2022 Hyundai Tucson HEV/PHEV Preview

Discussion in 'In the News' started by xcel, Feb 8, 2021.

  1. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    I wish Toyota would match that free maintenance. Lately, it's been 2 years or 25000 miles, whichever comes first. So that's 2 oil changes at best.

    I hear you. The only icing with buying a PHEV in the US right now is most are eligible for the tax credit, whether $4500 or so for the smaller packs (Prius Prime) or the full $7500 for the big packs. (I'm not going to argue with those who owe so little taxes that they cannot take advantage. :D) Use the credit over multiple years if you have to. Be sure to check with your tax accountant. The PHEV could be the better buy over the same model in hybrid form. (I won't argue with those who feel that every hybrid $ needs justification and pay back in x number of years. :) Check out Wayne's TCO report in the ride sharing topics.)
     
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  2. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    Although there's some criticism for PHEV's (compared to EV's), to me at the moment they are still best balance until we see fast charging locations everywhere which will be a while. Majority of my trips are in town so for these I don't need any gas for my Sonata PHEV. For longer trips I need the larger range and don't want the range anxiety or finding a slow loading station. And I still get 600 mi range.

    Weird enough it's getting confusing with Tucson and Sante Fe. The Santa Fe seems as efficient yet I think is slightly larger SUV. And PHEV is also coming late this year.
    I think the upcoming Lexus NX PHEV late this year might beat those numbers easily. More expensive but most likely more powerful. Interior though seems bit Venza like.
     
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  3. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

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  4. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    The all-new 2022 Tucson designs global identity is alive and well in the HEV and PHEV. I have seen more than my fair share of 2021 Elantra and Sonatas with the brands “Parametric Dynamics” design theme. The more I see them, the more attractive they get. The all-new Elantra in particular looks great from the rear quarter panel angle. Will that carry over to the 2022 Hyundai Tucson? I do not know.

    2022 Hyundai Tucson HEV/PHEV-32 Powertrain

    [​IMG]

    The 2022 Hyundai Tucson Hybrid w/ the 1.49 kWh Li-Po pack provides owners with decent efficiency. It is powered by the brands 1.6L GDI-T I4 mated to a std. 6-speed AT with 180 hp and 195 lb-ft of torque and the combined gas engine and electric motors of 226 hp for the HEV.

    The Blue Hybrid trim is rated at 38/38/38 mpgUS city/highway/combined while the SEL and Limited are rated at 37/36/37 mpgUS city/highway/combined. There is no way not to compare the Hyundai newcomer to the class leading 219 combined hp 2021 Toyota RAV4 HEV in all trims rated at 41/38/40 mpgUS city/highway/combined. The RAV4 Hybrid is also the best-selling Hybrid in the country while the non-hybrid platform is the best-selling vehicle outside the Ford F-150 in the U.S.

    The 2022 Hyundai Tucson PHEV-32 features a 261 combined hp, 1.6L direct-injected and turbocharged hybrid powertrain coupled to a std. 6-speed AT. The Plug-in Hybrid battery is larger than the hybrid battery, with 13.8 kWh of power, yielding an all-electric range (AER) of 32 miles. On an L2 through its onboard 7.2 kW charger, charging from flat to full is accomplished in just under two hours. While its efficiency has not yet been homologized, Hyundai states it will arrive with a 30 mpg combined rating. Comparing the Tucson PHEV to the hot selling 302 hp 2021 Toyota RAV4 Prime with its 40/36/38 mpgUS city/highway/combined and 42-miles of AER, it falls short in terms of power, AER, and std. efficiency.

    2022 Hyundai Tucson PHEV-32

    [​IMG]

    2022 Hyundai Tucson Hybrid Pricing

    Tucson HEV Blue - $29,050
    Tucson HEV SEL - $31,650
    Tucson HEV Limited - $37,350

    This compares favorably with the 2021 Toyota RAV4 AWD HEV trims with the following prices:

    RAV4 HEV LE - $28,500
    RAV4 HEV XLE - $29,795
    RAV4 HEV XLE Premium - $32,500
    RAV4 HEV XSE - $34,450
    RAV4 HEV Limited - $37,030

    All the above Toyota's arrive with an additional $1,135 D&H charge.

