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View Full Version : Adapting Basic Hypermiling Techniques to the HCH-II


tarabell
06-30-2006, 01:14 AM
Tarabell - CleanMPG.com (www.CleanMPG.com) - June 30, 2006
Section I - Setup, Driving Routine, and FE Testing

2006 Honda Civic Hybrid

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/506/2006_Civic_Hybrid_02.jpg
The HCH-II - Honda’s most fuel efficient 4-door sedan

This article describes my personal experience in adapting basic hypermiling techniques to the HCH-II. More advanced techniques such as FAS and P&G are not covered here but hopefully there will be a future article on these as well. Owners of earlier HCH models might also find some information here applicable to their automobile but this article is really meant to be specific to the HCH-II.

I divided the article into 3 sections for better understanding and readability. I hope you find the same.

Driving the HCH-II involves much more of your senses than driving other non-hybrid and even some hybrid automobiles: Not only are you watching your instrumentation closely, you are also observing the road, timing traffic lights, noticing terrain, listening to the engine and gear train, and feeling the car's actions from the seat of your pants, as well as through your foot all at the same time!

Basic and Advanced Setup

As with all automobiles, a good setup can make the difference between good FE and great FE. The HCH-II is no different and in fact, may be more susceptible to an improper setup due to the smaller ICE. The benefits of break-in for example are gradual but as it progresses I can expect slightly longer glides, lower torque requirements for a given speed or terrain, and a slightly smoother running and more efficient ICE.

While accumulating miles there are other things you can do: set tire pressure at maximum listed sidewall or higher, use a high quality synthetic oil such as Mobil1’s 0W-20 or 5W-20, and quantity at no more than max height on the dip stick. I currently run 44 psi in my HCH-II’s Dunlop’s, heading up to 50 and switched to the high quality, low kinematic viscosity, Honda 0W-20 on her first oil change.

Another more advanced setup solution could include the removal of the DRL (Daytime Running Light) fuse so as to limit the current draw from the 12V which draws off the 158 V pack by another 100 + W. That seemingly small wattage has to be replaced and it will come either from “Regen”, hidden, or forced charging from the ICE. So it should be possible to eke out another ~ .2 + mpg’s during daylight hours with this mod. Below is the fuse to be removed in order to disable the DRLs. A fuse map is also in your Owner’s Manual. I haven't tried this myself and do not believe this mod has been widely used in practice so there may be unknown consequences. However it should not affect your parking lights and headlights. Hopefully others will post their experiences regarding this in the future.

Disabling DRL’s

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/506/HCH_II_Interior_Fuse_Panel.jpg
Interior fuse panel - Fuse #37 removes DRL’s from service

Also, to remove some of the warm up FE hit from initial cold light off, I’ll pass on Xcel’s recommendation that everyone consider installing a block heater, given coolant temperature is a major input into the ECU for when to allow closed loop operation or not.

Accelerating from a stop up to given speed

Start up: When I start my car after it’s been cold for many hours or after overnight while sitting in the garage or drive, it usually starts with high revs as most cars experience during start up with an initial rich mixture like mode to warm up both the coolant and catalytic converter(s). I find no need to give the HCH-II any gas to get to the first stop sign from my home or to get out of the parking lot at work. Once past the first stop sign or so, the revs come down and I’ll then start using the accelerator pedal for propulsion. This cold startup phase typically lowers my FE the first couple miles out.

Acceleration: I personally prefer slow acceleration over fast so typically I try not to go over 2000 RPM’s. That number has been mentioned a multitude of times by hypermilers as an informal rule of thumb, and one of the tests I ran for this article backs this up as a valid benchmark. I give it just enough accelerator to get up to speed with the current flow of traffic. My main aim is to ease up on the gas pedal as soon as possible and get the iFCD close to or at its maximum. The other thing I’ll watch is assist. If I accelerate slowly enough, I can forgo any assist but typically I try not to go over three bars of assist on most accels. The main thing I watch is the tach. If I have to do a high speed accel like onto a freeway onramp, I will get up to speed quickly then pulse my foot off the pedal a few times to lower the tach down below 2000 RPM’s as quickly as possible. This is known as Fake Shifting or FS. I will discuss more about foot to accelerator pressure later in the article. Merging onto a freeway is the only time I have difficulty keeping the tach below 2000 RPM’s as I’m forced to match the speed of cars in the right lane into which I am merging.

At speed: Once I’ve eased up on the pedal to a near constant speed, the iFCD is usually > 75mpg if on a level road and I can then hold it there with very little accelerator pedal pressure. The HCH-II can easily maintain speed with a fraction of the pedal pressure another car would normally require. I find I can keep it near 90 mpg in city driving with little trouble if no traffic is around and can often nudge it into an EV/Glide mode which I will also describe later. I will only match the flow of traffic if necessary. If there is no traffic behind, I’ll go slower than the speed limit, preferably 25 – 35 mph range on a 35 - 45 mph roadway. For freeway driving I stay in the far right-hand lane, typically in the 50 - 60 mph range while DWL, DWB, and RR. I moved from my favorite 2nd-to-left lane very soon after I started recording segments as I found anything above 60 mph has a definite impact on my FE. I do not use cruise control as a rule for freeway driving, even long ones! Cruise control feels too “passive” to me and since I paid for all these fancy hybrid gauges for feedback I figure I should use them. With CC on, I might as well cover them up. Below I included some CC and non-CC based steady state cruise tests which most should find enlightening and maybe shocking, as to the proper way to drive the HCH-II for maximum FE.

Speed and Acceleration Tests

Now that I’ve introduced how I come up to speed and maintain it, this is a good time to discuss two very specific tests I performed for this article. The first test looks at what effect speed has on FE. This test compares speeds two different ways - using cruise control and without - which also helps answer the question of which method is likely to allow the highest FE.

The second test looks at the effect of different acceleration rates on FE. The question of whether one should accelerate quickly or slowly to get up to desired speed has been a perennial forum discussion and debate and I hope the data helps shed some light, at least as far as the HCH-II is concerned.

Road and Test Conditions: Finding ideal roads for these tests seemed like half the battle. First, I wanted to be able to use a single street for all runs for data consistency but there are not many streets one can drive in a range of 30 - 60 mph (at least legally). The route also needed to be a couple miles long to allow for start up and slow down, no traffic signals, hopefully little traffic, and of course as road grade level as possible! Piece of cake :( I finally found a divided road that met most of these conditions except for one, a “T” intersection traffic light midway. That light rarely changed except when triggered by another car approaching and of course that only seemed to happen just as I’m barreling towards it during a run. Other traffic was a nuisance too as I would get boxed in behind a slow moving truck, a car would slow down in front of me to turn into a driveway, or some other such nonsense causing me to break speed. I expanded my library of colorful expressions and gritted my teeth through at least 2 - 3 runs for every good data point. Then I noticed if I mixed runs going in different directions I got vastly inconsistent data which implied the road was not as perfectly flat as I thought so I ensured that all the speed tests were run in one direction and the acceleration tests were run in the other direction so that each run used the exact same segment. The only test I could not run on this road was the 60 mph test, since the speed limit was 50 mph and it was too far from home for midnight testing. For that test, I picked a distinct, flat freeway segment on my commute home and recorded a run there every day for a few days.

Here are two views of the test road: one looking east and one looking west.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/506/Test_Road_East.jpg http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/506/Test_Road_West.jpg
Mid-speed test road heading East and then West - Suburbs of LA.

As far as other environment conditions, the tests were run with a warmed up car with full battery charge, no A/C on, and the windows cracked a couple inches. There was no wind and temperatures were in the high 70’s. I found most of the data to be quite consistent, but sometimes there were surprises between similar runs.

Test 1: Speed Effects on FE

Test Steps:

1) Accelerate to desired speed (30, 40, 50, and 60 mph). Maintain speed using cruise control, then zero Trip-A odometer and drive until 1.0 mile reached. Record trip FE.

2) Repeat above for all speeds, except without using CC.

Trip-A – Constant speed tests - MPG Results

With Cruise Control||||
Run #|30 mph|40 mph|50 mph|60 mph
1|84.3 mpg|89.3 mpg|69.1 mpg|56.4 mpg
2|86.5 mpg|89.0 mpg|64.8 mpg|48.5 mpg
3|85.1 mpg|90.7 mpg|67.3 mpg|50.5 mpg
||||
Average’s|85.3 mpg|89.7 mpg|67.1 mpg|51.8 mpg
||||
Without Cruise Control||||
Run #|30 mph|40 mph|50 mph|60 mph
1|109.6 mpg|95.4 mpg|70.9 mpg|57.9 mpg
2|99.2 mpg|96.0 mpg|71.4 mpg|56.0 mpg
3|97.6 mpg|87.4 mpg|70.2 mpg|52.9 mpg
4|140.0 mpg|92.2 mpg|68.8 mpg|53.8 mpg
||||
Average’s|111.6 mpg|92.2 mpg|68.8 mpg|53.8 mpg


http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/506/30_mph_Steady_State.jpg http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/506/40_mph_steady_state.jpg
30 mph steady state FE w/ CC engaged - 1,075 RPM. 40 mph steady state FE w/ CC engaged - 1,175 RPM.


http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/506/50_mph_steady_state.jpg http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/506/60_mph_steady_state.jpg
50 mph steady state FE w/ CC engaged - 1,500 RPM. 60 mph steady state FE w/ CC engaged - 1,800 RPM.

Notes: The cruise control tests did not show much variation so I only did 3 runs with CC. The tests without CC were more difficult to run holding a set speed and the results showed it so I added a 4th. I was only able to take photos of the iFCD during the runs with CC, as I found it too dangerous otherwise. I want to add that all the above results were still increasing after the 1.0 mile point, so they could have been higher with even longer segments!

Conclusions: The FE results with Cruise Control were somewhat different than I had expected. Of the 4 speeds, 40 mph clearly gave the best FE, even 5% better than 30mph. At higher speeds the results show a significant decrease of ~ 25% for each 10 mph over 40 mph.

Without CC, the tests show a quite predictable loss of FE with increasing speed of ~ 20 mpg for every 10 mph over 30 mph. Comparing FE both with and without CC, the driver’s right foot easily wins at very low speeds but by much less at higher speeds. I suspect the 2 extreme data points at 30 mph were due to going into “EV-Assist” (but my eyes were glued to the Trip A odometer unfortunately). At 60 mph, the gap between using CC or not narrows significantly.

Because the 50 & 60 mph FE results appear low compared to what you would think the HCH-II was worth, I went and clocked an ~ 10 mile segment for comparison at 60 mph on the freeway where I got about 75 mpg (no CC). That is a huge difference which I believe indicates that FE depends to some extent on the segment length you are testing/driving.

Test 2: Acceleration Effects on FE

Test Steps: Zero Trip-A odometer while at a full stop. Accelerate smoothly until the tach needle reaches desired RPM’s (1900, 2100, and 2300 RPM’s). Maintain RPM’s until speed reaches 50 mph and use CC to maintain speed until 1.0 miles has been reached. Record trip FE.

Trip-A – Acceleration tests - MPG Results

To 1.0 miles|||
Run #|1,900 RPM|2,100 RPM|2,300 RPM
1|44.2 mpg|40.9 mpg|41.6 mpg
2|44.2 mpg|42.1 mpg|42.9 mpg
3|45.4 mpg|42.4 mpg|42.7 mpg
4|47.7 mpg|42.2 mpg|41.4 mpg
5|44.2 mpg|40.9 mpg|40.3 mpg
|||
Average’s|45.1 mpg|41.7 mpg|41.8 mpg
|||
To 0.6 miles|||
Run #|1,900 RPM|2,100 RPM|2,300 RPM
1|38.6 mpg|35.3 mpg|34.7 mpg
2|38.8 mpg|35.3 mpg|35.2 mpg
3|-|-|34.9 mpg
|||
Average’s|38.7 mpg|35.3 mpg|34.9 mpg

Notes: In the HCH-II, it’s a bit hard to distinguish between 2100 & 2300 on the tach since the marks are so close together. Smooth acceleration is the key because if ragged, the tach will bounce around harshly :( Because there was very little difference in results between the 2100 and 2300 runs I wondered if the 1.0 mile distance was too long for this type of test? So I performed a second set of tests using a smaller 0.6 mile segment to see if I did something wrong with the first and to see if the results would spread more. There was little change as noted.

Conclusions: Accelerating above 1900 RPM’s results in about a 10% drop in FE. I was surprised to see the 2100 and 2300 rpm results so similar.

