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tigerhonaker
07-04-2006, 07:08 PM
2007 Honda Fit Long-Term Update No.5
July 3, 2006

by Midwest Office / American Auto Press

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/502/thumbs/Resize_of_100_0036.jpg (http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/showphoto.php/photo/17/si/Fit)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/508/thumbs/07_Honda_Fit_Sport_Side_Rear_Stopped.jpg (http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/showphoto.php/photo/159/si/Fit)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/502/thumbs/Resize_of_100_0037.jpg (http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/showphoto.php/photo/29/si/Fit)

Youve probably heard the saying "small is beautiful," in the context of a number of different things, ranging from automobiles to flowers to portraits. Likewise, the chances of hearing the saying, "small is clever" is also pretty high, because, lets face it, weve managed to cram all sorts of useful devices into some pretty small packages. A RIM Blackberry or an iPod Nano are just two examples of small and clever devices - items most people find increasingly difficult to live without once the addictive process sets in. But what about when a "small is..." phrase includes contradiction? Well, Honda has already proven that "small is spacious", or, more irreverently "small is big" when we moved some furniture and people, but how about "small is safe"?

Traditionally speaking, when it comes to safety, bigger has normally been better, hence the increase in popularity of large vehicles and SUVs. While the physics that dictate how a larger vehicle with greater mass will fare better in a collision than one that is lighter and smaller havent changed over the last decade or two, modern automobiles have. Theyve become better engineered and designed to resist the forces of impact of much larger vehicles. In fact, at the launch of the Fit, Honda brought along the final product of a crash test between a Fit Sport and a Ridgeline. Of course, the Ridgelines sum total of damage was far less than what was inflicted on the Fit, but this isnt the point. Against a fairly large object (a Ridgeline, for example) the Fit should have been flattened, but its safety cell held up well, with little in the way of structural deformation. The Verdict? The pair of crash test dummies wouldve lived to see another day.

Of course, getting into the Fit, theres a certain peace of mind that isnt exactly present in all subcompact cars. The doors, for example, dont have a tinny rattle when you shut them, as might be experienced in other cars in this class. Something like this may seem small, but in the grand scheme of things its quite important. A major part of the peace of mind equation, however, comes from its long list of standard safety features; so long, in fact, that weve got to break it up into its own paragraph. Though the Fit may be the smallest Honda, it gets the same safety considerations as does a Civic or an Accord. This comes as part of Hondas "Safety for Everyone Campaign", which is a good thing.

All Fit models, from Base to Sport get dual-stage front airbags with occupant classification system, front seat-mounted side-impact airbags to protect torsos (and the soft, squishy organs within them), three-point seatbelts for all occupants including the middle rider in the bench, and side curtain airbags. Also standard on each and every Fit are ABS brakes with electronic brakeforce distribution to prevent lock-ups of the front disc and rear drum brakes. Two LATCH child seat anchors located on the rear bench are also standard, helping to keep kiddies safe too. Hondas decision to feature all of these safety items as standard equipment is impressive: cutting costs is one thing; potentially saving lives by avoiding accidents and going the extra mile to cushion the blow is something altogether better. Rival automakers should take this into consideration.
Theres a reason why safety is such a big part of this latest update of our long term car, and thats because of a bit of news thats just come in. Recently, the Fit was crash tested by the NHTSA against a non-deformable barrier in front, and it received the full five-star rating. Thats pretty impressive stuff. By comparison, the 2006 Kia Rio received just four stars for the driver (five for the passenger); the 2007 Toyota Yaris has yet to be rated. In terms of other relevant crash tests, the Fit scored fairly well in the EuroNCAP offset and side-impact collision tests too, obtaining a four-star crash rating, as well as four stars in the JNCAP (Japanese New Car Assessment Program) test. Keeping in mind that, while the Fit is new to us its basic design dates back to 2001, its crash test performance is made all that more impressive.

