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I have been asking the Honda dealership on anything they know concerning good hybrid battery care. I'm making sure I never let the 12-volt battery go dead (it weakened the OEM hybrid battery pack about three times). I'm also avoiding pushing the car hard. That includes going 113mph a couple of times and even worse keeping ahead of a black Suburban at 95mph over 100 miles between Childress and Amarillo, Texas. :o I had a recal or two and was too proud and stupid to slow down.

Here is the controversial comment comming from the Honda dealership:

Don't try to keep the battery fully charged all the time.

Many of us hypermilers make great effort to keep the batteries charged, but the dealer is saying it's shortening the battery life by overcharging it.

The Insight charge graph has about 20 bars, and I typically have 19 of them up. I'm starting to back off on this and just not worry about regen braking unless I'm in danger of a recal.

I may e-mail Honda to get some additional information.

The work on my Insight this year:

Feb 2006 - replaced the OEM battery pack, BCM unit, MCM unit after nearly 94,000 miles. Cost was $6,500 - Honda paid everything after the first $450.
June 2006 - Service done on a recall of Honda hybrids in mostly Sunbelt states. No charge to me, but cost Honda $1,800.

I believe the source of this statement is the May 12 letter from American Honda Service Division. See xcel's post of it here (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=817). Keeping the battery fully charged combined with certain other conditions can cause problems on 2000-2004 Insights.

Hi Chuck:

___A full SoC (19 or 20 of 20 bars) per the Insight’s display has absolutely nothing in common with a fully charged pack. The Insight’s IMA was designed around an almost 60% DoD with an ~ 80% SoC maximum and an ~ 20% minimum SoC on the bottom. The killer here is HEAT, RATES of charge/discharge, and CYCLING! Look at the states where the Honda notice went out too. Running the Insight at 19 of 20 bars does little to harm it vs. the other 3 factors. Repeated Cycling, repeated max regen/assist (very high C rates), and heat is what is killing them, whereas maintaining a full SoC can only add a slight amount of degradation and only when accompanied by high temps! A little knowledge of battery chemistry, longevity, and maintenance should straighten out those Honda’s tech’s and service writers but they haven’t a clue.

NREL – Modeling of the Honda Insight. (http://www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels/vsa/pdfs/31085.pdf)

Accelerated Test Protocol and Life Prediction Model (http://www.electrochem.org/dl/ma/202/pdfs/0227.PDF).
Li-Ion's act very similar to NiMH's in this regard.

___If you want to maintain your new Ni-MH pack in its best condition, limit regen/assist, SoC cycling, and most of all high temperatures! Every time you park, those windows have to be cracked even in the shade! It is just to hot in your Texas locale to let the NiMH packs cook off without ever being used.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

This is interesting. The HCH2 does not have a torque converter in the CVT. It uses the electric motor as the TC. When you launch from a stoplight, you see a very brief full assist condition. I wonder if that is bad for battery life.

Hi Sledge:

___Unfortunately, it is but Honda still loves to use IMA like a quick spooling Turbo. There is very little you can do about it other then try and sneak in some acceleration under Assist. Wait until you read Tarabell’s upcoming HCH-II article as there is a bit of info wrt acceleration that you might find as fascinating as I do ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Is the story essentially the same for the Prius-ambient temp, and in the car temps are bad for the battery pack?Is this a reason to be careful with the add on EV only button if you have installed it(I haven't ,but I was considering it)
Thanks,Charlie
PS-ON THE LONG TRIP MPG- We had such a huge load we ended up taking the Pilot on the NO to Flagstaff trip.The MPG was miserable(about 19.4).One tank did a lot of the damage(wife driving 232 miles 15.5 gallons), and we used 1.5 gallons during our rest stop/AC on/3 hr sleep).We got 22.8 mpg last Oct 2005 on the same route going home.Usually the drive home is 1.5 mpg better.The air filter was old(36000 miles-it slipped by me), and maybe the prevailing winds were even less favorable than usual. I'll see what happens on the trip home.The Prius would have gotten at least 38 mpg even with the bike rack hanging out in the wind.Next time , we'll take the Prius with a hitch carrier(20"x60") to carry the bike and "junk.I expect at least 23 mpg on the trip home.Tire pressure was highish-started at ~36 psi-on arrival(hot) it was 41 psi(the altitude was about 2 psi-temp was the rest.The 36 psi cold is at least 2 psi more than the other 6 trips.Sorry about the aside.Will change the PCV valve also-maybe spark plugs,but they usually last forever in modern cars(no lead,Good ignitions)

