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tigerhonaker
06-22-2006, 06:53 PM
Honda will introduce an entry-level four-door hybrid that will be more fuel-efficient than the current two-door Honda Insight. It would be priced below the $22,700 Civic Hybrid

Higher fuel prices spurring Honda to spend big on small cars


By LINDSAY CHAPPELL

AutoWeek | Published 05/23/06, 8:56 am et


Because gasoline prices are topping $3 a gallon, Honda is back in its element.

CEO Takeo Fukui, investing aggressively in small cars and fuel-saving engines, is planning a clean diesel, a new hybrid car and a new assembly plant in the United States.

Honda's plans suggest it wants to reclaim the industry's eco-friendly high ground. No more will Toyota Motor Corp., with its popular Prius hybrid, go unchallenged as the world's greenest carmaker.

Worldwide, the average Honda vehicle sold in 2010 will emit 5 percent less carbon dioxide than today, Fukui said last week at a press conference. That follows a 5 percent cut achieved from 2000 to 2005.

Setting carbon-dioxide-reduction targets for products and plants was an "industry first," Fukui said. Carbon dioxide is widely thought to cause global warming, and autos are a significant generator of the gas in the atmosphere.

Officials said Honda will introduce an entry-level four-door hybrid that will be more fuel-efficient than the current two-door Honda Insight. It would be priced below the $22,700 Civic Hybrid and badged as a Honda.

The Insight will be killed in September, said Richard Colliver, executive vice president for Honda and Acura sales at American Honda Motor Co.

Prius fighter
Colliver said the new nameplate will have a North American sales target of 100,000 a year. Last year, Toyota sold 107,897 Priuses in the United States.

Honda also said that in 2009 it will begin selling vehicles equipped with very clean diesel engines in the United States, a daunting technological challenge. The company said a four-cylinder diesel will lead the effort, but a V-6 diesel also is in development. It declined to say what vehicles would have the diesels or whether both Acura and Honda would sell them.

The company plans to spend $665 million on new and expanded North American factories. That will cover the construction of a Midwestern assembly plant to produce 200,000 more cars a year and a Canadian engine plant that will build 200,000 four-cylinder engines a year.

That announcement comes just weeks after Honda said it will trim its 2006 output of the midrange Honda Pilot SUV in Lincoln, Ala.

The spending, modest by global investment standards, will produce small vehicles and small engines. Since the late 1990s, Honda has invested in carving out a spot in the booming truck market, with the production of the large Odyssey minivan, Pilot SUV and the Ridgeline pickup.
Honda's green breakout
A list of new plans revealed last week shows Honda reasserting its identity as a small- car company with an environmentally friendly image. Plans include

* A new hybrid car with an annual sales target of 100,000

* A new North American plant to build more four-cylinder engines

* Two clean diesel engines, a four-cylinder and a V-6The game plan revealed last week would give Honda 300,000 additional annual North American sales - almost entirely in segments that have been the company's strong suit: small vehicles and four-cylinder engines.

Traditionally, Honda does not launch new factories with untested vehicles, so it is likely that the new U.S. plant will take over production of either the Civic or the Accord, both built in Ohio. That would allow the company, for example, to build more of its small SUV, the CR-V. The CR-V currently is sold in Europe with a diesel engine.

Honda would not say where the plant will be built. Larry Jutte, senior vice president for Honda of America Manufacturing Inc. in Marysville, Ohio, acknowledged that the project is in the final stages of site selection.

Last week, Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels revealed that state officials there were working with Honda to secure options for a large site in his state. And The Plain Dealer newspaper in Cleveland reported that the company is considering a 1,060-acre site about 45 miles southwest of Columbus, Ohio.

Emphasizing Honda's new green message, the company said the new auto plant "will have the smallest environmental impact of any Honda automobile plant in North America." The company did not say how this will be accomplished.

