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A few questions about hypermiling the Ford Escape Hybrid:

1. I understood that provided you had an eCVT temperature of 66 degrees F and that there was sufficient SoC (for me it seems to be around 45%--but this varies greatly), the FEH would go to EV with little engine load and especially at a stop. For the last few days I've had bouts of no EV even at a stop--in fact the RPM occasionally increases as if it needs a charge. This has occurred even at 53% SoC. It's like it gets confused sometimes and does the opposite of what it is supposed to.

2. What happens if when you're shifting around between "L", "D", and "N" to force stop, slow down, etc. you accidentally throw it into reverse? I've done this twice--and immediately pulled out of "R"--but can't remember if I was in EV (where presumably damage could happen) or using the ICE. Might this be the cause of my problem in question 1? I know, sounds really boneheaded, but it feels like I'm driving a standard sometimes and I get used to a rhythm of shifting...

3. I tried to force stop by turning off the key the other day--maybe I misread one of these posts, but I thought that that was a viable and alternative method of going EV (or at least non-ICE). Instead I went DNOV (Distinctly Non Operational Vehicle). Wow do you ever realize how powerful power steering is when you haven't got it. Not only that, you can't start the car again unless you're in park first. This seems like a very bad idea. Did I just misread something?

4. Is there a danger of overheating on longer trips (i.e. full day's driving at highway speeds) if the grille is taped up or blocked?

5. How do I know if the Block Heater/Battery warmer is working? Does it provide a consistent temperature regardless of outside temp? Or is it simply imprecise warmth and you get what you get? I'm not sure I'm seeing any difference at startup.

6. Brakes are very "grabby" near the end of a stop in wet weather. Is this normal or should I have it looked at?

7. When you start the engine from a cold start, and the ICE idles at a constant RPM for a short while, and it seems you are actually driving using the EV, is it better to "goose" the accelerator slightly to get some speed thereby getting a fairly good MPG readout, or is slow and steady the way to go here? It does seem that geting up to speed quickly gives great MPG readouts early on--especially since the ICE appears not to be actually driving the car at all for the first minute or so.

Ok. That's enough or now. I'm sure I'll have more later. Any replies are most welcome and greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Andrew

I suspect that the brake thing is because you get moisture on the brake discs. Moisture acts as a lubricant, recuding your braking power. When the discs heat up enough to evaporate the water, the brakes grip harder.

But wait, that vehicle probably has regenerative braking.. so I have no idea. :o

Hi Andrew, I'm no expert, but I'll share my experiences on the questions where I can ...
1. I understood that provided you had an eCVT temperature of 66 degrees F and that there was sufficient SoC (for me it seems to be around 45%--but this varies greatly), the FEH would go to EV with little engine load and especially at a stop. For the last few days I've had bouts of no EV even at a stop--in fact the RPM occasionally increases as if it needs a charge. This has occurred even at 53% SoC. It's like it gets confused sometimes and does the opposite of what it is supposed to.

There are many factors that the software uses to determine that its okay to go EV. Temperature, SoC, speed, etc. I have found that after a cold start that Temp is the limiting factor. With a warm engine, at 42% SoC I can go EV. At 53% SoC and above, if I shift to L, then the engine spins to throw off the excess. 53% seems to be a software limit that is designed to extend the life of the batteries? Gently using the brakes at 53%, I can get the SoC up to 57+%.

On the speed side, I can't get into EV at higher than 43 MPH and it comes out of EV if I accelerate past 38 MPH. So there are many factors and these are just the 3 that I have experienced.

2. What happens if when you're shifting around between "L", "D", and "N" to force stop, slow down, etc. you accidentally throw it into reverse? I've done this twice--and immediately pulled out of "R"--but can't remember if I was in EV (where presumably damage could happen) or using the ICE. Might this be the cause of my problem in question 1? I know, sounds really boneheaded, but it feels like I'm driving a standard sometimes and I get used to a rhythm of shifting...

I have shifted into R more than a few times.:o It only seems to hurt it if you accelerate when your moving forward, but still in R. Then it bounces a little and I let off the accelerator and shift back into N. It is scary.:eek: I have seen nothing to indicate that it would effect your ability to go EV, but it's possible.

3. I tried to force stop by turning off the key the other day--maybe I misread one of these posts, but I thought that that was a viable and alternative method of going EV (or at least non-ICE). Instead I went DNOV (Distinctly Non Operational Vehicle). Wow do you ever realize how powerful power steering is when you haven't got it. Not only that, you can't start the car again unless you're in park first. This seems like a very bad idea. Did I just misread something?