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Section II – EV/Glide Modes and Experiences

Regen/Glide/EV-Assist Modes

The different EV/Glide modes on the HCH-II are important tools in increasing FE. The easiest way to describe them is to go through a scenario I typically use that engages all three of them in sequence. I’m going to use the shorthand “Regen”, “Glide” and “EV/Assist” for the 3 modes and refer to them in this manner throughout the rest of the article. Assume I'm cruising at 55mph on level highway:


“Regen” - This is what I always considered “coasting”. While at speed I simply lighten or remove my right foot from the accelerator pedal. The Charge display shows green bars indicating energy is being recaptured and is being used to charge the battery. Less foot pressure, faster deceleration => more bars in the Charge display, more “Regen” charge to the pack. The iFCD will move to the right and peg at 100 mpg. However, “Regen” slows me down more than I normally would in a non-hybrid car with standard ICE-braking. Even if heading downhill, I can feel the slowing effect of “Regen” on the car. In this mode as well as the next two, the ICE is still turning over with the transmission engaged, but the valves and injectors are closed and no fuel is being consumed. I also find the engine very quiet in all three modes.

Regen

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/506/Mode1_EV_Glide_with_Regen.JPG
Losing speed quickly with full “Regen”.


“Glide” - While watching the Charge display, I gently reapply pressure to the accelerator pedal and the regen bars start to disappear. When completely gone I am still “coasting” except now I’ve eliminated the drag caused by “Regen” and can coast much further without slowing as fast while the iFCD will continue to be pegged at 100 mpg. This is known as “Glide”. I can hold the “Glide” mode for a good distance, often several miles depending on terrain.

Glide

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/506/Mode2_EV-Glide_No_Regen_or_Assist.JPG
Still losing speed but at a much slower rate in “Glide”.


“EV-Assist” - While the iFCD is still pegged at 100 mpg and all “Regen” is cancelled, I continue gently applying pressure to the accelerator pedal until I see one or more gray bars appear in the Assist display. This indicates the electric motor is now assisting propulsion even though the ICE is not consuming fuel with its valves and injectors closed. I can hold this for at most, half a minute at a time at high speeds and the car will start to slow down even with foot pressure steady as a rock. This requires a fine foot-balancing act because given too much pressure the assist bars disappear, the iFCD drops, and a distinctive lurch happens as the ICE comes back online to help re-accelerate or maintain speed as well as consuming fuel once again. If the iFCD hasn't dropped too much I can sometimes nudge it back into “EV-Assist”, but often I have to start the process all over again with “Regen” to “Glide” to “EV-Assist”.

EV-Assist

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/506/Mode3_EV-Glide_with_Assist.JPG
Attempting to maintain a higher speed with “EV-Assist”.
Using the Three Modes

Regen: I see “Regen” nearly every time I let up on the gas to slow down for a signal or stop sign, exit off the freeway, or go downhill. I can control the amount of “Regen” I want, basically trading off Charging the battery for speed, but more importantly for FE. If I feel I could use Charge more than Speed, I’ll allow the maximum amount of “Regen”. However, I might want to maintain speed on a downhill because I see another uphill coming so then I’ll cancel “Regen”. I will discuss more “Regen” effects on FE and my slowing/braking process later in the article.

Glide: The majority of time on the freeways I find myself in a low load ICE-On condition without the iFCD necessarily at 100 mpg but as high as I can make it with no visible Assist or Charge bars. Since I don’t find “EV-Assist” sustainable for long periods at high speeds, I am quite happy in either “Glide” or the ICE-On at a very low load with 75 or higher mpg on the iFCD, otherwise known as DWL. Technically DWL means holding the iFCD constant while allowing your speed to vary as necessary, which is especially useful on smaller hills and overpasses. On level roads I simply try to max the iFCD as high possible. If that is 75 - 95 mpg, I am quite content and leave EV mode alone ;)

EV-Assist: In city driving, with few traffic lights, I find it easy to hold the iFCD at > 90 mpg and often cross between low load ICE-On, “Glide”, and “EV-Assist” modes easily. “EV-Assist” is fun and seems to be what most HCH-II drivers want to practice but it is costly to my SoC if I abuse it. I try to be sparing with this EV mode, but again it’s a tradeoff in different circumstances. If my battery’s full and I see a great segment in the making, I’ll use it. If I’m heading downhill, often I will find myself drifting into and out of “EV-Assist” and I’ll maintain this but will not force it. It is great fun for example, getting up a good head of steam then easing into “EV-Assist” with up to 3 bars of Assist, and being able to climb up and over a short hill using that Assist. (I must go for cheap thrills :)) In city driving, I will use “EV-Assist” more, especially at low speeds. Which brings me to describe an interesting variant of this mode.

DWL

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/506/DWL.JPG
DWL - Maintaining 85 mpg on the iFCD at 52 mph

Variant of “EV-Assist” mode at 1000 RPM’s

Most HCH-II owners are familiar with engaging “EV-Assist” at high speeds in the sequence described above: First coasting with “Regen”, canceling “Regen” with accelerator pedal pressure to allow “Glide” and continuing with even more accelerator pedal pressure until “EV-Assist” appears with bars in the Assist display. However, the HCH-II also appears to be able to go directly into “EV-Assist” mode at low speeds (< 35 mph) and also appears to do this from a dead stop under certain conditions. I say “appears to” because all the reports I’ve read regarding “EV-Assist” for the HCH-II say it does not have this capability, which is one of the main differences from the Prius. I have experimented with this variant at least a couple dozen times now and can find no better explanation for what I am seeing? It only seems to work when my car is well warmed up, such as right after exiting off the freeway.

From a stop, it would look like the following: I accelerate very slowly using “feather light” acceleration, with tach at 1000 RPMs heading up to 12-15 mph. It is best done either in very heavy traffic or in light traffic with no cars behind you. I see one or two bars of assist at the same time as I (barely) press the accelerator pedal. At the same time as speed increases and assist appears, I observe the iFCD swing quickly and smoothly to the right. It will stay pinned at 100 mpg, while I level off speed, staying somewhere under 20 mph. The assist bars remain, typically varying from one to three. The car is very quiet and once at steady speed the gauges are indistinguishable from normal “EV-Assist” mode. I feel the tell-tale bump and see the iFCD drop as soon as I raise the tach above 1K RPM. However as soon as it drops back to 1K I can easily pin the iFCD back at 100 mpg, see the Assist bars, and drive along some more in “EV-Assist”. So the 1K RPM tach seems to be the key here. Of course one does not usually want to accelerate this slowly, so it is not that useful a feature to exploit on a daily basis. However it is extremely easy to decelerate into “EV-Assist” mode during normal city driving, which I’ll return to in a minute.

I want to go into a bit more detail here about how accelerating into “EV-Assist” looks different from a normal “EV-Assist” mode.

1. I see Assist bars immediately with accelerator pressure. Normally I don’t expect to see Assist at slow accel (and in normal driving I try to accelerate with minimum assist.)

2. Unlike the typical “Regen”-“Glide”-“EV-Assist” sequence with “Regen” appearing first and then “EV-Assist”, “Regen” does not enter into the sequence at all.

3. It is odd to watch my iFCD rise during accelerations. Normally during accel, the instantaneous stays close to zero until you’ve leveled off speed somewhat, then rises. Under this variant, the iFCD rises immediately like an invisible hand pulling it up.

4. This variant stays much more constant than when in “EV-Assist” at higher speeds. At high speeds if I drop out of EV, I usually have to go through the sequence of “Regen” to “Glide” again to re-engage it. At low speeds however, as long as I stay at 1000 RPM’s I can stay in “EV-Assist” a very long time, and re-enter easily, if needed. The Assist bars rise and fall directly with gas pressure. If I let up on the gas enough, the Assist bars drop out but iFCD will stay pinned at max, I’m in “Glide”, ready to go right into “EV-Assist” again. If I’m briefly too hard on the accelerator to where the iFCD falls, I just ease up enough to get the tach back to 1K, get the Assist bars right back, and iFCD pinned at max again.

5. I do not observe much bleed-off of speed, if any, as I do when in high-speed “EV-Assist”. I sure would love to drive around a huge empty parking lot some Sunday morning, with at least 2 bars of assist and test how far my odometer increases, FE climbs, and battery SoC can go driving in this manner.


http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/506/EV_Acceleration_1.jpg http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/506/EV_Acceleration_2.jpg
Accelerating in “EV-Assist” at 11 mph - iFCD pegged. Still Accelerating in “EV-Assist” at 12 mph - iFCD pegged.

On city streets I find extremely easy to decelerate into the 1K RPM “EV-Assist” mode from higher speeds, as long as I get my tach down and keep it there. I had thought 25 mph was about the fastest I could go at 1000 RPMs, but recently I noticed I could go at > 30 mph as well. It’s very useful when I enter a large mall parking lot or quiet residential neighborhood. In that setting I can hear the difference in quietness of the engine compared with regular driving. Anytime I am city driving in the 20 – 30 mph range I can transition into this mode. In fact, I am quite sure many HCH-II drivers have often been into this mode at this low tach, but perhaps have not realized it?

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/506/27_mph_slow_EV.jpg http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/506/32_mph_slow_EV.jpg
Low RPM - “EV-Assist” at 27 mph. Low RPM - “EV-Assist” at 32 mph.

However … this low-speed version of EV-Assist hits my SoC just as hard as the equivalent higher-speed mode does so I try not to over use it. I’ll describe some of the effects of pack overuse later in the article.

iFCD “recal” while in “Glide”

Green&Blue first reported this unique mode/feature in the thread entitled HCH-II on electric only (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5974#post5974) and I hoped to try and fit it into this article if I could reproduce it. Luckily I have, so if Mark does not mind, I will summarize his description here. Basically what happens is that while in a “Glide”, between 30 - 42 mph and the iFCD maxed, the iFCD will unexpectedly drop to nearly zero and then does a jerky crawl back up towards 100 mpg again and stays there. I have only seen this happen when my engine is starting from cold, and I'm heading down a slight hill. When this happens I do not see the aFCD increase as I would expect from going downhill, but can't be sure if that's due to the cold startup or some effect of the recal. Mark however reports he can maintain this longer than “EV-Assist” mode and at higher speeds too! I can attest that it’s unusual to see the instantaneous suddenly drop for no apparent reason. The typical driver reaction is to wonder WTH happened and immediately lighten your right foot to make it go back to the right. If you’re patient and maintain the exact same foot pressure, the iFCD will climb back up all by itself (with a samba rhythm) and remain pretty steady up there. It appears to be some sort of recalibration although iFCD’s should not be affected by this phenomena knowing what we know today?

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Section III - How it’s accomplished

Braking & Managing your SoC

The topic of slowing and/or braking to a stop will be a good lead into “Regen” and SoC management. On city streets, my goal is to try and maintain a large buffer in front of me (DWB) and anticipate traffic and traffic signals. Of course there are times I have to brake and depending on my SoC, I’ll try to make braking work for me by coasting into the stop without “Regen” in a “Glide” for as long as possible in order to maximize FE. In the recent past, I had not consistently done this as I believed maximizing “Regen” was more a cost to speed, not to FE. Then I realized the drag I felt must be costing me FE and Xcel gently confirmed that yes, charging during slowing and braking “Regen” can be just as costly to FE as a “Forced Charge” when the SoC dips too low. Now when exiting the freeway, I’ll glide to the off-ramp at 50 mph, just maintaining enough accelerator pedal pressure to cancel any bars of charge, then brake when I have to at much slower speeds about 100 feet from the stop or less if no traffic is behind.

Recently I was driving LA. city streets in heavy weekend traffic and found myself in “1K RPM EV-Assist”. I was able to maintain this mode consistently for some miles. Also as it happened, I was DWB through heavy traffic and residential side streets for maybe 5 - 8 miles. My FE was great and even rising on city streets. I was so proud of myself thinking that with this low speed “EV-Assist” and DWB combination, I can do just as well in town with my HCH-II as the Prius II can! Well … guess what happens when you rarely stop or allow “Regen” AND you have fairly constant “EV-Assist” appearing? It is a killer combo hit to your battery and that is exactly what happened. My SoC dropped down to 4 bars (8 is max) and on the way home I experienced “Forced charging” which brought my previously excellent FE back down to earth again. I had thought using EV at only higher speeds was the battery killer. As it turns out, it is not for me because I do not maintain “EV-Assist” for very long at freeway speeds. It is the city driving where I have to be very careful with my reliance on “EV-Assist”.