    The 2022 Hyundai Tucson PHEV-32 pricing will be released shortly and both the HEV and PHEV will have a D&H charge of $1,185.

    HTRAC AWD in the PHEV

    The all-new 2022 Santa Fe Hybrid and Plug-in Hybrids will arrive with standard mechanical HTRAC AWD. Hyundai’s latest HTRAC AWD. I do not know if it uses a mechanical prop shaft or a third electric motor out back yet.

    [​IMG]

    The 2022 Hyundai Tucson HEV and PHEV models feature Hyundai’s e-handling technology, which applies electric motor torque control according to dynamic inputs and road conditions to improve cornering performance. As a Tucson HEV/PHEV turns-in to a corner, the electric motor system applies incremental braking force to the front wheels, increasing their tire contact patch on the road surface for enhanced traction and steering response while initiating turn-in. Then, as the vehicle moves to exit the corner, the electric motor applies precise torque to the rear axle, increasing the rear tire contact patches for enhanced traction and control while accelerating out of the corner.

    Where the Hyundai’s excel is their warranty. Namely, America’s Best Warranty w/ 10-year/100,000-mile powertrain, 5-year/60,000-mile new vehicle, and 7-year anti-perforation plus Complimentary Maintenance for 3 years/36,000 miles of normal oil changes and tire rotations.

    [​IMG]

    The 2022 Hyundai PHEVs 30 mpg combined rating has me scratching my head as that is a large falloff from the Hybrids 38 mpg rating. Pricing of the Hybrid is approximately the same as the RAV4 Hybrid so it is competitive on that front. PHEV pricing will be released soon.

    The Tucson PHEV will be produced in Ulsan, Korea and be available this summer.

    Wayne
     
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  5. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    These all get the mechanical driveshaft. I'm curious why these FWD to AWD remain FWD if they're running a shaft to the back anyway. They'd have better balance if they were longitudinally mounted front engine RWD with a shaft to the front for the AWD. That way they could mount the engine/transmission behind the front wheels for a mid-engine layout instead of putting all that weight ahead of the front axle.

    I really like the new Tucson and for awhile it shot up to #1 on my buy list but I can't reconcile the trim levels. I want the hybrid and the blue (entry level) trim has most of the stuff I want without the 19" wheels and sunroof I expressly do not want. The marketing MBAs stripped the LED instruments out of it and fitted it with analog instruments lifted from a 1980s Yugo. Now I'm stuck with deciding which I dislike more; the hated low profile wheels and useless sunroof and extra $2k+ for the next trim up, or those Fred Flintstone analog instruments that don't even belong in this century. The MBAs want me to pony up the extra $2k+. Instead, I will hoist them the middle finger and see if Kia can do better with the Sportage. Maybe Jeep will finally release their Grand Cherokee that has the proper RWD/AWD setup.
     
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  6. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Jay:

    I hear you loud and clear. I am in the market for a 21 RAV4 Prime for both my mom and my wife. I was hoping that the 22 Tucson PHEV would offer an alternative but the 30 mpg combined efficiency and rated 32-miles AER falls flat in the comparison.

    You may or may not have noticed the lack of a DCT. While efficient, I was not the only one with problems with it. I think Hyundai did the right thing by moving to a slush box but the 2.5L in the non-hybrid includes an 8-speed. The HEV/PHEVs arrive with an aging 6-speed AT for some reason???

    And about the displays... Remember the Ioniq Blue includes the lower quality 4.2" display while the SE, SEL, and Limited includes the more modern 7". For $1,950, the SE also adds a 10-way power driver seat, Heated front seats, Rear Center Armrests with cupholders, Leather wrapped wheel, Paddle Shifters <-- Useless, and XM radio, plus RCTA and BSM. Those additions are not worth the $1,950 upcharge imho. :(

    Then we have the std. smaller 8" display head unit offering wireless AA and ACP whereas the more expensive 10.25" display head units w/ wireless Qi chargers do not. That is in both the Ioniq and Tucson lineup. WTH???