I recently figured out that when you FAS in the FEH, that you can click the ignition back up one click (position #2, I think its called) and it will give you back you power steering, speedometer, and other instruments. This seems to effect the SoC though. Mine goes down to the 34-36% and takes longer to come back into the normal 39-53% range. So perhaps it is using the EV batteries during this FAS?

Also, while gliding in N you should be able to restart the ignition as long as you are at 6 MPH or above, below that I have to put it in Park to restart as well.

6. Brakes are very "grabby" near the end of a stop in wet weather. Is this normal or should I have it looked at?

Mine does that too and it rains here often. I think that Jaral is correct.

7. When you start the engine from a cold start, and the ICE idles at a constant RPM for a short while, and it seems you are actually driving using the EV, is it better to "goose" the accelerator slightly to get some speed thereby getting a fairly good MPG readout, or is slow and steady the way to go here? It does seem that geting up to speed quickly gives great MPG readouts early on--especially since the ICE appears not to be actually driving the car at all for the first minute or so.

Your observation is correct, on a cold start the EV batteries are powering the vehicle, while the ICE is heating itself up. My ICE heats up quicker if I go easy on the accelerator during warm-up, so IMHO you get better overall FE by getting the ICE warmed up sooner.

Hope that helps!
-Rob

A few questions about hypermiling the Ford Escape Hybrid:

1. I understood that provided you had an eCVT temperature of 66 degrees F and that there was sufficient SoC (for me it seems to be around 45%--but this varies greatly), the FEH would go to EV with little engine load and especially at a stop. For the last few days I've had bouts of no EV even at a stop--in fact the RPM occasionally increases as if it needs a charge. This has occurred even at 53% SoC. It's like it gets confused sometimes and does the opposite of what it is supposed to. You need a CHT of 190F or 87.7C to go EV for the first time, provided your SoC is >42%

2. What happens if when you're shifting around between "L", "D", and "N" to force stop, slow down, etc. you accidentally throw it into reverse? I've done this twice--and immediately pulled out of "R"--but can't remember if I was in EV (where presumably damage could happen) or using the ICE. Might this be the cause of my problem in question 1? I know, sounds really boneheaded, but it feels like I'm driving a standard sometimes and I get used to a rhythm of shifting...The transmission input is simply an input to the computer, if there is an unreasonable request, it will not do it.

3. I tried to force stop by turning off the key the other day--maybe I misread one of these posts, but I thought that that was a viable and alternative method of going EV (or at least non-ICE). Instead I went DNOV (Distinctly Non Operational Vehicle). Wow do you ever realize how powerful power steering is when you haven't got it. Not only that, you can't start the car again unless you're in park first. This seems like a very bad idea. Did I just misread something?I don't FAS unless I'm stopped at a long light. To maintain PS, you must return the key to the run position within a couple of seconds. If you're going more than 6mph but less than 40, you can shift into N and lightly double tap the brakes, and the ICE will shut off if all other conditions allow it to.

4. Is there a danger of overheating on longer trips (i.e. full day's driving at highway speeds) if the grille is taped up or blocked? Can't help you there, I've never done it. The high here yesterday was 110F.

5. How do I know if the Block Heater/Battery warmer is working? Does it provide a consistent temperature regardless of outside temp? Or is it simply imprecise warmth and you get what you get? I'm not sure I'm seeing any difference at startup. It is simply a dumb heater, but you should notice a big difference if it is plugged in for more than a couple of hours.

6. Brakes are very "grabby" near the end of a stop in wet weather. Is this normal or should I have it looked at? Normal, friction brakes aren't used much excpt to come to a complete stop.

7. When you start the engine from a cold start, and the ICE idles at a constant RPM for a short while, and it seems you are actually driving using the EV, is it better to "goose" the accelerator slightly to get some speed thereby getting a fairly good MPG readout, or is slow and steady the way to go here? It does seem that geting up to speed quickly gives great MPG readouts early on--especially since the ICE appears not to be actually driving the car at all for the first minute or so. Getting up to speed quickly will give you short-term MPG gains, but will drop your SoC precipitously.

