Ford and the "No More Cars" Statement(s) – Q1 2018 Earnings Up 9 Percent

Discussion in 'In the News' started by xcel, Apr 26, 2018.

  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    IIRC, the old Escape hybrid had a 1000 pound tow rating.
     
  2. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    "Towing is rated for a maximum of 3,500 pounds for the 2.0-liter EcoBoost, 2,000 pounds with the 1.5-liter and 1,500 pounds for both hybridized versions."

    https://www.autoblog.com/2019/04/02/2020-ford-escape-redesign-revealed-hybrid-phev/

    /So, .. I'm impressed .. maybe. They are going to let the hybrid and PHEV tow without voiding the warranty. Of course, that might just be for the Europe versions.

    // and the price? .. I think they are going to have to compete with the RAV4 hybrid which is $27,700. So I would guess $28,000-ish for the hybrid base model, and maybe around $33,500-ish for the PHEV ... ?

    ///edit, ... I'm probably low on the PHEV price guess here, ... the PHEV is more likely to be upper 30's,
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
  3. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    .. so this is probably Ford's "car" in the "no more cars" world. I guess if you can get 30mpg, 40mpg, ... 78** mpge or whatever, then most would just as soon drive a CUV as a sedan. .. (?) --- but it's going to come at a price.

    /**If you do a lot of highway traveling, .. I think you want the sedan form ,.. no matter what the drivetrain. Fuelly has the recent 29 mpg hwy escapes only showing about 22 mpg. High profile and high ground clearance just doesn't work for highway mpg.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2019
  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    The old Escape hybrid was allowed to tow in the US, and the Rav4h is rated for 1750 pounds here.

    The new Escape design is slipperier and more car like. Those wanting an actual small SUV will get the 'baby Bronco' that is built on the same platform.
     
  5. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    Amen. It's really hard to beat a Civic or Jetta or Elantra SEDAN in highway efficiency.
     
  6. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    Sadly , most North Americans think an Escape/RAV4/Rogue ……….. IS a car.

    My buddy refers to his RAM pickup as his "car".
     
  7. litesong

    litesong litesong

    Normally in the late 70's, I could featherfoot the high 120,000 mile Toyota Tercel to as high as 40MPG. We planned a trip across the country to visit my friend's mother. In the last day before our trip, my friend's mom had some health problems. We decided to get going. Way over my normal driving speed, averaging 72MPH, at times less climbing in the mountains, other times more, one day I drove 920 miles. We arrived a day early. Mom was OK. I think she had become anxious, waiting for her daughter & had some problems. But, seeing her daughter, she recovered well & we had a happy reunion. Anyhow, the 40MPG high Tercel, only averaged 30MPG on the quick trip. Maybe the MPG loss wouldn't have been as great if the transmission would have delivered fewer rpms at speed.
     
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  8. litesong

    litesong litesong

    Our two 2013 auto & 2016 manual Elantras only have 130 lbs-ft of torque. Now, they are both EPA rated ~ the same MPG & that is true on the freeway. Despite the manual geared 6%(?) lower than the auto, the manual gets better MPG at lower speeds. Plus manual acceleration performance is better, as well as better performing in the mountains. You can manually switch gears with the auto Elantra, but it just isn't the same as the manual Elantra. Despite the hoopla that autos have narrowed the gap to manuals, our Elantras prove that auto & manual equivalence is just brand propaganda.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2019
    BillLin likes this.
  9. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    Looks like ford 'will' have some cars to sell. Electric cars. ... eventually. ... courtesy of VW.

    "A confidential source told Reuters last week that Ford and Volkswagen have reached an agreement in principal that would allow the American automaker to share VW’s new MEB electric car platform. The arrangement is expected to be formalized at a Volkswagen board of directors meeting on July 11."

    Ford To Share Volkswagens’s MEB Electric Vehicle Platform
    https://cleantechnica.com/2019/07/0...o-share-volkswagen-meb-electric-car-platform/


    /I'm still theorizing there must be a 'next gen' battery just about ready to go for all the moving and shaking that's going on.
     
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  10. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    Check my math:

    The following video says VW will need 300 GWh of batteries in 2025 and 600 GWh of batteries in 2030 (europe and asia combined).(2:23/5:34 in the video)
    https://www.autonews.com/video/first-shift-bmw-ceo-krueger-stepping-down

    In 2018 VW sold 16.244 million passenger vehicles world wide.
    If we figure 50 kWh per BEV, then 1 GWh is good for 20,000 vehicles (1,000,000/50 = 20,000) ,.. so
    - VW will produce 6 million BEVs in 2025 (37% of the 2018 total)
    - VW will produce 12 million BEVs in 2030 (74% of the 2018 total)

    ---- so in about 10 years time, .. nearly everything (74%) on the VW lot will be a BEV?
    HUH?

    https://www.best-selling-cars.com/brands/2018-international-volkswagen-global-sales/

    /add,... so once again, .. I think 'next gen' batteries (and the elimination of the need for cooling systems) must be around the corner,.. VW is probably betting on the new tech to launch these huge BEV plans.
    // one could also guess this is why Toyota has had a sudden 'about face' on EVs, and perhaps why the slow moving CEO at BMW is being replaced.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
  11. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    So that is 4 of the top 5 auto manufacturers with serious EV plans:...
    1. Toyota -- yes
    2. VW -- yes
    3. Hyundai/Kia -- yes
    4. GM -- not really
    5. Ford -- yes

    /#1 and #2 are both talking solid state batteries in the not too distant future
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
  12. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    VW sez: solid state batteries — mid 2020’s

    “From 2021 Volkswagen will use electric battery cells using a composition of nickel, manganese and cobalt in a ratio of 8:1:1, Sommer said, adding that one supplier was still using a ratio of 6:2:2.

