2019 Prius Gaining Traction Just Weeks From Today

Discussion in 'In the News' started by xcel, Nov 9, 2018.

  1. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    ... if I lived in Colorado..

    This might cut into the Subaru market.

    Looks cool with the ski racks, .. but the advantage of the hatchback design is you can easily put your skis and board inside (as long as there's only 2 or 3 going) .. and retain the premium highway mpg.
     
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  2. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi RedylC94:
    It crawled up the slope with AWD. The FWD could not make it up the slope.
    Regarding torque at various speeds, few ever post that. It is a low power motor with a good deal of torque from 0 RPM. It would rip your arm off if you had your arm wrapped around the rear wheel at launch. It also provides enough traction to get the Prius AWD-e moving in snow up a 6 degree slope when the FWD variant just spins.

    IHTHs?

    Wayne
     
  3. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    We will be receiving a 52/48 mpgUS city/highway rated 2020 Toyota Prius AWD-e in XLE trim beginning on January 24th. From the first drive in Kohler, WI, it does not have the std. Prius' blow out capability but it does offer the highest efficiency and AWD capability outside of a full electric here in the U.S. today.

    As a preview and in comparison, to the std. Prius, a few of the AWD-e changes look like this.

    For 2020, all Prius' offer a new Toyota Audio 7-in. Touch-Screen Display on L Eco, LE and XLE, new Apple CarPlay and Amazon Alexa Compatibility standard on all trims and newly standard Safety Connect across the lineup.

    The AWD-e uses a much heavier Nickel-Metal Hydride (NiMH) traction battery vs the L Eco through Limited Prius' Li-Ion.

    The AWD-e LE and XLE turning diameter is 33.5 ft. whereas the std. Prius LE and XLE has a 33.5 and 35.4 ft. turning diameter. The larger std. Prius XLE's 17" tires probably account for the larger turning diameter?

    The AWD-e is .2" taller than the std. Prius' with an additional .2" ground clearance.

    The AWD-e LE and XLE weighs approximately 170 lbs. more than the std Prius' LE and XLE trims.

    The AWD-e's fuel tank size is just 10.6 gallons, .7 gallons less than the std. Prius 11.3 gallons.

    Blind Spot Monitor (BSM) with Rear Cross Traffic Alert (RCTA) is standard on all the Prius' other than the lowest L Eco trim. The Prime is missing these basic safety functions on the LE and XLE trims for some unknown reason???

    2020 Toyota Prius AWD-e

    [​IMG]

    Wayne
     
  4. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    How did I ever manage to live so long, when I've driven hundreds of thousands of mile without BSM or RCTA ?
    Most of those miles didn't have ABS or airbags. But at least I was never injured by a faulty airbag, either.

    I'm looking forward to your report on the Prius AWD-e.
     
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  5. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    I think the ultimate winter vehicle ( for Edwin ) could be the Impreza 5-door(CVT or manual). They don't want to call it
    a hatchback , or a ( gasp) station wagon , but I will go out on a limb and say STATION WAGON.
    And that's a good thing.
     
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  6. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    The 2020 Prius AWD-e has finally reached our hands for a week long review! I do not have a Monroney but it is equipped like this:

    2020 Prius XLE AWD-e: $29,375

    Supersonic Red exterior color: ($425)
    Advanced Technology Package incl. HUD and Adaptive Front Headlamps ($800)
    15" 10-Spoke Alloys ($899)
    Carpeted Front, Rear, and Cargo Mats, Prius applique on top rear bumper fascia, and cargo net ($377)
    Universal Tablet Holder ($99)

    D&H: $955

    MSRP: $32,930

    The base MSRP of the 2020 Toyota Prius XLE AWD-e is $1,000 more than the similarly equipped 2020 Toyota Prius XLE at $28,375.

    While it is winter, winter in Southern CA is not quite the winter one would think of when it comes to needing an AWD anything. So yes, it was nice as it usually is. The drive had a temp range from 64 to 70 and back to 65 degrees F and the AWD-e still excelled. ;)

    In any case, from the short lead, this is why the 2020 Toyota Prius AWD-e exists. A 6 percent snow covered and rutted grade and it climbed as if on pavement. The FWD trims could not perform this as easily without a runup to build momentum.


    For our drive, I wanted to get a feel for the AWD-e's efficiency hit vs the std. Prius. This includes the Prius Eco at 58/53 mpg city/highway (and LE despite not being Monroney labeled the same), Prius XLE and Limited at 54/50 mpg city/highway vs the 2020 Prius AWD-e at 52/48 mpg city/highway.