Ok. That's enough or now. I'm sure I'll have more later. Any replies are most welcome and greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Andrew

A few questions about hypermiling the Ford Escape Hybrid:

2. What happens if when you're shifting around between "L", "D", and "N" to force stop, slow down, etc. you accidentally throw it into reverse? I've done this twice--and immediately pulled out of "R"--but can't remember if I was in EV (where presumably damage could happen) or using the ICE. Might this be the cause of my problem in question 1? I know, sounds really boneheaded, but it feels like I'm driving a standard sometimes and I get used to a rhythm of shifting...

6. Brakes are very "grabby" near the end of a stop in wet weather. Is this normal or should I have it looked at?

Ok. That's enough or now. I'm sure I'll have more later. Any replies are most welcome and greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Andrew

Andrew,

2. I've shifted to R a few times while going forward at 25-40mph and it's not a problem. It's all electonic and the car knows better than to actually go into reverse. :) I have also been in neutral coasting and pressed on the gas without RPMs increasing.

6. I have not really noticed grabby brakes in wet weather, but there have been numerous posts about this. It's normal due to moisture build up, and since re-gen is used much of the time, the pads don't engage until you're almost stopped, or press on the brake really hard. Shifting to N cancels regen and can help dry things out. It's never been that much of a problem for me though.

-- Rick

7. When you start the engine from a cold start, and the ICE idles at a constant RPM for a short while, and it seems you are actually driving using the EV , is it better to "goose" the accelerator slightly to get some speed thereby getting a fairly good MPG readout, or is slow and steady the way to go here? It does seem that geting up to speed quickly gives great MPG readouts early on--especially since the ICE appears not to be actually driving the car at all for the first minute or so.

Getting up to speed quickly will give you short-term MPG gains, but will drop your SoC precipitously.

Carl,

Quick question: I'm in a rual area and I turn out onto a 2-lane highway when I start out every morning. I don't have the opportunity to EV much on the highway and have plenty of time to get back any SoC. So, would I be better off to get up to speed quickly after I pull out of the driveway? I've been trying to take it pretty easy if traffic allows.

Thanks,

Rick

BTW: Thanks for all you're work on the SGII xcodes! Don't know what I'd do without Soc!

Thanks all,

This is truly what the net was intended for!

Another question:

Today the car started acting very strangely: ICE refused to shut off. Then, sometimes it was driving as though in EV: RPMs were low and not moving, but I was accelerating and the charge/discharge needle was almost straight up (discharging). Then, the SoC of charge started climbing and climbing. I'd never seen it past 55%, but it hit 90% today. I was getting unbelievable MPG while crawling along: 80-90. I got kinda freaked out...in a OMG she's gonna blow! kinda way...Fortunately I got home before detonation.

Then I remembered something in the manual about "battery reconditioning". I drove around the block and everything seemed to return to normal...I think.

Could this be the reconditioning?

Andrew

Carl,

Quick question: I'm in a rual area and I turn out onto a 2-lane highway when I start out every morning. I don't have the opportunity to EV much on the highway and have plenty of time to get back any SoC. So, would I be better off to get up to speed quickly after I pull out of the driveway? I've been trying to take it pretty easy if traffic allows.

Thanks,

Rick

BTW: Thanks for all you're work on the SGII xcodes! Don't know what I'd do without Soc!

We can never thank Carl enough for working with Ron Delong to give us these nice X-gauges.

Rick, I have a situation like you on a morning cold start, but the two lane road is busy and the speed limit is 35mph where everyone goes at least 40mph. I'm always face out and it's about 150 feet to a stop sign before that only road out of my hood. It is most important to let the warm-up strategy do it's job while accelerating (Andrew, that idle is the warm-up strategy, read about it in the Ford section). I watch the SoC and my energy screen (the assist gauge also) to make sure I maintain electric motor power till I at least get to 40mph. No hard acceleration that will increase RPM's and break the warm-up strategy. I use to do a few FS in "L" as soon as the strategy was over to build the SoC from ~32%, but sometimes it's best for traffic flow to shift to "N" and coast with only the generator load on the engine. ICE-ON coasting in "N" is a tool I use to build SoC all during the day and works great at highway speeds for P&G.

I stopped using Key-OFF FAS after I had those problems with my relays, but the FEH/MMH is most likely the best vehicle to FAS on the market. Return the key to the on position before 3 seconds and you keep all the gauges, power steering and power brakes till it's time to restart in "N" above 6mph. The engine has to run for at least 30 seconds after a restart in order to go EV if all other conditions are met.