    Wayne
     
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  7. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    There's also the upcoming Santa Fe PHEV which C&D reports to get 33 mpg combined, 30 mile range and starting at 35K for SEL model. Yet I think it's a larger vehicle. We'll know more closer to summer but seems potentially more interesting.
     
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  8. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    What I really like about Hyundai's HEV/PHEV lineup is the turbo 1.6 with CVVD. Hyundai is really flexing their engineering prowess by giving us both a gutsy modern turbo and hybrid at once for a very reasonable price. I'm OK with the styling of the Tucson but Kias look better to me. I'm perplexed that the HEV/PHEVs get a conventional 6-speed while the non-electrified Tucsons get the 8-speed DCT. This seems backwards to me. The hybrids should mate to the DCT and the non-hybrids the conventional 6-speed. This would match the more efficient DCT with a drivetrain that doesn't press the DCT clutches into torque multiplication duty. Give the less efficient 6-speed the less efficient 2.5 L engine (and a torque converter) to customers that aren't paying a premium for fuel economy as are the HEV/PHEV customers. The naturally aspirated 2.5 L and 8-speed DCT combo have good EPA numbers and I would look at that combo but, like Wayne, I'm skeptical of the longevity of the DCT without a torque converter or pancake motor to do torque multiplication at low speeds and startup. The gearing on the 6-speed for the hybrids is quite tall. I worked through the numbers and get only 1780 rpm @ 60mph!

    As I cast about for another vehicle that hasn't been MBAed, I see the Kia Sportage is coming with the same hybrid engine choices of the Tucson. Like the Tucson, it comes in long wheelbase and short wheelbase versions. I'm hearing that the US will get the short wheelbase version of the Sportage and that's no good for me. The Santa Fe is also coming with the same hybrid engine/drivetrain choices as the Tucson but it's quite heavy--about 400 lbs (!) heavier than the Tucson. The new long-wheelbase Tucson we're getting in the US has about the same interior space as the new Santa Fe.
     
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  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    It is because the platform and transmission they have are designed to be FWD, and with it being an asymmetrical system like nearly everyone else, there might be an efficiency advantage to having a FWD bias. That was a major reason why FWD replaced RWD in the first place. There is a greater efficiency loss to a longitudinal engine's output when turning it 90 degrees for the axle than having the engine and axle parallel. It is acceptable when the AWD system is symmetrical, or the car's purpose makes RWD a better option. That doesn't apply to the majority of the cars though.

    If you did end up with the SEL, swapping the wheels for the Blue's would likely get you most of the way to the Blue's efficiency.
    Pricing might sway things a bit in the Tucson's favor, along with availability if Hyundai learned its lesson with the Ioniq battery shortage. For those that can make regular use of Level 2 charging, the faster rate there could be a draw. To get 6.6kW in the Rav4 Prime, you have to get the XSE in the US. The of the line up are just 3.3kW.

    The motor needs space, which might be why the hybrids only have the 6 speed. It's the same with the Sonata. How do the gear ratios compare to the 8-speed; perhaps the hybrids skipped some gears with the motor's help?

    The Prius Prime doesn't get Android Auto or Carplay with the larger display either.
    The non-hybrid Tucsons have a traditional automatic. When the DCT in the model started having issues a few years ago, Hyundai went back to the step transmission. Reports for the 2022 are for an 8 speed automatic, and Hyundai's site clearly labels DCTs from automatics. The only non-hybrids with a DCT have it as an option for sport trims and packages.

    Cost favors the 6 speed over the newer 8 speed, but it will also have a potential advantage in reliability, even if the hybrid's are getting different gear ratios.
     
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  10. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Trollbait:

    Good detail as always.

    Regarding the 2021 RAV4 Primes infotainment, the 9" display I was using in a 21 RAV4 Prime XSE did have Android Auto but it was probably a prototype. Toyota is showing AA and ACP available on both the std. 8" in the SE and the XSE with the std. Audio Plus with 9" display and upgraded Premium Audio, also with the 9" display.

