2022 Kia Carnival for North American Market

Discussion in 'Kia' started by Jay, Mar 1, 2021.

  1. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    The new Kia Carnival minivan was revealed a few days ago and we now have specs and pricing on the Kia website. We already know most of the features since the Carnival has been for sale in S. Korea for more than a year now. The main surprise was that Kia decided to keep the Korean Carnival name in favor of the Sedona name for the US. The Carnival is the first Kia to wear the new Kia logo. Hits: Styling. Man, this is a handsome vehicle! Kia just knocked the styling out of the park, I think. Also, the normally aspirated V6 makes 290 hp in a minivan that weighs only 4376 lbs for 15.2 lb/hp. This thing should rip (for a minivan)! For comparison, the new Sienna makes 245 net hybrid hp in a 4610 lb vehicle for 18.8 lb/hp. It's amazing to me that Toyota's 4 cyl hybrid power plant weighs so much more than Kia's V6. Or maybe Toyota just isn't paying attention to weight at all. The 2nd row seats easily remove in the Kia and the cargo area will hold 4x8 sheets of whatever. Finally, price starts at $32,100 so you get a lot of stuff for the money. The Sienna starts at $34,460.

    Misses: EPA fuel economy of 19/26/22 and a 19 gal tank add up to mediocre range. The Sienna's 36/36/36 and 18 gal tank just kills the rest of the segment. Also, no AWD offered in the Kia.

    BillLin likes this.
  2. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    Looks nice. It is SUV-like in shape (longer hood? than typical minivans and maybe not as tall?) but has more volume than SUVs by virtue of the low floor. I agree it needs better fuel economy to be truly competitive, but people will buy it because it has good bang for the buck and styling and features, and shouldn't receive complaints about being slow. I wonder how long this model will last in its present form? With other models (SUVs) going hybrid and plug-in hybrid, I would not have expected a "new" model without fuel economy upgrades to be a long-term model.
    Jay likes this.
  3. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    Toyota is clearly the technology leader in the segment now. Kia has brought a knife to a gunfight without the AWD. The Carnival will appeal to those who value performance over FE, who don't like the looks of the other minivans in general and the Sienna in particular, and who want the damn 2nd row seats to come out (or fold away).
    BillLin likes this.
  4. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    I don't particularly like the Sienna's look either, but I'm more about function over form... Stowaway or easily removable seating would be my choice if I were in the market for a minivan.
    Jay likes this.
  5. MaxxMPG

    MaxxMPG Hasta Lavista AAA-Vee Von't Be Bach

    The Carnival is built from the same platform as the Sonata/K5 and SantaFe/Sorento. So by design, it's hybrid-ready. But Kia appears to be moving away from hybrids for some reason. I suspect it's the marketing team because they have been slowiy turning Kia into Korean Pontiac with their "We Build Excitement"-themed oversized wheels and stylized light clusters. The Forte loses its name and becomes the K3 during the next reskin, following Pontiac's unfortunate mistake of 40 years ago, with the T1000, J2000 and A6000. Nobody bought them. They went back to names and people lined up to buy. I was proud to tell people, "I drive a Pontiac GranDammit" but would recoil in shame if I had to tell them I drove a "Pontiac N4000". Lincoln failed too with its Mk* nonsense. Give it a name that people can remember and watch them buy one for their very own.

    Kia is not abandoning hybrid drive completely. They are keeping the Niro, and the Sorento will be offered as a hybrid in FWD only.

    My sister's Optima hybrid lease is up this month and she will be bouncing over to Hyundai to get the Sonata hybrid - switching from Korean Pontiac back to Korean Chevrolet in order to get the correct powertrain for a passenger car. She laments the death of the Optima because the K5 is now available in "base" and "FSP" models only. To get the heated/ventilated seats and other niceties, you get stuck with the overpowered engine and unproven transmission. No hybrid available at any price. No thank you. The Sonata has everything she could possibly want except a sunroof. It has the solar panel roof instead. Useless if it's parked in a garage at the office, but it does look cool - especially on a Pearl White car.

    My guess is they could make the Carnival a hybrid in under 25 minutes if they so decided. The only question (and I'm sure they already planned for it and therefore know the answer) is where to put the battery. The HV battery could share space with the fuel tank, which wouldn't need as much space.

    The new Carnival definitely does crank up the style - both inside and out.
    Jay, EdwinTheMagnificent and BillLin like this.
  6. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    I'm pretty sure I would pick a hybrid 4 cyl Carnival over the V6 Carnival if the fuel economy was competitive with the hybrid Sienna. I might even pick a hybrid Carnival over the hybrid Sienna. One major bone of contention with the Sienna for me is the NiMH traction battery. These batteries are completely obsolete. They were obsolete 10 years ago but they're utterly and completely obsolete now. The traction battery is the most expensive component on the car and I want it to be the best tech available. Another failing is the pb-acid 12-V. Come on, Toyota! This should also be Lithium-ion since it's not doing starting duty. The Sienna is fat and over weight. They could have trimmed 100 lbs easy by using modern Lithium-ion batteries. In contrast, Hyundai/Kia use modern lithium-polymer batteries by LG. Don't know if the 12-V battery is pb-acid on the hybrid Sonata but on the Niro and Ioniq it is lithium-ion and they save 25 lbs right there.

    On the other hand, I have driven the hybrid Sienna and it is polished. They've refined the hybrid funkiness right out of it. Can't say the same for the hybrid Hyundais/Kias I've driven.
    EdwinTheMagnificent and BillLin like this.
  7. MaxxMPG

    MaxxMPG Hasta Lavista AAA-Vee Von't Be Bach

    The current generation Sonata hybrid (2020+) adopts the Niro/Ioniq strategy of reserving a corner of the hybrid battery to use as a 12v starter-pack. It even has the "12v reset" button on the dash. The only disadvantage to the system is that you can't use your hybrid to jump start another car. Considering the number of people who blow up their car trying to jump start somebody, this limitation is not such a bad idea.
    EdwinTheMagnificent, Jay and BillLin like this.
  8. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    I like the hybrid funkiness. I drove a RAV4 Hybrid last night and they polished
    ALL of the funk out of it. I like my Prius.
    BillLin likes this.
  9. PaleMelanesian

    PaleMelanesian Beat the System Staff Member

    The Kia is hands down the best looking minivan. Fantastic. Probably the cheapest too.

    But with Toyota's hybrid out there, it's a big fat no from me. I see a Sienna in my driveway within a couple years. I mean, that's better mpg than my Fit (epa ;)). The non-removable middle seats bothered me for about 5 minutes, but then I remembered I have a trailer. And it can tow a full 3500 lb.

    Odyssey... standard powertrain = no.
    Kia... same.
    Chrysler... plug-in hybrid is great, but I trust Toyota's hybrid history a whole lot more.
    BillLin, Jay and EdwinTheMagnificent like this.
  10. WriConsult

    WriConsult Super Moderator

    Agreed, if you've gotta have a minivan, the Sienna seems a slam dunk compared with the competition.

    So frustrating when Hyundai/Kia still sometimes disappoints on the FE front. Although for those of us who don't need anything quite as big as a "mini"van in our garages, at least the Kia Sorento hybrid would seem promising.
    PaleMelanesian and BillLin like this.

Share This Page