Odometer: 4,472 miles

Justin: By the way the introduction reads, its probably safe to assume that Im a big safety guru, which is a true, verifiable fact. Having never been in the predicament of being in a serious accident and hoping to never be put in harms way, its nice to know that Hondas given the car some serious thought. On that note, the topic of standard (and available) safety was brought up at a presentation for Hyundais new three-door Accent that I attended. Its better than most other subcompacts on the market as it comes with side-thorax and side-curtain airbags, as does Toyotas new Yaris. Not to be bashing on Chevrolet, but why cant Aveo customers upgrade to side-curtain airbags? Being small poses a disadvantage in a world of heavyweight sport utility vehicles and full-size half-ton pickup trucks, both of which have become 21st century replacements for the minivan.

All you really need to do is look at the crash compatibility between something like a Ford F-150 and the Fit to see the advantages of having full side-impact protection. Yes, the Fit, or any other car in the subcompact class would probably have cracked bumpers or even more substantial damage as a result of 4,700 pounds of American (and now Japanese) metal colliding into the side at an intersection, but survivability is a more pressing issue. With bumper levels that are on level with window-frame height, the importance of side-curtain bags becomes all too clear.

Odometer: 4,524 miles

Justin: Anyone that knows me well will know that I spend a lot of time in cars; driving in them, riding in them, looking at them, photographing them, writing about them, and talking about them. If the car contains some kind of unique feature or innovation, Ill spend time praising it (reconfigured fuel tank, Magic Seats, etc.), and on the very rare occasion something infuriating comes along (eg. Volkswagens navigation system in the Passat), Ill even spend time cursing it. Having given it some serious thought, if I were to go out and spend my own money today, the Fit would be close to the top of the heap as my pick of the litter - not just out of subcompact cars, but out of all cars period. In honesty and truth, it does everything I need it to, without excessive consumption and waste. Its light, its easy to handle and its great to drive. Also, its perfect for my budget and my growing intolerance for finicky reliability, something that would rule out a turbodiesel Jetta or MINIs Cooper.

Odometer: 4,550 miles

Justin: This weekend happens to be a weekend thats got the our office staffers puttering around in some deeply fashionable vehicles - Mitsubishis new Eclipse Spyder in full-luxo trim, the intriguing RX-8 with its head-banging rotary engine, and MINIs chipper and cheerful Cooper S Convertible. But with Kogodos, our photographer out, my Sunday was spent filling his shoes, and therefore the Fit has become the photography car. While the Fit has seen service several times since it entered our fleet as the official photography car, this is the first time Ive been put in Kogodos position.

This said its a practical machine for photography, with a trunk thats large enough to carry my (small) collection of gear. In fact, the space is so large that my camera bag, tripod and remote ended up rolling about in the bay, which resulted in me just hanging it around the rear headrests. A small set of grocery hooks attached to the back of the rear seats would be useful for keeping things better organized.

But transporting the gear in the Fit is only half of this cars strengths as a photography vehicle; the other half is that its incredibly easy to shoot out of. With the rear windows rolled down, Magic Seats in Tall mode, and a very flat floor, its easy to dash from one side of the interior to the other to nab the perfect shot. The driving dynamics of the car also help in shooting photos too; with a ride that isnt particularly sharp or bouncy its easy to keep the camera stable. All in all, the shoot ended up being a success; the photos came out well, and the Fit shone in yet another area.

Odometer: 4,762 miles

Justin: For the first time in the months weve had the Fit, Ive encountered someone that actually doesnt like it. This is a bit of a strange phenomenon, because everyone I know - friends, family, people at work - like it a lot, and if not the entire vehicle, a quality or two in particular. But not this guy. Hes not from Toyota, nor from any firm thats in competition with the Fit - in fact, without giving out too much information hes a guy in training to service Hondas. Anyhow, upon prodding him with questions and firing all the usual information about how wonderful it is to drive, he seemed to refute it all by claiming its difficult to work on. The tiny engine has been located well below the hoods line which is ideal for occupant safety and pedestrian safety, but it makes accessing the motor a real chore. That, and he says the car is not nice to look at, too slow, too droney and not fun at all. But then again, his personal car is a modified Civic hatchback. Personally, I do not agree, but I havent driven his car.