I find the SoC can vary from 5 to 7 bars in normal driving and even stay down at 5 bars without much effect on FE. However, when I get down to 4 bars or less, I can almost guarantee some “Forced charging” will rear its ugly head. If I am on the freeway, it lasts a short period of time over maybe a 3 - 5 mile period where I will see 4 - 5 Charging bars appear. During that time, I can expect maybe a 10 - 20 mpg hit to my then current instantaneous FE. When it subsides, my battery is fully charged again. More frequently than this major type of “Forced charging”, I’ll see just one green line of charge that shows up when I get down to 5 bars on the SoC. This single line appears while driving for a much longer period - sometimes for 8 - 10 miles. That also has some effect on my FE but not as strong as a major “Forced Charging” Event w/ 4 + bars appearing in the Charge display. Either way, the single charge line can persist even when my SoC has increased up to 7 bars and can return for several days which can be somewhat irritating.

Forced Charging

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/506/Forced_Charging.jpg
1-bar - Light Forced Charging

In most instances, hidden charging instead of the 1-line kind as shown above happens and the SoC will slowly tick back up to 7 bars as I drive with no visible green lines occurring.

I do not have a hard rule but generally when the SoC drops to 5 bars I’ll take advantage of “Regen” more to “manage” my SoC. In this case, if I am coasting to a stop, I will also apply light braking in order to maximize “Regen”. I will also avoid “EV-Assist”, stay more in ICE-On mode, maximize DWL, plan my accelerations to avoid Assist and hope I do not drive into a hilly area.

Techniques for hills

The HCH-II has a built-in tool to help the driver maximize FE when going up and down hills - the iFCD. Normally in a non-hybrid when driving hills, I used to maintain a constant speed, so I would spend more gas going up a hill and less gas when going down. Using DWL, instead of holding my speed steady, I hold the iFCD steady at a given target and allow my speed to vary as needed. This results in a sort of roller coaster effect where my automobile slows as I approach the crest, rebuilds speed on the down slope and repeat as necessary for the next small hill or overpass.

My other objective is to use the least possible Assist during the climb. One of the ways I’ve found to do that is by accelerating on the flat approach to the hill, then more or less coasting partway up the hill with less pressure on the accelerator pedal which keeps the iFCD up. That way I am using assist on the flat portion and not on the hill itself. I might increase speed from 55 to 60 mph on the flat portion, then allow it to droop to as low as 45 mph while climbing. On the descent, I find myself in “Regen” and try to cancel charge bars to maintain speed, unless there happens to be a stop at the bottom in which case I take all the “Regen” I am given with full "Regen" and possibly light mechanical braking to a stop.

The HCH-2 Accelerator Pedal

Here I would like to mention the accelerator pedal’s unique features, where I like to apply pressure, and the different ways I apply pressure depending what type of terrain I am traversing.

Foot Placement

The accelerator pedal is designed differently in the 8th generation Civics, as it’s attached to the floor with a bottom pivot. This may explain why I find I get the most control then, pressing at the very tip-top of the pedal. Same as what your basic physics textbook says about levers & fulcrums. Applying pressure at the top of the pedal lets me vary those minute increments of pressure more easily. This also means I have to hold my leg out higher so I’m hitting the top of the pedal with the ball of my foot. Sometimes my foot will shift around a bit as I drive but after about five thousand miles I’ve gotten used to holding it there. I have tried a wide variety of foot placements and this one may be a little tiring for some but I do believe it gives me the best FCD control.

Foot Pressure

Being able to apply the right pressure at the right time makes a big difference in FE. When I first tried EV mode for example, I found practicing a few times barefoot helped to get the knack of it. Then I drove with shoes as usual (but thin-soled) as naturally I felt safer with shoes and the stability the sole provides. Recently this summer I happened to take off my shoe again and was amazed at the difference. It seems that due to my foot having "learned" the pedal over 8 months with shoe-on, now with shoe-off, its sensitivity to the pedal is simply phenomenal. It’s as if I'd been typing with gloves on and finally took them off. Plus the sensitivity is two-way: Not only is my foot better able to fine-tune application of pressure, it can sense it from the pedal as well. For example, while pressing the pedal in EV-assist, there is a certain point of stiffness that tells me where to stop or I’ll get dumped back into ICE-on mode again. If you have been driving your HCH-II for a while now, and weather still permits, I highly recommend trying shoe-less at least once just to observe the difference.

The following are some of the different foot pressures I use every day:


Short steep hills - Pulse-off

During periods of intense climbing I will “Pulse off” my foot from the pedal a few times in short bursts, quickly returning to original accelerator pressure each time. Each back-off lowers the RPM’s and up shifts me into a higher gear more quickly. This is basically GaryG’s “Fake Shift” (but I didn’t connect this till just recently). I do not do it for battery charge though, just for the upshift-lowering of RPM’s effect. Of course this slows Acceleration a bit so I have to watch the traffic behind me.


Inclines - Constant slight foot lift

When on a fairly lengthy incline (over a mile for example), I constantly lift my foot just slightly off the pedal every few seconds. Enough to keep the iFCD to the right as much as possible. What I see is the iFCD slowly falling say to let us say 60 mpg, sharply rise up to 75 mpg, and slowly falling again. Hopefully with little to no decrease in speed.


DWL - Light foot

Basically let your iFCD display guide your right foot. You may think your pressure is light enough already, then the iFCD tells you it could be even lighter. During DWL, I have to continually stay alert that my iFCD is indeed maxed. Often it will drop somewhat when I swear neither terrain nor foot pressure has changed or I suddenly find it can be nudged slightly higher. So adjust foot pressure accordingly as you drive. It’s not called the “game gauge” for nothing ;)


“EV-Glide” - Feather pressure

Getting a feel for this one takes some time, however once my right foot "got it", it has become habitual. It is the same pressure I would use to engage “EV-Glide” at high speed, or “1K RPM EV-Glide Mode”. The best way I can describe it is this: rest your foot closely against the pedal without actually trying to push the pedal in. To increase pressure, continue pressing against (but not pushing) the pedal. If you are new to this or have difficulty, I recommend trying it shoeless. Again, your gauges will tell you if you’re doing it correctly. In a non-hybrid this sort of foot pressure would probably have no effect whatsoever, however it is quite clear that the HCH-II can respond to more subtle variations in pressure than you could possibly imagine.


WOT (Wide Open Throttle) - Only to avoid a potential accident, otherwise never :eek:
Factors that Most Improve FE

Following are some thoughts regarding what I've found seems to have the most impact on improving FE. The first one could apply no matter what car you drive, the second one is addressed more specifically to the HCH-II.

Keep a daily segment diary

If you have a reliable daily driving routine, I’ve found keeping a diary of your segments a most valuable tool. It works on the same principle as recording what you eat when you go on a diet. Having a record helps you correlate your recorded FE with your drive that day so you can figure out what factors might be working for or against you on the drive and learn to work with them. It also gives you a daily benchmark to beat and keeps you focused on improvement. The best way is to record repeatable segments such as your drive to work and home (without including extraneous trips). After recording these for just a week or two I started to notice where my FE was rising or falling. I used my Trip-A odometer for recording daily segments, and my Trip-B odometer for keeping track of the tank mileage.

For example, I know that I get better FE on my drive to work because it’s slightly downhill and my FE coming from work is worse because it is (naturally) slightly uphill. Working with that knowledge I know that on the way home, DWL is what I want to maximize as much as possible. On the way to work, I want to take advantage of all the opportunities for “EV-Assist” or “Glide” that I can on the downward slopes.

You will also start to guess fairly accurately what your FE should be at different stages of your segment. For example, I know mine should be nearing the 40’s by the time I get to the freeway. After the first interchange, I should be in the high 40’s. After the main freeway portion, I should be in the 60’s. Finally, once I near work on surface streets, I expect a drop of several mpg because that part is more uphill. If I don't reach these benchmarks (or achieve even higher FE), I notice and wonder what happened and/or where I can improve the next drive to or from work. It could be for example there was a traffic jam that slowed me by 5 mph more than I would usually have gone. The light bulbs start coming on like going 5 mph slower can raise my FE THAT much? What if I purposely go slower tomorrow, can I repeat the result?

The shorter segments you record, the more clearly changes in FE along the way will jump out at you. That is just because the trip meter is more sensitive to changes over a few miles, than over many miles. If you are a good data taker and really obsessed with raising FE, you could break a particularly long segment down into several short ones (as far as recording from your trip aFCD). This is like hitting the problem with a 10-ton hammer but higher FE is virtually guaranteed. If you had say a 50 mile drive from home to work where you take several freeways, you could break it into a segment for each. You may need a small pad and pencil, or better yet, a hands-free voice activated recorder so you can note your Trip-A mpg each time you reset it for the next segment.

Breaking large segments into smaller ones in this manner will give you great feedback as to what speed and basic tools work best. Afterwards, you can work on optimizing each individual segment. This part is pretty exciting and it is literally impossible not to learn fairly quickly what works and what doesn’t. Eventually, your FE will plateau along with your learning curve and once you start seeing your data stabilize you will want to aggregate it back to 1-way segments, and eventually to round-trip segments only.

Finally, be sure to take full advantage of any early high FE in a segment. Most of my record segments started with unusually high FE almost from the beginning. It may have been a result of either skill, luck or a good tailwind but if handed a gift in your first few miles, use it to build upon. However, the only way to see this happen is if you are recording segments and zeroing your trip meter. The point here is do not discount high FE at the beginning of a segment as short-lived. Yes a good stomp on the accelerator can easily undo all the good but if you maintain your normal good driving habits from that beginning high point, you can maintain that margin and your segment will end up even better than expected!

Slow, Even Driving and Longer Segments

My impressions after 8000 + miles are that the HCH-II likes nice, slow, and constant speed segments. That is one reason I have found that DWB and reduced speed is so helpful to my own FE. The speed test results - especially at the low end - also convinced me of this. Second, I would have to acknowledge it is more difficult to beat the EPA if you only drive your HCH-II a few miles a day in the city. Certainly not saying it cannot be achieved, just that one has to work harder to do it. My take is that the HCH-II likes having room to build FE, so the more miles you give it, the more mpg’s it can achieve. As mentioned in the speed test results, there was a big difference from the results of the one-mile test at 60 mph which averaged 55 mpg -- and my informal 10-mile test that came in at 75 mpg. That tends to make me a believer that short segments just are not going to give you the same FE as longer ones.

In Closing ...

To recap, try to use the accelerator pedal very lightly during any acceleration, keep as low and steady a speed as possible for maximum FE, DWL and DWB to maximize the HCH-II’s potential in traffic and while traversing low hills and overpasses, use your various EV/Glide modes with a light use of “EV-Assist” when and where it can be exploited for maximum gain, maintain a good record of FE at various check points along your daily route so as to monitor progress to your target FE, and keep your HCH-II well set up.

There are other even more advanced driving techniques that can and should be exploited which I haven’t touched upon in this article. With them, the FE possibilities of the HCH-II may even breach those available from the Insight 5-speed at low speed highway cruise or the Prius II under a low to mid-speed P&G scenario. Even without the advanced hypermiling techniques, the HCH-II should be good for ~ 50% above the combined EPA using these basic techniques and exploiting the HCH-II’s built-in features when appropriate. I hope you find a number of these techniques useful to improve upon your own HCH-II’s FE.

Finally, I would like to thank Xcel for the huge compliment of asking me to write up this HCH-II FE article considering how little I know about cars, and that there are many better hypermilers out there. I have found asking Wayne about FE techniques can be a little like walking in front of a fire hose ;) however I’ve found his input priceless and his patience and support invaluable.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/506/2006_Civic_Hybrid_07.jpg
The 2006 HCH-II - Capable of Insight like FE with a little help from you.

tbaleno
06-30-2006, 01:27 AM
WOW! Great article. Nice work Tarabell you did a great job on this article. And thanks wayne for doing some editing to make sure it was as close to perfect as it can be.

philmcneal
06-30-2006, 05:37 AM
thanks for making a fantasy complete when it comes to hypermiling in a HCHII that was a very entertaining read, I love the pics! I can't wait for the future articles to boot.

tigerhonaker
06-30-2006, 07:17 AM
Tara,

I don't think there are enough words that I know in the English Language to describe the Article and Effort that you (Tara) and Xcel (Wayne, Editing Article). It is just FANTASTIC and so "Down-to-Earth" for all that own the HCH II. This just gives HCH II owners everything they will ever need (IMO) to Increase their FE if they put out just a little effort.

