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With high gas prices and environmental concerns, can the fun auto survive? (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25062699/)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/2007_Porsche_911_GT3_Turbo.jpgJim Henry - Business Week - June 9, 2008

2008 Porsche 911 GT3: $107,500 – Top speed of 197 mph – 18 mpg combined.

For the year, Porsche sales are down a tough 28%. Does anyone “want” to purchase let alone “need” to drive a very expensive but cramped performance oriented two-seater at a maximum of 75 mph nowadays? -- Ed.

Sales of most coupes and convertibles are in the ditch, alongside big pickups and SUVs, as customers decide they can do without their "weekend car."

Driving has always been about more than transportation. It's been about freedom. It's been about fun. Fantasy. Children dream about bring old enough to get behind the wheel for the first time and, when they do, they don't imagine themselves driving a family sedan. They see themselves driving something sporty, preferably with the top down.

But now, with gas prices soaring into dangerously unfamiliar territory, many Americans, even the well-off, are reevaluating their love affair with the car. Is it environmentally, financially, and morally responsible to drive fun cars purely for fun? So, while many potential buyers may be secretly lusting after that red convertible on the showroom floor, more and more are averting their eyes and buying hybrids instead… http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25062699/

People at the start of the industrial revolution used to write poetry about steam engines pumping water out of coal mines.

'Driving has always been about more than transportation. It's been about freedom. It's been about fun. Fantasy'

No it hasn't - but the marketing guys have always wanted you to think it is about 'freedom and fantasy' - which is still true for 9th graders.

A car is nothing more than an appliance - it does a job.

Is my toaster or dishwasher 'all about freedom and fantasy' ?


Machines have a predictable lifecycle like any product - cars are rather mature, their 'fantasy' appeal will continue to diminish over time - except for those 9th graders, who will always be convinced by the most childish marketing gimmicks.

People at the start of the industrial revolution used to write poetry about steam engines pumping water out of coal mines.

'Driving has always been about more than transportation. It's been about freedom. It's been about fun. Fantasy'

No it hasn't - but the marketing guys have always wanted you to think it is about 'freedom and fantasy' - which is still true for 9th graders.

A car is nothing more than an appliance - it does a job.

Is my toaster or dishwasher 'all about freedom and fantasy' ?


Machines have a predictable lifecycle like any product - cars are rather mature, their 'fantasy' appeal will continue to diminish over time - except for those 9th graders, who will always be convinced by the most childish marketing gimmicks.

Unless you are an oddball like me that loves to drive, despite the fact I commute so far from M - F. For someone like me, it's sad to not be able to go for a "joy ride". But I always had economical cars, I try not to waste TOO much gas ;) I need a solar powered weekend car LOL...

Vooch,
Many, many humans loved their tools and machines(fancy tool) Loooonnnnngggg before advertising came to be. Why did folks decorate their swords, bows, axes, knives, rifles?? They were always more than just appliances. Vooch,I don't mean for this to sound snotty, just in case it does-I'll pre-apologize.

Many people get more pleasure out of a car than a toaster. You don't . We are going to love different sort of cars now. Many reformed hot rodders/motorheads are here because they like cars, and mpg is a new type of performance.

PS-Weekend cars and the second or even third junk cars that are mainly for Home Depot, vacations, dump runs will be dumped. The middle class guy rebuilding a 60's 70's muscle car will all be hit by gas prices also. It won't be the little bit of gas their "extra" car uses, it will be the $300 month more that they are paying to run their primary car.

I keep doing the arithmetic on buying a cheap,FE junker second car for $2500, and taking my guzzler off the insurance and off registration. I would just reinsure and register it the one or two times I year I alsolutely need it. In general it is a 5 year payback. Once I get a spare $3000, I'll do it.
.

Thanks,
Charlie

Humans will always be passionate about transportation and vehicles and we will not give up fun vehicles. We are in a powertrain paradigm transition period that will last a couple of years but there already are kick @$$ electric motorcycles and cars and choices will increase rapidly in a short time. Tuning will then be focused on motor controllers, batteries, motors, and gearing instead of fuel curves, timing, and forced induction pressure. Things will only continue to advance, become cleaner, safer, and yes MORE FUN!

We are going to love different sort of cars now. Many reformed hot rodders/motorheads are here because they like cars, and mpg is a new type of performance.

Thanks,
Charlie

Exactly. You beat me to it. I bought my Insight strictly for mpg, and it has turned out to be the most fun car I've ever owned. A different kind of "fun", but still fun.

Well, I sell the occasional Pontiac Solstice, which would definately fall into this category I suppose. Not exactly a Porsche, bu I think its realistic to get 30 MPG out of the 2.0.

the saturn skys are nice looking cars, I'd love to have one but with 2 kids right now it's not very practical, but I still have to wonder why they weigh so much? My sc2 weighs tons less and has a back seat lol I know they are convertibles, but I digress, you are exactly right that is a fine example of a higher mpg capable car that is still plenty fast and loads of fun

The amount of gas consumed by sports cars is negligible. I would guess that the amount of gas consumed by all driving vacations and other long-haul car use aren't negligible, but insignificant. By far the largest chunk of all the oil goes simply for getting people to and from work. Most of those vehicles are inefficient. Replace them with PHEV's, or similar, and North America and Europe will be energy independent, or close to it.