    I swapped into it near Toyota's former HQ in Torrance, CA. Time for the top off and displays reset.

    2020 Toyota AWD-e Calibration Drive

    [​IMG]
    Initial topoff at a Shell in Torrance, CA with the aFCD, Trip A, and Garmin reset.

    [​IMG]
    Final topoff at a Shell in Carlsbad, CA.

    [​IMG]
    81.6 mpg over 79.6 miles indicated, 81.4 miles on .988 gallons = 82.4 mpg actual.​

    An honest to goodness but suspect positive aFCD offset of 1.0098 or 1.01!

    I was actually surprised to see an aFCD positive offset on a Prius as our experience has shown only the topoff to topoff refuels in prototypes have provided a positive or neutral offset. When we get our hands on the consumer model(s), the offsets go negative up to a maximum of 9 percent as we experienced from an Eco trim during a triple digit result while driving from the IL/WI border to Detroit a few years back.

    While I have some confidence in the measured result, I am currently in the process of consuming an entire tank and refuel just to make sure this was not an anomaly.

    [​IMG]

    I have almost 500-miles on the 2020 Toyota Prius AWD-e since that second measured topoff and there is still just under a quarter of a tank to go before I finally refuel for a full measured tank. It is parked with a 65.8 mpg indication and I do not expect that to change much between now and maybe tomorrow when I complete the final, final.

    [​IMG]

    An efficiency impression. The 2020 Prius AWD-e and its 52/48 mpg city/highway is as much as 15+ percent off the std. L Eco (58/53 mpg city/highway) or LE trimmed Prius on the highway as they would and have achieved triple digits on this same section of Interstate albeit with a bit heavier traffic. The Prius AWD-e’s 50 mpg combined rating is 11 percent lower than the 56 mpg combined ratings of the L Eco and imho, the LE. That feels close but maybe a little short. When comparing highway results, the AWD-e’s 48 mpg is 9 percent lower than the L Eco’s 53 mpg rating. I think the highway efficiency shortfall may be a bit higher than that.

    I will perform the steady states with the AWD-e either tonight or tomorrow night.

    Wayne
     
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  7. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Pouring on miles to consume a topped off tank…

    First stop, how about the Prius AWD-e visit the Proud Bird Restaurant in Los Angeles, CA.

    2020 Toyota Prius AWD-e at the Proud Bird

    [​IMG]
    A US Navy Carrier based Douglas SBD Dauntless dive bomber as a backdrop.​

    The US Navy Douglas SBD Dauntless dive bomber was equipped with two forward-firing .50 in M2 Browning machine guns and either one or two rear flexible-mount .30 in AN/M2 machine guns out back. They were effective against lightly built Japanese fighters but their 255-mph top speed made them targets against the much faster foes.

    The SBD's most important contribution to the American war effort came during the Battle of Midway in early June 1942. Four squadrons of Navy SBD dive bombers attacked and sank or fatally damaged all four Japanese fleet carriers, disabling three of them in the span of just six minutes (Akagi, Kaga, Soryu) and, later in the day, Hiryu. They also caught two straggling heavy cruisers of the Midway bombardment group of four, heavily damaging them, with Mikuma eventually sinking.

    It was the turning point of the War in the Pacific and from that point forward, America was on the offense instead of defense.

    Wayne
     
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  8. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    An early morning and overcast visit to the San Diego Harbor...

    2020 Toyota Prius AWD-e

    [​IMG]

    San Diego, California, on the coast of the Pacific Ocean, is approximately 120 miles south of LA. With an estimated population of almost 1.5 million, San Diego is the eighth-largest city in the United States and second-largest in California.

    The city is known for its mild year-round climate, natural deep-water harbor, extensive beaches, long association with the United States Navy, and recent emergence as a healthcare and biotechnology development center.

    San Diego is "the birthplace of California". It was the first site visited by Europeans on what is now the West Coast of the U.S. Upon landing in San Diego Bay in 1542, Juan Rodríguez Cabrillo claimed the area for Spain. The Presidio and Mission San Diego de Alcalá were founded in 1769 and formed the first European settlement in California. In 1821, San Diego became part of the Mexican Empire, which reformed as the First Mexican Republic just two years later. California became part of the United States in 1848 following the Mexican–American War and was admitted to the union as a state in 1850.

    Today, San Diego is known for its beautiful beaches, parks and as mentioned above, temperate year-round climate. The city’s Balboa Park is the site of the world-renowned San Diego Zoo, as well as numerous art galleries, artist studios, museums and gardens. A deep harbor is home to a large active naval fleet, with the USS Midway, an aircraft-carrier-turned-museum, open to the public.