The pictures are just "Icing" on the cake I think. Words with Pics to complete the story. I hope that there will be many-many owners that will have the opportunity to read this "Most-Complete-Article" on increasing HCH II FE.

I have read all kinds of Articles and I have to say that this is a real Eye Catcher. All the Facts and Pics to go with the Facts. Just simply a {FANTASTIC-JOB}.

Last Comment: "Great Job" :D :D :D

Terry

tarabell
06-30-2006, 08:37 AM
Thanks so much Tom, Phil and Terry -- as I told Wayne, the pleasure was really all mine. :)

I feel bad about the length -- guess I got a little too into it and it really put him through the wringer to get it ready. ;)

HyChi
06-30-2006, 08:43 AM
Thank you, Tarabell, for putting it all down on "paper". The attention to detail is amazing. You were able to perfectly capture in easy to understand terminology the experience of driving the HCH2. This is a "must read" for any driver of the HCH2 as it will answer so many of their questions. Thanks to everyone for putting this extremely valuable resource on the web.

xcel
06-30-2006, 10:49 AM
Hi Tarabell:

___I remember when first asking you if you would be interested in writing up your experiences with the HCH-II, I had no idea it would turn into this masterpiece! After seeing a few of your better segments and posts here, I knew you would be perfect for bringing a not so overly technical perspective to all HCH-II owners. You have far exceeded those expectations and I want to personally thank you for the long hours of placing actual behind the wheel thoughts and experiences to paper in an easy to comprehend and all-encompassing write-up for all. In fact, Honda should be the one congratulating you for making the HCH-II a much desired automobile given I want one to play with now too :D

___To everyone else, the rough draft of the “Adapting Basic Hypermiling Techniques to the HCH-II” article was over 26 pages long! I can only imagine the multiple days and weeks spent writing and re-writing the various drafts to come up with the final let alone the last 3 days of frantic PM’s and E-Mail’s back and forth to make sure my format changes did not change the intent of what she had written. I know how much time I spent on the edit and format changes and that would pale by comparison to what Tarabell had to donate while putting the whole thing together.

___Tarabell, thank you for the most well written article on any hybrid I have ever read! The CleanMPG hat and shirt we will eventually get out to you (when we actually come up with something ;)) will never be able to repay you for your time and effort but hopefully HCH-II owners around the world will take your experiences and run with them for the benefit of all.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

hobbit
06-30-2006, 12:53 PM
One quick question -- how did you get all the formatting to work
through the form-submit interface here, which seems to take
several liberties with the text I type in, such as eliminating blank lines and double-spaces after sentences?
Trying to work around that is one reason I do this stupid thing with dots.
.
_H*

tbaleno
06-30-2006, 01:00 PM
I don't have

problems

with spaces between lines

Are you using the basic or advanced editor? I use the basic editor under quick reply, or the new thread button and the basic editor.

hobbit
06-30-2006, 02:00 PM
I use basic, because I'm coming at this with "lynx" on a unix
box and it hands me a bunch of lines to fill in. But unless I
put *something* non-blank or non-space on each line, they get
eliminated in the process of submission or database-entry or
display, I haven't figured out where yet. But this happens
pretty uniformly here and on other similar forum software.
.
Anyways ... great rundown. I see *so* many concepts in that
article that map almost *directly* over to the Prius, and I'll
bet the high-speed EV is the HCH version of "warp stealth". But
the HCH has the advantage that it can keep the valves closed
*completely* and thus likely create even less engine-drag
friction. All the prius can do is fiddle the valve timing to
minimize net airflow and try to retain heat, but the valves are
still threshin' open and closed in there.
.
_H*

brick
06-30-2006, 10:32 PM
Great article! That suggestion of keeping a daily log is a good one, and advice I have decided to take. As for the rest, it looks like an absolute gold mine to HCH-II drivers who are trying to learn the ropes. Hopefully some of the folks who recently have been asking questions over at GH will run across this. The detail presented here really adds depth to the basic advice. Congratulations on such a fine piece of work!

meggert
07-01-2006, 09:34 AM
Tarabell, thank you for the great article!

I would like to print it out but I've had no luck getting it to print properly as the right side keeps getting cut off. I've tried a straight print of the article, I've changed to the "Printable version", and I've even tried setting my printer to landscape to no avail. Can anyone help me? Has anyone been able to print the article? I think it has something to do with the formatting for the photos and tables that Wayne used.

Thanks,
Mark

P.S. I do I get my mpg to show in my posts?

xcel
07-01-2006, 10:15 AM
Hi Meggert:

___The tables and pic format might make it tough for some printers … What you can do is copy the entire article to Word and print from there. I just did this to make sure it would print properly and it did. 23 pages worth! The pics line up on top of one another vs. side by side but is still very easy to understand.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

meggert
07-01-2006, 11:37 AM
Hi Wayne,
Thanks for the tip. The highlight, copy and paste into Word worked fine. I did change my margins to .5" on top, left, and right and .7" on bottom (so I could add page numbers), this brought the page count down to 18 and the photos lined up side by side.

This is a valuable resource I plan on using, so it's good to have in a printed format.

Oh, on added my mpg to my posts, what is the trick?

Regards,
Mark

Hot Georgia
07-02-2006, 05:44 AM
Thanks for that great article Tarabell, I have some studying to do!

I've never seen the inside of a HCH-II, let alone drive one and this is about as close as it comes.

GaryG
07-02-2006, 10:43 PM
Hello Tarabell

Excellent article with great pics and data. You confirm many of the techniques and findings that I use and bring up some things I’ll be testing in my FEH. If CleanMPG continues to put out information like this, it will grow far beyond anyone’s dreams.

The point you stated you use the FS for reducing RPM’s was my first goal, but later I found many other uses for it. I seldom use the FS for RPM reduction now, because I control RPM’s before they start getting out of control. A member here sent me a PM with a link to a site that had the torque curves of Atkinson FEH ICE. When I accelerate, I know where to go on the RPM scale for the best torque for faster acceleration when needed. If WOT is required, of course I use that only in emergencies or if FE calls for it (Red light), I use it for a very short burst.

Very glad to see you here on CleanMPG. I’ve given you the name of Tara (terror) On Wheels because I know the other HCH owners are going to wish they could get the FE that you are and will be getting. Just when you think you’ve maxed a hybrid out, you find something that will increase your FE even more.

Good Luck

GaryG

tarabell
07-05-2006, 11:09 AM
Gary -- that “terror” phrase put the hugest smile on my face –great feedback on the FS too.

To all -- I’m so glad so many of you find this useful.

hobbit
07-05-2006, 01:52 PM
Care to share said torque-curve link? It would be nice to compare
to the one for the Prius that I hang out at techno-fandom.
.
_H*

msantos
07-05-2006, 02:49 PM
Tarabell, I second what others have stated. Excellent article !!!

And most of all, a big Thank You for putting in the effort to produce a consolidated wealth of information about improving the FE on our HC-II vehicles. I thought I was actually doing OK (milleage wise) given that my car is not yet broken in. But with your observations and the tips you presented - it just got that much better.
My milleage has actually increased even more because now I have a better understanding of what's going on and what to do instead of discovering it through pure experiementation and error on my own. :D

Of course much of this contentment will soon disappear as in 4 to 6 months the frigid temps will hit us (in the north), and then I'll have to figure out ways of maximizing milleage in extreme cold weather. :rolleyes: but that is another story.

Best regards;

MS

tigerhonaker
07-05-2006, 08:48 PM
Tarabell, I second what others have stated. Excellent article !!!

And most of all, a big Thank You for putting in the effort to produce a consolidated wealth of information about improving the FE on our HC-II vehicles. I thought I was actually doing OK (milleage wise) given that my car is not yet broken in. But with your observations and the tips you presented - it just got that much better.
My milleage has actually increased even more because now I have a better understanding of what's going on and what to do instead of discovering it through pure experiementation and error on my own. :D

Of course much of this contentment will soon disappear as in 4 to 6 months the frigid temps will hit us (in the north), and then I'll have to figure out ways of maximizing milleage in extreme cold weather. :rolleyes: but that is another story.

Best regards;

MS

msantos;

Hi and it looks like this is your 1st Post on CleanMPG.

So without further to do: :)

:D WELCOME TO: :D www.CleanMPG.com (http://www.CleanMPG.com)

Terry

msantos
07-07-2006, 08:54 AM
Thanks.

I have been visiting this and other similar sites for some time now... gee come to think about it... my interests in green car technology go back quite a few years.:D

Anyhow, most of us will agree that it is pretty hard to realize the potential of our hybrid vehicles by relying solely on the Users's Manual and the kind "expertise" of your local dealerships. That's why sites like this one are so important. As a whole we can amalgamate quite a knowledgebase on what works and doesn't - all for the common goal of saving gas, the environment, and in the long run perhaps a little more than just money.

I just thought that when an individual such as Tarabell places this kind of effort into something that helps a larger groupo of individuals (if not a cause), it ought to be acknowledged. :)

That's why I registered my first post - just to say thank you... and HI to all!! :D


MS

tigerhonaker
07-08-2006, 08:40 PM
Thanks.

I have been visiting this and other similar sites for some time now... gee come to think about it... my interests in green car technology go back quite a few years.:D

Anyhow, most of us will agree that it is pretty hard to realize the potential of our hybrid vehicles by relying solely on the Users's Manual and the kind "expertise" of your local dealerships. That's why sites like this one are so important. As a whole we can amalgamate quite a knowledgebase on what works and doesn't - all for the common goal of saving gas, the environment, and in the long run perhaps a little more than just money.

I just thought that when an individual such as Tarabell places this kind of effort into something that helps a larger groupo of individuals (if not a cause), it ought to be acknowledged. :)

That's why I registered my first post - just to say thank you... and HI to all!! :D


MS

Hi msantos,

We have some other members from Canada and certainly hope that more will come here to www.CleanMPG.com

Tarabell, did a Fantastic job on her Article as well as the gentleman (Xcel) that did the editing of the Article with Tarabell. Nice words from you and I'm sure Tarabell and (Xcel) will appreciate them.

Don't be a {Stranger} come and visit frequently and hope you will continue to enjoy this "Forum". :)

Regards,

Terry

tigerhonaker
07-09-2006, 02:22 PM
Tara,

I think you will find "My-Post" to be Dead On Target. :p

http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/showthread.php?p=72936#post72936

Your Pal, ;)

Tiger

xcel
07-09-2006, 02:28 PM
Hi Terry:

___If I did not know any better, I would almost bet you work for Barnum and Baileys “Greatest Show on Earth” … or love your HCH-II just as much as Tarabell does ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

tigerhonaker
07-10-2006, 08:54 PM
Tarabell, Wayne,

Just received this E-Mail Notice from GH. Thought (You-Both) might enjoy the "Words". ;)
************************************************************************************************************

Today, 06:10 AM
PCK (http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/member.php?u=3232) http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/images/misc/im_msn.gif (http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/adapting-basic-hypermiling-techniques-to-the-hch-ii.8438.html#) http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/images/misc/im_yahoo.gif (http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/adapting-basic-hypermiling-techniques-to-the-hch-ii.8438.html#)
Enthusiast


Real Name: Perry
Location: South Florida
Hybrids: 2006 HCH w/Nav
Age: 48
Posts: 38


http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/images/icons/icon1.gif Re: Adapting Basic Hypermiling Techniques to the HCH-II



Thanks for posting that here it is a very well thought out and written article.

http://www.greenhybrid.com/images/spacer.gif
http://www.greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/car/1876/signature.png (http://www.greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/car/1876.html)

**********************************************************************************************************


This is taken from, GH
Adapting Basic Hypermiling Techniques to the HCH-II ... 2-Replies... 151 Views and Climbing :)
tigerhonaker Today 07:33 PM
by tigerhonaker
**********************************************************************************************************

Terry

wburke8302
07-11-2006, 12:30 PM
This is a great article. I'm anxious to try some of the techniques to see if I can improve my mileage significantly. Thanks for all the hard work in putting this together!

tigerhonaker
07-11-2006, 07:19 PM
This is a great article. I'm anxious to try some of the techniques to see if I can improve my mileage significantly. Thanks for all the hard work in putting this together!

Say if I did not say this earlier and I should have.

Welcome to www.CleanMPG.com (http://www.CleanMPG.com) :D

And now that I have your Attention. Are you going to put a little time aside and go to www.Hybridfest.com (http://www.Hybridfest.com) 2006. It is the 22nd of July in Madison, WI. Saturday. I live in Frankin, TN. and will be driving up on Thursday for the Event on Saturday.

