Tesla Model Y Preview and (TSLA) Q3 2019 Earnings Up Significantly!

Discussion in 'In the News' started by xcel, Oct 28, 2019.

  1. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    One has to wonder if Toyota (and all the other OEMs) will be utilizing the same "software update exclusion clause" to help their electrified vehicles make it across their 10yr/150,000 mile warranty finish line? --- 10/150 doesn't sound nearly as impressive if this turns out to be the case
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2020
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  2. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    One of the Model S85 owners to file a suite against Tesla over the decrease in reported range had racked up over 130k miles on the car in 5 to 6 years. He likely made heavy use of Supercharging during that time. Instead of updating the pack's buffer zones to extend life, other manufacturers would have just let him kill the battery, and tell him he was SOL, as the car was out of warranty.

    I don't think we'll see any BEV with a 10yr/150k mile warranty. A driving cause for it now is credits under emission regulations, and that doesn't apply to BEVs.
     
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  3. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    What about a BEV with an 8yr/150k mile warranty....do you think we’ll see that?
     
  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    Maybe if someone wants to say they have a better warranty than Tesla, or when Tesla comes out with better batteries.

    The 10yr/150k mile warranty on hybrid batteries was driven by government policy. The manufacturer now gets some type of incentive for certifying cars to it now for emission systems, and the hybrid battery warranty is an outgrowth of that. Before that, it was a requirement in CARB states in order for the car to be eligible for incentives, like the HOV sticker.
     
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  5. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    8 yr/150k miles: That IS the latest model S warranty from Tesla** ;)(link provided a few posts back)

    **except, ....when it isn’t
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2020
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  6. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    Whoops, only saw the 3 and Y. Have the S and X gotten to new battery cells?

    Note that the Tesla's warranty for capacity is 70% minimum. In the case I mentioned earlier, the plaintiff had only lost about 11% of displayed range; he didn't have the actual capacity tested.
     
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  7. litesong

    litesong litesong

    At least, there is one rich person who is taking responsibility for lack of range, against Tesla, instead of foisting their "self-made?" problems onto less rich 2nd & 3rd owners. Possibly, the suit went to court, because the car owner really had been abiding by the rules that theoretically extend lithium-ion battery pack longevity.
     
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  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    With over 20k miles per year, he must have been using Superchargers regularly.
    If the displayed range loss corresponds to capacity, it would within the normal range, and far from when the battery is considered to have 'failed' for BEV use.
    Those buying a BEV, new or used, with a published range that just covers their regular use aren't being prudent.
     
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  9. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member


    This case? ---

    "Finally the situation went to arbitration between the plaintiff and Tesla, but the lawsuit says Tesla lied by saying the Model S was experiencing "normal battery degradation."

    The plaintiff claims technicians incorrectly indicated the car was only suffering from 11% degradation because technicians failed to record the correct numbers, as the car was only charging up to 165/166 miles at 100% battery capacity.

    "Tesla blatantly lied and made the fraudulent representation that the battery was charging up to 165/166 miles at 90%. If it weren’t for Tesla’s fraudulent motives, concealment and deceptive behavior, the true battery degradation of 24%, not 11%, would have been noted by Tesla."

    https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2019/tesla-used-car-warranty-lawsuit.shtml

    add .. AFAIK, ... there isn't a way to have a Tesla battery capacity tested. I think they have all angles covered on this (p.5 p. 6 of the Tesla New Vehicle Limited Warranty) -- I don't actually know about their CPO cars, but I assume it is or will be worded in the same manner -- It will be totally at Tesla's discretion to tell you what state your battery is in.

    https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/tesla-new-vehicle-limited-warranty-en-us.pdf
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2020
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  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