Combined, the plans will allow Honda to boost the combined fuel efficiency of its U.S. fleet by 5 percent by 2010, said Ed Cohen, American Honda vice president of government affairs. He said Honda's corporate average fuel economy - or CAFE - average for all vehicles would reach 30.6 mpg at that time, up from 29.2 today.
Reclaiming its identity
Once the new Japan-built hybrid and the new U.S. plant come on line, Honda and Acura are expected to have an additional 300,000 units of capacity for North American sales, Colliver said.

If Honda sold all of those, its North American sales would rise 18 percent to about 2 million per year. And that might not be all. Officials in Japan hint that Honda may expand its 30,000-car plant in El Salto, Mexico, within the next three years.

The investment would take place just as U.S. consumers are beginning to display a 1980s-style awareness of fuel economy. Rising fuel prices are already pushing some buyers out of light trucks and into cars with smaller engines.

Honda's sales push in North America will coincide with a global sales drive. Besides the new North American plants, Honda is adding a plant in Japan and sharply expanding production in China, Brazil, India and elsewhere.

All together, Honda foresees global vehicle sales of more than 4.5 million automobiles in 2010. That would be up 33.7 percent from 3,365,000 in 2005.

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060523/FREE/60522014&Profile=1041

JusBringIt
01-12-2009, 12:33 PM
so umm...what happened?

Chuck
01-12-2009, 12:35 PM
Must have been the original plans for the Insight II.

JusBringIt
01-12-2009, 01:00 PM
I believe so too, It seems to be right except for "better than prius mileage." I'm surely not complaining about the gas mileage in the insight II, however I would like to know where that info came from.

Kacey Green
01-18-2009, 05:27 PM
Three years ago

Sunin
03-04-2009, 01:54 PM
Bad thing was I was looking at buying a 2010, but then saw the real world test drive results on numerous sites and ran for the 2006. I am now a happy owner of a sub 14k mile 2006 red insight.

xcel
03-04-2009, 02:39 PM
Hi Sunin:

___The 2010 Honda Insight-II is not going to match the 2000 – 2006 Honda Insight-I just as the Honda Insight-I will never match the utility, comfort, convenience and safety of the Insight-II.

___The Insight-II is no slouch in the FE department either ;)

CleanMPG Previews the 2010 Honda Insight-II (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18649)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

fuzzy
03-04-2009, 10:22 PM
...___The Insight-II is no slouch in the FE department either ;) ...

Have you collected enough wheel time to tell us -- probably when the Prius embargo ends later this month -- the relative HM capability of HI-II and P-III in the hands of committed hypermilers? Or will we have to wait even longer for more testing to get some expert opinions?

There have been enough changes, and some potential to program some HM modes to automatically occur during ordinary driving, that I don't trust in simply extrapolating from past model results and the newly publicized EPA numbers. Unless you say it is OK to extrapolate. ;)

-- Dean

xcel
03-04-2009, 11:45 PM
Hi Dean:

___As you know, I am walking a fine line until the 25th but let me try and put it this way. From my short time behind the wheel of any of the latest and previous gen hybrids, the HCH-II still has its strengths. You know about the Insight-II's strengths and weaknesses. The Prius-III is similar to the Prius-II where FE is concerned for us but the average guy gets a better car in a number of areas ;)

___Clear as mud?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

fuzzy
03-05-2009, 12:23 AM
...___Clear as mud?...

Clear enough for now.

For the next few weeks, I'll be dancing around like a kid so excited that he has to go to the little boys room. But whatever the choice, I'll probably be better off waiting for the first mad rush to the showroom to slow down. It isn't yet appearing that the economy is ready to open up the wallets and credit lines of the car-buying masses.

Taliesin
03-05-2009, 10:19 AM
___Clear as mud?
___Wayne

Hmm... Interpretation:

It depends on how much city driving you do vs. highway driving.

