US market 2021 Kia Sorento reveal 9/22/2020

Discussion in 'Kia' started by MaxxMPG, Sep 22, 2020.

  1. MaxxMPG

    MaxxMPG Hasta Lavista AAA-Vee Von't Be Bach

    On the first day of Autumn, Kia is doing the contemporary thing - a digital reveal rather than gathering hundreds of chattering journalists in one stuffy room.

    The 2021 Kia Sorento is the star today - based on the updated platform shared with the Sonata and K5 and gaining all the benefits of the new platform.

    What I found a couple of weeks ago on the EPA site made the new Sorento particularly interesting. Hiding in the spreadsheet for fuel economy test results is: The Sorento hybrid.
    Here are the numbers:
    Sorento Hybrid 1.6L Auto 39/35/37 54/49.8/52.0255
    They're city/highway/combined - Monroney numbers and then dyno test numbers.

    Kia has EPA certified cars in the past that never quite made it to market. But with the RAV4/CRV/Highlander/Escape hybrids out there and selling, I suspect they will offer the Sorento hybrid - at least in CARB states.

    Can't wait to dig into the news when the curtain lifts at 11am PDT (2pm EDT).
     
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  2. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    I have had some seat time in the RAV4 Hybrid. The Kia had better be pretty good.
     
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  3. MaxxMPG

    MaxxMPG Hasta Lavista AAA-Vee Von't Be Bach

    Information on the 2021 Sorento that CleanMPG'ers would care about:
    • New Turbo-Hybrid powertrain: Features 42 additional horsepower and nearly 50% better fuel economy than outgoing Sorento base engine
      • Most Powerful HEV in its class: 227-horsepower and estimated 37 MPG combined
      • Available Plug-in Hybrid option with 261 horsepower and an estimated 30 miles of pure electric driving range
    • More interior flexibility: Improved legroom and cargo room than outgoing Sorento, and available second-row captain’s chairs, allowing buyers to select either 4+2 or 5+2 seating.
      • Best-in-class front/rear legroom and overall interior passenger volume.
    Of course, it has all the nannies that protect stupid motorists from themselves.
    And the tail lights appear to be inspired by the 1960 Edsel.

    Features of the new 3rd generation platform:
    • Increased wheelbase by nearly 1.4 inches for more interior space
    • Body-in-white weight is reduced by 5.6% and overall weight is reduced by 3.1% (119 lbs.)
    • Average tensile strength is improved by 4% compared to the previous Sorento
    • Improved driving dynamics, including acceleration, ride and handling, and noise vibration and harshness (NVH)
    • Distribution of impact kinetic energy forces through multi-load-path body structure
    • Versatility to accommodate alternate drivetrains, such as hybrid and plug-in hybrid (available in calendar year 2021)

    The four available powertrains:
    • 2.5-liter GDI 4-cylinder
      • 8-speed automatic transmission
      • 191 horsepower and 182 lb.-ft. torque
      • FWD or AWD
      • AWD system uses torque-vectoring with center-locking differential to provide extra power to rear wheels in slippery conditions4
      • Estimated combined (city and highway) 27 mpg (2 mpg increase over previous Sorento)
    • 2.5-liter GDI 4-cylinder Turbo
      • Segment exclusive 8-speed wet dual clutch automatic transmission
      • 281 horsepower and 311 lb.-ft. torque
      • FWD or AWD
      • 3,500 lbs. of towing capability
      • Estimated combined 25 mpg (3 mpg increase over previous V6 Sorento)
    • 1.6-liter GDI 4-cylinder Turbo Hybrid with 44 kW electric motor
      • 6-speed automatic transmission
      • 227 horsepower
      • 1.5 kWh battery
      • FWD
      • Estimated 39 MPG city / 35 highway / 37 combined
    • 1.6-liter GDI 4-cylinder Turbo Plug-in Hybrid with 66.9 kW electric motor (available in 2021)
      • 6-speed automatic transmission
      • 261 horsepower
      • 13.8 kWh battery
      • Estimated 30-mile all-electric range
      • AWD
    Looking only at the numbers, it appears to be where it needs to be to compete with the other compact and midsize crossovers on the market.
    Our favorite auto tester will have to get his hands on one of the new hybrids for some steady state runs on the 405 to see what it really offers...
     
