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Hello everybody,

Well, I've got the wife on board. We are going to trade in our '04 Toyota Highlander SUV for either a used FEH or used MMH. The wife is tired of $60 fillups, and I'm tired of watching it sit in the driveway depreciating exponentially as gas prices rise.

A second Prius or Insight or what have you would of course be my preference. Heck, going to one car only would be my REAL preference. But I'm meeting my better half halfway. She goes smaller & efficient, and gets to keep an SUV.

We like the FEH & MMH because they are the most efficient hybrid SUVs available, are available used, and are of course PHEV convertible at some date. The Mazda Tribute & Saturn Vue are interesting, but are probably too new and/or too expensive. Ditto the Highlander Hybrid. The Tahoe hybrid & like vehicles are of course the equivalent of 42 meals with a diet coke. ;)

So this thread is to use the great advice & experience of this community to help us find a quality used FEH / MMH in good condition. I know this will be quite a task to land one, given how hot they are. Any advice on how best to pull this off one would be appreciated! Thanks for your help in advance.

We will be utilizing dealerships, carmax, craigslist, ebay, and anything else we can think of.

And yes, I'm following in Dan's Prius + Hybrid SUV for the wife footsteps.

Marc, I was under the impression that the Mazda is functionally identical to the FEH as the technology is licensed from Ford? That doesn't help you with cost, but it is another data point to consider...

Don't forget Autotrader, its where I found my HCH listed. Here is a search (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/searchresults.jsp?num_records=25&search_lang=en&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&search_type=both&distance=200&address=78701&marketZipError=false&style_flag=1&make=FORD&model=ESCAPE&make2=MERC&model2=MARINER&make3=&start_year=1981&end_year=2009&min_price=&max_price=&transmission=&engine=Hybrid&drive=&doors=&fuel=&max_mileage=&color=&keywordsrep=&keywordsfyc=&keywords_display=&sort_type=priceDESC&body_code=0&certified=&advanced=y&default_sort=priceDESC&awsp=false&keywordsrep=&keywordsfyc=&systime=) set up to look at all used FEH/MMH within 200 miles of Austin. You can refine it from there. Just don't forget to leave Hybrid selected in the Engine selection.

Recently my Auto Broker looked up the value of my fully loaded '05 FWD FEH and found the wholesale value was in the ~$14,000 range, and retail was in the ~$17,000 range. I've been monitoring information on used purchases on these boards and found a few that said they paid over $17,000 with mileage far higher than the ~47,000 miles I have on my FEH. With gas prices rising, people are paying more for hybrids which makes me and others firm on the asking price of used hybrids above the book value.

There are other problems buying a used Hybrid. The warranty, no tax incentive, paying the cost of high repair and lower HV battery performance (reduced mileage).

Interest rates are at about the same as when I bought in '05 which I've never seen before. Hybrid technology has improved since that time, but new cost has stayed the same with more options available.

I'm waiting till the 2010 Prius in March of '09 to sell my '05 FEH. Just ordered a '09 FEH, so this will be a 2 hybrid family plus a '02 Explorer for towing the boat, breakdowns and an extra vehicle for my last household kid to use when a hybrid is not available.

Used vehicles were a better buy until the hybrid entered the market at todays interest rates and gas prices. A used vehicle is still used and can only be financed for a higher rate and shorter term. The repairs with no warranty will add to those cost. A new FEH/MMH may be a better buy these days!

GaryG

Thanks Gary.

I tell you what. We are all over the map as to what to do with this Highlander now. We're also considering:

(1) Trading it in and going with just the Prius
(2) Trading it in for a scooter
(3) Trading it in for a Zapped EV
(4) Trading it in for a used Yaris/Fit/Corolla (break even?)
(5) Trading it in for a used FEH (and paying for it)
(6) Buying a scangauge, hypermiling the @#$ out of it, using it as the family truck, and letting it die an eventual death in our hands

Now we are leaning towards (6), although I'm still looking at all options including the FEH. I'm disappointed we didn't move earlier, but it might be ok to wait. There's always the chance of a 12 month temporary subsiding of these ridiculous increases due to changing habits and lower demand, causing a short term opportunity when the rest of the world erroneously thinks we are maybe heading back to 1986 again.

Don't worry Houston, 1986 won't repeat itself.

I can't believe how fast these prices are increasing, and I'm a Peak Oil believer. $126/barrel? There's got to be a temporary retraction below $100 at some point before bouncing back to $126.

And yes, I'm following in Dan's Prius + Hybrid SUV for the wife footsteps.:flag: :woot:

Congrats!!! I have to tell you, there is nothing quite like getting the Misses to convert from FSP to MMH. She's a born-again FE nut now. Very cool indeed. Only downside is shes getting harder and harder for me to coax the keys out of her. She doesn't want me "polluting" her numbers :eek:

As far as the MMH, FEH, and MTH, they are all the same guts. Just different skin. We got ours from San Antonio (had 'em drive it over to Houston). I can hook you up with the guy we used if you like.

There was a rumor I heard that Ford has sold-out of model year 2008 FEH. I'd think the 2009 should start rolling in 3 months or so. If Used is OK, I'd suggest autonation.com, ebay motors, yahoo motors and the like. Just keep a spreadsheet of VINs since they all key off that. There is also a ford VIN fleet decoder. Point is, there are some dealers out there selling FEH as just plain ford escapes. I know people that got a 1 year old FEH for 14k. Dealer botched his research when posting it, and the customer called up and bought it over the phone site unseen.

I had a similar situation happen when we were shopping, but I decided I would head "right over" after work to "inspect it". They sold it on ebay while I was transitioning to a glide for my final approach to the dealership.

There are plenty out there, but the latency is next to zero. Have your car fax account primed.

As far as "how do you like it". We love it. I give my Prius 10 out of 10 and my MMH 9.9 out of 10. The 0.1 is because I can't put and EV switch on it, and my wife has to drive it without the "Eco" switch on with the kids in the summer. It would be nice if they could add an electric A/C compressor and EV switch. Besides that, it's perfect. And it drives over curbs!

11011011

I got to hand it to my wife. She is fully onboard our attempts to end our gas consumption. We are starting to get radical.

We are thinking about selling the Highlander and seeing how we do as a one car Prius family. Some recent developments that have moved us this way:

(1) $3.66/gallon
(2) National-Bike-to-Work day leads me to discover just how easy it is to bike in (13 miles downhill) and bus out (with bike in tow), which I'm now doing twice a week.
(3) These guys: http://www.austincarshare.org/ have a lot just blocks from our work
(4) Free money by unloading Highlander and dropping insurance. :)

We are still in the market for a PHEV-convertible second car. But we are gonna give it a go with one car and see how we fare. I'm lucky to be part of a team moving in the same direction.

Edit: Prius mileage will take a hit as the wife is still a bit wary of hypermiling. Luckily, she's a good driver and can pull 55 in mixed city/highway on most days. It'll do. ;)