June 2006 - Service done on a recall of Honda hybrids in mostly Sunbelt states. No charge to me, but cost Honda $1,800

June recall? Sunbelt states? Does that include FL (I would assume)?

I was just inquiring about the 15k service pricing ($130 minimum $380 recommended) and they mentioned nothing of it.

I guess I need to go back there sooner than I hoped ... another 1000 miles to service mileage :( I was thinking about trading my car before then if I could find the right car (Insight ;) ) unless I change my mind again :p

Well, there are some things that need to be checked out under warranty anyway ... sounds like under a moderate turn (usually left) the battery is banging against something :eek: there is a thunk around the rear seats (and yes, the jack and tire are secure) and it occasionally doesn't charge when you release pressure from the gas (at just over half charge, but it coasts very nicely), and sometimes doesn't auto-stop or has a delayed auto-stop (stopped for a few seconds then decides to shut down). I have been putting it off because my Honda dealer doesn't give you a loaner, they have a shuttle service you sign in for to get you back and forth to work :mad: that is b.s. but i have greatly digressed from topic Sorry :o

Hope this is not redundant, but this is a recent memo from Honda. Not clear if it also includes Civics, but it's a warranty extension that includes Florida.

Date: May 12, 2006
To: All Honda Sales, Service & Parts Managers
From: American Honda Service Division
RE: Campaign Announcement

American Honda is announcing a product update to replace certain IMA components to help prevent IMA battery deterioration. We are also announcing a warranty extension for the IMA battery. Currently, this product update and warranty extension applies only to states where there is an abnormally high replacement rate for IMA batteries. These states include Arizona, California, Colorado, Florida, Hawaii, Nevada and Texas. In these states, the warranty for the IMA battery has been extended to 10 years of 150,000 miles, whichever occurs first.

The IMA battery control module(s) allows the battery to overcharge. Occasional overcharging is a desirable function, but too many frequently repeated cycles of overcharge can damage the IMA battery. This damage is the result of excessive current and heat build up. Unique local topographical and ambient conditions in affected states, combined with a driving cycle that typically keeps the IMA battery fully charged, creat this potential problem.

Repair Strategy
On 2000-01 Insights, the product update repair is to replace the battery condition monitor (BCM) and the motor control module (MCM). On 2002-04 Insights, the product update repair is to replace only the BCM. For product update repair and warranty information, refer to Service Bulletin 06-026, Product Update: Premature IMA Battery Module Failure.

Before beginning work on a vehicle for the product update, verify the elegibility by checking at least one of these items:

- The customer has a notification letter.
- The vehicle shown on your campaign responsibility report.
- The vehicle is shown as eligible on a VIN status inquiry.

In addition, check for a punch mark above the 14th character of the engine compartment VIN. A punch mark in that location means the product update has already been done.

To verify elegibility for the IMA battery warranty extension, you must do a VIN status inquiry. For more information on the warranty extension, refer to Service Bulletin 06-027: Warranty Extension: IMA Battery.

Customer Notification
Customers will be sent a notification of the product update and warranty extension the week of May 22, 2006. Approximately 4,700 vehicles are affected by this update campaign.

Parts information
A small quantity of IMA repair kits (for 2000-01 Insights) and battery control monitors (for 2002-04 Insights) will be available the week of May 15, 2006, through normal channels.