    For the Chinese market, Volkswagen sees potential for using lithium iron based batteries, known as LFP. These have lower energy density than NMC cells, but Chinese drivers tend to stay within large cities and do not travel long distances by car.

    "The necessity for a long operating range is less important in China," Sommer said.

    Solid state electric battery cells will replace NMC cells and become mass production ready in the second half of the 2020's, Sommer said.

    "Solid state cells can be made in existing battery factories. It will be the same producers and the same factories where solid state batteries are made," Sommer said adding that round 60 percent of the tools can be reused for next generation cells.”

    https://www.autonews.com/automakers...pen-alliances-battery-suppliers-electric-push
     
  13. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    The FT article --

    Solid state won't come around for another 10 years.
    So what is changing is the price (and I assume the volume) on the current battery tech -- near $100/kWh by next year.

    New battery tech faces a long road to mass adoption
    https://www.ft.com/content/3324aae6-7d63-11e9-8b5c-33d0560f039c


    “We don’t expect solid-state batteries to make a meaningful contribution to the global EV market until the late 2020s at the earliest,” Logan Goldie-Scot, head of energy storage at analyst group BloombergNEF, wrote in a recent article. Research from the University of California and TU Munich in Germany predicts the cost of lithium-ion batteries could fall from $10,000 per kWh in the early 1990s to just $100 per kWh by next year. The US Department of Energy calculates that once battery costs fall below $125 per kWh, owning and operating an electric car will be cheaper than a petrol-powered car in most parts of the world."
     
  14. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    But when all cars are electric , what will be the price/cost of generating all that electricity ?

    That said , I still want an electric car. I have one already , but it's very small and can only go where there's a slot in the road.
     
  15. brian.ingram

    brian.ingram Sacrifice more than golf!

    It's not about saving money - an electric grid can be electrified from a diverse source of energy (wind, solar, nuclear, hydro, carbon, etc.).

    Of course, this is all for naught if we do not invest in updating and giving greater commitment to maintaining our grid.
     
  16. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    Short answer: more/more money -- more fossil fuels. (i.e. coal in China, Natural gas in the U.S. and europe)

    /you said "slot"

    Germany has one of the most 'updated' grids around -- to the tune of 35c/kwh for average residential. Used as transportation fuel -- that's more expensive than gasoline in the U.S.

    "There are ramifications involved in Germany’s contemporary renewable energy program, including an instable electric grid, the burden being placed upon German households by increased costs for electricity, and the need for secure back-up power that is affordable and reliable. Currently, utility companies within the country are receiving payments from the grid as a measure of stabilizing a network that has been disrupted due to surges and falls in contributions from solar and wind power sources. Coal is being utilized in a heftier manner in order to back-up the renewable technologies (and their intermittent nature) while delivering a reliable base load of power, although at the risk of increasing emissions of carbon dioxide. The result has been German residents having to pay feed-in-tariffs in addition to high utility costs as a measure of subsidizing the renewable energy technologies."
    https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/electricity-rates-around-the-world.html

    /so yah, .. It's not about saving money.
    //Remember back when we were constantly told that the higher up front EV cost would be compensated over time with cheaper fuel?? ( I might have repeated that one a few times, myself). (not to mention the (more obvious now) high cost of quick charging)
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
  17. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    But hey, ... it's not like there's not an answer out there. Just might not be what big corporate or big couch potato is looking for....


    New UK study shows e-bikes beat electric cars
    New study suggests electric bicycles are much better than electric cars for cities

    much improved public transportation with much improved biking/walking paths* --- might be better than banging head against wall?

    *add in a 58 mpg prius for good measure ,.. and you're all set
     
  18. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    Try riding your e-bike ( Not you , Neil ) in downtown Chicago in January.
    An electric car with seat heaters ( and windshield ! ) is more feasible.
     
  19. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    So , .. here's some "people shots" in downtown Copenhagen, ... notice any 'mobility' (hint: waistline) differences between them and the folks in Chicago?



     
  20. jcp123

    jcp123 Caliente!

    Relying on EVs is a bad move, IMHO. Our charging infrastructure is bad, not just from the standpoint of lack of chargers, but also from the fact that a lot of our grid can’t deliver the current to charge to the myriad places where charging would be ideal.

    Maybe the play is to lead a need to upgrade that. But boy, is that a gamble.

    For now, an EV is basically for someone who owns a house, where they can install a better charger, or someone who can charge at work. Both are demands of an upper-middle-class clientele which works against what ICE-antagonists have sought.

    It’s literally going to take an act of Congress for EVs to be practical, unless we have a range-extender EV type cars, a la Volt or I3.

    I can’t play the hero here, as I thought diesel would be our interim champion and savior, but I did think the range-extender-EV was a better solution than any Prius. So maybe I have a chance of being a lesser Nostradamus?
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019

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