2020 Hyundai Sonata Revealed... Remember the Azera?

Discussion in 'In the News' started by xcel, Mar 7, 2019.

  1. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Some updates on the all-new 2020 Hyundai Sonata.

    2020 Hyundai Sonata Exterior

    As mentioned earlier, the Sonata’s overall height has been lowered an inch and will be available with 16-, 17- or 18-inch alloys.

    Like the Azera reference from the OP, the all-new Sonata will incorporate the wide horizontal LED strip that connects each brake light.

    The 2020 Sonata’s coefficient of drag (Cd) is just 0.27 thanks to a flat underfloor covering and a range of body enhancements—including small fins across each taillight.

    [​IMG]

    2020 Hyundai Sonata Interior

    The new slim dashboard features a 12.3” digital instrument cluster that is fully customizable. At the center of the dashboard, a large, 10.25-inch HD screen enables occupants to interact easily with the audio-video and navigation (AVN) functions. This screen can also accommodate a split-screen function that allows audio and navigation to be displayed simultaneously. All Sonata models, except the entry model, include three years of complimentary Blue Link services.

    2020 Hyundai Sonata Drivetrains

    The 2.5L GDI and a 1.6L T-GDI engine are mostly carryovers - .1L larger displacement on the GDI - and both are mated to 8-speed ATs. The 2.5L GDI engine is rated at 191 hp and 181 lb.-ft. of torque while providing an expected combined EPA estimated fuel economy of 33 mpg. This is up significantly from the 28 and 29 mpgUS combined ratings of the current 2.4L offerings!

    The 1.6 T-GDI offers up 180 hp and 195 lb.-ft. of torque with an expected EPA of 31 mpg combined, the same as the current 1.6L GDI-T.

    Unfortunately there was not even a hint of a new or even carry over of the existing hybrid drivetrain for the all-new 2020 Sonata? :(

    2020 Hyundai Sonata Safety

    The all-new 2020 Sonata features Hyundai’s latest SmartSense advanced driver assistance systems (ADAS). A series of sensors and systems s can potentially warn the driver and may take action in the event of a safety incident. The ADAS systems uses the car’s three radar sensors, 12 ultrasonic sensors and five cameras.

    These std. safety features include:
    • Forward Collision-Avoidance Assist
    • Lane Keeping Assist
    • Advanced Smart Cruise Control with Stop and Go
    The optional Highway Driving Assist (HAD) feature assists drivers in maintaining the center of the lane, at an appropriate speed, while keeping a safe distance to the car in front.

    A new feature that I really think deserves more attention given my ongoing 10k+ rideshare experiment is Safe Exit Assist. This system may prevent accidents should a door be opened when another vehicle is approaching from behind. Using the radar, the system may detect approaching vehicles and warn the driver when a door is opened.

    The new Sonata in Limited trim with a pkg. uses four cameras to provide the driver with an enhanced, bird’s-eye view of the car’s exterior, giving the driver confidence when maneuvering into or out of spaces.

    2020 Hyundai Sonata Profile

    [​IMG]

    Wayne
     
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  2. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    On YouTube you see the Sonata 2020 hybrid model which would be 10% more efficient. But no details otherwise. Not sure if that model is coming to the US soon.
     
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  3. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Luke:

    It appears that the Hybrid/PHEV are either delayed like Hyundai has done for each of the two previous all-new Sonata Hybrid models since inception or will be discontinued here in the U.S. due to lack of sales? When you see the 2019 sales results, you can see why Hyundai may be rethinking the Sonata Hybrid for us here in the U.S. Our 17 Sonata Hybrid Limited is still the best car I have ever owned even though I wish it had the new 2018 Camry Hybrids efficiency.

    Here are the Hyundai Hybrid/PHEV/BEV/FCV U.S. 2019 Q1 sales results through March 31 and they were not good.

    2019 Q1 Sales

    Ioniq EV: 199
    Ioniq HEV: 2,690
    Ioniq PHEV: 421

    Sonata HEV: 642
    Sonata PHEV: 61

    Kona EV: 419

    Nexo: 60

    Wayne
     
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  4. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    New CVVD (continuously variable valve duration) tech is going to be included in the Sonata