Sound about right?

xcel
03-05-2009, 10:33 AM
Hi Taliesin:

___Sounds about right to me too ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

pcs0snq
03-05-2009, 07:56 PM
Let me jump in. My commute 80% of the time is a 70% Interstate 30 Urban roads. I had considered the Insight II as a Fit replacement. The Fit is a good car and capable but the day in and day out work to get a +50FE tank is nothing short of work. That said, if I recall the test drivers recently saw mid 50's and Wayne saw 70's in the I II. What I do not know is how much work was involved to get mid 70's?

I figure it would cost me around $5k to step up to what I expect the base to cost. Still need the real MSRP's to sort this out as well.

Besides all that, I's rather have a plug in, but Lithium technology is still years from being safe and affordable in a large enough size to get a decent range. I like the Volt idea but have my doubts about GM making it and at expect costs being in my budget.

Kacey Green
03-05-2009, 08:16 PM
if the market for used cars continues the way it has lately your fit will still be in high demand

HemiSync
03-05-2009, 09:34 PM
AutoWeek | Published 05/23/06, 8:56 am et


Holy Smokes, what are we doing reading an article from 3 years ago. Scared the bejesus out of me. Since I am considering trading in my Civic HCH-I for one of these, the last thing I needed to see is an article saying the Insight is going to be killed in September.

fuzzy
03-06-2009, 02:00 AM
Hmm... Interpretation: ...

It seems that the NDA boundaries are already pressed hard enough that I won't express an interpretation. The PC folks who got to drive the P-IIIs on Sunday are already providing lots of new information, just about everything except driving impressions and fuel economy. They must have had narrower NDAs than the industry reviewers had a few days earlier.

xcel
03-06-2009, 02:21 AM
Hi Dean:

___Did you read our Preview of the Prius-III yet??? Everything was provided other than driving impressions.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

fuzzy
03-06-2009, 03:34 AM
I should go back and re-read it, to see what my aging brain missed in January. After getting a huge amount of information here, I browsed over there, filled in a number of holes, and collected more feature impressions and comparisons to the current model . And a pointer to a single real-life FE number on yet another site, with a promise of a good story later (didn't sound unique to them, so I'll probably find it in Wayne's review first). The recent foreign feature lists contain some new details too, inconveniently mixed with features that we won't get. All that remains now is the wait for March 25, then the actual hands-on when they start appearing on local lots.

But over there, HMers seem sparse, and most who are there are familiar.

If HCH-II was available in a hatchback, I'd probably already have one. As a Hondaphile, Insight-II is attractive. But PIII looks like it might fully replace Suby as a travel car (except when chain checkpoints are a risk) without having to shrink our standard baggage load. This would remove a point of resistance in the household.

-- Dean

Taliesin
03-06-2009, 08:44 AM
It seems that the NDA boundaries are already pressed hard enough that I won't express an interpretation...

Most of my interpretation came straight from the different styles of hybrid tech the two companies use, and they have confirmed that they haven't changed tech completely.

Honda's version works better with highway commutes and Toyota's works better with city driving.

Let me jump in. My commute 80% of the time is a 70% Interstate 30 Urban roads. I had considered the Insight II as a Fit replacement. The Fit is a good car and capable but the day in and day out work to get a +50FE tank is nothing short of work. That said, if I recall the test drivers recently saw mid 50's and Wayne saw 70's in the I II. What I do not know is how much work was involved to get mid 70's?

I figure it would cost me around $5k to step up to what I expect the base to cost. Still need the real MSRP's to sort this out as well.

Besides all that, I's rather have a plug in, but Lithium technology is still years from being safe and affordable in a large enough size to get a decent range. I like the Volt idea but have my doubts about GM making it and at expect costs being in my budget.

The Insight would be the better choice between that and the Prius for your commute. I'm starting to have my doubts about the Volt as well.
The only thing that would keep me in the decision making process in your situation is that the Prius works better for plug-in conversion than the Insight.

My choice for my commute? Not counting the possibility of plug-in (commute's just a bit too long), give me the Insight, but I would like to leave all the hybrid tech out of it (I don't need the extra power or the extra weight). Just give me that tiny motor in a light car (very much like the original Geo Metro, but with better aerodynamics).



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