate. I heard him scanme and saw him cross over. He followed me for an inordinate amount of time and then finally puts his lights on. I stop and he asks me if i know the speed limit. Of course i do I worked on the highway building it before this guy was even thought of. Actually the real reason he stopped me was because the owner of the vehicle had a DWI on their license and he thought he was going to make a hit. He asked why I was driving at 50mph. (I had been doing 65 until I saw three deer on the right shoulder and I have wrecked my other car two times hitting a deer on the same stretch of road two years apart. In short I have the fourth hood and forth set of front fenders on my own car. ) I told him about the deer and he said he rarely sees any deer hit on the interstates. (OH Really) . This interstate was cut through the largest deer population in the state of New York Route I-88 if anyone has ever been on it. I see dead deer every single time I drive it. He asks if I had anything to drink. I do not drink any drugs but I am sure he does and I am also sure this guy was a marijuana smoker which does not prevent anyone from being a cop today and it does not prevent anyone from applying to the FBI or any other law agency. Why? They know most kids have smoked the weed and if they delete those people they would not be able to hire anyone. So this little pr--- shines hislight looking to give me a ticket for stickers or inspection but it was a new vehicle and not mine so i was not about to take any chances with it. He said in the very beginning that I was weaving over the white line. Wrong and a typical lie. I felt like telling him just because he is encouraged to "lie" to people and is allowed to "lie" to people is not going to get him off the hook after he dies. All liars are going to have their place in the lake of fire according to the bible. See , I would not be any good at being a cop. I would not lie to people on the grounds of morality and because of the commands in the bible. Anyway , after 15 minutes the last thing I said was "what line did you say i was crossing over? ". He said the white shoulder line. I felt like saying your full of sh , but a drunk cannot remember what they said even a few seconds ago. In fact for those of you who get drunk or have to deal with drunks ought to realize that when a person , man or woman or child is drunk they are really "insane" during that time period. They do not know anything. If they refuse to stop even if a dozen cars are trying to get them to stop, they are not really trying to elude the police, they are acting the way their brain is responding to its inability to make decisions or judgements. So its really awful the way drunks are treated, being hit and kicked and stepped on and have their faces pushed into concrete. Its completely ridiculous to even to try to speak to a drunk. It matters not what you say they do not hear you let alone understand you. They cannot give consent to anything since they are legally "insane" during this time period. Now the bums who are slightly affected can be talked to and if they are clever they will never agree to take a breath test. If you ever notice when a cop of sheriff is pulled over for being drunk, he never takes the breath test. That way theres no proof he was really intoxicated. The license may be automatically suspended but that means nothing. He or she gets a conditional license and pays a fine. Then they go merrily on their way. So if you are ever given the question to take a breath test and you know you are really stoned, always say no. You are able to get a conditional license and all state realize the need for this otherwise the welfare costs and many other costs will go through the roof if people could not drive to work.

ummm... wow.

Last edited by morbius : Today at 03:02 PM. Reason: typos
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