  11. litesong

    litesong litesong

    No, a lot of people are trying to stay away from Superchargers, which are as expensive (& more) than buying gasoline. If & when I purchase an EV, I'll get quite a bit of miles on it, but will work hard to stay away from Superchargers. EV charger companies are jumping into such, because they know the efficiency of EVs. They desire to use that efficiency for their own profit, & take the cost efficiency away from the EV owner.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2020
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  12. litesong

    litesong litesong

    https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2019/tesla-battery-range-loss-lawsuit.shtml
    Oh, now we find out that the owner IS a second owner, not the original rich owner. So, this case may be about a rich new EV owner, who abused the battery pack & sold it to a second owner, who has to put up with the abuse by a new EV rich owner. I understand that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2020
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  13. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    As opposed to those poor Model S owners —-who take such loving care of their cars? —- totally different from those filthy rich model S owners?
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2020
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  14. litesong

    litesong litesong

    There are people who transparently negate the suppression of the poor by saying, "look.... look over here".
     
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  15. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    Let me be painfully transparent——Unless you’re rich, you shouldn’t buy a model S,...new or used.
     
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  16. litesong

    litesong litesong

    The fed gov't makes painfully transparent, that the EV tax credit is only designed for the rich, when buying ANY Electrical Vehicle. Thus, any poor that pay tax, help the rich to buy EVs. I understand that.
     
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  17. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    The federal incentive should have been a rebate, like what most state incentives are. For many models, it is possible to get the benefit of the full tax credit with a lease.

    Superchargers were never intended to be the sole source of electricity for a Tesla; no fast DC charger is. Most charging is done at home, and hopefully, slower, cheaper public chargers for those without home charging in the future. In the beginning, Tesla's got Supercharger access for free, which lead to the tragedy of the commons situation where some owners used just it.

    Yes, people buying an used EV run the risk of repairs due to a previous owner abusing the car. That is true with buying any used car though.

    Some things to keep in mind for charging fees. The charger company does not have other revenue streams like a gas station, which sells fuel for a little above cost, and makes their profit off sugar water, snacks, and cigarettes. Many places only allow utility companies to directly charge for electricity, so charger companies have to charge by the time. So they either cheat themselves by charging too little for EVs with faster charging capabilites, or cheat the EVs with slower. The fee may include parking ones. For Tesla's, comparable ICE cars likely call for premium gas.
     
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  18. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    Bjorn Nyland has a new video out on nerfed supercharging. He's says superchger reduced speeds based on amount of supercharging is (possibly):

    75 kwh pack (model s) Derating starts at 2625 kWh supercharged and reaches maximum at 13,125 kWh supercharged. {roughly8,000 miles and 40,000 miles supercharged}

    (rumor) Model 3 nerfed at 20,000 kWh = 95 kWh max {roughly 60,000 miles supercharged}

    /he also guesses that if you "take good care" (i.e. rarely supercharge) of your battery then you won't see nerfed supercharging until the 5 to 7 year point.

    Youtube:
    Tesla Model 3 with reduced supercharger speed
    //imo, this puts a damper on the idea of taking long road trips in a Tesla -- which was a bit of a shaky proposition to start with.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2020
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  19. litesong

    litesong litesong

    It is a depravity of society that, "...buyer beware", allows richer people to prey on poorer people. Also, there are people who transparently negate the suppression of the poor by saying, "look.... look over there".
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2020
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  20. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    That just feels like a defeatist attitude and a victim mentality. I don't know you so I can only go by what I'm reading in your posts.

    Aside from the 1% that can exercise their wealth in ways that the rest of us cannot understand, we all have varying amounts of resources from which to live our day to day lives. Just optimize based on what you have and worry less about what others have or have not. The challenge is to also think about current and future populations and what *WE* are doing to the world we live in. We can't control what others do; only what we do. So the only plea I have for you is a gentle suggestion to drive less if you can.

    I like the "flight shame" movement that's underway in many parts of the world, particularly in Europe. I wish my sibling over there would listen to the voices around her. She's retired with sufficient wealth to live very comfortably, so she travels internationally. Makes me very sad... :(

    I hope the Model Y sells well, just as the Model 3 has. These two models in the Tesla lineup at least feel like they make fairly efficient use of the precious electricity that the owners will pump into them.
     

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