This has got me wondering how the tuning scene has taken to the Fit, and what theyve managed to do to Hondas tiny city car. Ill have to find out...
Odometer: 4,866 miles

Justin: Im pleased to announce that weve managed to extend our test of the Fit until the end of July. Unfortunately, that means its now down to counting the days left, and putting the Fit on extra-duty to ease the troubles of urban city traffic. In complete truth, Im going to be really quite sad when the Fit leaves our long-term fleet. As you can tell, Ive become rather attached (I havent let anyone else drive it for two weeks, heh), and believe I speak for everyone in our office (who wish they could get their hands on it) by relating that everyones in agreement. This said, no need to mourn while its still in our midst.

Long Term Im pleased to announce that weve managed to extend our test of the Fit until the end of July. Unfortunately, that means its now down to counting the days left, and putting the Fit on extra-duty to ease the troubles of urban city traffic. In complete truth, Im going to be really quite sad when the Fit leaves our long-term fleet. As you can tell, Ive become rather attached (I havent let anyone else drive it for two weeks, heh), and believe I speak for everyone in our office (who wish they could get their hands on it) by relating that everyones in agreement. This said, no need to mourn while its still in our midst.

http://car-reviews.automobile.com/Honda/review/2007-honda-fit-long-term-update-no-5/1959/0

xcel
07-04-2006, 07:34 PM
Hi Terry:

___Counterpoint until Honda does it right …

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/506/60_mph_steady_state.jpg
HCH-II w/ the 1.3 at 60 mph: 1,800 RPM

Honda Fit replies (http://www.vtec.net/forums/one-message?message_id=543725&article_id=532449):

Honda Fit - 1.5 w/ the Manual at 60 mph: 2900 RPM
Honda Fit - 1.5 w/ the Automatic at 60 mph: 2300 RPM

___Is it a Buzz bomb or are we simply throwing gasoline out the window while traveling down the highway? It could have been so much more with the HCH-II’s 1.3 and CVT … or properly geared manual :(

___Good Luck

___Wayne

tigerhonaker
07-04-2006, 09:37 PM
Wayne's Quote:

___{Is it a Buzz bomb or are we simply throwing gasoline out the window while traveling down the highway? It could have been so much more with the HCH-II’s 1.3 and CVT … or properly geared manual} :(

Very True and it makes you wonder ? Why purchase the Smaller Fit with less, when you for a little more of an (Investment) can have the HCH II. Not to forget the HCH II's FE. :)

Terry

philmcneal
07-05-2006, 01:24 AM
still have high faith for the honda fit hybrid

tigerhonaker
07-05-2006, 07:23 AM
still have high faith for the honda fit hybrid

Phil,

Now that "FIT" is another story. ;)

AZBrandon
07-06-2006, 02:17 AM
Very True and it makes you wonder ? Why purchase the Smaller Fit with less, when you for a little more of an (Investment) can have the HCH II. Not to forget the HCH II's FE. :)

Well not everyone has an unlimited budget, and the Fit is without question a cheaper car to buy and in the long run, cheaper to repair since it simply has fewer and cheaper components to fail over time. The Civic hybrid is around $7000 more before tax credits, which is a very large gap. Also you use the word "smaller" but in many ways the Fit is a bigger car for some people since it's a hatchback. If you don't care about fitting 3 adults in the back seat and prefer to have as large a cargo area as possible, the Fit is very attractive.

hobbit
07-06-2006, 02:25 AM
I'm kinda wondering if my parents might wind up with one...
.
_H*

laurieaw
07-06-2006, 11:15 AM
doesn't anyone remember how small the early civics were? back in the mid 80s.......the one right now is about the size the accord was when i had mine in 1985.

philmcneal
07-06-2006, 07:39 PM
Well not everyone has an unlimited budget, and the Fit is without question a cheaper car to buy and in the long run, cheaper to repair since it simply has fewer and cheaper components to fail over time. The Civic hybrid is around $7000 more before tax credits, which is a very large gap. Also you use the word "smaller" but in many ways the Fit is a bigger car for some people since it's a hatchback. If you don't care about fitting 3 adults in the back seat and prefer to have as large a cargo area as possible, the Fit is very attractive.


that and being an agile car that can dodge pretty much any situation and you have a real winner for the city streets! really though the cargo carrying capability is very attractive and who knows, one might have to carry something big one day?

the civic HCHII is a nice car but i must agree its a steep investment, i just hope the fit hybrid is priced at least somewhat cheaper than the hchII and retaining the high mpg quality...