This problem Andrew is having not being able to go EV almost sounds like battery reconditioning, but it shouldn't last that long if it was. The only other thing I can think of is the system is to hot from regen or something. Like Carl said, shift to "N" over 6mph and tap the brake pedal and see if it goes EV. If it does, the system is just hot. It may be getting hot from another reason than regen because of a bad ME pump, low R-14a A/C coolant or other problems. If it's hot out and your radiator is block, that may be the problem also.

It is normal for the brakes to grab when wet changing from regen to all pads.

Like everyone said here, shifting to "R" while going forward doesn't damage anything because it's computer controlled. There is no reverse gear, the traction motor just turns in reverse to go backwards. The engine doesn't drive reverse torque, only provides generator charging to the battery and assist power to the traction motor.

GaryG

Gary,

What happens if I do have to accelerate hard enough to break out of warm-up? A lot of mornings it's not very long before I have someone coming up behind at 55mph or more. I don't have the opportunity to EV much for a good 10 miles into my morning commute, so there's plenty of time to re-build SoC.

The start of my route is a bit of a challenge: All highway and mostly uphill. Below is a graph of the first 4 miles. On a good day I'm 30-32mpg by that time. Pretty good coming home though. I can usually gain another 1 or 2mpg. Even better if I can drop into EV near the end if there's no traffic, and EV the 400 feet up my driveway.

Thanks,

Rick


http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/StartingCommute.jpg

Carl,

Quick question: I'm in a rual area and I turn out onto a 2-lane highway when I start out every morning. I don't have the opportunity to EV much on the highway and have plenty of time to get back any SoC. So, would I be better off to get up to speed quickly after I pull out of the driveway? I've been trying to take it pretty easy if traffic allows.

Thanks,

Rick

BTW: Thanks for all you're work on the SGII xcodes! Don't know what I'd do without Soc!
I've wondered about this and sort of think that the fastest that you can accelerate while staying in warm-up mode is the best way if you are not going to have a chance to EV for several miles. In the warm-up mode, your HV battery has to power both the motor and the generator, so faster acceleration means a higher percentage of the power is being used to actually move the car. In EV the generator consumes no power, but in warm-up it has to counteract the ICE.

I've wondered about this and sort of think that the fastest that you can accelerate while staying in warm-up mode is the best way if you are not going to have a chance to EV for several miles. In the warm-up mode, your HV battery has to power both the motor and the generator, so faster acceleration means a higher percentage of the power is being used to actually move the car. In EV the generator consumes no power, but in warm-up it has to counteract the ICE.

How do I tell if I'm accelerating too fast and break out of warm-up (sorry if this has been answered before)?

Thanks,

Rick

How do I tell if I'm accelerating too fast and break out of warm-up (sorry if this has been answered before)?

Thanks,

Rick

The ICE RPM will stay relatively constant during warm-up mode. If you accelerate hard enough, you will pulll the RPM up substantially. I'm still not sure that it would be that much worse or exactly how much FE difference there is between the various methods during warm-up.

How do I tell if I'm accelerating too fast and break out of warm-up (sorry if this has been answered before)?

Thanks,

Rick

Your RPM's break from a high idle (~1,600rpm) when the engine is cold, and a lower idle (~1,200) when the engine had been ran and wasn't completely cold after a restrart. You can also watch the Charge/Assist gauge go from Assist to Charge when you loose the warm-up strategy. I've gotten good at knowing how hard to accelerate and keep the warm-up strategy till I get to at least 40mph. You can go higher than 40mph during the strategy because the engine is running. In other words it's not like EV when the engine will start above 40mph. Most of the time I always park with a very low SoC, so my battery SoC will go down from say ~41% to ~32% when you will loose warm-up because the computer will not let the SoC go below 32%.

From looking at your graph, it may be better for you to start out with a high SoC because if you drop the strategy with a low SoC and need to climb hills, your RPM's are going to go out of control. It looks like you have 3/4 mile going down at first to the highway? In your case, a key-off FAS in "N" may be better when you get to a point you can coast all the way down. My relays most likely went bad because of how fast I was returning the key back (less than a second) to the run position. You have 3 seconds to return the key to run without loosing power steering. The reason I'm recommending this is you don't want to waste the strategy going down hill. A key-off FAS will stop the strategy, but it will resume when you restart where it left off, provided you have enough SoC.

I did this at the start of the MPG Challenge where some people were pushing their vehicles to get started from the top of a hill. I just started Debbie's FEH, goosed it for a second to get moving, and then did a key-off FAS in "N" for a half mile down the hill to a stoplight. Restarted when the light turned green and accelerated using the warm-up strategy.