    "Unlike other systems we've heard about in the past, CVVD works by extending the time that a valve stays open. Specifically, the technology opens the intake valve during the middle and end of the compression stroke, which Hyundai claims reduces compression resistance, when the vehicle is at a constant speed and doesn't need maximum engine output. When a person puts the pedal down, the intake valve closes at the beginning of the cylinder's compression stroke, maximizing the amount of available air and improving performance.
    That duration bit is key to understanding the difference between this and other variable-valve technologies. Variable valve timing adjusts when engine valves open and close during the usual four-stroke cycle. Variable valve lift controls the amount of air entering the cylinder by changing how far the valve opens. CVVD, according to Hyundai, allows for more flexibility based on the current driving style."
    Hyundai's CVVD tech will make its debut in Hyundai's new Smartstream engine family, which will appear in the new Sonata and Venue vehicles to start. Specifically, it will be included in a 1.6-liter turbocharged I4 with 180 horsepower and 195 pound-feet of torque . That motor will make its first appearance in the Hyundai Sonata Turbo, which is slated to come out later this year.

    https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/hyundai-continuously-variable-valve-duration-engine-tech/

     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
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  5. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    Word to the wise,... before buying Hyundai, ... might be best to first research theta engine issues.
     
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  6. MaxxMPG

    MaxxMPG Hasta Lavista AAA-Vee Von't Be Bach

    The 2020 gets a new engine, and I think they'll quietly beef up the bottom end to make sure they don't have a repeat performance of bad press.

    My local contacts familiar with the Sonata are saying the cars coming in with bad engines are neglected. People think a 7500 mile OCI is what it says in the book, but it's 3750 miles for heavy traffic, high or low air temps, lots of hills, extended idling, etc. That's true of any engine - not exclusive to Hyundai. GDI causes fuel dilution of engine oil, and while Hyundai isn't nearly as bad as Honda and Subaru, it is a reality with today's powertrains. These cars are being blown up by low oil level, diluted engine oil, and in some cases sludge (short trips and oil changes every two years).
    Our 2011 Sonata went to heaven a couple of years ago (whacked by a box truck) and I didn't hesitate to replace it with a 2017 with the Theta II. At idle, it ticks/clatters like a diesel - fuel injectors, not valve train - but it's good for 45mpg and it's miles ahead of the old 2011 in refinement and performance.
     
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  7. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    Hmmmm .. Well, .... having just dropped off an '11 Sonata for an engine replacement this afternoon (as well as having just received a second oil analysis on a separate vehicle(extended OCI being the goal)), .. I do have some additional thoughts on the subject. However, ... I'd rather not jinx anything, ... so I'll refrain from further comment until after the Sonata has been collected.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
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  8. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    I have a running joke about my 89 Civic Si with my ex-fiancée Kelly ( she knew the car well )
    I start to say " You know my red Civic...……." and she immediately says "The one in Honda Heaven ?"
    Women are great when you can train them properly , lol.
     
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  9. jcp123

    jcp123 Caliente!

    That low? I have seen what seems like a lot of Sonata hybrids, and even more Kia Neros (I realize Kia isn’t in these numbers).

    I’ve come around on these cars. I think they’re attractive, almost Audi A7. Except for the usual oversized grille. I still think the ass is the most attractive, though.
     
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  10. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    Thanks Wayne for the data. Sad that most hybrids in the U.S. are still not popular. Not sure why since not new tech and price premium is not a concern anymore imo. Probably few people know the advantages. I still prefer PHEV's but those sales are even lower. German carmakers are now offering SUV PHEV's but very inefficient for some reason (besides overpriced). I hope we see more hybrids/PHEV's SUV's that are as efficient as they could be since that's the main market now.
     
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  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    A full hybrid system adds $2000 to $3000 at least to the price of the car. Depending on incentives at the time, it can be more for the buyer. Which is steep in the land of cheap fuel. The Rav4 hybrid premium is low because Toyota masks the cost of the system with the AWD upcharge, the US does not get the FWD model. Toyota is charging 2.5 times the Rav4 hybrid premium for the Corolla one.

    Total plug in sales are lower, but they are growing faster than hybrids did. For some segments, those models are the only ones showing positive growth at this time. This is because they generally offer more than fuel savings. The incentives also are helping, but could also be hurting hybrids. Primes can be had for less than Prii.

    Part of the problem with the German BEV efficiency is that they are AWD with permanent magnet motors. A Model 3 to S comparison shows that a permanent magnet motor is more efficient than an induction one, but this is only true when the motor is being used. On an asymmetrical AWD system, one of those motors is only being used intermittently. The Model 3 uses an induction motor for AWD. When not in use, it just free spins. With a permanent magnet motor, the spinning rotor is being braked by the magnetic fields as it spins.

    Which doesn't explain why that Chinese brand one arriving is such a dog. Perhaps all their BEVs are like the Coda.
     