    Wayne
     
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  9. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    And on a more practical experience, what does $60 worth of Groceries in preps for the Superbowl look like?

    2020 Toyota Prius AWD-e

    [​IMG]
    24.6 cu. ft. of cargo volume.​

    The 24.6 cu. ft. of cargo volume is the same as the std. Prius LE with the mini-spare but unlike the LE trim, does not include a mini-spare but the same Tire inflator kit that comes with the L Eco, XLE, and Limited trim Prius’ with 27.4 cu. ft. of cargo volume. There is a small 2.8 cu. ft. penalty for the AWD-e hardware.

    Wayne
     
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  10. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    Good picture of the Prius logo on the bumper top surface protector. :)
     
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  11. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Bill:

    Included and cropped in for effect. ;)

    Wayne
     
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  12. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    On the safety front, the 2020 Toyota Prius has performed well on both the National Highway Traffic and Safety Administration (NHTSA) and Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS).

    2020 Toyota Prius NHTSA Crash Test Safety Ratings

    [​IMG]

    The 2020 Toyota Prius AWD-e achieved a 5-star safety rating on the NHTSA.

    Moving to the IIHS, the 2020 Toyota Prius AWD-e has not and may not ever be tested. The std. Prius and Prius Prime have and both did ok in that agencies crash tests. Neither were awarded the agency’s coveted top score, the IIHS Top Safety Pick+ rating. It was the front passenger side small overlap with an average rating that took both off the Plus ratings list.

    2020 Toyota Prius IIHS Crash Test Safety Ratings

    [​IMG]


    2016 Toyota Prius Small Overlap Crash test.​

    Moving into the Passive, Active, and Advanced standard Active safety HW, the Prius AWD-e just like the std. Prius includes the following:

    Passive safety: Front, side, and side curtains plus passenger side seat cushion and drivers knee airbags.

    Active safety: Vehicle Stability Control (VSC), Traction Control (TC), Antilock Brake System (ABS), Electronic Brakeforce Distribution (EBD), Brake Assist (BA), and Smart Stop Technology (SST).

    Advanced Active Safety includes a PreCollision System with Pedestrian Detection and auto braking (PCS w/PD), Lane Departure Alert with Steering Assist (LDA w/SA), Automatic High Beams (AHB), Full Speed Range Dynamic Radar Cruise Control (DRCC), Blind Spot Monitor (BSM) with Rear CrossTraffic Alert (RCTA), and Intelligent Clearance Sonar (ICS) with Intelligent Parking Assist (IPA),

    The PreCollision warning system worked as expected with RCC on and in heavy high-speed traffic quickly slowing to a stop with an audible warning and display. I have not and hope not to test the auto braking.

    The Lane Departure Alert with Steering Assist system is just adequate. It will not warn of the impending lane cross until you are almost on the line and only a small percentage of the time detects and then nudges the wheel to bring you back to center. Nissan’s and Hyundai’s system are better at holding the vehicle in the center of the lane and have a much gentler interaction with the driver to keep it there.

    Automatic High Beams (AHB) included with all Toyota’s is pretty darn good. Fast changes well before either headlamps are close or coming up on the rear of another vehicle seeing only the taillamps. The only time the has trouble is high-beam reflections off of street or highway signs in which it reverts to low beams when not really necessary.

    The 4th gen Prius’ Full Speed Range Dynamic Radar Cruise Control (DRCC) is still the best in the business. Long distance ahead detection allows for much lower G force decelerations when a slowing vehicle is ahead and the low G acceleration after the vehicle has moved out of the lane or accelerated away. Even when a vehicle cuts into your lane with no other vehicle ahead, if the impinging vehicle is moving faster, the system will not slam on the brakes but transition either to a smooth glide and maintain speed while allowing the accelerating vehicle to continue accelerating away. Very smart. If there was an issue, it is an issue with all of the systems from all OEMs in that their cone of detection is not as wide as it should be.

    The Blind Spot Monitor (BSM) is just ok. It detects and will visually warn with a flashing yellow indicator in the mirror and an audible warning if you have your signal on while changing lanes and a vehicle is there. However, others OEMs systems detect vehicles from further behind and if they are accelerating into your path from further back, they will provide the warnings with more opportunity to heed.

    Rear CrossTraffic Alert (RCTA) has worked as expected in parking lots but I have not lived with it long enough to say it is better or worse than anyone other OEM I have experienced. It works great and I am glad it is included on all 2020 AWDe and std. Prius’ other than the L Eco. Except for the Prius Prime where the LE and XLE for some unknown reason it is missing? I digress as we will hopefully drive the 2020 Prius Prime is a few weeks.