Come on and drive up and meet the Administrators of www.CleanMPG.com (http://www.CleanMPG.com) in {Person}. I will introduce you to them myself. That means there will be more than 1-person from TN. at www.Hybridfest.com (http://www.Hybridfest.com) 2006.

Terry

Regaj
07-20-2006, 10:09 AM
Tarabell, like others, I just want to add my thanks for your efforts in writing what clearly is the definitive article on optimizing FE techniques in the HCH II. I was pointed to your article while browsing greenhybrid (thanks, Tiger, for posting that link) a couple weeks back. Your article was no small part of my decision to go ahead and pull the trigger on a new HCH II (my first hybrid). I picked it up last night and, with the fresh benefit of 70-odd miles on the car, read your article again this morning (some of the nuances you describe make more sense after actually having driven the car). I'm psyched about exploring all the techniques you talk about.

Many thanks for taking the time...

Jeff

tarabell
07-20-2006, 11:34 AM
Jeff,
Since our usual welcoming committee is on hiatus, let me say hello and I'm very glad you joined our group here. As a new hybrid-owner myself I found driving this car quite a learning curve. I bought it mainly for the HOV stickers and assumed the increased mileage would require no effort on my part. Then...oh the irony....I found the actual fun part of driving it was in the effort.

Hope to hear your experiences and observations!

MoGryph
07-23-2006, 12:15 PM
Tarabell- I want to add my thanks to the long list from others. I'm so glad I was able to find an article that explained so much, so early after buying my new HCH-II.

I just bought it 2 weeks ago, and have been using your wonderful techniques. I haven't seen the great FE that you have, but then again, there's no way for me to get anywhere I need to get, without hitting huge hills over and over again.

I do have a question, for you, or anyone else that wants to answer- do any of you actually notice, or "feel" the assist? I've tried to see if I could notice, climbed some fairly acute angle hills (very low slope), had my FE at 100, and slowly got my Assist up to 3-4 bars, but haven't been able to notice any differene between a Glide (0 bars both directions) and an Assist of 3-4. Is it possible that the Assist is just being shown, but isn't really working? (I assume it must be working, since my charge level's gone up and down quite a bit)

Thanks,

MoGryph

tarabell
07-23-2006, 04:19 PM
I do have a question, for you, or anyone else that wants to answer- do any of you actually notice, or "feel" the assist?

Welcome MoGryph! Personally no, I can't detect or hear any difference between Glide and EV-Assist modes either. The electric motor seems to operate silently. I can feel and hear a slight difference when the ICE comes back on though. Your gauges are telling you the story. Enjoy your car and feel free to post more if you need help with those hills or anything else ;)

MoGryph
07-23-2006, 04:44 PM
Thanks Tarabell. It is a comfort to know that it's not just me.

I've been using all the techniques you've mentioned- I'm sure people are giving me the finger on the highway (65 mph, I'm P&G, rr at 65-50) but I avert my eyes from the left lanes :p

I have gone from around 46 mpg in my first 150 miles (driving by experiment), to between 50.1 and 52 on this fresh fill up (driving with your tips,) for the past 160 miles, but, that's not calculated at the pump. If it's anywhere near correct, considering all the hills around here, I must be doing something right, but I can't get over the feeling that I wouldn't notice any difference between 0 assist, and 4 bars. * shrug *
I'll just have to keep playing. :)

exbauer
07-31-2006, 10:53 AM
thanks for the write up. after reading this i used some of the tips and got a higher mpg than i usually do on the same route...41ish to 46.6 this morning. we will see how the commute home this afternoon goes.

tigerhonaker
07-31-2006, 09:47 PM
thanks for the write up. after reading this i used some of the tips and got a higher mpg than i usually do on the same route...41ish to 46.6 this morning. we will see how the commute home this afternoon goes.
Welcome to CleanMPG. Looks like your 1st Post here. Nice always to see a New Name show up here on the Forum.

Terry (tiger)

rhwinger
08-05-2006, 07:26 AM
I'll add a "Thanks" as well. I was initially getting 46-49 GPM on my commute. After reding your tips, it's up to the mid '50s. Once I made a radical route change and the run came in at 65.1 MPG!

Sent a hyperlink for this article to the salesman at the dealership asking him to let other customers know about this great source of info.

"Every Mile $tarves a Terrori$t!"

MoGryph
08-21-2006, 01:02 AM
Well, over a month of driving my new HCH-II, I've gotten my averages much farther up. In my last post, I mentioned that I got 50.1 to 52 MPG in my typical segment to/from work. Since then, I've actually increased that to 55-65 MPG.

Originally, I was getting better FE from driving on the highway, than on the back-roads. Both have extereme hills, but after learning and practicing your list of techniques, I've definately increased my back-road FE.
There are just a couple of things you might like to add- at least, these are things that I've personally noticed:

1) I don't want to knock the P&G technique, but as you mentioned, on certain terrain, it's not easy, or for that matter even feasible. Although with much of my commute, I have large hills, with a few parts I have some gradual rolling hills. P&G at slower speeds (20-40) on this type of terrain can sometimes be exteremely annoying, because you'll find yourself slowing down much faster than you want to, while gliding, and then having to use up precious fuel to work yourself up from b-speed, back up to a-speed. In many situations like this, I've found that it's better to get up to speed, and as quickly as possible, get my iFCS up to the 80/90 MPG zone. I can even sometimes, if I can get my foot pressure just right, get it up to 100 MPG. I've been able to hold it in this area (slightly dropping down to 75 MPG for small segments, then bringing it back up), for about the same distance as I'd have to P&G at least 5 or 6 times, and it's my belief that I'm getting much better FE by this technique. Don't get me wrong though, if there's enough of a decline where I don't loose considerable speed for a long enough distance, I still prefer the Glide mode, as it is FE that is immeasurable, but otherwise, the accels I need to go through to get back up to speed seem to use much more fuel, than the glides tend to make up for.

2) You mentioned briefly how 40 MPH is about the optimal speed for FE, however, I think some people might not understand why this is, and might just gloss over it, so I think you may have sold it a little short, and I believe I can explain why 40 is better than less than 40.
40 MPH seems to be the lowest magic number to be able to easily coerce the car between ICE-On, and ICE-Off. Anything lower than 40 MPH, and it takes the patience and preciceness of a doctor's hands, in your foot, to be able to keep the ICE from kicking on while gliding. I've tried this a number of times, and 40 definately seems to be some sort of hurdle point to allow you to do it with somewhat ease. Even at 39, bumps in the road can sometimes bounce your foot and everything in the car enough to push it into ICE-On while attempting to glide. And the more you pump up your tires above the "recommended level", the more you'll notice those bumps.

I'm also working on a third point, about what I call the "Magical Speeds", but I'm still trying to work them out more myself. There seems to me, to be 2 magic speeds where you can easily hold MPG at special points.
At or around 30MPH, I feel like I can hold my iFCS around 50 MPG even with gradual changes in my accel pedal., and the iFCS seems to "stick" right on the 50 MPG mark.
At around 40 MPH, I notice the same thing, but with what I believe is the 75 MPG mark.
If anyone else has noticed this, please post, so I know this isn't all just in my mind (or foot, :) ), otherwise, I'll just keep watching this, and try to figure out a better or more precise way of explaining what I've noticed.

Anyhow, I just thought I'd add those points to give back a little.

-Mo

xcel
08-21-2006, 05:57 AM
Hi MoGryph:

___I do not believe Tarabell was actually discussing a full blown P&G regiment in the HCH-II article as she was trying to avoid the manual manipulations so as to keep the article on track for those that want to use the built in EV-Glide modes, not the manual tools the hypermilers like myself would use whenever and wherever appropriate. A full blown P&G regiment is not only a very advanced technique/approach for max gain in the HCH-II; you have to take manual control to maximize its effect. Tarabell made it quite clear to me that she wanted to discuss the built in HCH-II EV-Glide modes in her descriptions, explanations, and pictures to minimize confusion yet still provide the average new HCH-II driver every opportunity to achieve excellent FE improvements without actually having to take control via manual means in which most new owners would find very uncomfortable at best …

___Even with my own hour or so behind the windscreen of Terry’s HCH-II, I still do not know where the proper rates and ranges are let alone pretending that this is even close to the best you would ever achieve over any given RT segment … I hope the following pic should dissuade any comparisons regarding a manually controlled P&G regiment vs. the built in EV-Glide modes as Tarabell has described in great detail within her article.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/504/103_0_mpg_19_5_miles.jpg

___About your situation #1. You may have a hill(s) in which DWL or Glide coming into a trough leads to a far to slow an approach speed for the ascent ahead to maintain a given slower speed target and if so, a slower speed Glide transitioning into DWL will/could fall apart? With too slow of an approach before the ascent and a heavy accel needed to maintain some minimum during that ascent, you can bet your FE will get killed. By all appearances, you are attempting to match your trough speeds so as to maintain some minimum while nearing the following crest but remember, each hill and valley has to handled slightly differently. There is no way for an article or even a paragraph to describe the exact approach speed and or technique for a given rise of 20’, 35’ 75’, 175’ with a descent of 1/2, 3/4, 1:1 of said rise or more over a given distance of 300’, 750’, 2050’, or even a mile? The description(s) simply becomes too complicated with the varying terrain, road and traffic conditions … This is where the art of hypermiling comes in, not the science. Given your Connecticut location, you may be facing terrain quite a bit tougher then what many of us have to face on a daily basis … or possibly not? I can say that rolling hills with ~ 50’ deltas over ¼ mile rises and falls with at most maybe ½ - ¾ of a mile between crests is the type of hills where an HCH-II using its built in EV-Glide tools could possibly approach and even maintain a 100 + mpg segment in a pseudo P&G type regiment. Whether you live in an area where you could take advantage of this kind of terrain with limited traffic speeds is a question I now have of your daily commute?

___Situation #2. Look at her CC and non-CC rated 30 and 40 mph FE data. I am sure your results are mirroring some of what she has achieved but what she has also explained. At 30 mph without CC, I have seen the HCH-II dropping into and out of EV-Glide (I saw this time and again just last Saturday afternoon with 2 new HCH-II drivers in fact) and we all know how a small amount of EV and into Glide can push a shorter FE measured segment into the stratosphere! See some of my thoughts as to what the HCH-II’s ECU may think is going on in the region below …

___Finally about the iFCD at ~ 30 mph. I believe the HCH-II’s CVT is still moving the belt up and down the pulleys (hunting for lack of a better term) looking for the minimum load with adequate torque to maintain a given/demanded speed via torque demand. By 40 + mph, I can almost bet the CVT is locked up tight with the largest side/smallest side pulleys and belt set to their highest ratios and thus the higher FE at ~ 40 in CC then without rather then the CVT still hunting somewhat at 35 mph and below. This would be a guess since I have so few hours behind the wheel of an HCH-II at slower speeds but have seen similar action in Tom’s CVT based HCH-I when traveling at speeds down in the 30 mph range as well … IIRC, his HCH-I’s best FE actually arrives a bit higher then in the HCH-II up around 45 - 53 mph if you can believe that!

___Good Luck

___Wayne

tarabell
08-21-2006, 01:37 PM
Hi Mo, always glad to hear your progress and thoughts from another HCH-II driver. As Wayne mentioned I didn’t cover P&G in this article because it was only intended to cover the basic stuff that a new driver could do right off the bat. Plus it was so freaking long already…. But I’m glad you brought up the subject!

I’ve been looking at P&G with a lot of curiosity and plan to seriously jump into it after Labor Day, as soon as I finish this tank and go take a week's vacation. I know Wayne must have been quietly tearing his hair out as I’m long overdue on starting this phase, but I didn’t want to tackle something new midstream while a couple mpg away from hypermiler status as I’m convinced the basic techniques can carry you a long way -- and now feel pretty justified, as I’m heading toward my second 60+mpg tank without doing anything special. As I’ve mentioned somewhere before... I’m more of a hound than a sprinter. Now that I’ve got the 63 mile bug killed and the oil changed, the final thing when I return from vacation will be to get my tires rotated and (finally) pressed up to 44psi. Then I will be ready to go into full-fledged tail-up, nose-down, ground-sniffing, FE-hunting mode again.