actually in theory if the fit hybrid mileage surpasses of the hchII... then what's going to happen to how the hchII is marketted?

theorist
07-06-2006, 07:50 PM
Actually, comparing the Fit with my old 1982 Accord, the Fit is heavier, wider, taller, and has a longer wheelbase. It also has far more power and interior room than a 1982 Accord. The only way the Fit is smaller is it is shorter than the 1982 Accord was. (I thought the 1985 Accord was the same size.) Bring back the small cars!

brick
07-06-2006, 08:40 PM
The tinkerer in me wants to buy one used and out of warrantee in a few years and find a way to mess with the final drive ratio. Maybe the right parts could be sourced from rising sun auto supply? (I.e. some japanese source?) Even if the engine is a little bigger than it has to be, there should be a way to get nasty FE out of it with the right kind of wrench turning.

I've seen a couple of these things around (almost too close...got cut off and nearly hit one yesterday) and I could see myself driving it. I find myself missing the cargo hauling capacity of my old wagon, but it isn't really size that I need. It's the boxy shape for the objects that won't fit through my trunk or doors. Maybe I'll go test drive one when the market cools down...if it cools down.

I have to share my biggest fear, though. It's that the ricer crowd will latch on to the Fit and start driving insurance rates through the roof like they have with the Civic. What's the point of owning a small, fuel efficient car if twice your fuel savings are eaten up just keeping it insured?

AZBrandon
07-07-2006, 02:11 AM
Why mess with anything? Just find an auto junkyard parts importer to get one of the transmissions from Japan. The 1.0 and 1.3 liter models should have a far taller final drive and/or 5th gear ratio.

As for insurance rates, are you just really young or something? I've never had problems with my insurance, and I live in the state with the highest auto theft in the USA! Any time I get quotes for insurance, my civic or even a new civic is either about the same or is cheaper than anything else I could buy. I'm paying about $70/month for a very healthy policy. FWIW, I got a quote on the Fit too, and they quoted it as $8 per 6-mo term cheaper than a 2006 Civic, which is in turn $1 cheaper to insure than my 1997 Civic. It seems that insurance is mainly just the liability costs these days, not vehicle replacement costs. Not surprising though, I'll bet 90% of the money paid out is to lawsuits, not damaged cars.

brick
07-07-2006, 07:43 AM
As for insurance rates, are you just really young or something?

I guess at 24 I'm in the "really young" category by insurance standards. My rates have been going down steadily but I'm still paying something like $130 or $140/mo to insure the Accord in Connecticut. It's not as bad as my former state of MA, but we do get put through the ringer pretty well here. There's also one at-fault accident on my record from 3+ years ago, which may not play much of a role now but certainly can't help.

Either way it's incentive to keep my Accord for a looooong time, and maybe by then Honda will have done a slightly better job with the Fit drivetrain. Somebody on a Honda forum was suggesting that the whole thing will be redesigned in two years, and that the 1.5L powerplant would be replaced by a lower-displacement version of the R18 from the Civic. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

AZBrandon
07-07-2006, 11:26 AM
The Fit came out in Japan in 2001. It's now 2006, so yeah, it's due for replacement. With the way gas prices have been for the last year or so in the USA, I hope that the product planners understood far enough in advance that the US market is ripe for a high-FE version of the Fit so we actually get one. Like you said, a smaller displacement version of the R18 should work wonders in the Fit, assuming they can cram the R18 or R-series derived motor in that tiny engine bay the Fit has. More important of course would be either a much taller 5th gear or offering a 6th gear that's much taller than the current 5th gear.

tigerhonaker
07-08-2006, 07:37 PM
Well not everyone has an unlimited budget, and the Fit is without question a cheaper car to buy and in the long run, cheaper to repair since it simply has fewer and cheaper components to fail over time. The Civic hybrid is around $7000 more before tax credits, which is a very large gap. Also you use the word "smaller" but in many ways the Fit is a bigger car for some people since it's a hatchback. If you don't care about fitting 3 adults in the back seat and prefer to have as large a cargo area as possible, the Fit is very attractive.

