VW September 2019 Sales down 11.8% With 26,947 Vehicles Sold

Discussion in 'In the News' started by xcel, Oct 4, 2019.

  1. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    Yep. That was the problem with the sport. I didn't like the wheels and tires at all from an economy standpoint. I liked the LX a lot. It was the best bang for the buck and Honda screwed up by offering so many features on the base model. I saw a Civic hatch and VW Sportwagen side by side at the state fair. As it happened, the honda and vw dealers had set up tents right next to each other. Both models will swallow a lot of stuff in the back but I'm getting off topic.

    The engine in the 2019 is the same one as this Jetta, the EA211 1.4 TSI. There are many similar technologies in this engine compared to the Earthdreams 1.5L turbo Civic. Both have an integrated head/exhaust manifold that's liquid cooled to extend the life of the turbocharger. Both have dual coolant circuits with dual thermostats to allow the head/exhaust manifold and block to operate at different temps. Both use very high pressure GDI with fancy firing to achieve a stratified charge. Both employ variable valve timing on intake and exhaust cams. The VW engine differs in that it uses hydraulic cam followers to automatically adjust lash while the civic still uses screw adjusters from the pleistocene era. VW uses an individual cam lobe for each valve where Honda cheaps out a bit with a single lobe and forked cam follower. Honda uses a timing chain that will lengthen over time and VW uses a belt that will need replacing eventually. When? VW claims it will last the life of the engine. haha. but they won't be pinned down as to how long that is.
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  2. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    I convert manufacture 'lifetime' to 150k miles max.
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  3. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    Civic manual valve adjustment -- that's actually a positive in my book. Bullet proof, easy, very few tools required, .. long intervals in-between adjustments. .. or if you drive the car with a light foot, it could be a "not required"

    "maintenance free" is great ... till it ain't

    Volkswagen TDI cam follower failure

    Honda Civic Valve Adjustment

    /this is basically Honda vs VW: The VW drives and feels nicer off the show room floor, .. but 75, 100, 125k miles later, ... the VW ain't the same car it used to be (you may find yourself going/reaching 'deep' to bring it back). And the Honda? ... it just keeps on "ticking".
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
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  4. RedylC94

    RedylC94 Well-Known Member

    I agree. All three of my previous cars had that feature, although none of them was a Honda.
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  5. RedylC94

    RedylC94 Well-Known Member

    Is that a conventional dry belt, or one of the new kind that runs bathed in engine oil?
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  6. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    It's a dry belt. Regarding the valve adjustments with screw adjusters--I've done it once already on my Acura and it's due next year. Definitely not looking forward to it. IMO, no valve adjustments is much better than few valve adjustments--especially with screw adjusters. Screw adjusters are not bullet-proof. The lock nuts can come loose with bad consequences. Mazda, Hyundai and many others use hydraulic lash adjusters with great reliability. But replacing a cam belt is no picnic either. There would have to be an easy way to get at the belt to inspect it for it to come out ahead maintenance wise. Reliability of Honda vs VW? Honda all the way. I've never owned any VW products but there are way too many former VW owners bad-mouthing VWs to ignore.
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  7. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    My gen x civic maintenance minder (software driven, no miles listed) says to check the valves if they're noisy, otherwise it has you go ahead and check the valves at maintenance interval "4" which also includes spark plug change ... which I hope is around 105,000 miles ,.. which was the old number for iridium plugs. I think some older Hondas had it listed for every 30,000 miles (high(er) revving engines (?)). I was not aware that the locking mechanism on the honda screw adjusters was something to worry about, .. as long as you torque it correctly they should be good to go (?)

    /don't know the shop price but wouldn't think more than 2 hours ...
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  8. RedylC94

    RedylC94 Well-Known Member

    I never had one come loose in ~900k miles on three (non-Honda) cars with screw adjusters, and don't recall ever hearing before of that happening to anyone else.
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  9. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    I have no idea why the 2020 VW Jetta is not out yet and the EPA data files still contain nothing on it.

    I do have full pricing which does not indicate anything that would sway a new car buyer to visit a VW dealership unfortunately.

    2020 VW Jetta 1.4L TSI Trim Pricing (MSRP in USD)

    S w/ the 6-speed MT - $18,895
    S w/ the 8-speed AT - $19,695

    SE w/ the 8-speed AT - $22,645

    R-Line w/ the 6-speed MT - $22,695
    R-Line w/ the 8-speed AT - $23,495

    SEL w/ the 8-speed AT - $25,495
    SEL Premium w/ the 8-speed AT - $27,945

    2020 VW Jetta Option Packages

    S Trim Driver-Assistance Package ($450) includes Front Assist, BSM, RCTA, and Heated side mirrors

    SE and R-Line Trim Cold Weather Package ($500) includes Heated wheel, Heated rear seats, Heated wipers and nozzles, and remote start