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  12. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't call gas cheap but people adjust to higher pricing after a while and use that as new relative baseline. In CA it's around $3.50 now which makes it for me currently cheaper to drive on electricity. Most people choose higher trim levels than base so not sure if that's really the motivation to pass on hybrid model if a base model is missing. Comparing RAV4 and Corolla:

    RAV4 AWD: $2K premium + $400-450 savings a year. Recoup 4-5 years
    Corolla base: $3K premium + $500-$600 savings a year. Recoup 5-6 years

    Still think it's not just price especially if you consider people are moving to larger more expensive and less efficient vehicles. Maybe they just don't think about that total cost, not sure. Several carmakers announced over the last few years to add many hybrid models and maybe because of low popularity that didn't completely happen. Honda, VW, Audi all claimed adding large # of hybrid models but not seeing much of that yet.

    I hope you are right about PHEV's but I saw somewhere graph where PHEV's growth was stalling. The numbers are still low so numbers are skewed and tough to create predictions around that.
    Regarding inefficiency I was thinking about Audi/BMW/Volvo PHEV's but forgot about Ford upcoming Escape PHEV. I assume that one will be alright.
    I noticed the other day that the upcoming Q5 PHEV mpgE in Europe is rated 2x higher than Prius Prime. Or compared to Sonata 40% larger battery pack with probably around 20% less range. Maybe more an issue of European carmakers rather. Or maybe their PHEV/EV's are more tuned to be performance PHEV (then again Tesla still has great performance).
     
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  13. BillLin

    BillLin MASS: 2018 Bolt EV and 2017 Prime

    What does that mean numerically? Say the Prime is rated 133 Mpge (I don't know what the rating is in Europe). Are you saying 2x higher is 266 MPGe or something else? Thanks.
     
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  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    I just filled up at $2.839 a gallon here, and Pennsylvania has some of the highest gas taxes in the country. $2.779 is the US average this week. In parts of New England, it is cheaper to run a Prime on gas than home electric.

    New cars, on average, are being kept around 6.5 years. For many buyers, a payback period of 5 to 6 years, or even 4, isn't much of a selling point. I'd estimate a fifth of new cars aren't kept long enough to recoup the cost of a hybrid.

    For many buyers, they are comparing new car fuel economy to what their current car gets. The 2019 Rav4 EPA rating is just slightly better than my 2016 Camry's. The new Camry is a big improvement. So while a hybrid can have great fuel economy, the ICE models have also improved. So just getting new ICE could mean a big improvement to their fuel bill. Which means most are opting for lower purchase price or getting other features they want in the car, such as going bigger.

    Hybrid sales have historically followed gas prices in the US. When fracking lead to gas prices dropping, many cancelled hybrid plans for here. As it is, the introduction of new hybrid models has generally just covered the loss of Prius sales over the past few years. That could change with more SUV options.

    I think BEVs will do better than PHEVs. While PHEVs are seen as providing the best of both worlds, I think their disadvantages will become more common knowledge in time. Those being the loss of usable space to accommodate the ICE drive train and traction battery, the costs of maintaining a little used ICE system. Then majority of those that can charge at home have more than one car.

    European PHEV mpge is useless. Remember the first year the Volt was available, it had a 60something mpge on the window sticker. That number was calculated from driving a set distance before recharging. Since people have different daily trip distances, and access to charging at destinations, and PHEVs have different EV ranges, it quickly became obvious that that Volt mpge rating was meaningless for most people. So the EPA dropped it from the sticker the next year, and just reports EV and ICE efficiency separately. Europe is still reporting that first year Volt figure for all PHEVs.
     
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  15. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    All right. Well, Hyundai is ok in my book. They are taking care of their customers .... above and beyond. I recommend.

    /ref my earlier "theta" post
     
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  16. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    Wasn't aware that west coast is so much more expensive than rest of the country. Well that would explain certainly drop in popularity in areas...

    I have the Sonata PHEV and not seeing those PHEV disadvantages:

    • Only downside is cargo is smaller but something that not true for all PHEV's. E.g. Prius Prime. For SUV's / crossovers PHEV's that's often less of a compromise. But not an issue for me.The bigger problem for me was that Hyundai is not offering a bike rack for any Sonata model. They don't recommend one to attach either
    • Much better range than BEV's as I can make 700 mile trip on a single tank. Smaller trips I don't need any gas
    • I use regular 110V and I have more than 1 outlet at home so I doubt that's a concern for people with 2 PHEV/BEV's. For BEV definitely would need 240V outlet
    • Wear and tear on ICE is lower. Brakes are still great after 4 years. Similar as Hybrids though
    Regarding PHEV mpgE I meant:

    Q5 PHEV: 18.3 kWh / 100 km, 2.3 l / 100 km
    Prius Prime: 10.0 kWh / 100 km, 1.2 l / 100 km

    I'm sure Escape PHEV will do much better. But this article is about Sonata so I'm completely off topic:). I still hope to see more PHEV's from Hyundai.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019 at 4:30 PM
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  17. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    Some PHEVs handle the packaging better than others, but there is a loss somewhere. You can get inventive with battery packaging, but heat from engines and exhaust systems are a bad thing for them. The i3 REx is probably the best done. Engine in the rear means not having to suboptimally place the battery in order to avoid the exhaust. While there is an efficiency penalty, a series hybrid has some flexibility in mounting the engine, and it saves the weight, and space of a transmission. The Prius Prime is the worse, because of a rush job. It loses 7.6cu.ft. of space in comparison to the Prius w/o a spare.