The few times I’ve tried it, I’ve also noticed two things you mentioned – one, it often feels like I have my Ps and Gs not coordinated with the road, as I always seem to run into an upslope or a downslope at exactly the wrong time to screw up my rhythm. Second that the 100mpg glides do seem very brief and a lot of work in comparison with simply maintaining 75-80mpg iFCD with feather-light gas pressure. But again I don’t know wth I’m doing yet and there’s a lot of learning and practicing to come. Plus I don’t know how well P&G is going to work out for me at freeway speeds of 50-60mph -- and taking into consideration the heavy LA traffic. But as can be seen from Wayne’s pic posted above, the results can be remarkable and I feel it’s worth a good sustained try. If successful, there might be a new chapter or article devoted solely to P&G for the HCH-II, sometime this fall.

Regarding that “sweet spot” at 40mph, remember that was only when using cc, and according to my pics I wasn’t in EV-glide while in cc. In any case I haven’t used cc since those tests, so unfortunately haven’t seen any more great effects at this speed. Without cc I still find it easier to cross into EV/glide w/assist, at 30mph than at 40mph, I agree, because at 30 it’s just so easy at 1K-rpm tach. At that tach, EV/glide is indeed very easy to hold for long periods. When your tach is in the higher range after 35mph or so, it takes a little extra effort to get into and of course, hard to sustain for more than a short time.

MoGryph
08-22-2006, 12:45 AM
I'm sorry- you're absolutely right- for a beginners article, anything more than you've put in would be overly confusing.

I find it interesting though, that we're getting so different of effects- you say that you find it easier at 30, than at 40, but mine's easier at 40, than at 30. Maybe it's one of those differences you can see between identical cars, so perhaps the whole conversation I started on it is moot. *shrug*

Congrats on your second 60+ tank. I haven't gotten there yet- my best tank so far has been around 58. This one might be better, since I've had a number of 60+ segments, and even one 71.3mpg segment. There are quite a few 55-58's, and I had 2 around 48, so they might throw the whole thing off. I don't believe I'm going to see much better- my commute to and from work is only 10.6 miles, and about a quarter to half of that can be warm-up. That's okay- I didn't expect to even get this good of FE. Either way, I'm not at all disappointed in my results so far, and I can't wait until I get my first oil change, and switch to Mobile1 synth.

philmcneal
09-12-2006, 04:23 AM
hey so guys, ever since you guys have gotten so comfortable with your HCHII and getting down the techniques. What are your strategies for pure stop and go traffic? if there is a huge accident up a mile ahead or two and your stuck in gridlock. Are you able to travel through that mile or two without barely using the engine? If yes then how would your SOC drop to if one were to give an estimate?

I'm just trying to see if the HCHII can dog it out with a prius II in 1 or 2 miles gridlock traffic jam.

tigerhonaker
09-12-2006, 06:07 PM
hey so guys, ever since you guys have gotten so comfortable with your HCHII and getting down the techniques. What are your strategies for pure stop and go traffic? if there is a huge accident up a mile ahead or two and your stuck in gridlock. Are you able to travel through that mile or two without barely using the engine? If yes then how would your SOC drop to if one were to give an estimate?

I'm just trying to see if the HCHII can dog it out with a prius II in 1 or 2 miles gridlock traffic jam.

Phil,

I could make this a much longer reply to this question you ask:


I'm just trying to see if the HCHII can dog it out with a prius II in 1 or 2 miles gridlock traffic jam.[/quote]

However the Short Reply is: NO The HCH II is never going to match up to the Prius II in the City Stop and Go Traffic. They are different designed Drive-Trains:

Terry (tiger)
BTW, Sorry if you were looking for a more Lengthy Exotic Reply. The answer in short is, NO.

hobbit
09-12-2006, 07:42 PM
That's too bad, and I still think could have been solved with
a relatively simple means of decoupling the IMA from the engine.
I *love* what the Prius does in traffic jams -- only in the
very longest ones or uphill do I ever have to light the ICE at all.
Some of the people around me don't understand the pace time-
averaging game I usually find myself playing, but these days I
see other people doing some of that too. And the long gaps really
do help straighten out the flow and leave plenty of room for
those who need [or think they need] to maneuver.
.
_H*

philmcneal
09-13-2006, 07:04 AM
aw tiger you got me excited for a bit there! since tarbell says she can move the car with just ev assist if your lucky enough, but I guess that's not a move you can do anytime unlike the prius.

Just godda keep saving my pennies ;)

edit:
thank you for the replies tarabell and msantos, you have killed any delimma I had about the car ;) in all honestly though in the hands of the hypermiler I think the hchII can give it a good fight... well for a good reason too since its cheaper to buy a hchII than a prius at the moment ;) I mean c'mon how often do you get stuck in stop and go anyhow ;)

Even in my worse stop and go, I find it easy enough to get up to the minimum speed that is required autostop to work, i guess what really wastes the hchII gas is when you use a high ratio to get the CVT going (as opposed to the prius relying on pure EV but that EV came from somewhere.... the ICE!)

tarabell
09-13-2006, 10:39 AM
Hi Phil, finally getting time to type out my 2 cents here.

Basically Tiger said it all. But here's a few ways the HCH-II would react in your situation, just so you know.

If you can build a big front buffer and maintain constant speed of at least 12mph, yes you can glide in EV w/assist pretty continuously. But it takes a bit of attention/care from the driver to keep it up. For a mile or so it won't be a big hit on your battery, but after 2-3 miles it would.

If you're talking going 5-8mph it's harder because the car stutters and jerks right around there, and you can't really do EV.

But if it's truly stop and creep, you're hosed because the autostop won't repeat unless you've reached some min speed (I forget, like 7mph). So you'd have to let enough of a gap form in front of you each time so you can get up to speed. Otherwise, I've just turned my engine off a few times rather than let it idle.

So in all the situations above the Prius definitely wins AND would be easier on the driver ;)

msantos
09-13-2006, 11:47 AM
Hi all;

I second Tarabell's comments in regards to the duration of crawling traffic and the impact on your FE.

In my case, I incur most (if not all) of my milleage in city only streets and the stop and go traffic can definitely sink our FE to disapointing numbers. Keeping a buffer with the traffic ahead and reducing the forward advances helps a great deal especially if we do it to ensure that the autostop feature kicks in. I also try to minimize the EV assist because quite frankly, I use A/C (in Auto) throughout the year (cooling and defogging) and I prefer it to operate solely on the electric scroll compressor side only. Opening the windows is not an option because of the dust, smoke and pollen. :eek:

So far however, I have managed to somewhat offset the negative impact of stop and go traffic but it is alot of work. I do cheat too! I often tune the radio to a local station to listen to traffic hot spot annoucements. When one is reportedly ahead of me then I will try to pick an alternate route. If I can't then it is time to take it easy and work on that buffer, watch at the traffic ahead and manage my accellerations.


On a somewhat related note:
I stopped responding to another thread concerning an HCH-2 mod that I'm involved in. Mostly because I did not want to hi-jack the thread. In any case this appears to be a better place for this (at least contextually).

As soon as we get our IMA inhibit module working well on my colleague's HCH-II, I will put up some pictures of the module and foot switch (no schematics at this moment ;) ). Please PM me if you need additional details.

For those that are not aware of the previous conversation, we are attempting to develop a user installable IMA assist inhibitor kit. This kit will allow the driver to temporarily cancel the IMA assist at will therefore promoting a better SoC among other things. Since we're both engineers (my friend is a professor at a local university) we've fancied this and other features for a little while. We are also using it as a project for a set of his students. It's his son's car actually :rolleyes:

Anyhow, as a set-back, we blew his MCM and the part is now on order. I suspect that we'll have to monitor more IPU inputs not just the MCM's. After talking to our contacts at Honda Canada, we'll probably have to add OBD monitoring, but we're also trying to avoid scope creep - after all, this is supposed to inexpensive and fun.

In any case, these are all little tricks that could help those of us that drive mostly in city traffic. And yes, for now the Prius is the better vehicle for stop-and-go city traffic. ;)


Cheers;


MSantos

tarabell
10-07-2006, 12:28 PM
I made some (mostly) minor updates to the article. One addition is in the Foot Pressure section, with my observations of greater pedal sensitivity when driving shoeless. While it felt strange at first, after many weeks I can say I feel more normal driving without a right shoe than I ever did with it. I would worry more about my ability to make sudden stops safely if I was doing higher speeds, but since these days I drive in the right lane with max speed=55mph, this no longer seems an issue. Not only that, there’s a {{ lot }} to be said for the fun factor. Still I warn that it’s not for everyone, and to consult your physician, lawyer, state police, insurance agent, priest and maybe your mother before trying this at home.

bear15
10-07-2006, 01:06 PM
Just a quick question. Where is your updated article?

tarabell
10-07-2006, 01:12 PM
Hi Ed & Drew--

You can either go to the top of this thread (page 1) -- or go to the homepage and click on the first article "Adapting Basic Hypermiling Techniques" in the right column, under the "articles" bar.

Also, welcome to the site from me. :)

diamondlarry
10-07-2006, 02:32 PM
Still I warn that it’s not for everyone, and to consult your physician, lawyer, state police, insurance agent, priest and maybe your mother before trying this at home.

LOL! Thanks for the laugh. The problem is, it's probably not that funny to some people.

dalew75
11-09-2006, 11:07 AM
Hi Tarabell,

Great article! I've already used a lot of your techniques. I am a new owner of a 2006 HCH for about 3 weeks now. I started out getting around 43-45 MPG, but am now learning to get around 50MPG for my commute (which has some significant hills, and takes place in fall in New England - about 50 miles round-trip).

Over the last few days, I've noticed a big improvement by using a pulse and glide technique. Basically accelerating quickly, so the assist meter jumps high or maxes out, and then coasting on my newfound momentum.... I've been able to get right around 50MPG for my commute over the last 2 days now.

In your article, you described the technique to go from Regen to Glide to EV-Assist mode. I am able to employ this technique, but for me the most EV-Assist bars I can get doing this, without engaging the ICE is about 3-4 bars. From what I can tell, this assist isn't doing anything to help me along more than a normal glide does.

Sometimes my issue is not being able to utilize the assist mode (and battery) enough, and my battery is often near maxed out. The quick acceleration helps to utilize it, but I'm wondering if there are other techniques to utilize it more without having to also use a lot of power from the ICE?

Thanks,
Dale

xcel
11-18-2006, 06:25 PM
Hi Dale:

___Although assist can reduce your Fuel consumption for a given accel, the payback to bring the pack back to the equivalent SoC is not parity. It costs a ton and your 50 mpg - 50 mile segments are telling a story here. Stay out of the pack as much as possible. When in EV-Glide, minimize the number of bars of assist by slowing or gliding without assist as best you can.

___The whole point of P&G which was not emphasized in this article is to minimize the conversion of energy to/from the pack. Hidden charging is not a bad thing to bring her back up to 7 of 8 or to maintain the normal overhead of running the electronics but charging to replace what was consumed by an overaggressive assist regiment will see your FE sink overall. Reread Tarabell’s article carefully as she is not promoting the use of Assist except to show you what is and is not available under very specific regiments as well what you will see during the various modes on your HCH-II’s instrumentation. Use your HCH-II’s assist capability sparingly. I cannot emphasize this enough. Dropping the hammer and using all she is worth is not the best way to receive the highest FE.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

dalew75
11-20-2006, 04:57 PM
Hello Wayne,

Thanks for the reply. Here's the thing with me.... I've never been hit with the scenario of getting a forced charge, so to me it seemed like I wasn't able to utilize the assist mode enough. And so I've never had the FE hit of a forced charge. On occasion my SOC gets to 5 bars, but never any lower so far in my first 1200 miles or so.

My question centers around getting good mileage in a hybrid versus any normal ICE car. Sure, I can glide without assist and get better mileage, but I cannot always maintain speed, and mainly, I'm not doing anything different than a coast in a normal ICE car (except for the fact that you can do so without any fuel reaching the cylinders?)

Dale

xcel
11-20-2006, 05:38 PM
Hi Dalew75:

___If you can maintain 5 bars or above SoC throughout your commute, you are doing great! Using assist is more a performance addition then a FE one. Filling that pack back up is not free although it may look like it is under a hidden charging scenario. Hopefully you see the SoC slowly climb one bar at a time w/ no bars of Charge showing while driving down the freeway at 55 mph +.