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  10. litesong

    litesong litesong

    The mag rack had the 2020 Consumer Report New Cars, showing MPG for the Civic EX-T as 21-city & 45-highway. The Civic Si MPG is 23-city & 47-highway. The Civic LX MPG w/2.0L, is 21-city & 45-highway.
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  11. litesong

    litesong litesong

    The mag rack had the 2020 Consumer Report New Cars, shows the Jetta SE w/1.4L turbo: city, 21; highway, 54.
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  12. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Litesong:

    I wish I could rely on CRs efficiency ratings but I cannot. When we had the 2.0L Civic LX, it was an albatross with truly poor efficiency vs the 1.5L DI turbo in the EX. Way off the mark in fact.

    I am hoping that CRs 2020 numbers for the Jetta work out but they are not out yet. It must have been a 2019 they were testing?

    Which brings me around to why are the 2020 Jetta's still MIA right up to the New Year??? That is very strange. 2019s are being offered with $3.5 to $4.5k on the hood here in Southern CA and it is not like the lots are jammed full of them. Jetta sales are doing ok through November with Nov 2019 sales of 8,966 vehicles, down just 2.6 percent from the 9,207 sold in November of 2018. YTD sales of 92,289 are actually up 15 percent vs the 80,473 sold through the same period of 2018.

    I do have a request in for the 2020 Jetta with the 1.4L TSI but VW/Audi just moved their entire PR/Marketing Press fleet to a new vendor here in Southern California and are just beginning the process of restocking the vehicles. I was told by the end of the month they should have the proper inventory including Jetta, Golf, Passat, Tiguan, and Atlas.

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  13. litesong

    litesong litesong

    Might CR have access to 100% ethanol-free gasoline(E0), such as the EPA considers as the proper fuel to run their tests? I've reported often that 87 octane E0 has 8% to 5% better MPG than poorly designated 87 octane 10% ethanol fuel blend (E10). At times I have observed minor running problems with poorly designated 87 octane e10 ethanol fuel blend. Somewhere recently I also posted that one driver noted more than minor running problems with their vehicle while using poorly designated 87 octane E10 ethanol fuel blend. Switching to 87 octane E0 solved his running problems.
    The problems with poorly designated 87 octane ethanol fuel blend E10 has much to do with the octane incompatibility of poorly designated E10 fuel components, as used in 87 octane engines, assigned such by gasoline engineers. With the new pushing by "ethanol in gasoline" advocates of poorly designated 88 octane, 15% ethanol blend fuel(E15), I expect more incompatibilities with 87 octane designated gasoline engines.....as assigned by gasoline engineers.
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2019
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  14. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Litesong:

    It is not E0 and we know plenty about that. Just look at the city numbers. I have driven full sized pickup trucks to higher levels than that in the city.

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  15. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    CR uses whatever the local station by their test facility has; IIRC, it's in Connecticut.

    The EPA test fuel is a precise blend of hydrocarbons made in small batches. Needs to be for proper calculations of emissions and fuel economy. The price is in the tens to over a hundred dollars a gallon.
    E0 sold at gas stations are in a wide range of chemical blends.
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2020
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  16. litesong

    litesong litesong

    No. My use of 87 octane E0 over 10+ years, show a consistency of smoothness, even power & increased MPG that 87 octane E10 cannot touch. Numerous court cases have been settled against E10 ethanol blends, showing occasional huge spreads of excess ethanol-gasoline concoctions, in supposed "low-ethanol in gasoline" contents. trollbait trolls, but with no bait.
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
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  17. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    The terms water and ethanol refer to specific chemical compounds. Gasoline does not.
    "The bulk of a typical gasoline consists of a homogeneous mixture of small, relatively lightweight hydrocarbons with between 4 and 12 carbon atoms per molecule (commonly referred to as C4–C12).[58] It is a mixture of paraffins (alkanes), olefins (alkenes) and cycloalkanes (naphthenes). The usage of the terms paraffin and olefin in place of the standard chemical nomenclature alkane and alkene, respectively, is particular to the oil industry. The actual ratio of molecules in any gasoline depends upon:

    • the oil refinery that makes the gasoline, as not all refineries have the same set of processing units;
    • the crude oil feed used by the refinery;
    • the grade of gasoline (in particular, the octane rating)."
    Wikipedia forgot season as a reason. Winter blend has more butane than summer.

    Gasoline is a mix of different hydrocarbons. For getting down the road, the exact mix makes no difference to a car's engine. For getting repeatable results when testing what comes out the tailpipe, the hydrocarbon mixture going in has to be consistent. You won't get the exact same results using all purpose flour when a recipe calls for bread flour. It is the same for emission testing.

    PS: EPA test gasoline is 93AKI, and is used no matter what the engine calls for. CARB uses 91.
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