    2020 Toyota Prius Prime LE and 2021 Toyota RAV4 Prime XSE

    [​IMG]
    I did not take a single pic of the RAV4 XSE Prime's 9" central display. :(

    Regarding pricing, the 21 RAV4 Hybrid is a darn good deal right now with easy availability, $500 cash on the hood, and $1,500 off retail at numerous Toyota dealerships here in San Diego. The Prime is still going for $5k to $10k markups over retail all over California due to limited supply but as soon as a CRV/Tucson PHEVs are released, that supply shortage will magically change in days. Toyota knows what they are doing here.

    Jay, I do not see the 1.6L GDI-T as a plus in the 2022 Tucson HEV/PHEV lineup. Again, comparing to the RAV4 HEV/Prime, the 2.5L I4 from the Camry Hybrid and used in the Camry, Avalon, ES, and RAV4 is possibly the best gasoline hybrid drivetrain ever built. More power, no turbo, partial DI, and HSD is the epitome of hybrid reliability.

    A few case study's regarding recent model year Hyundai Hybrid reliability...

    The HSG in our 2017 Sonata Hybrid Limited disintegrated last year (61k miles) and while under warranty, the damn thing cost $1,750 for the unit and another $300 to install it if we were outside of the warranty. Another friend, Jesse R., was given a 2017 Sonata Hybrid SE (66k miles) and within 2-months, the A/C compressor died leaving him with a $2k bill. A third friend, Bob Winger, with a 2016 Sonata Hybrid Limited (115k miles) lost his 2.0L just 2-weeks ago due to a possible wrist pin failure. Hyundai is supposed to cover it due to a recent recall but he is without a vehicle for the time being awaiting the verdict. I have simply lost faith in the Hyundai Hybrid drivetrains and anything with a DCT given the numerous failures and personal experiences no matter the model or trim. :(

    A bit OT but the above does not mean I did not consider a 2021 Ioniq SE PHEV w/ wireless AA and 8" screen, much more comfortable driver seat, no turbo, and relatively low $26,700 retail starting point - $27,860 w/ mats and D&H. The 21 Prius Prime LE however cost significantly less with the much higher OEM rebates - $4,500 vs $1,750, Uber rebate - $750, has much higher reliability due in part to HSD vs a DCT equipped 6-speed AT in the Ioniq, and provides significantly higher resale.

    The 2021 Elantra Hybrid was also a consideration but without the $4,502 Fed Tax Credit, $1,000 CVRP State tax rebate, $900.11 CARB Clean Fuel Rebate, and $750 Uber rebate available like on the Prius Prime, the $24,710 w/ mats and D&H and at most a $1k discount off MSRP was way too expensive – almost $8.5k more all-in - in the comparison after TTL and Reg. :(

    Wayne
     
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  11. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    The Toyota RAV4 Hybrid is still on the menu for me. What really puts me off the Toyota hybrids is those NiMH batteries--those completely and utterly obsolete NiMH batteries. It's a big deal to me since the battery pack is the most expensive component on the car. I want modern Li-Ion battery technology. For a short while, Toyota fitted Li-Ion batteries in the RAV4 Hybrid but now they are back to NiMH batteries again. That short Li-Ion series would be the only RAV4 I would consider. As far as reliability goes, the few people I know with hyundai hybrids have had very reliable service from them. Toyota's hybrid drivetrain is very solid and I wouldn't have any qualms about buying a Toyota hybrid, but Hyundai stands behind their cars with a better warranty.

    I could have sworn that the 2022 Tucson non-hybrids got an 8-speed wet clutch DCT and that was the main reason I wasn't interested. I can't find any reference to it now. Thanks for the correction.
     
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  12. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    Toyota's stated reason for using NiMH in the Prius AWD, which likely extends to other AWD hybrids, is that NiMH has better performance at lower temperatures, Considering most people state they want AWD for inclement weather, and much of that is snow and ice, it seems reasonable. I personally just think they are being stubborn in trying to milk all they can from their NiMH investment. They also don't seem to have enough Li-ion supply lined up. That said, since Toyota is just using Li-ion for weight savings, it doesn't matter much which battery is in the hybrid.