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  4. Dorean Clarke

    Dorean Clarke Well-Known Member

    Great deal!
     
  5. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    I've been looking at these. The 2.5 L turbo mated to the DCT gives me pause. I don't like the DCT without a torque converter or p2 hybrid motor to do the work of moving the car from a full stop or near stop. The DCT clutches have a poor history of holding up when the 1,3,5 clutch is forced into torque multiplication duty. I see Kia now uses a wet clutch which may or may not solve the problems. 3500lbs of towing capacity which is only OK. I don't need or want the 3rd row seats. It is the same length as the Jeep Grand Cherokee which is about the length I want but I much prefer Jeep's RWD-based AWD.

    The 1.6L turbo hybrid would be the power plant of choice were it not for no AWD (?!) Lack of AWD will be a deal-killer for many--including me. Oddly, it has a conventional planetary 6-speed where the DCT 8 speed would have been more appropriate and the conventional 6-speed belongs on the 2.5L turbo non-hybrid. I am unable to determine if the 1.6 turbo here has the trick CVVD (continuously variable valve duration) system. I think the 2.5L turbo does.

    As for styling, Kia's styling guys are hitting home runs with the Telluride and Carnival, and styling sells vehicles. The Sorento leaves me cold but not as cold as the goofy Hyundais. Overall, I'll wait for the Jeep GC and see what it's like. I doubt they'll have a HEV though, only PHEV which I don't want. A 2.5L turbo 4 would work also.
     
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  6. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    I don't know if CVVT is the same as the referenced CVVD...

    https://www.kia.com/us/en/sorento-hybrid/specs
    Drivetrain -> Engine Valve Gear -> Continuously Variable Valve Timing (CVVT)

    edit: I believe they use the same nomenclature on the 2.5 liter engine. Isn't this at the basis of how Atkinson cycle engines are implemented these days, with delayed valve closure? Variable would mean they can "cheat" more power when they need it. Oops, I didn't say that. :D
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2021
  7. MaxxMPG

    MaxxMPG Hasta Lavista AAA-Vee Von't Be Bach

    A two-row AWD hybrid SUV is coming this year - the 2022 Tucson hybrid. It has the engine/transmission from the Sonata hybrid - 1.6t engine and 6 speed automatic with MG2 in place of the torque converter. This technology has been around for a decade now and has proven itself pretty well in city cabs over the years.
    The Tucson Blue HEV has the same equipment as the SEL AWD and the cost difference between the two is $4100. But going up to the Limited trim, the hybrid upcharge is only $1250.
    The styling of the new Tucson is a little sci-fi - looking like a prop from the next RoboCop movie - but the powertrain sounds like a solid entry in a hot segment.
     
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  8. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the link, Bill. I guess it means it doesn't have the trick CVVD valvegear even though they make a 1.6L turbo with CVVD. It won a 10 Best Engines award from Wards Auto and yet it is inexplicably MIA in the NA market. We discussed CVVD here a while ago: http://www.cleanmpg.com/community/index.php?threads/56379/
     
    BillLin likes this.
  9. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    Thanks for reminding me of the CVVD topic, Jay. There's so much here it is hard to keep track.

    I wonder if the worldwide chip shortages are affecting shipping products like the Smartstream T-GDi. I read recently (a couple days ago across many different media outlets) that GM is shipping pickup trucks with lower EPA ratings due to the chip shortages.

    edit: here's one link: https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a...mpg-due-to-the-global-computer-chip-shortage/
     
  10. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    Thanks MaxxMPG, I am not very familiar with Hyundai/Kia Suvs so thanks for pointing out the upcoming Tucson HEV. It looks promising and is probably more right for me than the Sorento. I was looking for a Highlander competitor on the Kia side. The Kias look better to me than the Hyundais but I'm OK with the Tucson.
     
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  11. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    Bill, maybe. I read that the huge TSMC out of Taiwan makes 70% of the world's microcontrollers. Semiconductor fab plants use a lot of water (I know. I once worked in one.) TSMC uses something like 250000 tons of water a day and Taiwan is in its third year of drought. Everybody has to cut back.
     
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