    Space requirements come down to the individual's needs. I think the maintenance costs, not all of which are cash, is what will push more people into BEVs. This will vary between manufacturer. GM and Honda of maintenance monitoring systems that call for oil changes based on how much, and how hard, the engine is used. So a Hybrid and PHEV will call for an oil change in line with how the engine is used. Toyota, and most others, have a set maintenance schedule based on miles driven with a set time limit. Toyota uses a one size approach, requiring an oil change at the same time for their ICE, hybrid, and PHEV models. So a Prime requires the same amount of time and money as a Corolla for an oil change, even if 90% of the Prime's miles are on electric. Then there is engine filters, coolant, and transmission fluid.

    So while wear and tear is lower on the ICE of a PHEV, Toyota(I haven't really looked into others) is telling people it needs the same level of care as a traditional car. Even if you decide to not follow such a manufacturers maintenance schedule, some things will need to be done as there is a time factor to component life. Two years is the longest the Volt will go between oil changes, and belts and seals age. I realize the cash cost for these things are minor, but there is the time hassle, which can be a bigger cost.

    When was the last time you drove 600 miles straight with no stops at all? But, hey, a PHEV can be a great compromise for a single car. The thing is that the most households in the US have more than one car, and there is a large over lap of those households with ones that accommodate home charging. I think people will start with a PHEV, but moving to a BEV after living with it. The other cars in the household could be a PHEV, but they could be as easily as not. At a certain point, the population will stop with the PHEV starting step.

    My commute is 60 miles round trip. I figure I need at least 90 miles of range in a BEV to account for errands, detours, and winter. I assumed a Level 2 charger was going to be a must, but then it occurred to me that I could get by with a Level 1 if the BEV had 200+ miles of range. 8 hours of charging will net at least 30 miles, and it will likely get more time on most days, so 40 miles regained a day on the work week is more likely. Then 2 days to fully charge up on the weekend. Limiting for a single car household, but I'd rather have a BEV plus some type of ICE car, than a single PHEV. My annual miles are over 15k, so I can then split that between the two, and the less driven ICE car can be something more suited for long trips and hauling stuff.

    Audi(and BMW and Mercedes and Volvo) are mostly using PHEVs to boost performance. They are power hybrids which get another boost from the grid.
     
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  18. BillLin

    BillLin MASS: 2018 Bolt EV and 2017 Prime

    Thanks, Luke. Since the lower the l/100km numbers are, the better the fuel economy, I'm okay with that! :)
     
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  19. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    I did few 700 mi trips to Arizona and only had to refuel once for that trip. But that extra range is really convenient also when driving to national parks where there are less gas stations. I only have 1 car but yes you're right I'm rather the exception and with 2 cars range is less of an issue. I'd still prefer to have all benefits in 1 car with good range and price:).

    For mass adoption of BEV's we really need more chargers and especially super fast chargers. Here in the US that will take a long time to get decent coverage everywhere (beyond Tesla network). Also that price premium is even higher at the moment. But BEV's are enjoying decent growth.

    I didn't see anything on Sonata PHEV so probably at best we'll only see the hybrid here:-(. But for hybrids they won't have an edge over the Accord/Camry hybrids in terms of efficiency.
     
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  20. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    My future car needs/wants are efficiency are plug, efficiency, comfort, space for hauling and/or tow rating, and AWD as a maybe. The Model Y and and Aviator PHEV will probably to only one car solution in the near future for that list. Either will likely be more than I wish to spend for one car, and still require compromises somewhere. I figure two cars would be a better fit. An Ioniq Electric or Bolt, though a Solo or Sondors is really all I need, for the daily driver where the majority of miles will be, and I need the efficiency, and a used XC70 or Outback for all the rest. Considering the miles for 'all the rest', I can settle for a V6 pick up.

    Back when the Leaf was practically the only choice, about 40% of US households could work with a BEV. Current choices increase that potential pool. So while we'll need public chargers to BEVs to replace the ICE car, the potential market for them is big enough to support growth while giving time to expand the charging network. The price premium is dropping. The total ownership costs of a BEV in Europe may reach parity with an ICE car this year.
     
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