    When perusing the Hyundai site yesterday, I saw a 8 speed wet DCT listed for one of the models, Sonata IIRC. It was an optional choice that I didn't into how you could get it. There was also a 7 speed DCT as option for non-hybrids.
     
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  13. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    The new Veloster and Santa Fe get the 8-speed wet-clutch DCT. I don't know where I got the idea this was going to be used in the new Tucson but I suspect it was from those foreign country utubes I had been watching. Maybe they get it in Tucsons over there.
     
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  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    Got curious.
    The 8 speed DCT is also on the Sonata N-line. The Kona, Elantra, and non-N Veloster have the 7 speed as an option. All the models equipped with a DCT also have a turbo engine. Guess Hyundai figures the low end torque is needed for reliability and/or shift performance/quality.
    Quick check of articles only mention the new Tucson getting the 2.5L in the non-hybrid, but one did say an N-line trim was coming later. So a turbo plus DCT may happen here, and other markets might be getting different engines and transmissions.
     
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  15. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    For the US, the N-Line Tucson is strictly an appearance option. No performance or suspension changes. Hyundai is making a wide array of engine/transmission options for other countries including a 2.2 turbo diesel for Australia and 48 V mild hybrid for a number of countries. In Italy, I see they can get upper-level trims without the hated sunroof.
     
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  16. Dorean Clarke

    Dorean Clarke Well-Known Member

    Hmmm. Interesting. Though I am having a second thought.
     
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  17. Hi @xcel , thank you for that review.

    I've been driving the Tucson since early june (upgraded from a Kia Niro HEV) and it is a real joy. Both are FWD.
    Regarding FE, it is around 6.0L/100km after 6000km (215/65/17inch wheels) and I was around 5.6L/100 on the Niro hybrid which has almost 100hp less (but had 18inch wheels...).
    The engine and gearbox are snappier and the downshift phenomenon (to recharge) i was mentioning on another thread almost never occurs.

    I pumped a little more air in the tires (2.7 instead of 2.4 bar, max sidewall being 3.4 bar), but i'm just wondering : Could there a some sort of calculation the electric motor does regarding wheel revolutions to decide when to switch in EV ?
    That would mean that over-inflating could mess up the system and be counterintuitive for FE.
    If you think there is no link at all, so getting closer to max sidewall should give better FE as in all cars, am I right?
     
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  18. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    Hi Marc,

    I have no data, just doing a thought exercise. There would have to be allowance for variations around the design center (optimal wheel rate of rotation). There would be more variation between different wheel and tire sizes even if they are compatible replacements. (e.g. 225/55R18 vs 235/65R16 diameter differences in addition to the weight differences) I would think the pressure variation induced tire diameter change would be within those design parameters.

    The tire rolling resistance based on tire design and compound will also likely have a greater effect on the motor efficiency, because at any given RPM, the motor would draw a different amount of current based on the load at that moment.

    This is me hand-waving based on my gut feel.:D

    If you hold all variables constant and only change the circumference of the tire at constant vehicle speed, I suspect a lower motor RPM would be slightly more optimal within those small differences. In real life, you would have decreased the rolling resistance at the same time when you increase the pressure.

    Again in real life, the driver would be accelerating and decelerating. I do not have a gut feel for how the diameter difference would affect the efficiency of accelerating from a standstill. Power, time, distance, acceleration rate, etc. Conclusions may be more easily arrived at through experimentation in the laboratory.
     
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  19. Hi @BillLin , thank you for the very technical answer, i was not asking that much :)

    In fact i'm just wondering if increasing air pressure in tires is in all cases providing better gas mileage. Or if there are cases (like hybrid vehicles which decide when to go in EV or out) where it is better to leave the tires at their official pressure to get the best FE.
    I'm assuming that without any evidence, over-inflating thus reducing contact and friction, will always be in favor of FE.
     
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  20. RedylC94

    RedylC94 Well-Known Member

    That's a reasonable assumption, except perhaps on very rough road surfaces. Inflation pressure within reasonable limits affects distance travelled per revolution only a little.
     
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