___Gliding is not about maintaining your speed but slowly bleeding it off while waiting for the best opportune time to re-engage and bring her back up to a target speed. Let us consider a DWL scenario. The HCH-II can be used far different then any other hybrid in that you can re-accelerate on the back side of the hill/overpass under EV or let gravity take over while you are in a full blown glide at highway like speeds depending on the length and angle of the slope you are coming down. Coasting is the key to much higher FE and if you can hold onto a Glide without regen or assist, you are gaining the best of both worlds by comparison to either a hybrid or non-hybrid in fuel cut with regen or ICE-braking in either. Try and use this sentence as a guide. The further you can glide ICE-Off/Fuel Cut, the higher your FE will be. Place this statement in your head under all driving conditions and scenarios and you will find the HCH-II paying you back with 70 mpg type segments once warm and traffic allows some leeway with your newly learned techniques.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

mistyz23
08-10-2007, 01:21 PM
Thank you so much for this amazing write up! I read it once over a couple of days when I first got my HCHII 2 months ago. I was a little confused simply because it was all new to me. I was so excited when I got my first 52mpg avg tank! Well, I revisited this article and it CLICKED. :woot: I concentrated hard on my gauges and didn't care if even truckers were passing me up while going 55-60. The result-- 74 mpg avg over 70 miles!!! Holy cow, what a change. The segment in question has a huge valley and hills with an intimidating incline on the 580 freeway just before the 205 junction (SF Bay area, California, nearing Tracy). I managed to get a 4 mile glide going downhill! The return segment I managed 50mpg, but my previous trips avg'd about 41-43 on this hill. Still a massive improvement.

I'm really looking forward to re reading this article again and again until it is second nature. Thanks for taking so much time, Tarabell!

ngzcaz
08-25-2007, 10:15 AM
Well done article... if you have the bucks to have that type vehicle. How about the rest of us that are relagated to the real world driving 8 to 15 year old vehicles ? Is there a forum that specifically deals with older vehicles ??

NGZ

tarabell
08-25-2007, 11:45 AM
Hi NGZ and welcome to the site. I counted 14 pre-1990 non-hybrid vehicles in our mileage database and there are many more nonhybrid cars there at least 10 years old there, so somebody is hypermiling them. Try also doing a search of posts using your vehicle model as keyword to find some tips. Or post your question in the appropriate automobile forum here:
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/f-automobiles-18.html/

Hypermiling feels most effective and productive when you have instrumentation/feedback gauges, otherwise it can be frustrating driving 'blind'. That's why for non-hybrids we recommend you get a scan gauge. It's an investment and not always suited to certain older vehicles but if interested check out the scangauge forum for more posts and details. Its certainly cheaper than shelling out for a new car.

This is also a helpful article:
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/articles/t-what-if-you-cannot-afford-a-8220new8221-fuel-efficient-automobile-this-may-help-665.html

Asystole
11-13-2007, 06:28 PM
Great article, have read it more then a few times and passed it on to other that are giving some thought to purchasing the HCH II. At least one so far will be purchasing on at the end of this month, plus the city I work for gives us $2000 for doing so. It is a win-win situation.

2008 Civic Hybrid
12-22-2007, 07:22 PM
Wow! Fantastic article. I wish the HONDA sales know their product half as well. Well done and a BIG thank you.


I have just got delivery of my new 2008 Hybrid. Will apply what you mentioned in the article back in June 2006. I am sure it will work.


I have a question. I read about the wear and tear on the engagement and disengagement of the auto transmission when we use PULSE & GLIDE. Will this apply to the CVT as well? Has anyone out there having transmission issue? Or is the Civic Hybrid build with CVT to handle the PULSE & GLIDE mode more effectively than the normal transmissions? I know CVT uses steel belt that does not shift gears as in manual or other auto vehicles.

koreberg
12-23-2007, 05:21 PM
All my cars are over 10 years old. I consistently get 5-7mpg better than my wife when driving our minivan, luckily it has a builtin fe gauge. I'm still working on my first tank in my del sol. I have found that a vacuum gauge helps some, once you learn how to read it. There is also older posts about a supermid, but its installation looks a lot more daunting to me than simply plugging in a scan gauge.

st_judas
05-01-2008, 09:45 PM
I wanted to drop by and say thanks, Tarabell! This article helped finally put me over the top to buy an '08 HCH. Well written, and very informative. Thank you.

-Judas

warthog1984
05-01-2008, 09:53 PM
Well done article... if you have the bucks to have that type vehicle. How about the rest of us that are relagated to the real world driving 8 to 15 year old vehicles ? Is there a forum that specifically deals with older vehicles ??

NGZ

There is such a forum. Its called "the Daily Grind":D. Personally, my '94 Dakota gave me many good miles until I sold it this week for a more FE car- a 5 year old Civic.

zehelmer
05-22-2008, 09:32 AM
There is such a forum. Its called "the Daily Grind":D. Personally, my '94 Dakota gave me many good miles until I sold it this week for a more FE car- a 5 year old Civic.

Hi, warthog :woot:

Is it a IMA/Hybrid?

What's your mpg?

joe

kaumaal
08-10-2008, 11:53 AM
Thanks for putting this valuable article. Indeed, the contents in your article helped me a lot to improve my driving skills to obtain high fuel effieciency on my HCH-11. Thanks again!!.
At present (After driving first 15000kms), my HCH- 11 works 4.0-4.3 L/100Km within city limits and 3.5-4.0 L/100Km on Highway. However, the efficiency seems droped during winter time (0 to -30C) to 5-6.2L/100Km within city limits. The overall efficiency was noted around 5.2 L/100Km before 1st oil change (ie. when milage is less than 10000Km). The article on SAHM (Super Atkinson Highway Mode) by msantos seem very interesting, and I guess my HCH-11 once obtained 2.9-3.5 L/100Km using this technique.

-Kaumaal.

jmelson
09-11-2008, 10:22 PM
Thanks much, Tarabell, for your detailed article. I just got a 2008 HCH and am starting to learn how to best use it. My overall MPG has gotten up to 41 now, in about 800 miles of driving. (I know, it isn't broken in yet, and will do better.) Today I filled the gas tank for the second time, and reset the trip B odometer. When I got to work, I saw I had something wild like 57 MPG over about 9 miles of driving. I guess there must be a lot of downhill to work.

Anyway, it seems like there ought to be a way to make it use the IMA more when driving. When I tought the brake pedal, it is easy to get 8 or 10 green bars, ie. a full-scale reading of regenerative braking. But, I've NEVER seen it go over 4 bars of assist. If the electronic drive can handle extracting 20 Hp out of the motor/generator, it should be able to supply 20 Hp to the motor. Tarabell mentioned the difference between gas pedal movement and gas pedal pressure. Are there truly two sensors in the pedal system? If so, it might be possible to tweak some springs or whatever to allow you to get more of the IMA assist before the engine cuts in. I find it extremely difficult to keep it at 3 bars of assist with the engine off. Just the slightest bump in the road, like a tar strip will cause the engine to start. I can easily tell from vibration when the engine is on or off in that mode, as I think it is running on two cylinders at very low throttle, and becomes very smooth when the engine cuts off.

Anybody tinkered with the system to get more range of the electric assist before the engine comes on? Tarabell shows some stuff about 80 MPG instantanous milage with the engine running. I've never seen it hold over about 60 with the engine on, but maybe that's because the engine hasn't loosened up, yet.

Thanks for all the hard work!

Jon

jmelson
09-11-2008, 10:27 PM
There is such a forum. Its called "the Daily Grind":D. Personally, my '94 Dakota gave me many good miles until I sold it this week for a more FE car- a 5 year old Civic.

I just retired a 19-year old Toyota Corolla station wagon with 5-speed. It got about 29 MPG in the city, and 39-42 on the highway. I recently started trying to hypermile with it, andf got the city MPG to 34 or 35. I shut the engine off and coasted down all long hills, and shut it off and coasted up to stop lights. On small cars, the manual transmisson makes a HUGE difference.

Jon

jmelson
09-11-2008, 10:54 PM
Hi Phil, finally getting time to type out my 2 cents here.

Basically Tiger said it all. But here's a few ways the HCH-II would react in your situation, just so you know.

If you can build a big front buffer and maintain constant speed of at least 12mph, yes you can glide in EV w/assist pretty continuously. But it takes a bit of attention/care from the driver to keep it up. For a mile or so it won't be a big hit on your battery, but after 2-3 miles it would.

If you're talking going 5-8mph it's harder because the car stutters and jerks right around there, and you can't really do EV.

But if it's truly stop and creep, you're hosed because the autostop won't repeat unless you've reached some min speed (I forget, like 7mph). So you'd have to let enough of a gap form in front of you each time so you can get up to speed. Otherwise, I've just turned my engine off a few times rather than let it idle.

So in all the situations above the Prius definitely wins AND would be easier on the driver ;)

The rules on when it will auto-stop and when it won't are obviously complicated. It is still a surprise to me every time it doesn't when I expect it to. On one occasion when it was at a light I knew would be a long one, I shifted to N and back to Drive and it autostopped. Other times this didn't work. I used to do this sort of stuff with my Toyota Corolla, but shutting the engine off turns off your turn signals and such.

Jon

jmelson
09-11-2008, 11:00 PM
On a somewhat related note:
I stopped responding to another thread concerning an HCH-2 mod that I'm involved in. Mostly because I did not want to hi-jack the thread. In any case this appears to be a better place for this (at least contextually).

As soon as we get our IMA inhibit module working well on my colleague's HCH-II, I will put up some pictures of the module and foot switch (no schematics at this moment ;) ). Please PM me if you need additional details.



MSantos

I'd be more interested in an IMA ENHANCER, not inhibitor. It seems to me the range where you can get the IMA working is WAY too small. I'd like the OPTION of making the range of IMA much greater between true coast and starteing the ICE. You can only get about 3 bars, which is maybe 1/4 or less of rated output. There are several series of small hills that I could run all in EV-glide if I could only keep the ICE from starting up on every uphill. The uphills are fairly short, so they shouldn't exhaust the battery.

Jon

Right Lane Cruiser
09-12-2008, 12:03 AM
Welcome, Jon!

The real reason you want to stay away from using IMA is that you have to charge the battery back up -- doing this is ultimately an extremely inefficient conversion of energy from gasoline to electricity with a lot of lossy processes. You end up getting better mileage by avoiding using the battery so you don't have to charge it back up.

06hch2
09-12-2008, 12:34 AM
Welcome Jon,
I had the same idea when i first got my hch: maximize assist, but i learned over time and with lots of reading here that with this hybrid, as Sean said, you will have better fuel efficiency by AVOIDING assist as much as possible. Its counterintuitive but true. Try it on your usual path tomorrow, and tell us how it went.

jmelson
09-14-2008, 10:56 PM
Welcome Jon,
I had the same idea when i first got my hch: maximize assist, but i learned over time and with lots of reading here that with this hybrid, as Sean said, you will have better fuel efficiency by AVOIDING assist as much as possible. Its counterintuitive but true. Try it on your usual path tomorrow, and tell us how it went.

Well, I agree that in level driving, this would be true. Taking energy from the engine, through the motor/gen to the battery and back to the motor would be very inefficient. But, this route I drive has a LOT of hills where I can use 3 bars or more of regen. Otherwise I could just let the car accelerate, but then I might get a speeding ticket. On some of the hills I HAVE to regen or I'd really get flying.
So, it seems that using the energy from the battery, in this hills situation, might be quite useful.

Otherwise, I agree that as long as you can keep rolling within 20 - 35 MPH, you'd be best without the assist, and just switch the ICE on and off as needed.

Well, I'll play with it and see if I do better with a lot of coasting.

Jon

Right Lane Cruiser
09-14-2008, 10:59 PM
Jon, search the forums for the SAHM mode for the HCH-II.

06hch2
09-15-2008, 06:15 AM
Well, I agree that in level driving, this would be true. Taking energy from the engine, through the motor/gen to the battery and back to the motor would be very inefficient. But, this route I drive has a LOT of hills where I can use 3 bars or more of regen. Otherwise I could just let the car accelerate, but then I might get a speeding ticket. On some of the hills I HAVE to regen or I'd really get flying.
So, it seems that using the energy from the battery, in this hills situation, might be quite useful.

Otherwise, I agree that as long as you can keep rolling within 20 - 35 MPH, you'd be best without the assist, and just switch the ICE on and off as needed.

Well, I'll play with it and see if I do better with a lot of coasting.

Jon

Regen (green bars) is your friend going down hills. Use it to recoup state of charge (soc) lost going up hill. Going up hill in traffic, you can't avoid using assist (white bars), and you can't really avoid it accelerating from a stop in traffic, but try to keep the number of assist bars you are using as low as possible, to slow the loss of soc.

You don't have to drive only 20-35mph to avoid assist. You can avoid it at any speed, depending on the slope. After you accelerate to desired speed, just back off the accelerator just enough to make the white assist bars disappear. You should see the ifcd bars increase as you do this.