GaryG

Your RPM's break from a high idle (~1,600rpm) when the engine is cold, and a lower idle (~1,200) when the engine had been ran and wasn't completely cold after a restrart. You can also watch the Charge/Assist gauge go from Assist to Charge when you loose the warm-up strategy.

From looking at your graph, it may be better for you to start out with a high SoC because if you drop the strategy with a low SoC and need to climb hills, your RPM's are going to go out of control. It looks like you have 3/4 mile going down at first to the highway? In your case, a key-off FAS in "N" may be better when you get to a point you can coast all the way down

I did this at the start of the MPG Challenge where some people were pushing their vehicles to get started from the top of a hill.
GaryG

Gary,

Thanks, that helps. I usually get home with 49-50SoC, even with EV'ing up my 300 ft driveway. It's only a little lower if I was able to EV the last 1/4 mile or so on the Highway. It's a gentle downhill slope and I'm slowing down (re-gen) so it doesn't cost much SoC.

Not sure I want to try FAS. I really only have the 300ft downhill to start (the chart starts where I enter the highway and does not include the driveway). Then I'm level on an access road about 200ft until I enter the highway which starts the gentle uphill slope pretty quickly.

I have experienced the low SoC and trying to climb hills, and it's not good for MPG! Before my XGuage SCII, I could not tell if I was getting too low climbing some hills at the end of my trip to work. I can decide now if I want to kick on the ICE if I'm getting too low while climbing.

By the way, wasn't there a video of the MPG Challenge last year? Did that ever get posted anywhere?

Thanks,

Rick

Gary,

Thanks, that helps. I usually get home with 49-50SoC, even with EV'ing up my 300 ft driveway. It's only a little lower if I was able to EV the last 1/4 mile or so on the Highway. It's a gentle downhill slope and I'm slowing down (re-gen) so it doesn't cost much SoC.

Not sure I want to try FAS. I really only have the 300ft downhill to start (the chart starts where I enter the highway and does not include the driveway). Then I'm level on an access road about 200ft until I enter the highway which starts the gentle uphill slope pretty quickly.

I have experienced the low SoC and trying to climb hills, and it's not good for MPG! Before my XGuage SCII, I could not tell if I was getting too low climbing some hills at the end of my trip to work. I can decide now if I want to kick on the ICE if I'm getting too low while climbing.

By the way, wasn't there a video of the MPG Challenge last year? Did that ever get posted anywhere?

Thanks,

Rick

I sent the video's of my MPG Challenge to Wayne Gerdes soon after the Challenge. This video was a hour long, so I suspect it's to long to be posted here or even most 10 minute max video sites. Two people have requested a copy and I've sent those out. In addition, I sent Debbie Katz a standard copy and a blue-ray HD copy of her and my Challenge.

Having the 110V outlet allowed me to video over 2 hours in HD format, but the shot was from only one position of the road ahead from a tripod mounted between the rear seats which were folded down. However, this was history in the making with over 60mpg documented in a Ford SUV. Even with the SG reading 7.5% below the Nav Sys computer, the SG showed over 90mpg for the first 5 miles or so. The video shows the SG when the light is good for the camera. The 60 mpg plus may be a world record recorded at the MPG Challenge, but I've got over 70mpg in my FEH here in FL on 20 mile round trips without FAS and a low SoC from the beginning and end of a RT.

I found hills offer a unique challenge to improve MPG if you control RPM's and speed.

GaryG

You should have swithched the nav to read in L/100KM during the MPG challenge! I have a picture in the gallery when I did this coming home with a warm engine and high SoC. 2.4L/100kM -> 98.0 MPG.

I found hills offer a unique challenge to improve MPG if you control RPM's and speed.
GaryG
Hills are my biggest challenge here. That and the winds, especially in Spring and Fall (not much to do there but slow down). I use DWL as much as traffic allows, and one thing I am careful about now is losing too much speed before the next climb. Also, some acceleration on flat portions preceding the hill, or the end of the last downhill allow me to maintain higher MPG as I climb.

-- Rick

I had a chance to use the warm-up strategy today and thought I'd report back. I was parked in the turnout next to the highway entrance near our house for a while, and then started the car with the traffic clear. Pulled out onto the highway and accelerated lightly enough to keep the battery gauge showing significant assist. Going up a slight incline I was showing high 30's and low 40's for instant MPG. Not bad! SoC went from 51 down to around 48.

-- Rick