I'm guessing ICE's, fancy sports cars, and so on, are with us for some time.

I don't need to ditch my motorcycle because even with its high performance, it still offers excellent fuel economy.

Harry

I get the best of both worlds with the Celica.... economy on the smaller roller cams.... and performance on the larger slipper cams:D

Yes.... weekend cars will still be around... maybe in a different form.... like the Tesla etc. or a Toyota hybrid vehicle that can go from economy to performance.... battery only, ICE only, battery + ICE. Nothing like electric off the line for torque. It would be very interesting to see Toyota do something hybrid on a MR2 type platform.

Then again, people may not be buying weekend cars... but opt to blow the dust off their Hummer or other FSP instead.

I want a two-wheeler. Has anyone been fas'ing their motorcycles? I have some very long hills around here, and you couldn't fas scooters due to the autotrans...

I want a two-wheeler. Has anyone been fas'ing their motorcycles? I have some very long hills around here, and you couldn't fas scooters due to the autotrans...

The aerodynamics are so bad on a bike and the bike is so light that FASing does not work very well. I can coast further on my 500 pound VFR than I could on my 400 pound Ninja 500 but it still is not very good. The hill has to be very steep to maintain speed.

There's a certain visceral appeal of the muscle or performance car, and
the carmakers have of course played this to the hilt for years. The
animal growl, the teeth, the muscular shoulders, the carefully molded-in
lines that say "I and my fine steed are gonna chew you up like helpless
prey and spit what's left out the tailpipe" ... something about how the
whole picture goes together can appeal strongly to the animal in humans.
You see it every time one of those jacked-up pickups with the big pipes
takes off beside you. They've blasted you with noise, they've asserted
their jungle authority. It's the big manly way to save time and appear
all tough and capable, even if it really isn't.
.
Back in the day it was likely more about horses and of course the
aforementioned weapons, but really, think about all the classic stories
in which a human teams up with an animal to form the unstoppable pair,
even if it doesn't matter what they're supposedly fighting... it's just
something about *having* a certain capability that matters. [In other
words, power corrupts.] Vehicles quite possibly map closely to those
befriended/allied animals in our minds ... they stand at four [or even
two] points, they cast their keen gaze forward, they move by themselves,
they inhale breath at the front and emit waste out the rear. And more
importantly they do what WE want. Somehow the "coming to life" of that
big block with the lumpy cam, its attack roar when the throttle is goosed,
and the feel of the cheetah-like launch is just not going to easily go
away for a lot of people. There's a definite sexiness about it that's
often hard to suppress, no matter that it happens to be accomplished
right now via a poor implementation that wastes a lot of precious
resource, is entrenched firmly into our culture, and we don't have a
better or alternate way widespread enough yet.
.
http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/pix/hf07/tn/114cruise.jpg
.
What somehow needs to happen, and I have no idea how it's going to be
accomplished, is to somehow conjure up the same sort of appeal in that
barely audible pitiful little whine most inverters emit and pride in
the fact that you've made it whine *just* enough to get over the little
rise and make it to the next stop with over 90% conversion efficiency
out of your dead-silent battery pack. Even the axle-bustin' electric
drag racers are going to have trouble stirring that same emotional
response in many people. Short of adding the external speakers and
"harley sound" synthesizer box, how do we ever hope to make electric
transport appeal to so many people on that same level? Unless the new
unspoken one-upmanship becomes "sneak up on your adversaries and bump
'em in the butt with your nose" ...
.
For years now I've found it more rewarding to consider the physics of
a large heavy object acted upon by a relatively small force and spend
my mental bandwidth calculating where the object will be and how fast
it's moving ten seconds from now, almost doing my own little version
of orbital mechanics on the fly. I would often refer to it as "two tons
of scrap metal, four undernourished hampsters, do the math". Brains over
brawn, elegant and precise dynamics. But holding that up as "fun with
a vehicle" appeal is way too cerebral for most people. I understand
both viewpoints, but have no idea how to go about bridging them.
.
_H*

You don't bridge them.... you can't compare pulling a 1g or better corner, just hanging on the edge, with being on the edge of hitting a new effiency record. As the article mentions, consumers may not have a choice but to go hybrid or all electric. No doubt that performance consumer vehicles will remain in some form. I sure wouldn't mind having a Tesla now:D There will probably also be something that burns through a battery pack a year or less, too.

Slightly off topic.... but, I don't see them making too many hybrid or all-electric motor boats yet (other than for fishing).

Many reformed hot rodders/motorheads are here because they like cars, and mpg is a new type of performance.e
I also agree with this, I used to hang out at the dragstrip when I was in college, now the camaro sits on the side of the house and my yaris puts a smile on my face every day. however I still have a soft spot for loud exhaust and neck snapping launches