Coasting, when defined as neither accelerating nor decelerating, is a major part of hypermiling. Just do it without using assist, and you will produce higher fe numbers without causing the dreaded, fe-killing forced regen.

jmelson
09-18-2008, 09:32 PM
Well, I found this info on another thread about the 2008 HCH having a "SAHM" (Super-Atkinson Highway Mode) and have been getting the feel of holding that mode. I don't have one of the expensive ScanGauge units yet, but I presume I am running in that mode when the instantaneous economy display is running in the 65-80 MPG region. One of the roads I travel has gentle hills for a couple miles, and I was able to hold the economy gauge up there over pretty much the entire length, at about 35 MPH. Quite cool!

Jon

jmelson
09-21-2008, 11:52 PM
Regen (green bars) is your friend going down hills. Use it to recoup state of charge (soc) lost going up hill. Going up hill in traffic, you can't avoid using assist (white bars), and you can't really avoid it accelerating from a stop in traffic, but try to keep the number of assist bars you are using as low as possible, to slow the loss of soc.

You don't have to drive only 20-35mph to avoid assist. You can avoid it at any speed, depending on the slope. After you accelerate to desired speed, just back off the accelerator just enough to make the white assist bars disappear. You should see the ifcd bars increase as you do this.

Coasting, when defined as neither accelerating nor decelerating, is a major part of hypermiling. Just do it without using assist, and you will produce higher fe numbers without causing the dreaded, fe-killing forced regen.
I did lots of coasting with my previous car, a stick-shift Corolla, and got ~29 MPG in city driving. When I got into more extreme hypermiling, I got that up to 35 MPG, so I do know how to coast.

I think maybe the 2008 HCH-II has reduced the "affinity" of the assist over previous years, because I have to push pretty hard on the pedal to see any assist when the ICE is running. Mostly what I see is using assist ALONE, and then the white bars all go away when the ICE starts on a steeper hill.

I've been practicing using the SAHM mode as much as possible around town. It takes a VERY sensitive feel, but sometimes I can hold it for quite a while.

Jon

xcel
09-22-2008, 12:19 AM
Hi Jon:

___35 mph at 1,100 RPM cruising is not SAHM but the std. slow speed gentle cruise as Tarabell has shown with pics of the same in the low speed tests at the beginning of the article. IGN timing is completely different down in those ranges and seeing 80 – 110 mpg should be the norm in a somewhat steady state while DWL low speed cruise.

___About your Corolla… 35 mpg using extreme techniques in a Corolla w/ a stick? There are beginner, intermediate and advanced techniques but extreme? Please define because it will not stand up to scrutiny around here and especially with just 35 from a Corolla with a stick. That would be a bad day in a Ranger P/U truck let alone in a Corolla.

___Remember that SAHM is a highway, higher speed technique. Holding high FE in an HCH-II from 25 to 38 mph is simply holding high FE at slower speeds due to the just above idling 1.3L ICE.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

rev426
09-27-2008, 12:51 AM
goodjob dude

Kacey Green
09-28-2008, 11:31 AM
I think the coding may have been changed between '08 and '09 when the car has an affinity for assist seems to have changed based on my previous trips in similar conditions (weather and SOC) on the same trips.

Also I've been down to three bars and have yet to see the "Forced charge" on my '09 (I think I saw it several times on the '08s), am I not looking for the right things? At three bars the car preferred to stick the one charge bar on the display, but by demanding more slightly power I could make it go away.

xcel
09-28-2008, 01:23 PM
Hi Kacey:

___The one-Bar of charge showing is forced charging and when stepping into it, it will disappear. That is how I remember the 2008 HCH-II (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15422) acting during our review of it two months ago as well. We have (2) 09 HCH-II's heading our way for the 48-contiguous states world record next month and I will try and make note of your observations as well.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Kacey Green
09-28-2008, 04:27 PM
I see, I also looked back at tarabell's description again, I do see an iFE hit but the car doesn't always go back up to near full, once I did see 3 bars of charge and the car didn't let me cancel that.

The terrain I drive on is very hilly, we also have some bad tailgaters, I've gone to just ignoring them completely unless they have more than two axles or if someone is hogging the passing lane, I go at or nearly at the limit on one or two lane roads b/c nobody can pass safely in that situation.

I'd be glad for you to put my through its paces @ CincyMPG. (I also have the solution to the lack of a spinning tuner knob on the navi models for you ;) ) Please tell me more about the 48-contiguous states world record. Is it in competition to the couple with the VWs?

xcel
09-28-2008, 06:25 PM
Hi Kacey:

___The 06’s and 07’s would usually force charge back up to six or seven of eight-bars after forced charging similar to the way the Insight and HCH-I’s would act if you let them do their thing. The 08 I dove in July did not do this. It would hang around four to five bars and every once in a while it would slide to four or three. A one to two bar forced charge would begin and SoC would climb back up to only 4 to 6 bars. It would than stop and stick there. It was a little maddening because you could be traveling down the Interstate running the lightest accelerator pedal while DWL and you would lose a bar and you know there was absolutely no assist expended. It appears that the Transverter drops out while the SoC is at a given higher percentage and when it falls back due to overhead, DRL’s, radio whatever, it fires off to bring SoC back up. I think there is current flowing thorough the Transverter all the time but if not, Honda chose a good strategy other than the force charge hit. That thing is nasty :(

___About that NAVI equipped radio. I began holding down the Tune button and it would accelerate through the list but it was not nearly as fast as a knob. What are you doing ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Kacey Green
09-28-2008, 07:32 PM
On my way back home today (I live 30 miles from work) the car behaved just like you described for the 08. I think I truly hit SHAM for the first time, I thought I had it before but this time it felt different and it the iFE went from 90 to 100+ range vs. 75-80. Now I need to learn how to hold this up a hill, w/o dropping below 45mph on the freeway. (It may be that our hills are too steep, I can't hold it down a hill, it jumps straight to an engine "off" glide.

I use the voice command, the button is much more ergonomic on the '09.

Sorry if this is hard to read, posted from my phone.

jmelson
09-28-2008, 10:09 PM
Hi Jon:

___181 was yesterdays news. Read about the World Fuel Economy Championships ;)

___If we can pull 60 + mpg segments in a Ranger P/U, do you really think your 19 year old Corolla is only worth 35? It is worth a lot more, trust me.

___Good Luck

___Wayne
Oh, this is on my daily commute to work, city only driving as the local highway is closed for a year, in moderate and unpredictable traffic with way too many lights.
On a good day it will do over 40 on the highway. My commute has a lot of hills, which allows a kind of pulse and glide, shutting off the engine on the down slopes.
Anyway, those experiments have ended, as we've loaned that car to a friend and I just got the '08 HCH-II. I can get about 59 MPG on the commute with that, still learning the techniques. My wife does WAY worse, but she drives in a trance, like using "the force".

Oh, this is all on 10 to 15% gasohol, the only thing they sell in St. Louis, an EPA compliance district.

Jon

Kacey Green
09-28-2008, 11:48 PM
I wish I could find something other than the 10% blend here in Columbia.

douglas.mcguire@gmail.com
10-18-2008, 12:44 PM
Just want to say hello to everyone. I was reading a article in my local paper about Hypermilers and that led me to this forum. Most interesting, and I see I have much to learn.

Doug:)

jmelson
10-19-2008, 05:28 PM
do any of you actually notice, or "feel" the assist?


Yes, I can definitely tell the assist is working. I use it a lot to glide over small hills or coast uphill to a stoplight. I know that I wouldn't make it without starting the ICE if I didn't have the assist. But, you can't hear it or feel it, it is VERY subtle. But, running 3 or 4 bars of assist can keep the car rolling even up a significant hill. It kind of bugs me that 3, or especially FOUR, bars is so close to starting the ICE that it is real hard to keep the ICE off. The slightest bump in the pavement will jiggle the pedal and start the engine.

Jon

LionGreen
02-10-2009, 03:49 AM
Great article ;) Recently I trade my 98 Honda Civic for an HCH - II :) and this will help me to increase the great FE off these car

jimtbob
04-06-2009, 12:43 AM
I have been a lurker for a while and just signed up. I wanted to add a couple comments I have noticed with my 2009 HCH2. I don't know if they made some changes for '09, but here's what I have found so far:

MPG "recal" - using the ScanGauge, I noticed that the engine is still running when the mpg meter does the "recal". It always seems to happen when the pedal position is lingering just above closed valve coast mode but too low to make efficient power with the ICE (i.e. low manifold pressure).

Acceleration - I have found that accelerating at ~2500 rpm actually works better fuel mileage for me. My commute has a lot of short, steep hills and it is easy for me to get into forced recharge. I find accelerating at ~2500 gets me to speed with less damage to SoC and keeps me out of forced recharge (see SoC below). It seems like you press pedal to a certain point, and no assist bars. Past that point, you get assist bars, but no more fuel use. That happens until 3 or 4 bars depending on SoC. Then as you keep pressing you use more fuel up to about ~2500 rpm, but no more assist. I should make a graph or something so that makes more sense.

SoC - did Honda hire a think tank to come up with the dummest battery controller ever? I drive on hills that will discharge the battery, then forced charge begins... and there is no stopping it. It can't be bargained with or reasoned with. It doesn't feel pain or remorse. The forced charge gets the SoC to full 8 bars just in time to go down the other side of the hill. I'm not a powertrain engineer at Honda, but I can figure out that what goes up... must come down. It is maddening to pay a significant premium for regen braking to watch it wasted by dum battery control.

Cold Weather - I bought this in December and I live in the salt belt. I don't think it has seen one day over 65 degrees. I have found there is over a 25% fuel consumption penalty for temperatures below 30 vs. over 50. I used to average almost 39 mpg in my '07 Civic LX 5MT... I have averaged about 45 with the Hybrid. I keep hoping that terrible result is mostly due to cold weather.

Jax
06-02-2009, 01:08 PM
I purchased the 2009 Civic Hybrid the end of April and, even though I enjoyed the test drive, after getting the HCH home wondered if I had made a huge mistake. I had driven my 2002 SI over 140 KM and loved driving it and, yes, had a heavy foot.

It has been tarabell's article and msantos FAQ http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-18185.html and other posts that have changed my mind. I am now having fun driving the car using the basic hypermiling techniques in tarabells article (which is so easy to understand). I've also increased the air pressure in my tires - the ride is not as soft but the km savings are showing up. I'll be replacing the Dunlop tires before the Canadian winter hits.

I tend to use cc on the highway because I have a fusion in my right foot and found attempting to keep the km constant was problematic for both the car and my aching ankle (something I had never experienced with any of my other cars and one of the reason for wondering if I had made a mistake).

In town, I was wondering why the car didn't always "auto stop"; the FAQ section gave me the answer. What I do now in stop and go situations is change from drive to neutral. Neutral engages the auto stop and it is easy to move back into drive.

Cheers

4myra
06-03-2009, 07:40 AM
Hi Tarabell

thank you for the complete, readable and excellent article.

i hope and think most of your advises will be applicable to the new honda insight.

regards, Eddy

Right Lane Cruiser
06-03-2009, 08:11 AM
Hi, Eddy! Yes -- most of what she wrote is applicable to your new Insight. :)

Ohioguy
11-19-2010, 10:29 PM
Hey guys, I'm Dan. Picked up a nice low-mileage 07 HCH-II about 3 weeks ago.
I haven't seen much about how hills and grades of the road affect FE. My area has nothing but rolling hills and grades of 10-20% that may last for 1.5 miles. I find it very challenging to keep a minimum load on the engine without losing 10-12 mph when even going up a gentle grade on the freeway for instance. [I](Perhaps I just need to practice my accelerator touch!) Anyways. . .does this loss of mph sound excessive? The problem then is, I then need to get the car up to a faster (52 mph or so) to keep up with traffic flow. Of course this process repeats several times on my drives.

Does anyone have any suggestions about the long, steep grades? With a warmed-up engine, I find I can manage about 25-32MPG going at about 35 mph on a 10% incline that lasts 1. 5 miles.

Also, it seems that the car is too quick to give electric assist when not needed and sometimes too slow offer it when needed. Is this a function of my needing to be more gentle with the go-pedal? (I've read about the ICU flash-reprogram that may cause these conditions. Does anybody have any info?)


My overall mileage on three tanks has averaged about 45MPG. I have noticed on some loops that I can average 55-57MPG using the iFCE. At 45MPG I'm overjoyed considering, I got rid of a full size Ford P/U that averaged about 17MPG. Thanks.



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