AZBRANDON,

That's why they make different vehicles. To each his own. I was just making a comment from (My) point of view. Like yourself and (Your) point of view. I'm glad there are all kinds of vehicles made for all of us to have a choice in buying the one that fits our individual budgets. Kinda reminds us of why we don't all buy Black Vehicles, HUH? :D

Have a Great Day, :)

Terry

AZBrandon
07-08-2006, 09:01 PM
Yep, everyone is in a different place in life and has different needs. As for color though, if we had to settle on every vehicle coming in one color, black is not ideal for visibility reasons. White or yellow would be far less prone to accidents since it stands out so much more at dawn/dusk/night.

tigerhonaker
07-08-2006, 09:25 PM
Yep, everyone is in a different place in life and has different needs. As for color though, if we had to settle on every vehicle coming in one color, black is not ideal for visibility reasons. White or yellow would be far less prone to accidents since it stands out so much more at dawn/dusk/night.

AZBrandon,

I agree. That's why I purchased so many {White & Yellow} vehicles for Yrs. now. If Honda had offered the HCH II in {White} with the two-tone Blue-Interior I would now be driving a White HCH II. :D

Terry

antrey
09-14-2006, 12:43 PM
I think it was Consumer Reports that put out an article on vehicle colors with respect to accidents. Silver was significantly safer followed by white and other light colors. Black and other dark colors were less safe. I imagine silver is the safest because in addition to being highly visible, the mind perceives it as being a metallic object you don't want to hit.

tigerhonaker
09-14-2006, 11:47 PM
I think it was Consumer Reports that put out an article on vehicle colors with respect to accidents. Silver was significantly safer followed by white and other light colors. Black and other dark colors were less safe. I imagine silver is the safest because in addition to being highly visible, the mind perceives it as being a metallic object you don't want to hit.
Interesting thought on the color of Silver Metallic. Never would have thought of it that way. You may be right. :)

southerncannuck
10-05-2008, 08:35 AM
The price diff between a HCH and a FIT is 50%. Nothing to sneeze at. I might mention that I can fit surfboards in the FIT, which I can't in any sedan.

By the way, the FIT auto turns closer to 2100 at 60 mph than the 2300 that Wayne mentioned and there is no buzz.

xcel
10-05-2008, 12:18 PM
Hi Southerncannuck:

___Over 2 years ago, 2,300 is what an AT Fit owner posted. We know what they are today by the calc’s and actual. The AT’s are fine wrt RPM at 60 but their FE stinks. The MT’s are the ones that have problems w/ RPM’s at speed because Honda wanted it that way?

___Finally, look at the HCH-II’s R’s at 60 mph with the far less powerful 1.3L ICE and ~ 300 more pounds of weight. The Fit needed the gearing it does like we need yet another Wall Street Bailout… Whoops, we probably do :D

___Good Luck

___Wayne

southerncannuck
10-05-2008, 02:41 PM
Hi Wayne. I think that Honda's mistake was putting the V-TEC in the FIT. It's a boy racer motor and probably needs a few more RPMs that the 8 valve 1.3L.

Take a look at this power curve. I don't think there is a lot of room for low RPM cruising.

http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-article?article_id=622573

xcel
10-05-2008, 03:39 PM
Hi Southerncannuck:

___Indeed. And the counterpoint. The first gen Fit in Europe came with a 1.2L ICE and revved at 1,800 RPM at 60 mph with its AT...

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Walter
10-05-2008, 05:34 PM
I looked back at the calculations I did before buying my Fit.
Scenarios:
Realistic (Without hypermiling) : 34.5 mpg (based on EPA being a bit less than my HX civic)
Ridiculously Optimistic (With hypermiling) : 40 mpg
Actual : 41 mpg lifetime.
Fall Challenge : 48.1
The challenge mpg will drop with cold winter temps.

A more efficient engine, better aerodynamics, lower rpms, lower pollution and better rear crash protection are the main changes I'd like. If there was a hatchback version of the HCHII I would have bought that.

The space efficiency of the hatchback is great. Occasionally I could use a bit more length for hauling junk -- yesterday I needed plywood and cut it to 4'8" instead of 5' so I could carry it inside with two people in front. But I wouldn't give up much mpg for more a little more space.

Altogether, I'm happy with the Fit. I'd like my next car to be a plugin hybrid version of the Insight.

--Walter



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