    The Intelligent Clearance Sonar (ICS) system is excellent. Especially if you have a tight garage or in a heavily congested city or suburban area. Anytime you park in a lot, those sensors, out front or out back, can detect you running over something you cannot see and or tapping something you do not want to.

    Wayne
     
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  13. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    And some very disconcerting news about the 2020 Toyota Prius of all types.

    I was looking at inventory at a few of the larger dealerships in LA, OC, and San Diego counties and there are quite literally no Prius' on the lots! I am talking levels that are not even worth a dealership visit if they have any at all. Once I saw this, I pulled the entire San Diego Toyota dealerships Prius inventory and it looks like this.

    2017 Toyota Prius Prime

    [​IMG]

    San Diego Toyota Dealerships Prius inventory

    Toyota Carlsbad - 3 Prius' and 5 Prius Primes
    Toyota Escondido - 0 Prius' and 8 Prius Primes
    Toyota of Poway - 0 Prius' and 4 Prius Primes
    Mossy Toyota - 4 Prius' and 8 Prius Primes
    Norm Reeves Toyota - 3 Prius' and 1 Prius Prime
    Kearny Mesa Toyota - 3 Prius' and 3 Prius Primes
    Toyota of El Cajon - 0 Prius' and 3 Prius Primes
    Larry Miller Toyota - 0 Prius' and 0 Prius Primes
    Frank Toyota - 0 Prius' and 1 Prius Prime
    Toyota Chula Vista - 0 Prius' and 2 Prius Primes

    1/27/2020 San Diego Toyota Dealership Prius Inventory Totals - 13 Prius' and 35 Prius Primes.

    This is a county of some 3.5 million people in Southern California. In what used to be the land of the Prius. Either past and current Prius buyers are looking at the RAV4 Hybrid or I would guess considering a Tesla model 3 to fill their drives?

    Could we be seeing the beginning of the end of the Prius as we know it? :( :( :(

    I will have more on the terrible infotainment system included with the Prius lineup which could explain some of the lackadaisical, no, a freefall in sales volumes.

    Wayne
     
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  14. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    The RAV4 Hybrid is the new Prius. Sad but true. I should buy a Prius Prime before they kill it.
     
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  15. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    The Prius sold less than 70k last year in the US, and that includes the Prime. Sales have been in a slow decline for a several years now. With hybrid versions of all the Corollas being made, there really isn't a place in the line up for the non-plug Prius.
     
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  16. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Trollbait:

    Remember when 181,221 Prius' were sold back in 2007 vs 77,129 Prius liftbacks AND Prime's in 2019? Toyota 2019 Sales.

    I can all but guarantee 2020 is going to be a disaster year for the Prius moniker if demand is so slow that dealerships are not stocking them. :(

    The 2020 RAV4 HEV and Prime will make up for a lot of the volume loss while supplying more profitability.

    Wayne
     
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  17. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    Toyota's 2019 hybrid sales for North America don't reach the best year the Prius Family had in the US. The Rav4 hybrid is a big reason they did so well, but it really is a no brainer to get for the price if you want AWD. The Camry and Corolla are still $3000+ for the hybrid.
     
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  18. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    I am sure glad I ran this tank down to come up with an accurate aFCD offset and it is negative as suspected.

    2020 Toyota Prius AWD-e

    [​IMG]
    66.5 mpg and 544.1 miles indicated - 556.4 miles actual on 8.932 gallons = 62.3 mpg.​

    The aFCD offset is .937 or negative 6.3 percent. :(

    At least we will have accurate steady states data if the SoC swing is not to harsh at lower speeds. I will complete those tonight.

    Wayne
     
  19. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    I just completed the steady states and it appears the 2020 Toyota Prius AWD-e will be the first Prius we have driven that did not break the 67.5 mph EPA highway crossover. By just a touch possibly and I will know more once I build the graph. I suspect the un-aero 10-spoke chromed alloy wheels may have something to do with it but that would be a guess on my part. Temps from 52 to 55 degrees and winds were calm during the data collection.

    2020 Toyota Prius AWD-e

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Just moments prior to Steady State data collection last night and into this morning.​

    Audio quality for a base radio is so much better than the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gen with clear highs but does lack any low-end punch. The infotainment system however is an unmitigated disaster. More on the tomorrow.

    Wayne
     
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  20. PaleMelanesian

    PaleMelanesian Beat the System Staff Member

    Perhaps it would sell better if it wasn't hideous.
     
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